The power of propaganda has no boundaries: Which country has larger territory US od China

[Marcin + 519]

Test yourself give the answer, even better give arguments for your answer.

question is by no matter political.

if no right answers will provide the one in 24 hours

Edit: Answer at 2:23 pm

China has larger territory than US by small margin (9632 thousand km2 China vs 9525 thousand km2 US or 9541 thousand km2 US with possessions like Puerto Rico etc.)

Why am I asking such a bizarre question in the first place ? To prove some concept.

In vast majority of English language internet sources the answer is 9833 thousand km2, because value of coastal and territorial waters is added but ONLY for United States. Territories of all other 200 countries are stated correctly. (Examples of sources: United States article in wikipedia visited by 1 mln people monthly, CIA Factbook, United Nations Statistical Division etc.). If the same methodology was applied to Canada it would have area of 12 million km2, but nowhere seen this number, probably because it is wrong.

Fortunately books are accurate: my Rand McNally atlas has 9541, the same as Polish encyclopedia or Britannica. But who reads books these days ?

This is not an important information but what is strange nobody cares, even at official sites like CIA Factbook.

A lot of such information peddled these days, used this example as objective, undisputable because it concerns physical feature.

end of rant

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Marcin

[Guest]

Will the answer come from American or Chinese propaganda?

As its power has no boundaries.

Meh, not even bothered by the answer anyway.

Moving on.

Respect. 

Edited October 14, 2019 by Guest

[Marcin + 519]

Territory is physical feature like height of the mountain in meters, what you think about it, does not change the physical value. Mount Everest will always be around 8848 meters, not 8600 or 9350 whatever your opinion about it.

 

[Guest]

@Otis11 , you're up ....

@Marcin , what the Chinese call their 'territory' has changed again and again and again and again over the years.

1 hour ago, Marcin said:

what you think about it, does not change the physical value.

I agree. What the Chinese ''think about it'' will change, depending on the era, or their version of history, as you proved in the statement about my article being bullshit due to China's definition of that line.

So I go back to my original question, of whose propaganda/ history/ definition of land which is territory, etc, is this answer gonna come from?

And why is the size of the territory so important? Does that tell you anything about the country or its power or importance? Its size? Look how big the UK is on a world map. We are amazing. Fact. 

Cheers. 

#freetibet   #brexit   #HK

Edited October 14, 2019 by Guest

[PE Scott + 563]

3 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Look how big the UK is on a world map. We are amazing. Fact. 

Mic drop. 

[Otis11 + 551]

The US, duh...

[Otis11 + 551]

Hmm, lets say we cut through the propaganda with some facts?

(Though this is strongly going to reflect how you define territory. If you include water, or only usable land area, and if you include territorial waters or exclusive economics zones.)

Land area of US:

• Contiguous: 3,043,615 sq mi
• Including Alaska and Hawaii: 3,796,742 sq mi
• America Samoa (76 sq mi)
• Guam (210 sq mi)
• Northern Mariana Islands (179 sq mi)
• Puerto Rico (3515 sq mi)
• US Virgine Islands (134 sq mi)

Historically the US has also controlled:(history is rusty... could be more?)

• Cuba ( 42,426 sq mi)
• Philipines (115,831 sq mi)

Under the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 the US can also include 'areas occupied by and controlled by the United States Armed Forces'... which would include the Blue (under the broadest definition possible):

 

 

And for China:

• Internationally recognized: 3,705,407 sq mi
• Quig Dynasty: 5,100,000 sq mi (at largest point - roughly a million of this is outside present day China)
• Yuan Dynasty: 5,300,000 sq mi (at largest point - roughly a million of this is outside present day China)

Taiwan adds 13,976 sq mi.

Disputed land with India adds ~46,000 sq miles

... and yeah. You could make the argument that China de facto controls a number of other countries because either the leadership is 1)In China's Pocket, 2)Terrified to say anything against Beijing, or 3)so Economically indebted that China makes all the decisions and anything else would be economic suicide.

 

So the big answer is - which do you want it to be? Because I can 'prove' either about 10 different ways.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

The US, duh...

Lol "that's EUROPE inside of Texas"

Cause, no one would recognize the Continent of Africa

[Otis11 + 551]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Lol "that's EUROPE inside of Texas"

Cause, no one would recognize the Continent of Africa

Or Europe or Australia for that matter...

Is almost like they asked an American...

(Said the American)

[Guest]

The first half of the thread title tells me all I need to know ... 🤣

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Agreed. The bigger question is, ‘Why is this important?’

[PE Scott + 563]

Game changer, Marcin claims the backside of the moon belongs to China. 

Still, the answer means nothing and we wonder to ourselves, if just maybe, there is such a thing as a stupid question? 

[Boat + 1,323]

Sometime back I claimed space except for the moon. Japan messed with one of my asteroids recently prompting well justified outrage. Bills for space junk storage will be sent as soon as crowd source funding will allow a secretary. Please be patient as the price for passing through black space will be charged differently from the actual touching of carbon related materials that have massed. Size does matter.

[Guest]

Just seen the edit to initial thread starter. So China is bigger? I never saw that one coming...

That must mean they're 'better'. So Russia are clearly amazing. 

23 hours ago, Marcin said:

Fortunately books are accurate

Yes every book ever published is 100% accurate. Phew, we sorted it. 

23 hours ago, Marcin said:

A lot of such information peddled these days

''The power of propaganda'' has no boundaries indeed. 

- - - - - - - 

And England is still small and amazing. Fact. 

 

[Marcin + 519]

1 hour ago, DayTrader said:

Just seen the edit to initial thread starter. So China is bigger? I never saw that one coming...

That must mean they're 'better'. So Russia are clearly amazing. 

Yes every book ever published is 100% accurate. Phew, we sorted it. 

''The power of propaganda'' has no boundaries indeed. 

- - - - - - - 

And England is still small and amazing. Fact. 

 

You do not get my intention. This is just information, I just wanted to show some trend.

America becomes more intellectualy shallow each year, it is really sad.

US kids become worse performers in each consecutive PISA test.

In 2015 PISA test Chinese and in general East Asian kids are much better on average.

What more, the % of high achievers, kids that will become engineers, doctors, scientists or managers decreases,

per 2015 PISA test only 16% of US kids are high achievers in comparison with 30% of Chinese kids.

And Chinese have numerical advantage , 16-17 million Chinese enter labour market each year, over 8 million of them have bachelor degree or higher. 4million Americans enter labour market each year. Ok, lets not demonize school performers.

But also number of PhDs, citations is now higher in China than US and is growing each year while US stagnates.

With dumb attitude US will certainly loose technology war with China, sure it has some headstart, but China is narrowing distance in all areas , and fast.

High tech start-ups as well as large players just NEED to have R&D site in Shenzen or China at large, because here prototyping takes days not weeks etc.

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Marcin said:

You do not get my intention. This is just information, I just wanted to show some trend.

Hahah no trust me, I get your intention. You started this thread about country borders, propaganda and saying it's not political. 

Above you have just proved it's entirely geopolitical and nothing to do with land mass, which we all knew, and is all about ''here are some USA v China stats''. 

Not one word of what you just said is about land or borders. It's about education and then bit about technology. The moral, as it is often round here, is ''the books I read are fact, yours are all wrong''? And ''Americans are getting dumber..'' ?

But I assume we agree that England is amazing? And that propaganda's power has no boundaries? You just need to read any thread relating to China to see that. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Guest

[Marcin + 519]

Oh Day Trader, as always your answer do not include refute of arguments but everything is down to simple China vs America(and UK) narrative.

I wrote about 20 posts here at oilprice that have some internal cohesion, argumentation,

but have not yet met anybody (bar the guy in trade/technology war thread, he had quality & insight) to discuss about meritoric value of them, all the time just we vs them, unfortunately the world is not that simple, but oilprice forum is not the place to discuss this or geopolitics.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Marcin said:

America becomes more intellectualy shallow each year, it is really sad.

US kids become worse performers in each consecutive PISA test.

In 2015 PISA test Chinese and in general East Asian kids are much better on average.

What more, the % of high achievers, kids that will become engineers, doctors, scientists or managers decreases,

per 2015 PISA test only 16% of US kids are high achievers in comparison with 30% of Chinese kids.

And Chinese have numerical advantage , 16-17 million Chinese enter labour market each year, over 8 million of them have bachelor degree or higher. 4million Americans enter labour market each year. Ok, lets not demonize school performers.

But also number of PhDs, citations is now higher in China than US and is growing each year while US stagnates.

With dumb attitude US will certainly loose technology war with China, sure it has some headstart, but China is narrowing distance in all areas , and fast.

22 minutes ago, Marcin said:

but everything is down to simple China vs America(and UK) narrative.

LOLOLOL 🤣🤣🤣 

I hope that's a joke. Your entire post was a comparison!!  

Even the thread title by the way is a comparison between US and China ...? 

It's ok for you to do it then?  It's not political though. Phew. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Guest

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Marcin said:

but have not yet met anybody (bar the guy in trade/technology war thread, he had quality & insight) to discuss about meritoric value of them

Yep it's hard to get to your level bro. Not too insulting to the entire forum. 

On 10/14/2019 at 5:57 PM, DayTrader said:

Meh, not even bothered by the answer anyway.

Moving on.

As always, I should just stick to my first instinct  #poker

Edited October 15, 2019 by Guest

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

23 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Look how big the UK is on a world map. We are amazing. Fact. 

 

Most map projections are are garbage representations of the earth.

https://www.geographyrealm.com/types-map-projections/amp/

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

garbage representations

Looks pretty small in every version I saw there ... and it's waaaaaaay smaller than USA, Canada, Russia, China, Australia, Brazil, etc in whatever version you wanna choose from. 

England is amazing. Fact. Deal with it buddy. 

<cough> Commonwealth

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Guest

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

10 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

 

England is amazing. Fact. Deal with it buddy. 

<cough> Commonwealth

 

We can agree it's far better than the US, and almost as amazing as Canada.

[Otis11 + 551]

2 hours ago, Marcin said:

You do not get my intention. This is just information, I just wanted to show some trend.

America becomes more intellectualy shallow each year, it is really sad.

US kids become worse performers in each consecutive PISA test.

In 2015 PISA test Chinese and in general East Asian kids are much better on average.

What more, the % of high achievers, kids that will become engineers, doctors, scientists or managers decreases,

per 2015 PISA test only 16% of US kids are high achievers in comparison with 30% of Chinese kids.

And Chinese have numerical advantage , 16-17 million Chinese enter labour market each year, over 8 million of them have bachelor degree or higher. 4million Americans enter labour market each year. Ok, lets not demonize school performers.

But also number of PhDs, citations is now higher in China than US and is growing each year while US stagnates.

With dumb attitude US will certainly loose technology war with China, sure it has some headstart, but China is narrowing distance in all areas , and fast.

High tech start-ups as well as large players just NEED to have R&D site in Shenzen or China at large, because here prototyping takes days not weeks etc.

 

So a few things here - we need to look at what is considered an 'Engineering' degree and what isn't.

Engineering, Engineering Technology, Engineering Technician, Mechanic, Computer Scientist, Computer Technologist, Computer Technician, IT Engineer, IT Technician, Network Engineer, Network Architect and Network technician (plus more) are all very different degrees that have different amounts of training. Some of these are 6 month programs, others are 2 year associates, and others are 4 year degrees (and some technically require specialization to get a job, so anyone with that title probably has a masters.

In the US, only a 4 year degree and above counts as a BS. In China and India, there are 3 year programs (some are equivalent to 4 year degrees, but many are more similar to our 2 year associates degrees) - that in the statistics are all likely to show up as BS degrees. 

Further, not all Bachelors are equivalent.

I once was in an interview with a guy who had a masters from (what will remain an unnamed - though it's a reasonably prestigious school) in India. He had a lengthy 2 page resume that the hiring manager though was incredibly impressive and asked me to review. (He had obviously worked hard on presenting things in the best light possible). My feedback was that I could recreate everything claimed on the resume in 2 months or less. When he questioned me, I had him point out a project sited where the guy oversaw a team of 5 to create this product. I coded that project up in 20 minutes with the hiring manager sitting right next to me. Sure, the guy likely had a more refined result, etc, but 5 guys? I wouldn't have wanted more than 2! They'd just get in each-other's way! The whole resume was like that.

Now don't get me wrong, I've had friends and coworkers from various Indian, Chinese, South Korean, Japanese, and European educational backgrounds and I've met really sharp people from all of them - but the AVERAGE quality of those engineers has varied drastically. There's a reason many of those people come to the US to get their degrees. In most Asian countries, in fact, if you get a Masters or PhD from a highly ranked US school, you have your life made - you can go back and be a very highly respected teacher in India, China, or South Korea (trust me, I have friends doing that very thing).

 

My point here isn't that one country is better, but rather that those stats are incredibly misleading at best - more likely just worthless.

 

I, for one, am not terribly concerned with China winning the technology war. Most of what I've seen come out of their research labs is impressive sounding, but upon further examination, is a incremental improvement on work that's already been done. The much bigger threat is the continued drain on our economy and the continued theft of intellectual property starving the economic engine that drives the US industrial-educational research relationship. (Well, that and all the problems with our higher education systems - we have a lot of internal politics and self-aggrandizement within Academia here... but that's another topic)

[Guest]

@Otis11 , I don't get the relevance to the thread? It's clearly about borders and land mass. Duh. 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Guest

[Otis11 + 551]

23 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

@Otis11 , I don't get the relevance to the thread? It's clearly about borders and land mass. Duh. 

Oh, my mistake...

Sorry to be the only person on the forum that brought a thread off topic. 🤣