ABC of Brexit, economy wise, where to find sites, links to articles ?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ronwagn said:

Fight on! Where is Farage?!

He does almost daily radio show on LBC Ron, (leading britain's conversation)

They're on YT

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Guest]

type into YT  'farage you stuck up snob'

gold

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 minute ago, DayTrader said:

type into YT  'farage you stuck up snob'

gold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CfUDVWMm5A I am a premium Youtube subscriber. 

[Guest]

haha nice, its actually better on YT as you can whizz through news and ads, when you see his face then play basically

some of the callers are hilarious

Edited October 18, 2019 by Guest

[Marcin + 519]

I have read a little bit about UK political system, election rules and for me BREXIT is a direct effect of lack of democracy in UK. UK is something called Failed Democracy. General election, the major process, the core of representative, indirect democracy is botched in UK. It is botched by election rules: mainly 1 mandate constituences and first-past-the-post. In May 2015 people casted 3.9 million votes, 12.6% of total on Independence Party and gained 1 MP. In normal not botched democracy like in Germany this would result in 60-80 MPs. But here in Britain 4 million voters are not able to get their representation and should be very angry bevause are excluded from decision processes in their country. With 60-80 MPs they would ensure that their agenda is realized by government, also their immigration agenda etc.

1 year later there was referendum, the only form of democracy that could represent millions of excluded Britons and they shown their voice.

For me it was more referendum about condition of democracy in Britain and less about leaving EU.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

20 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Yeah that would be a bonus. Honestly man, when I was a kid, a story about a stabbing would be a huge event, like maybe some annual thing that was shocking. Now it's like standard news from London (which I avoid like the plague anyway) and some gang crap.

''Gone to the dogs'' comes to mind. Bring on Brexit.

LOL. 

Like brexit is going to fix the UKs problems... 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Rasmus as a Dane i am sure you are pro the EU and Denmark and its people are very proud to be Danish and rightly so from my experiences there.

However for Brits we are an island nation and we just don't like being dictated to by Brussels.

Not so long ago (in human history terms) the British Empire ruled the globe and its a big cultural shift to be "part of the EU club" for most Brits. Rightly or wrongly we voted leave to "take back control" of our borders to try to control the torrent of uncontrolled immigration in an attempt to have some control on social services, education , NHS, unemployment etc etc.

Without any control we are country as DT has said that is already full and these services are at breaking point.

For example If we go to the EU we have to pay BEFORE we are seen by a doctor. In the UK our NHS that we have paid heavy taxes for all our working lives are being used by people who have never paid a penny for these and they are treated immediately without question. It is wrong and we cannot fund this anymore.

To answer your point Brexit is the start but it will take years to overcome what has already happened to our great country.

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

it will take years to overcome

Exactly. It seems Europeans are bitter we voted 'leave' at all. 

2 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

LOL. 

Like brexit is going to fix the UKs problems... 

Yeah we should just stay then right? Then you'll all be happy, you can drag us down into this mess and we keep paying like £300 million a week? One of the UK's 'problems' is being in this BS, so Brexit will solve 1 straight away haha. 

This is the same as the trade war mentality mate, if something's hard don't bother. How dare we want to be free of this?!! How can we possibly cope, after hundreds of years of war and history, after 40 years in the EU?? We are doomed yes.

Give it a few years, then let's see how we're doing, and how the EU is doing. Germany looking great by the way   and the stabbings in France etc. Enjoy those immigration laws. When you walk down the road and realise you never hear Danish any more get back to me. 

England is amazing. Fact. Deal with it buddy x

 

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 hours ago, Marcin said:

I have read a little bit about UK political system, election rules and for me BREXIT is a direct effect of lack of democracy in UK. UK is something called Failed Democracy. General election, the major process, the core of representative, indirect democracy is botched in UK. It is botched by election rules: mainly 1 mandate constituences and first-past-the-post. In May 2015 people casted 3.9 million votes, 12.6% of total on Independence Party and gained 1 MP. In normal not botched democracy like in Germany this would result in 60-80 MPs. But here in Britain 4 million voters are not able to get their representation and should be very angry bevause are excluded from decision processes in their country. With 60-80 MPs they would ensure that their agenda is realized by government, also their immigration agenda etc.

1 year later there was referendum, the only form of democracy that could represent millions of excluded Britons and they shown their voice.

For me it was more referendum about condition of democracy in Britain and less about leaving EU.

I see the European Union as the main reason for the fall of democracy in Britain. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

16 hours ago, DayTrader said:

It seems Europeans are bitter we voted 'leave' at all. 

I don't think that is the case. I am personally NOT. I am however offended that you blame things on the EU that does NOT deserve the blame for. 

16 hours ago, DayTrader said:

Enjoy those immigration laws.

Pls tell me exactly which immigration laws is the issue? I have asked this questions numerous times to EU haters but never got a factual answer. 

 

17 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Not so long ago (in human history terms) the British Empire ruled the globe and its a big cultural shift to be "part of the EU club" for most Brits.

This is an argument I respect. Our culture is different. Fair play. 

I disagree with the economic argument, but fully agree with the cultural one. As stated before I have many, many English and Scottish friends. 

17 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Rightly or wrongly we voted leave to "take back control" of our borders to try to control the torrent of uncontrolled immigration in an attempt to have some control on social services, education , NHS, unemployment etc etc.

 

17 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Without any control we are country as DT has said that is already full and these services are at breaking point.

For example If we go to the EU we have to pay BEFORE we are seen by a doctor. In the UK our NHS that we have paid heavy taxes for all our working lives are being used by people who have never paid a penny for these and they are treated immediately without question. It is wrong and we cannot fund this anymore.

My take on this is : immigrants from other EU countries are an overall economic benefit to the UK. @Alex Palamas posted about this at length. The system being broken has to do with how the system is organized / financed. 

We have similar issues in Denmark. And it is easy to buy the argument that is all EUs fault, because then we can tell ourselfes that there is a quick fix that will NOT hurt. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

14 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I see the European Union as the main reason for the fall of democracy in Britain.

How ? this is a serious question. And I have a challenge for you as well - can you answer this without linking a breitbart or similar article??

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

29 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

17 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Without any control we are country as DT has said that is already full and these services are at breaking point.

For example If we go to the EU we have to pay BEFORE we are seen by a doctor. In the UK our NHS that we have paid heavy taxes for all our working lives are being used by people who have never paid a penny for these and they are treated immediately without question. It is wrong and we cannot fund this anymore.

My take on this is : immigrants from other EU countries are an overall economic benefit to the UK. @Alex Palamas posted about this at length. The system being broken has to do with how the system is organized / financed. 

We have similar issues in Denmark. And it is easy to buy the argument that is all EUs fault, because then we can tell ourselfes that there is a quick fix that will NOT hurt. 

Rasmus

I actually voted to remain so in fairness to the EU you may well be right regarding the economics, however nobody really knows in my opinion as Brexit hasnt happened yet (and is very unlikely to).

However as I have posted several times previously on other threads it is essential that we leave and do it sooner rather than later as the uncertainty for businesses is having a negative effect on our economy. Also every other "issue" from housing, education, defence, NHS etc is being forgotten and the issues within all of these areas are being neglected.

I believe controlled immigration is a benefit to most nations and enrich societies. However my point was for decades this hasn't been controlled by a succession of UK governments (all blaming the EU for their own failings). Brexit will start to address this. You only have to see the camps in Northern France of migrants desperately trying to cross the English Channel, I would ask why these migrants travel all across Europe and wont or dont want to settle in France, Germany or any other EU "major" nation but insist on the UK? Is it because the UK has free healthcare and offers free housing to all etc etc.?

Besides that remain lost, FACT, I've accepted it, so should our politicians. As a democracy we have a responsibility to our people to leave.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

40 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Besides that remain lost, FACT, I've accepted it, so should our politicians.

Agree. 

41 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

however nobody really knows in my opinion as Brexit hasnt happened yet

Agree. For this reason "we will be great once we leave" is as tiresome as the doom and gloom when leave. 

46 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Brexit will start to address this.

I disagree. As long as the attraction to come remain; people will find ways to come. 

47 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I believe controlled immigration is a benefit to most nations and enrich societies. However my point was for decades this hasn't been controlled by a succession of UK governments (all blaming the EU for their own failings).

I think this goes for most Northern European countries / "Old EU". 

48 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

You only have to see the camps in Northern France of migrants desperately trying to cross the English Channel, I would ask why these migrants travel all across Europe and wont or dont want to settle in France, Germany or any other EU "major" nation but insist on the UK? Is it because the UK has free healthcare and offers free housing to all etc etc.?

I think it is more nuanced than this. In Scandinavia for examples we have more "free" stuff than in the UK. More importantly I don't see Brexit doing anything about the reason to come; potentially it can make it a little bit more difficult. Potentially.

 

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

For this reason "we will be great once we leave" is as tiresome as the doom and gloom when leave. 

''Once we leave'' ??  We are amazing. When will this sink in?  It's fact buddy. 

I'm not saying 'once we leave' if that's to me - I've always said and thought give us 2-3 years to wade through the shite and let's go from there. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

2 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

''Once we leave'' ??  We are amazing. When will this sink in?  It's fact buddy. 

I'm not saying 'once we leave' if that's to me - I've always said and thought give us 2-3 years to wade through the shite and let's go from there. 

fair play. We can compare notes in 2 - 3 years. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

3 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

4 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Brexit will start to address this.

I disagree. As long as the attraction to come remain; people will find ways to come. 

There is "attraction to come" as long as there is economic disparity. However we are an island nation and this makes it harder to come to the UK illegally than most other European countries.

Only 25% of illegal immigrants are ever "returned" to their own country. This will be down to lack of border control and funding to get the ones caught and then deported. We currently only apprehend a very small percentage of illegal migrants due to this poor funding. Brexit will ensure the correct level of funding is in place to catch more offenders and also then deport them as they should already be doing. Word will soon get back to the other wannabe migrants that they will be wasting their money trying to get in the UK and head off somewhere else, maybe Denmark??

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

5 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

We currently only apprehend a very small percentage of illegal migrants due to this poor funding. Brexit will ensure the correct level of funding is in place to catch more offenders and also then deport them as they should already be doing.

I guess this is where we disagree. I do not know of any EU regulation preventing EU countries from sending illegal immigrants home. If what you are saying is that Brexit will force the government to better enforcement then I guess I can accept that. As long as we can agree that illegal immigration is not the EUs fault.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

immigrants from other EU countries are an overall economic benefit to the UK

If you earn £30k or more yes. Otherwise not.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

1 hour ago, DayTrader said:

If you earn £30k or more yes. Otherwise not.

 

We live in an age of the most incredible and disgusting middle class snobbery where so called liberal types want something that hurts the poorer working class.

[Guest]

Yep well they get to hear English now and again, and aren't in an area where they may get stabbed

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 10/18/2019 at 9:57 PM, DayTrader said:

If you earn £30k or more yes. Otherwise not.

Can you elaborate? Serious question. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 10/18/2019 at 8:10 PM, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I guess this is where we disagree. I do not know of any EU regulation preventing EU countries from sending illegal immigrants home. If what you are saying is that Brexit will force the government to better enforcement then I guess I can accept that. As long as we can agree that illegal immigration is not the EUs fault.

Yeah what I'm saying is we don't have the funding currently to deport illegal immigrants or robust enough border controls. I'm not blaming the Eu for that other than all the money that we pay the EU for little in return.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

9 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Yeah what I'm saying is we don't have the funding currently to deport illegal immigrants or robust enough border controls. I'm not blaming the Eu for that other than all the money that we pay the EU for little in return.

Fair enough. I guess where I disagree is that I think the trade benefits of being in the Union outweigh the cost. Anyways, that is irrelevant because the vore was to leave. 

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

4 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Can you elaborate? Serious question. 

It is low income people who are most affected by mass immigration, they do not get any benefits for example

• More competition for low skilled work
• Increasing house prices beyond their means
• Less access to doctors and hospitals
• Shortage of school places

We did not build the infrastructure to cope with the extra millions of people that came here and that does have an effect on the poorest people less so for the middle classes.