The 5 Scary New Rules Of Upside-Down Capitalism

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

4 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

What's that based on?

Nothing, obviously from what I wrote;  I suggested the reason he is hiding his taxes is not illegal but because he has excellent accountants.

[Boat + 1,324]

I’ll check closer to the election but obviously spending money or massive investments in anything defies logic. Stopping immigration a major+. Stop looking for geopolitical nails to hit with our military hammer a major+. Flat tax is a good idea. Withdrawal from trade over a couple of decades with Authoritarian systems is a good course. You got a candidate for me?

[Guest]

Ah I see, sorry been up a while lol, it's 8am here.

7 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

he has excellent accountants.

 Yep probably, I would too.

1 minute ago, Boat said:

You got a candidate for me?

Well you seem so anti Trump I assumed you'd tell me this miracle Democrat candidate that will save the day?

#DT2020  Duh   

Edited November 22, 2019 by Guest

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

4 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

 

 Yep probably, I would too.

 

You don't understand how exposing those taxes could reduce support?

Of course everything he could possibly want recently was on the government dime (including lasting changes to his buildings...) but even then before that there is/should be a massive amount of taxable benefits from his various companies. It's not like he checks in at his hotels....

 

 

 

[Guest]

It could do yes. Many Americans may also not give a shit. It's just yet another accusation at the moment. I imagine Americans are pretty bored of it. I am and I don't even live there. I'm sure when Ukraine BS turns into a big fat nothing then his taxes will come up again, so don't worry. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

I never worry....and once again I'm proud to be a Canadian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAbisg02JD4

[Guest]

Wow that was just noise, and quite possibly the worst drummer I've ever heard. Tuning rhythm guitars is also always a bonus I find. I'm either getting old or that was just shit. Possibly a bit of both. Sounded like the awful nazi bands in American History X. The youtube comments were more entertaining. 

Not exactly Zep are they? You're 'proud' of that?? You know Rush are Canadian yes? You've seen their drummer?

🤣🤣

#proudtobeenglish (actual music).

Cheers.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Guest

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

40 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Wow that was just noise

Exactly. Did you listen to the whole thing?

[Guest]

LOL have a wild guess. My eardrums wouldn't let me.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

18 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

I doubt he did much - if anything - illegal in his taxes; it's just really hard to campaign as rich-man-who-loves-America when he contributes less than a regular John Doe trying to get ahead.

He also doesn't want those loopholes exposed and shut...

Those same "loopholes" are available to EVERY HOME OWNER IN AMERICA! No doubt, we ALL want those eliminated. Not. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 11/21/2019 at 4:44 PM, DayTrader said:

Back in 2014, the European Central Bank made history when they pushed interest rates into negative territory. Literally never before in the history of the world had interest rates been negative.

This has turned into a negative, sniping thread so I shudder to comment fully.  I would say, however, that the above statement is a bit misleading.  It might (or might not) be "technically correct," but it is not the whole picture. 

I would suggest that a "negative interest rate" develops when the investor [here, bank depositor]  sees a net negative return on deposited capital, whatever the source.  That could be generated by fees, by actual interest payments, by externalities (such a government or bank confiscation) or some combination of causes.  To illustrate:

During the "Cold War" the German landed-gentry monied people were utterly terrified of the Soviet tank hordes sweeping across the North German Plain.  So, various rich folks would deposit their liquid wealth in Swiss  Banks, in the presumption that Swiss Franc accounts would maintain their value no matter what the Russian grunts were up to. The flood of money heading into Switzerland got out of control, the Swiss could not recycle those deposits into viable loans fast enough, so they simply placed a "capital deposit charge" on those accounts of 2%. 

That is to say, you the depositor paid the Swiss Banker 2% of your deposited capital every year, and you got zero interest.  So your net cost was a negative 2%.  This was in 1962.  

In the Cyprus banking crisis of 2012-2013, various classes of customer depositors were taken for a "haircut," termed a "bail-in," apparently to distinguish it from "bail-out."  In a bail-in, the depositors watch as large portions of their assets are simply seized and used to discharge the debts of the Bank itself.  In Cyprus, the first big hit was to the depositors in Laiki Bank, which ended up taking a haircut of 62.5%.  This was  done at the insistence of German bankers, incidentally, who otherwise would have been shouldering large losses all by themselves.   The depositors getting whacked included the notorious Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs who had parked billions in that bank. 

Bank #2 to take the bail-in route was the "Bank of Cyprus," which shaved their depositors by 47.5%.  The ones who took the largest losses were the Piskov brothers of Russia, who also owned the Uniastrum Bank of Russia, and were chums of Putin and other Russian gangsters.  Realistically, both Bank Laiki and Bank of Cyprus were doing fronting for the Ukrainian and Russian mobs, which made the thefts of capital a bit more palatable with the Germans.  But lots of ordinary folks got hit, and local Cypriot businesses, facing exchange controls and mainland suppliers demanding cash, folded as their cash and credit evaporated.  Cyprus got wrecked. 

Is the USA immune to bail-ins or other bank confiscations of depositor cash?  Nope, not at all.  I personally had an account with the TD Bank, which in the USA is HQ'ed apparently in New Jersey but owned and directed by its Canadian overlords, the Toronto-Dominion Bank, located on Bay Street in Toronto.  One fine day my entire account, containing over $462,000, simply vanished.  TD also refused to pay cashier's cheques drawn on TD's credit, in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.  No explanation was ever forthcoming.  Sue them?  But of course.  Meanwhile, some quite corrupt managers are busy spending my cash on their hookers and blow.   Moral:  depositors can take hits any time, banks - especially the ones controlled by Canadians - are corrupt and staffed by arrogant men. Was I naive?  But of course. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

This has turned into a negative, sniping thread so I shudder to comment fully.  I would say, however, that the above statement is a bit misleading.  It might (or might not) be "technically correct," but it is not the whole picture. 

I would suggest that a "negative interest rate" develops when the investor [here, bank depositor]  sees a net negative return on deposited capital, whatever the source.  That could be generated by fees, by actual interest payments, by externalities (such a government or bank confiscation) or some combination of causes.  To illustrate:

During the "Cold War" the German landed-gentry monied people were utterly terrified of the Soviet tank hordes sweeping across the North German Plain.  So, various rich folks would deposit their liquid wealth in Swiss  Banks, in the presumption that Swiss Franc accounts would maintain their value no matter what the Russian grunts were up to. The flood of money heading into Switzerland got out of control, the Swiss could not recycle those deposits into viable loans fast enough, so they simply placed a "capital deposit charge" on those accounts of 2%. 

That is to say, you the depositor paid the Swiss Banker 2% of your deposited capital every year, and you got zero interest.  So your net cost was a negative 2%.  This was in 1962.  

In the Cyprus banking crisis of 2012-2013, various classes of customer depositors were taken for a "haircut," termed a "bail-in," apparently to distinguish it from "bail-out."  In a bail-in, the depositors watch as large portions of their assets are simply seized and used to discharge the debts of the Bank itself.  In Cyprus, the first big hit was to the depositors in Laiki Bank, which ended up taking a haircut of 62.5%.  This was  done at the insistence of German bankers, incidentally, who otherwise would have been shouldering large losses all by themselves.   The depositors getting whacked included the notorious Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs who had parked billions in that bank. 

Bank #2 to take the bail-in route was the "Bank of Cyprus," which shaved their depositors by 47.5%.  The ones who took the largest losses were the Piskov brothers of Russia, who also owned the Uniastrum Bank of Russia, and were chums of Putin and other Russian gangsters.  Realistically, both Bank Laiki and Bank of Cyprus were doing fronting for the Ukrainian and Russian mobs, which made the thefts of capital a bit more palatable with the Germans.  But lots of ordinary folks got hit, and local Cypriot businesses, facing exchange controls and mainland suppliers demanding cash, folded as their cash and credit evaporated.  Cyprus got wrecked. 

Is the USA immune to bail-ins or other bank confiscations of depositor cash?  Nope, not at all.  I personally had an account with the TD Bank, which in the USA is HQ'ed apparently in New Jersey but owned and directed by its Canadian overlords, the Toronto-Dominion Bank, located on Bay Street in Toronto.  One fine day my entire account, containing over $462,000, simply vanished.  TD also refused to pay cashier's cheques drawn on TD's credit, in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.  No explanation was ever forthcoming.  Sue them?  But of course.  Meanwhile, some quite corrupt managers are busy spending my cash on their hookers and blow.   Moral:  depositors can take hits any time, banks - especially the ones controlled by Canadians - are corrupt and staffed by arrogant men. Was I naive?  But of course. 

I'm not a fan of TD either; although, I think one of my ETF's invests in them...

I think deposits in Canada are insured to ~$25,000 - that's it.

 

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

One fine day my entire account, containing over $462,000, simply vanished. 

TD also refused to pay cashier's cheques drawn on TD's credit, in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. 

That seems quite strange. Was this in America or Canada? 

The second part is confusing. Cashier's checks aren't drawn on "credit".

I had a problem during the credit crunch in 2009, with the acquiring bank refusing to accept a cashier's check from their own bank (acqiree). They used some obscure banking rule to wait 10 "business days" but managed to drag out the deposit for over three weeks, by unusual date accounting. It was a pain given that I was depositing to my business account and the non deposit caused checks to bounce. They had no compunction about charging me overdraft fees and knocked the company's credit score down quite a bit. 

Beyond your excellent examples would be the myriad South American banking fiascos, especially when you factor in currency inflation. It doesn't matter what you pretend the interest rate is when the purchasing power is going down exponentially faster. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

8 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

That seems quite strange. Was this in America or Canada? 

New York City, the epi-center of banker misconduct and criminal activity.  This is why you never want to do business with any New York bank, makes no real difference where the head office is, those bank outfits all draw from the same labor pool and the bankers move around, so the net result is the entire bank environment is one of stealing.  They can and will steal from you whenever then can.  I suspect the motive was that they knew I was from Holland, so that make me a "mark."

8 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

The second part is confusing. Cashier's checks aren't drawn on "credit".

You are correct, a cashier's cheque is purchased from the bank, for cash.  Typically a bank will not sell one to a person or party that is not a depositor, so in effect the source of funds flows from your account, which they debit to purchase the cheque.  So there you have a $300,000 cashier's cheque and you turn that over to your vendor and then the TD Bank in NY refuses to pay the cheque - never mind that they sold it to you.  Is that theft?  Of course it is.  they do it anyway. 

 

8 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

They used some obscure banking rule to wait 10 "business days"

There is no such "rule."

8 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

They had no compunction about charging me overdraft fees and knocked the company's credit score down quite a bit. 

I would advise readers who find themselves injured by these types of actions to sue that banker, both the bank and the banker personally. Ask for substantial damages, say $13 million.  Only the prospect of large losses to a Jury is going to ever change the behavior of bankers.  Certainly not the trump administration, not with Mnunchin running things there.  (OK,  Warren would, but she is not elected). 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 11/22/2019 at 3:10 AM, Enthalpic said:

Of course everything he could possibly want recently was on the government dime (including lasting changes to his buildings...) but even then before that there is/should be a massive amount of taxable benefits from his various companies. It's not like he checks in at his hotels....

NOTHING that Mr. Trump or the Trump Organization did to "his buildings" was on the taxpayer dime.   "Massive amount of taxable benefits.."?  NOTHING.   YOu sit there in your comfortable perch in Canada sniping away at the American President for what you perceive as misfeasances of his business and business practices, but you do not seem to grasp how the US tax system works.  In the USA any business enterprise can and does "deduct" from operating income various expenses related to that business.  And those expenses include "comp rooms," routinely issued by hotel properties.  Those are not taxpayer contributions, they are deductions from ordinary income to determine net taxable income.  Just because you, sitting in your condo in Edmonton, don't "approve," does not change anything.  The US tax system is not designed with your approvals in mind.   Do try to keep that in focus. Cheers.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

6 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

NOTHING that Mr. Trump or the Trump Organization did to "his buildings" was on the taxpayer dime.  

Disagree.  If you think they just left his 5th avenue place and the Florida resort untouched then you are delusional.  Guaranteed the secret service retrofitted those places with additional security features at taxpayer expense.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

7 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

NOTHING that Mr. Trump or the Trump Organization did to "his buildings" was on the taxpayer dime.   "Massive amount of taxable benefits.."?  NOTHING.   YOu sit there in your comfortable perch in Canada sniping away at the American President for what you perceive as misfeasances of his business and business practices, but you do not seem to grasp how the US tax system works.  In the USA any business enterprise can and does "deduct" from operating income various expenses related to that business.  And those expenses include "comp rooms," routinely issued by hotel properties.  Those are not taxpayer contributions, they are deductions from ordinary income to determine net taxable income.  Just because you, sitting in your condo in Edmonton, don't "approve," does not change anything.  The US tax system is not designed with your approvals in mind.   Do try to keep that in focus. Cheers.

There is also the questionable legalities and ethics of using the resort as a pseudo government building.

Are you a lobbyist, exec, or foreign diplomat and you want to put some words in the presidents ear? Book a luxury suite!

Normal staff meeting?  Fly in everyone and book a conference room!  Never mind that the government owns many meeting rooms.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Enthalpic

[Guest]

Worrying levels.

Cheers.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Guest

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Disagree.  If you think they just left his 5th avenue place and the Florida resort untouched then you are delusional.  Guaranteed the secret service retrofitted those places with additional security features at taxpayer expense.

You seem to have Trump confused with the Clintons, who famously bought that house in New York and "rented" the guest house to the Secret Service for double what the mortgage payment was. THAT'S called taxpayer expense. But CDS isn't a thang, only TDS 

[Boat + 1,324]

On 11/21/2019 at 6:10 PM, DayTrader said:

Oh, it's China v Rest of the World time? 

Must have been a whole 20 minutes since China was mentioned   - it's like Trump. Whatever the topic it'll turn into Trump and / or China. 

#eubad (my opinion) - I may have mentioned it ...?

Actually it is the Russians that are the root of all evil. Lol Even this site is probably influenced by Russian oil proceeds. Will anybody else join those 13 Russians and 24 Russian oiliguards who brazenly chose to meddle in US elections. 
Trump being an Russian olrgard busines fan had little negative to tweet. 
Congress who can’t agree on much forced these sanctions down Trumps throat. The art of the deal always includes Russian love and quid pro quo activity. Why do you think the Dems want to look at his taxes. Well that’s my conspiracy theory for the day. Cheers

List of current Russian sanctions.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10779.pdf

Edited November 24, 2019 by Boat

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Boat said:

Why do you think the Dems want to look at his taxes

The word 'desperation' comes to mind. And also 'nothing better to do that could benefit the country' apparently.

2 hours ago, Boat said:

Well that’s my conspiracy theory for the day.

DING. It's gone from TDS to RDS atleast lol. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

4 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

The word 'desperation' comes to mind. And also 'nothing better to do that could benefit the country' apparently.

 

Entertain the possibility he is corrupt - Nah #IllPlacedFaith

[Guest]

I have done. The little aspect of ''no evidence ever'' swayed me. You? Nah, still harping on about him, and have done for 3 years I'm guessing. Yawn.

He won. Get over it jeez (as you have another 5 years of it).

Why don't YOU entertain that he's not anywhere near as bad as everyone goes on about? If you could tear yourself away from fake news for a few weeks you'd see that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPEPSTEINTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPDIDN'TTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPKILLTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPHIMSELFTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMPTRUMP

#TDS2020

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Guest

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

32 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

I have done. The little aspect of ''no evidence ever'' swayed me.

Huh, plenty of evidence he does shady things.  Trump "university" (25 million settlement), $130,000 to a porn star, trump foundation fraud (found guilty, 2 million fine).

Edited November 24, 2019 by Enthalpic

[Guest]

So it's gone from 'corrupt' to 'shady' within minutes LOL. He is not in jail is he? No. That suggests to me nothing illegal. Your mileage may vary. 

Every politician in global history has been a saint and never lied about anything ever, you're right. Everyone until Trump. You don't see a slight hypocrisy or double standard in your thinking at all? I don't ever see you mentioning leaders round the world that are literally evil. You are obsessed with Trump and fake news. Who is this hero you would be voting for next year to take the USA forward just out of interest? 

Stop being bitter just because Trudeau has the personality of a cheese sandwich.