What Is Holding Back Geothermal Heating and Cooling?

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

1 hour ago, specinho said:

Since the technology has been existing for more than 60 years like the solar system, the problems encountered might largely be the same...??

allow me to set a frame of reference using general aircon concept:

1. hot air in house drawn in, condensed while in contact with coolant, heat lost, water lost, liquid coolant vaporized gaining heat. Less humid cooler air produced, blown back into the room.

2. Vapor coolant pumped to compressor and condenser. Liquid coolant reappears and recycled. Heat lost and released into the air outside the house.

Here are a little summary highlights that intrigue my interest. I'm just a fan of science, not an engineer. Pardon me if the technical accuracy is not there.........

 

 

This is like saying WHY is everyone using NG for heating instead of a NG powered HVAC system which would use 4X less NG than just burning NG.....   Why?  People do that which they already know and frankly, most are lazy and NG is cheap. 

EVERY house, business, etc should be heated by HVAC.  You will note that almost 100% of every BUSINESS already is.  Why?  They do accounting  daily.  Home owners?  Not so much. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

39 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

This is like saying WHY is everyone using NG for heating instead of a NG powered HVAC system which would use 4X less NG than just burning NG.....   Why?  People do that which they already know and frankly, most are lazy and NG is cheap. 

EVERY house, business, etc should be heated by HVAC.  You will note that almost 100% of every BUSINESS already is.  Why?  They do accounting  daily.  Home owners?  Not so much. 

What is the motive force of an NG "powered" HVAC system? Is the NG used instead of Freon substitute? Gas pressure drive? I'm confused

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

14 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

What is the motive force of an NG "powered" HVAC system? Is the NG used instead of Freon substitute? Gas pressure drive? I'm confused

Just an energy source.  You would be better off burning that NG in a giant gas turbine at highest efficiency, turning into electricity and then powering the HVAC unit, but you can get home NG powered(burns the NG) HVAC units which are still 3X more efficient than burning NG for heat... and you also get AC instead of only heat.  😀

Personally, I would never put in an NG powered HVAC Unit as it is not universal like an electric one, but when NG is FAR cheaper than electricity due to different factors.... 😀

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

I greatly like the idea of deep geothermal drilling, if only it were possible, and only if it were cost effective. Even if it's not amazing, I'd take it over wind and solar in a heartbeat since it won't consume 10k acres of land to power a single fertilizer plant. 

[George8944 + 128]

On 11/29/2019 at 5:14 AM, NickW said:

I have never once changed the water glycol mix and neither has my father or grand father.

As an off topic side comment,  the same goes for the water-glycol mix in the radiator of your car!   Water-glycol does not go bad.  What "wears out" is the additives like anti-rust, anti-acid.  There are over the counter replacements additives.  I just add them to my overflow container every 12-18 months and I'm good to go.   I haven't flushed my radiator or replaced a water pump since about 1998.   I usually keep my cars 10-15 years.  Try it.

[NickW + 2,714]

8 hours ago, George8944 said:

As an off topic side comment,  the same goes for the water-glycol mix in the radiator of your car!   Water-glycol does not go bad.  What "wears out" is the additives like anti-rust, anti-acid.  There are over the counter replacements additives.  I just add them to my overflow container every 12-18 months and I'm good to go.   I haven't flushed my radiator or replaced a water pump since about 1998.   I usually keep my cars 10-15 years.  Try it.

RE previous post:

'I have never once changed the water glycol mix and neither has my father or grand father' 

 

Footeab said that not me. I don't know why its quoted as me saying it

[George8944 + 128]

7 hours ago, NickW said:

Footeab said that not me. I don't know why its quoted as me saying it

No doubt it's another effect of climate change.  We blame every other anomaly on it, why not cloud based forums?

Have a good day!

[specinho + 467]

On 3/3/2020 at 5:42 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

This is like saying WHY is everyone using NG for heating instead of a NG powered HVAC system which would use 4X less NG than just burning NG.....   Why?  People do that which they already know and frankly, most are lazy and NG is cheap. 

EVERY house, business, etc should be heated by HVAC.  You will note that almost 100% of every BUSINESS already is.  Why?  They do accounting  daily.  Home owners?  Not so much. 

Not really........ you might  have neglected the reflective points in red............. to get a stable source of natural heat you have to worry if you are staying too near - any eruption might damage the house; or too far - the water or heat might have turned cold in the winter along the transporting route before heating up one's place............ In addition to the limited amount of heat source that you can harvest for a scale of community, or no?

On 3/4/2020 at 12:48 PM, KeyboardWarrior said:

I greatly like the idea of deep geothermal drilling, if only it were possible, and only if it were cost effective. Even if it's not amazing, I'd take it over wind and solar in a heartbeat since it won't consume 10k acres of land to power a single fertilizer plant. 

I'm not sure how it is there....... but usually, if it is hot spring flowing out, that area might be closer to any magma flowing point than ever or point of earthquake. If it is geyser, it might be close to division line of two earth plates, or no? In other words, any drill might provoke the unspeakable horror. Not to mention DEEP drilling, no?

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

2 hours ago, specinho said:

 

I'm not sure how it is there....... but usually, if it is hot spring flowing out, that area might be closer to any magma flowing point than ever or point of earthquake. If it is geyser, it might be close to division line of two earth plates, or no? In other words, any drill might provoke the unspeakable horror. Not to mention DEEP drilling, no?

You sound like anti-frackers. I'm talking about deep drilling in areas that aren't thermally active; to depths where heat is sufficient for power generation. 

[specinho + 467]

22 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

You sound like anti-frackers. I'm talking about deep drilling in areas that aren't thermally active; to depths where heat is sufficient for power generation. 

You might have misheard it...... Magma and hot water drilling certainly can't be equate with oil and gas drilling......... The hot larva and hot water ........................ might full of issues e.g. viscosity, larva harden when cold, what to do with it after they are out of the core etc...........

Edited March 7, 2020 by specinho

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

11 hours ago, specinho said:

You might have misheard it...... Magma and hot water drilling certainly can't be equate with oil and gas drilling......... The hot larva and hot water ........................ might full of issues e.g. viscosity, larva harden when cold, what to do with it after they are out of the core etc...........

Give me empirical evidence to support your claims of potential disaster. It also doesn't seem as though you understand the system I'm suggesting. You don't run lava through a heat exchanger, that would be retarded. You pump coolant into the ground and let it absorb heat, then you transfer that heat to the turbine loop. 

Also, why are you typing in green? Why are you talking like that?

Edited March 8, 2020 by KeyboardWarrior

[BenFranklin'sSpectacles + 762]

On 11/27/2019 at 3:57 PM, ronwagn said:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/great-energy-challenge/2013/10-myths-about-geothermal-heating-and-cooling/#close

Why are we not hearing more about geothermal heating and cooling, especially for very cold and hot areas? Mass use would reduce prices. It is especially efficient in areas with shallow groundwater. RCW

 

GREAT ENERGY CHALLENGE

10 Myths About Geothermal Heating and Cooling

It's still expensive. 

There's at least one effort to reduce costs:

https://dandelionenergy.com/

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:48 AM, specinho said:

Not really........ you might  have neglected the reflective points in red............. to get a stable source of natural heat you have to worry if you are staying too near - any eruption might damage the house; or too far - the water or heat might have turned cold in the winter along the transporting route before heating up one's place............ In addition to the limited amount of heat source that you can harvest for a scale of community, or no?

I'm not sure how it is there....... but usually, if it is hot spring flowing out, that area might be closer to any magma flowing point than ever or point of earthquake. If it is geyser, it might be close to division line of two earth plates, or no? In other words, any drill might provoke the unspeakable horror. Not to mention DEEP drilling, no?

Auckland New Zealand and Iceland seem to have managed to make it work to some extent but I am not aware of the details. We had a nice warm spa time in Auckland courtesy of the nearby geothermal pools. 

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

What's holding geothermal drilling back? Perhaps the fact that it can cause human induced earthquakes?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-does-geothermal-drilling-trigger-earthquakes/

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

This is another confused thread. The lead post was about ground-source heat pumps, which are also confusingly called "geotheremal" heat pump systems. But several of the follow-on posts are about utility-scale geothermal systems that use very hot underground rock to produce steam to drive turbines to produce electricity. These have essentially nothing to do with ground-source heat pumps.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

On 3/6/2020 at 9:48 AM, specinho said:

Not really........ you might  have neglected the reflective points in red............. to get a stable source of natural heat you

Not really.... you need to do some VERY simple math.  Everyone can do geothermal HVAC EVERYWHERE in the world, Especially up north, but the upfront costs are higher.  Down south you may have to do solar collection during summer and heat the ground, but this then works in all locations.