Guest October 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Otis11 said: shockingly, they all support Hong Kong. They are reading the wrong local papers then, clearly not the ones read by others here. They're reading the ones that USA pay for no doubt. The photoshopped ones. Sounds like they have their own views, in 2019 no less. Crazy times. 1984 not yet in full force clearly. Edited October 10, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otis11 + 551 ZP October 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, DayTrader said: They are reading the wrong local papers then, clearly not the ones read by others here. They're reading the ones that USA pay for no doubt. The photoshopped ones. Sounds like they have their own views, in 2019 no less. Crazy times. 1984 not yet in full force clearly. You have to talk to them when they happen to be out of the country. They're not going to say or type anything like that - even on their facebook PMs (which avoid most censorship). Risk of getting caught and affecting social score too high, benefit of speaking too low. But have them over for dinner and it's an interesting story... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 10, 2019 Haha yep was joking. So what you saying? When Big Bro not listening in you hear their real views? Interesting ... Certainly contradicts some of the troll nonsense. Who'd have thought that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Otis11 + 551 ZP October 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, DayTrader said: Haha yep was joking. So what you saying? When Big Bro not listening in you hear their real views? Interesting ... Certainly contradicts some of the troll nonsense. Who'd have thought that? Sad part is it's close enough to reality I could honestly mistake the sarcasm... Did anyone tell the CCP 1984 is a warning, not a goal? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 10, 2019 (edited) On 10/10/2019 at 11:29 PM, Otis11 said: Did anyone tell the CCP 1984 is a warning, not a goal? How about the irony that 1984 was written in the year NK was formed? As Christopher Hitchens said, ''It's almost as if someone got a copy and handed it to Kim Il Sung and said 'we could do this' ....'' Edited October 14, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff October 11, 2019 7 hours ago, ronwagn said: The horrors in China have only gotten worse. China Stories https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wb2YoQGpSWTz32ljsiA_ey6FLVqc2Dpe7Fnpiqn9lBs/edit Thanks for sharing your list of "stories". We can see clearly now how westerners have formed their views. It is certainly an avalanche of propaganda. All of it comes from western media (repeatedly and daily exposed to be liars), so it must all be true, right? And nothing occurs in the west (such as murder of protesters, the untold millions slaughtered in "wars of freedom", and much more), right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff October 11, 2019 9 hours ago, Rob Plant said: frankfurter Please read all of the plethora of comments that have been made and in many cases substantiated by numerous different posters on this thread and then read your replies. The problem is you just CANNOT get it can you? and that is why I believe you are brainwashed, its not an insult, its a shame your mind is so closed to the truth. And yes I've been to China many times and the people are (in the most part) fantastic. However all of the ones I have spoken to agree there arent the freedoms of expression that we in the West enjoy. so hopefully that fits your theory of you need to be there on the ground and experience it first hand argument. Also the corruption to gain favour even in local government is widespread and a constant source of frustration to the average factory owner/worker. I wont be replying to any of your further posts (which no doubt will come) as I wont fall into the trap DT has. Cheers and enjoy your life Well, when you have a truth, supported by evidence, let's talk. Read the BBC journalist; in black and white he admits he was wrong - in other words he lied. If you cannot accept reality, why do you criticise others who do? You raise points not raised prior. Corruption in China: yes, definitely. Where and when did I write China has none? Chinese citizens do not have speech freedoms exactly like those in the west: this is true. Where and when did I write the opposite? But I see clearly the pathetic attitudes here: you are right; everybody else who challenges your accepted narrative is wrong, brainwashed, trolls, whatever. There is none so deaf as he who will not hear. You espouse the right to freedom of speech, yet criticise me for exercising it? Ignorance is bliss. May you live a long and happy life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankfurter + 562 ff October 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Otis11 said: You have to talk to them when they happen to be out of the country. They're not going to say or type anything like that - even on their facebook PMs (which avoid most censorship). Risk of getting caught and affecting social score too high, benefit of speaking too low. But have them over for dinner and it's an interesting story... Unbelievable? On this matter we can agree. China has extensive surveillance. But so has the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, France, each and every "western" country. The entire world is now a surveillance state. Now what? But why waste your attentions and efforts focusing upon China? Why are you not applying your talents and efforts against the "authorities" in your own countries? Would this forum not be better served by comparing notes and formulating a grass roots movement? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, frankfurter said: Thanks for sharing your list of "stories". We can see clearly now how westerners have formed their views. It is certainly an avalanche of propaganda. All of it comes from western media (repeatedly and daily exposed to be liars), so it must all be true, right? And nothing occurs in the west (such as murder of protesters, the untold millions slaughtered in "wars of freedom", and much more), right? Actually, what I post is rarely found on mainstream media! 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 October 11, 2019 50 minutes ago, frankfurter said: Unbelievable? On this matter we can agree. China has extensive surveillance. But so has the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, France, each and every "western" country. The entire world is now a surveillance state. Now what? But why waste your attentions and efforts focusing upon China? Why are you not applying your talents and efforts against the "authorities" in your own countries? Would this forum not be better served by comparing notes and formulating a grass roots movement? We have a grass root movement called Trump supporters. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, frankfurter said: Well, when you have a truth, supported by evidence, let's talk. Read the BBC journalist; in black and white he admits he was wrong - in other words he lied. If you cannot accept reality, why do you criticise others who do? You raise points not raised prior. Corruption in China: yes, definitely. Where and when did I write China has none? Chinese citizens do not have speech freedoms exactly like those in the west: this is true. Where and when did I write the opposite? But I see clearly the pathetic attitudes here: you are right; everybody else who challenges your accepted narrative is wrong, brainwashed, trolls, whatever. There is none so deaf as he who will not hear. You espouse the right to freedom of speech, yet criticise me for exercising it? Ignorance is bliss. May you live a long and happy life. I haven't seen anyone criticise you for exercising it. We are just tired of hearing your wrong opinions. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 11, 2019 11 hours ago, frankfurter said: A pity to read you resort to insults. Is this the best you can do? Do you know any citizens or party members in China to base your beliefs? Can you explain why China has sent NO troops into Hong Kong? Who is the brainwashed party? No, and I did not know anyone affiliated with the Nazi party but I can still get a pretty good idea what happened in Germany from, say, 1933-1939. You are playing with words here. China has NOT sent troops to HK - correct. They HAVE sent armored personnel carriers and ‘special’ police and staged them just outside of HK. PS: Fireworks do NOT sound like gunshots.... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said: PS: Fireworks do NOT sound like gunshots.... They may do with either 1. The best fireworks ever or 2. The shittest guns ever Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 11, 2019 Or if you are on a sound stage in Hollywood... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerapath 0 Gt October 11, 2019 (edited) First of all, cease posting your neocon propaganda on an economic forum. We do not want your ideologue-geopolitical BS here. But since you already started, let me counter: China and America are entering a civilization-war (this war is being started by the US, since they want to contain China's rise and remain the sole hegemon). However, America will certainly lose. Do you want to know why? Because China, and the nations that stand with China, have the truth on their side. You speak of freedom, of authoritarianism and of dictatorships? The US and its globalist "allies" have been the largest supporters of dictatorships, since the start of the 20th century. All throughout the cold war, the US has performed regime changes and installed dictators friendly to their empire. https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-killed-more-than-20-million-people-in-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii/5492051 20-30 million dead by the US' hands is just the number directly killed by US bombs or at US orders since 1945. The number would go many orders of magnitude higher if indirect causes, such as long-term political instability or poverty, were included. While China has done almost nothing outside of their borders throughout most of their four-thousand year history, the US was and remains the biggest opponent to freedom in the world. https://bitbucket.org/TheCrypticMan/hong-kong-protests/wiki/2019%20attempted%20'Black%20Revolution'#markdown-header-violence-and-disruption-committed-by-protestors The above link gives just a small taste of the violence perpetrated by Hong Kong's masked rioters, as they beat up, spray acid on, and even kill bystanders, only to be met with minimal force from the police. This has been going on for months. https://bitbucket.org/TheCrypticMan/hong-kong-protests/wiki/2019%20attempted%20'Black%20Revolution'#markdown-header-pro-china-rallies-and-demonstrations Here is a link of pro-China demonstrations in Hong Kong. The majority of HK stands with China, and always will. https://bitbucket.org/TheCrypticMan/hong-kong-protests/wiki/2019%20attempted%20'Black%20Revolution'#markdown-header-foreign-meddling-and-involvement-in-the-protests And lastly, here is a small sample of the mountains of evidence of US-backed intelligence agencies and social media, funding, promoting, arming, passing legislation to support, and even directly organizing the riots. Hundreds of people have been killed by law enforcement within days of the first protest in Iraq, which, just like Kashmir, was met with a total communication blackout and martial law. Thousands have been arrested for protesting climate change in the UK mere days ago. Dakota pipeline protestors are still sitting in prison, some facing jailtime of over 110 years. Millions of peaceful protestors in Puerto Rico were met by violence from American police. And lastly, the Yellow Vest protests (which also saw police kill over a dozen people and injure thousands) are still happening, over a year later. Yet you ignore all of that, and focus only on Hong Kong, because you want it to be a weakspot of China which you can exploit and sow discord in; after all, even former CIA agents have described HK as their listening post to China (Syd Goldsmith). You claim to be defending "freedom" and "democracy", but Hong Kong was freed from the authoritarian British Empire (which killed HK protestors many times) in 1997, and the demos of HK want to integrate further with China. As for "defending", you are merely crying out in pain as you strike a sovereign country on the other side of the world, gaining territory inch-by-inch by acting as if you have any moral or legal rights to interfere in and dictate the affairs of other nations and peoples. You are wholly evil. Edited October 11, 2019 by nerapath 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 11, 2019 Who are you actually addressing in your post? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PE Scott + 563 SC October 11, 2019 17 hours ago, frankfurter said: Sorry, I do not bite at bait. If you are honestly curious, I suggest you consider conducting your own, independent research. You can start by web searching, "the truth about tiananmen sgt report". This is not my source, but will give you a perspective. For the record, my sources are the people who lived through the protest: their testimony and their newspaper clippings, all in Chinese of course. To be fair, this was not 100% bait. I'd honestly be curious to compare a chinese history text to one from the U.S. I have many friends from China. I travelled to china as a guest at one of their weddings and again to visit his family afterwards. They're all very nice people. That being said, they mostly get uncomfortable discussing chinese politics in depth. One thing they have said, and I tend to agree with, is the majority of the chinese people are content with the government and the system there suits them. This is a hard pill for virtuous westerners to swallow. It's also worth noting that my Chinese-American friends have moved most of their immediate family to the U.S. as they have a far better quality of life here. My friends would agree the Chinese are notorious for propaganda and censorship. Neither instill much confidence in their local news. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PE Scott + 563 SC October 11, 2019 (edited) Accidental repost Edited October 11, 2019 by PE Scott Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 11, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said: Who are you actually addressing in your post? I dunno but they are ''wholly evil'' LOL, this was a belter to wake up to. His first post here too HAHAHAHAH. First sentence ''economic forum''. OilPrice.Com Edited October 11, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 October 11, 2019 ‘Wholly evil’ you say....must be me then. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 11, 2019 (edited) Welcome to the forum. Opinions clear. ''Cease posting...'' but you started it, so here's a rant about all I hate in the world. Lovely stuff. Dunno where to start with those ramblings. Big Brother initiation complete. Edited October 11, 2019 by Guest Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest October 11, 2019 @ronwagn started thread, must be to him ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169 RJ October 11, 2019 9 hours ago, ronwagn said: We are just tired of hearing your wrong opinions. I didn't know opinions could be wrong... Unless of course challenging the one true God Donald Trump. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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