KURDS LEFT HIGH AND DRY TO DIE?

[James Regan + 1,776]

https://www.voanews.com/middle-east/bitterness-fear-syria-us-withdraws-troops

It would be interesting to know the forums view on the USA leaving the Kurds to the will and the strength of the Russian Backed Turkish military who are supposedly moving into Kurdistan to fight "terrorists"- One mans Terrorist another mans friend"

Is POTUS showing himself as a person who can not be trusted and worse still is this showing that the USA cannot be trusted once the mandate has supposedly been filled, they back out. Kurdistan was protected for one thing and one thing only the rich oilfields, however now for some reason the oilfields are not so important.

IMO- if the US leaves the Kurds high and dry after managing to split the ISIS power cell it will only come back to bight them, if the ISIS power cell was the target or reason to assist the Kurds. It seems the Kurds will be decimated again and the once great nation people of Kurdistan left to be pillaged again. ( Remember the horrors of the gassed Kurds that shocked America enough to be part of the reason to start a war with Sadam)

Sounds like a good plan to release all the ISIS fighters and families out of the prison camps and also "possibly" take over  the weakened Kurds, perfect location for a vacuum to be filled by any group with an axe to grind. I dont see the Kurds giving in but they are nothing without support. Who's hands will the Kurdish oilfields fall into???

Edited October 8, 2019 by James Regan

[BigJets + 87]

I'm curious who Russia backs here, Turkey as you say, or Syria?  Can't imagine Assad is too happy to see Turkey entering Syria. 

American perspective - you be the first American to go die for the Kurds, be my guest.  Interesting to see who supports this war.  Doubt you would find too many American Service men and women who want to fight in it.  Certainly not the 1000 service men that would have been stuck over there. 

 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

40 minutes ago, James Regan said:

https://www.voanews.com/middle-east/bitterness-fear-syria-us-withdraws-troops

It would be interesting to know the forums view on the USA leaving the Kurds to the will and the strength of the Russian Backed Turkish military who are supposedly moving into Kurdistan to fight "terrorists"- One mans Terrorist another mans friend"

Is POTUS showing himself as a person who can not be trusted and worse still is this showing that the USA cannot be trusted once the mandate has supposedly been filled, they back out. Kurdistan was protected for one thing and one thing only the rich oilfields, however now for some reason the oilfields are not so important.

IMO- if the US leaves the Kurds high and dry after managing to split the ISIS power cell it will only come back to bight them, if the ISIS power cell was the target or reason to assist the Kurds. It seems the Kurds will be decimated again and the once great nation people of Kurdistan left to be pillaged again. ( Remember the horrors of the gassed Kurds that shocked America enough to be part of the reason to start a war with Sadam)

Sounds like a good plan to release all the ISIS fighters and families out of the prison camps and also "possibly" take over  the weakened Kurds, perfect location for a vacuum to be filled by any group with an axe to grind. I dont see the Kurds giving in but they are nothing without support. Who's hands will the Kurdish oilfields fall into???

James,

Trump has never turned his back on the recognized Kurdish Autonomous Region (Capitol in Erbil)! Where are you getting this BS?

There are various Kurdish factions in the area, the SYRIAN Kurds are apparently pissed off because Trump is pulling out something like 50 special forces personnel before the Turks launch their offensive into SYRIA! Probably so that they don’t get killed by the Turks!

Trump has said he’ll destroy the Turkish economy IF they attack the Kurds who the US assisted in kicking the crap out of ISIS.

Is the US supposed to defend all of the various Kurdish factions in the region? They are spread out through Iraq,Turkey, Syria and the rest of the region!!!

The US is NOT the world’s policeman! If the Syrian Kurds want to go head to head with the Turks, it is THEIR decision.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I support the Kurds 100%, was there for a couple of years. The problem is that there are other Kurdish interests besides the recognized Kurdish government. It is much more complicated than the asinine  mainstream media would have you believe.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Not to mention the huge number of Kurds in Turkey. I imagine the Turks are doing this to make sure the border is under control to stop the movement of weapons and YPG fighters into Turkey.

Here's a map for anyone interested of the territory of Syria under control of various forces. Southfront as I've probably said before might be concidered Pro Russia or pro Assad but their reporting has been correct most of the time just be aware that there is always a spin just like our own media.

https://southfront.org/military-situation-in-syria-on-october-8-2019-map-update/

I suspect there will be many negiotiations happening behind the scenes between Russia and Turkey (and the Kurds) and there is a chance that if the US does completely disengage in Syria then the Russians and Syrian army will cross the Euphrates and start putting this territory back under Syrian control with some kind of autonomy promised to the Kurds. There was a report I saw of Russian engineers building a bridge across the Euphrates at Dier ez-Zur. I also cannot imagine the Turks wanting to hold on to even more territory with a hostile population for any length of time, the kurds having been waging gurilla warefare inside Turkey for a few years now.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[James Regan + 1,776]

Its not new for the Kurds to be shafted....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1991/04/07/1975-background-to-betrayal/aa973065-ea5e-4270-8cf9-02361307073c/

https://theintercept.com/2019/10/07/kurds-syria-turkey-trump-betrayal/

The Turks were in talks with the PKK a few years ago, and now they are considered terrorists, I to have spent time in region and Kurds were always considered second class citizens and most definitely on the list for ethnic cleansing. 

Erdogan plans to take one third of Northern Syria and there will be no blood spilled (BS). The US has spent very little in comparison to Iraq and Afghanistan and the life cost is very little 10,000 Kurds died assisting the USA 10 Americans were Killed (10 Americans too many) okay, but IMO the Kurds are getting a rough deal, and to not sit on the fence where the F%^k is NATO (Turkey being part of NATO its mind boggling that no NATO position has been given at all), my point is not against the US its against leaving the Kurds. If POTUS wants to posture then let NATO have some of his wrath and not make idle tweets regarding the  Turkish economy, Tariffs on what carpets, give me a break.

This is a mistake...

Edited October 8, 2019 by James Regan

[James Regan + 1,776]

4 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

James,

Trump has never turned his back on the recognized Kurdish Autonomous Region (Capitol in Erbil)! Where are you getting this BS?

There are various Kurdish factions in the area, the SYRIAN Kurds are apparently pissed off because Trump is pulling out something like 50 special forces personnel before the Turks launch their offensive into SYRIA! Probably so that they don’t get killed by the Turks!

Trump has said he’ll destroy the Turkish economy IF they attack the Kurds who the US assisted in kicking the crap out of ISIS.

Is the US supposed to defend all of the various Kurdish factions in the region? They are spread out through Iraq,Turkey, Syria and the rest of the region!!!

The US is NOT the world’s policeman! If the Syrian Kurds want to go head to head with the Turks, it is THEIR decision.

Doug,

The issue is once Erdogan is in where will it stop, do you really believe it will not steam roll right through the Kurds, at some point the Kurdish factions will have to reunite.

The problem is that the rules of engagement and size of the arena have not been laid out, even the US commanders in the region are not too pleased to pulling out.

I agree with you regarding the US are now not the worlds policemen but for many years chose to take the roll with vigour, and we know why.

Lets hope the US shale play lasts.

Turkey getting a green light on the Kurds is not good for anyone, where will it end?

[El Nikko + 2,145]

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/syrian-kurds-say-partnership-assad-or-russia-considered-if-turkey-invades

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Was it Northern Iraq you guys worked in James and Doug?

I worked near Gaziantep, in the Kurdish region of Turkey not so far from Aleppo which was a bit disconcerting at the time since the civil war was raging. That pretty much ended my desire to see any more of the world.

[James Regan + 1,776]

22 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

Was it Northern Iraq you guys worked in James and Doug?

I worked near Gaziantep, in the Kurdish region of Turkey not so far from Aleppo which was a bit disconcerting at the time since the civil war was raging. That pretty much ended my desire to see any more of the world.

No mine was leisure, travelled throughout Turkey,  and sailed  down the Turkish coast from Izmir to Iskenderun. Was offered work in Northern Iraq but the week with the UK army before being allowed put me off....

Worked in Tuzla shipyard Istambul and saw how the Kurds were treated there, shocking. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by James Regan

[Marcin + 519]

It would be interesting to know the forums view on the USA leaving the Kurds to the will and the strength of the Russian Backed Turkish military who are supposedly moving into Kurdistan to fight "terrorists"- One mans Terrorist another mans friend"

1. Kurds as Kurds do not matter at all for anybody (US, Russia, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Turkey etc.)

2. Kurds are important for US as a gift that keeps on giving, that is keeping in check mate situation

the following countries: Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran. 1 not very obedient but very important NATO member (Turkey), about 15% of global hydrocarbons (Iran, Iraq), and the only base of Russia in Middle East & Meditterranean (Syria).

3. And all of this is done with relatively very small US forces and Kurds are trained to do be a good cannon fodder. This is a very good strategic situation for United States and US will never in the foreseeable future (50 years) leave this particular triangle region in Northern Syria.

4. In recent years the strategic importance of the situation has increased for US as it effectively blocks part of Chinese Belt and Road, Central Asia - Middle East connectivity.

 

So conclusion US will be ALWAYS in Northern Syria and Afghanistan.

The mix of force may change over time, all these elaborate bases that costed billions were not built as new Pyramids just to simply stand on the desert, they were built for purpose.

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

44 minutes ago, James Regan said:

No mine was leisure, travelled throughout Turkey,  and sailed  down the Turkish coast from Izmir to Iskenderun. Was offered work in Northern Iraq but the week with the UK army before being allowed put me off....

Worked in Tuzla shipyard Istambul and saw how the Kurds were treated there, shocking. 

Nice, I've only been once and since ISIS were pouring in through the same airport and city we stayed at before and after the job I was glad not to go back but the Kurds are very nice people.

Here's a few pics, saddly I probably have less photographs from work than then number of years I've worked overseas

[El Nikko + 2,145]

27 minutes ago, Marcin said:

It would be interesting to know the forums view on the USA leaving the Kurds to the will and the strength of the Russian Backed Turkish military who are supposedly moving into Kurdistan to fight "terrorists"- One mans Terrorist another mans friend"

1. Kurds as Kurds do not matter at all for anybody (US, Russia, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Turkey etc.)

2. Kurds are important for US as a gift that keeps on giving, that is keeping in check mate situation

the following countries: Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran. 1 not very obedient but very important NATO member (Turkey), about 15% of global hydrocarbons (Iran, Iraq), and the only base of Russia in Middle East & Meditterranean (Syria).

3. And all of this is done with relatively very small US forces and Kurds are trained to do be a good cannon fodder. This is a very good strategic situation for United States and US will never in the foreseeable future (50 years) leave this particular triangle region in Northern Syria.

4. In recent years the strategic importance of the situation has increased for US as it effectively blocks part of Chinese Belt and Road, Central Asia - Middle East connectivity.

 

So conclusion US will be ALWAYS in Northern Syria and Afghanistan.

The mix of force may change over time, all these elaborate bases that costed billions were not built as new Pyramids just to simply stand on the desert, they were built for purpose.

 

I don't really see the Turks as Russian backed, it wasn't that long ago that they shot down a Russian Su-24 and the Turkish backed Grey Wolves malitia killed the crew while decending in their parachutes and there were other engagements including an attack on a Russian Helicopter using TOW missiles. After that the Turks had to fall into line pretty sharpish as Putin was furious and sanctioned them, eventually they seemed to have come to some kind of agreement over Syria (but we don't know the details) and that led to Russian investment opening up again including an agreement to supply nuclear reactors, a pipeline and the eventual supply of the S-400 missile system.

I think Trump and American geopolitical comentators see Turkey as an ally but also recognise it has it's own geopolitical agenta and they have increasingly pushed for Turkey to police the Middle East to an extent. If you search for George Friedman on youtube he has talked about Turkey for years, his persepective is very interesting and he clearly has an agenda like all comentators but I see his words as an indication of US geopolitical intentions or rather what he hopes the US intentions will be in the future. Well worth listening to.

I agree with some of your asertions but I've been watching and reading for years and I find it's getting increasingly harder to unravel the geopolitical landscape.

[Marcin + 519]

I don't really see the Turks as Russian backed,

I have not said that Turks are Russian backed, the fact that backing Kurds by US is inconvenient to both Turkey and Syria (Russia) does not make them automatically friends, each country has own agenda as you mentioned.

In my opinion backing of Kurds by US is a very good strategic check mate situation done by small money and manpower effort.

And President Trump has no actual power to order US troops and advisors to leave Northern Syria.

It would be simply the act of treason and he would be quickly impeached as he would loose backing of Republican Senators.

President Trump made many apparently "brave" moves like leaving TPP or this PR stunt known as Climate Change Accord.

But leaving Syria or Afghanistan is against vital strategic interests of United States.

So Trump was only on campaign trail, Kurds will not be left behind by US, they are the reason the US can keep military bases in Northern Syria and what more important are very good cannon fodder as they believe they are fighting for independence.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

 

2 hours ago, Marcin said:

It would be interesting to know the forums view on the USA leaving the Kurds to the will and the strength of the Russian Backed Turkish military who are supposedly moving into Kurdistan to fight "terrorists"- One mans Terrorist another mans friend"

 

1 hour ago, Marcin said:

I don't really see the Turks as Russian backed,

I have not said that Turks are Russian backed, the fact that backing Kurds by US is inconvenient to both Turkey and Syria (Russia) does not make them automatically friends, each country has own agenda as you mentioned.

In my opinion backing of Kurds by US is a very good strategic check mate situation done by small money and manpower effort.

And President Trump has no actual power to order US troops and advisors to leave Northern Syria.

It would be simply the act of treason and he would be quickly impeached as he would loose backing of Republican Senators.

President Trump made many apparently "brave" moves like leaving TPP or this PR stunt known as Climate Change Accord.

But leaving Syria or Afghanistan is against vital strategic interests of United States.

So Trump was only on campaign trail, Kurds will not be left behind by US, they are the reason the US can keep military bases in Northern Syria and what more important are very good cannon fodder as they believe they are fighting for independence.

Sorry Marcin I was refering to the upper quote, maybe I misunderstood.

I think you have an interesting and valid perspective, in the end though they cannot stay forever the US economy is 21 (or more) trillion in debt and it's national deficit increases around 1 trillion per year. I see Trump as the guy who is going to attempt to fix that and one way is to reduce their military spending which is basically protecting their allies. I think the message is loud and clear, everyone needs to step up and pay their way and in the ME that someone is going to be Turkey. In Europe that someone might end up being Poland...now that's going to sound crazy

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Marcin said:

I don't really see the Turks as Russian backed,

I have not said that Turks are Russian backed, the fact that backing Kurds by US is inconvenient to both Turkey and Syria (Russia) does not make them automatically friends, each country has own agenda as you mentioned.

In my opinion backing of Kurds by US is a very good strategic check mate situation done by small money and manpower effort.

And President Trump has no actual power to order US troops and advisors to leave Northern Syria.

It would be simply the act of treason and he would be quickly impeached as he would loose backing of Republican Senators.

President Trump made many apparently "brave" moves like leaving TPP or this PR stunt known as Climate Change Accord.

But leaving Syria or Afghanistan is against vital strategic interests of United States.

So Trump was only on campaign trail, Kurds will not be left behind by US, they are the reason the US can keep military bases in Northern Syria and what more important are very good cannon fodder as they believe they are fighting for independence.

@El Nikko already called you out on saying Turkey is Russian backed, right before you claimed you didn't say that. Beyond that mistake, you apparently don't understand the meaning of commander in chief. The president might as well be a 6 star general, EVERYONE in the Armed Forces is under his direct command. He doesn't get to go to war without congressional approval, but we've been having "police actions" under presidents of both parties since WWII with precisely ZERO declared wars. So history books call it the Korean War and the Vietnam War, but legally? Police actions. Same for the two Gulf Wars, and Iraq. Syria isn't even a police action, technically we aren't even supposed to be there, but the Congress critters who are bought and paid for by the military industrial complex are going to raise hell, to anyone who will listen, all while NOT VOTING yes on a war action in Syria. Plausible deniability indeed. 

This President doesn't like being between a rock and a hard place. We're not allowed to excessively arm the Kurds so as not to offend the Turks, while at the same time Turkey has been highly offensive to us. Erdogan is more than happy to play us against the Russians to his personal benefit with some spillover for his country, maybe. There's good reason the European Union didn't want Turkey to join.  

[Zhong Lu + 845]

Trump did say in his campaign that he wants to pull troops out of the Middle East.  

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

6 hours ago, El Nikko said:

Was it Northern Iraq you guys worked in James and Doug?

I worked near Gaziantep, in the Kurdish region of Turkey not so far from Aleppo which was a bit disconcerting at the time since the civil war was raging. That pretty much ended my desire to see any more of the world.

I did a year in Taq Taq, then another year based in Erbil drilling up towards Mosul. This was prior to the ISIS incursion. Loved every minute of my time there.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I think people are confusing the ethnic Kurds spread around the region with those Kurds within the Kurdish Autonomous Region.

The Kurds FINALLY got an autonomous area to call a homeland after Saddam was gone. This was a HUGE step for the Kurds and they are not going to let it go.

There are not enough Kurds to defend and protect their region (which is why the US was allowed in to assist and supply heavy weapons to defeat ISIS). There are definitely not enough Kurds to get involved in conflicts OUTSIDE their region.

The best thing which could happen is if displaced Kurds move into the internationally recognized autonomous region, settle there and participate in the building up and defense of the region. If not, they will be taken on piecemeal.

[Marcin + 519]

33 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I think people are confusing the ethnic Kurds spread around the region with those Kurds within the Kurdish Autonomous Region.

The Kurds FINALLY got an autonomous area to call a homeland after Saddam was gone. This was a HUGE step for the Kurds and they are not going to let it go.

There are not enough Kurds to defend and protect their region (which is why the US was allowed in to assist and supply heavy weapons to defeat ISIS). There are definitely not enough Kurds to get involved in conflicts OUTSIDE their region.

The best thing which could happen is if displaced Kurds move into the internationally recognized autonomous region, settle there and participate in the building up and defense of the region. If not, they will be taken on piecemeal.

Unfortunately for Kurds they are not united under 1 organization, there are 40 million of them, could achieve a lot.

I had an interesting discussion with Kurdish politician at a wedding in September 2017, right after Independence referendum announced by Barzani.

Guy was really pissed off because conclusion of the discussion was that Barzani is stupid egocentric guy thinking only about himself and his family who by announcing the referendum angered all the surrounding countries: Iraq, Turkey and Iran.

Iraq backlash came, the situation was not good for business, I know people flying to Erbil every 2 weeks for business (simple trade not oil business) and suddenly they couldn't.

 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Are you saying that the Kurds should not be seeking an independent homeland?

[mr rex juras mellon 0]

Where there is wealth( black gold in kurdhistan) will the greedy amongst us be far behind?  they will use any means to get their hands on this oil.

that is the story here also. the greedy bstrd  Ergodan will soon meet his end. ths is also what the turkeys want.

Criminal George Bush split the entire Iraq  leaders/tribes by cleverly playing Saddam against the rest. Something like in football where the legedn  Argentine players( coach of Messi lionel )   Deigo maradona splitting the England defence in the 1986 world quarter finals and scored a coupe of goals to win. and only few years later to be  bought down on cocaine possession,  as retribution for his   'hand of god' goal.

Ergodan andBush all must meet their end. these criminals will and have used their own wifes/daufghters as hookers  to  'network ' wiht like minded criminals to destroy iraqi people. Has anyone  seen the mvie  Sean Penn 's Fair game? Bush at work. 

 

Iraqi have been lables as isisi, and all kinds of facitons. these guys are sitting on big oil fields and hva ebeen made outlaswas bt the greedy Bush. He will die eating dog pile 

 

 

 

[James Regan + 1,776]

7 minutes ago, mr rex juras mellon said:

Deigo maradona splitting the England defence in the 1986 world quarter finals and scored a coupe of goals to win. and only few years later to be  bought down on cocaine possession,  as retribution for his   'hand of god' goal.

Some things are beyond a discussion on a forum Diego Maradona is a cheat and you sir have crossed the line, you should be ashamed of yourself 😉

[Guest]

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/aoc-suddenly-flip-flops-now-thinks-pulling-out-syria-terrible-idea

Hilarious.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I am continually impressed as to how African and Middle Eastern countries blame the West for each and every one of their social, financial and political ills, from time immemorial, while accepting zero responsibility.

Must be the original Millennials...🤔