USA pulls troops from Syria

[BillKidd + 139]

I am surprised that oil didn't go up due to Turkey's move into Syria, creating more global unrest.

What I'd like to know is could/did trump just up and decide all by himself to pull the troops? Can the POTUS do that? No checking in with anyone? If so, that is a powerful job!

[Guest]

[James Regan + 1,776]

1 hour ago, BillKidd said:

I am surprised that oil didn't go up due to Turkey's move into Syria, creating more global unrest.

What I'd like to know is could/did trump just up and decide all by himself to pull the troops? Can the POTUS do that? No checking in with anyone? If so, that is a powerful job!

Have you tried www.HoutiShuti.com they are giving live timings in real time of when they will launch another attack on KSA, if you pay for the monthly Platinum service, you can select a target. 

Great trading tool for @DayTrader

Edited October 10, 2019 by James Regan

[Boat + 1,323]

1 hour ago, BillKidd said:

I am surprised that oil didn't go up due to Turkey's move into Syria, creating more global unrest.

What I'd like to know is could/did trump just up and decide all by himself to pull the troops? Can the POTUS do that? No checking in with anyone? If so, that is a powerful job!

Trump is the constitution, just ask him.

[John Foote + 1,135]

I think Executive Branch overreach has been bad for sometime, Trump doesn’t so much overreach more than Obama/Bush43 as he just ignores protocol and dismisses many legal obstructions.

But can the Commander in Chief order troops around. Of course he can!

The Kurds have been sold out so many times. When the Brits/French were carving up the region, clearly the Kurds should have had a place at the table. A legend is oil interests of the west didn’t want negotiations with a land locked country, Kurdistan got scratched.

It is a classic dumbass move though against our interests. US soldiers weren’t getting killed in Syria. Kurds really fight, not hand over money and weapons like Iraqis. Kurds run the only sane part of Iraq. Kurds also help keep Iran in check a bit. So another US move helping Iran’s current regime. And ISIS. And Assad.  

I do believe we need completely out of the region militarily, but this isn’t that. It just destabilizes things more.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I have a question for everyone on this thread.

Everyone seems to be castigating Trump for pulling 1000 troops out of Syria, which somehow stabs the Kurds (which Kurds?) in the back.

What I have not seen is anyone willing to step up to the plate and offer to replace the US troops with troops of their own!

Everyone is beating up on Trump while doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to mitigate the situation.

Where is the UN, NATO, the EU, or China?

Trump is ‘damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t’. He has never made a secret of the fact that he wanted to disengage in the region - it was part of his campaign!

So once again, the world expects the US to be the world’s policeman. When Trump declines to do it, everyone else bitches and moans while the do absolutely nothing constructive.

[PE Scott + 563]

5 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Everyone seems to be castigating Trump for pulling 1000 troops out of Syria, which somehow stabs the Kurds (which Kurds?) in the back.

 

I completely a agree with you and I don't say this to diminish your point, but, as a former service member.....

Those 1000 troops on the ground, for sure, are a force to be reckoned with. However, the support those 1000 troops can bring to bear at relatively short notice is simply unfathomable. I totally get what you're saying about someone else offering to replace them, but let's be real....there is no replacement for U.S. Military presence. I would imagine a large portion of the ME is a little nervous the U.S. is going to pull out and stop offering stability to the region. I can't imagine a better deterrence from doing something stupid than a U.S. carrier group parked off your coast.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I did not intend to indicate that those 1000 Americans on the ground were to be sneezed at. What I am saying is that we are not the worlds policeman. Putting those guys and gals lives at risk, between two groups of nutters, with no benefit to America, would be criminal.

In this geography, landlocked with the guarantee that Turkey would not let an American carrier group operate in Turkish waters, this option is not available.

The sensible option would be to get Kurdistan to okay a base in their autonomous region and ‘arm’ it to the teeth. This would allow any ethnic Kurds who wanted to, to relocate to a safe haven. Then let the Syria-Turkey situation to resolve itself. We do not want to be involved in Syria!

[PE Scott + 563]

I would retract my statement but then it would ruin the flow. I didnt meant to imply you were saying the troops were inconsequential. I was more meaning that any number of U.S. personnel convey a different message than others. 

I agree it shouldn't be U.S. responsibility. I understand where the U.S. is often looked to for that role though. I don't have a good answer, I just see where the U.S. has injected itself in foreign conflict and will, as you said, be damned if they do - damned if they don't with respect to remaining.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

I think US foriegn policy is now fully focused on making it's allies carry their fair share of the burden, I think FP makers wanted the Europeans to take some responsibility for North Africa and the Middle East but after Libya they didn't have the stomach for it. I think Turkey has been selected/encouraged to be the dominant power in the Middle East which actually makes a lot of sense historically and culturally.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Except for the fact that Turkey is run by a nut case...

[John Foote + 1,135]

13 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

The sensible option would be to get Kurdistan to okay a base in their autonomous region and ‘arm’ it to the teeth. 

But there is no Kurdistan. There is a semi-automous region in Iraq, which pisses off Turkey, Iran, Syria (which are essentially putting to the sword), and of course Iraq but Iraq can't do anything about their Kurd situation. Kurdistan is not sustainable unless we want to get into a nation building I certainly don't want a part of. The Kurds are enemies to everyone in the region. And land locked. 

I am all for us getting all the f out, but pulling a thousand or two folks from an area that is stable, surrounded by unstable areas, knowing dam well the shit will hit the fan and helps your known opposition, it begs belief. Don't undo stability. Unless we are going are going to depart the entire region don't make it riskier for the boys (and girls) still there. I believe thousands of more troops are headed to the KSA today, the land that spawned Al Queda and flies airliners into buildings. So don't tell me Trump is getting us out. He's getting us in deeper, with less control of the situation.

Wanting something, and what to do about it to get what you want, are generally very different in complex situations. 

Now the Kurds have been nursing hind tit for quite some time, them losing isn't an issue on one level, ask the mountain folks of Vietnam or Laos how we stood by them, it's ugly, it's politics, and Kurds don't matter, just being used like toilet paper. The only real blow back is not Kurds, but other enemies, and the mounting distrust of the USA by our allies. What fool should trust us? 

But it's the old "who benefits". We've been empowering Al Qaeda in Yemen for a while with KSA's misadventures and UAE funding. This withdrawal helping pretty much every enemy we have in the region. A butter bar has more sense than this. 

 

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

6 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Except for the fact that Turkey is run by a nut case...

Having a controlled nut case has never been a problem before.

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing here...I just wonder what a wierd timeline we're in when the US and UK both voted against any invasion of Syria and yet here we are with the US & UK with troops inside Syria and have been holding ground for a few years.

I think we're all having the wrong discussion, how did we get here?

The whole ME policy for the last 20+ years has been a complete disaster, the US and UK are financially burned out thanks to that and now we're in a major situation where the US has to pivot to the Pacific and Europe is still talking about soldiers wearing high-heels. Mealwhile there are major threats to Europe from the Med/Africa, to Russia and to the Middle East especially with the next invasion of refugees inbound...did it even ever stop?

For sure we're in a new cold war and a 'new normal'

Just a theory btw

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

Having a controlled nut case has never been a problem before.

@Enthalpic  violently nodding ... 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

The only way to "solve" the Kurd problem is for Turkey and the PKK to enter Utopia, decide to stop fighting and stop treating them as 2nd class citizens and for "Kurdistan" parts of Iraq/Syria and most of Eastern Turkey to join Turkey as equal partners otherwise it is a land locked country and well.... just no. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, John Foote said:

But there is no Kurdistan. There is a semi-automous region in Iraq, which pisses off Turkey, Iran, Syria (which are essentially putting to the sword), and of course Iraq but Iraq can't do anything about their Kurd situation. Kurdistan is not sustainable unless we want to get into a nation building I certainly don't want a part of. The Kurds are enemies to everyone in the region. And land locked. 

I am all for us getting all the f out, but pulling a thousand or two folks from an area that is stable, surrounded by unstable areas, knowing dam well the shit will hit the fan and helps your known opposition, it begs belief. Don't undo stability. Unless we are going are going to depart the entire region don't make it riskier for the boys (and girls) still there. I believe thousands of more troops are headed to the KSA today, the land that spawned Al Queda and flies airliners into buildings. So don't tell me Trump is getting us out. He's getting us in deeper, with less control of the situation.

Wanting something, and what to do about it to get what you want, are generally very different in complex situations. 

Now the Kurds have been nursing hind tit for quite some time, them losing isn't an issue on one level, ask the mountain folks of Vietnam or Laos how we stood by them, it's ugly, it's politics, and Kurds don't matter, just being used like toilet paper. The only real blow back is not Kurds, but other enemies, and the mounting distrust of the USA by our allies. What fool should trust us? 

But it's the old "who benefits". We've been empowering Al Qaeda in Yemen for a while with KSA's misadventures and UAE funding. This withdrawal helping pretty much every enemy we have in the region. A butter bar has more sense than this. 

 

 

You do not know squat about Kurdistan.

If there is no such thing as Kurdistan...how did you happen to use the term?

[BillKidd + 139]

9 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Except for the fact that Turkey is run by a nut case...

And the USA is not?

[Guest]

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

55 minutes ago, BillKidd said:

And the USA is not?

I don’t think so...

[John Foote + 1,135]

20 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

You do not know squat about Kurdistan.

They neighbored with the Armenians. The region hasn't done well by either of them. Go back, a version of the Persian empire, which is distinct from Iran, not monolithic. 

You suggested arming them to the teeth, not me. We actually did just the opposite, and have actually defanged a bit on Turkey's request. We kept our part of the deal. 

As I say again, out of the region completely, I want that. Trying to pick and choose the winners, we will lose.

[Zhong Lu + 845]

If it's "out immediately" then Trump should also pull out of Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, and Yemen, and leave Iran alone.  

If Iran develops nuclear weapons, and Saudi Arabia responds, it's not our concern is it? 

If ISIS takes over territory in Syria, who cares.  After all they're just a group of desert bandits.  Not our concern.  Right?

Edited October 13, 2019 by Zhong Lu

[Dmitry Bedin + 25]

On 10/11/2019 at 7:05 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

I have a question for everyone on this thread.

Everyone seems to be castigating Trump for pulling 1000 troops out of Syria, which somehow stabs the Kurds (which Kurds?) in the back.

What I have not seen is anyone willing to step up to the plate and offer to replace the US troops with troops of their own!

Everyone is beating up on Trump while doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to mitigate the situation.

Where is the UN, NATO, the EU, or China?

Trump is ‘damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t’. He has never made a secret of the fact that he wanted to disengage in the region - it was part of his campaign!

So once again, the world expects the US to be the world’s policeman. When Trump declines to do it, everyone else bitches and moans while the do absolutely nothing constructive.

How do you know that? “The World “expects” the usa to be world’s policemen” Did the teacher in your middle school told you that? Or that is your american wet dream?

Edited October 13, 2019 by Dmitry Bedin

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Do you have to work hard at being a moron, or does it just come naturally?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/05/28/obama-says-u-s-will-no-longer-be-the-worlds-policeman/

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/05/21/world/text-of-president-reagan-s-speech-on-threat-to-latin-america.html