How much cheaper is Russian natural gas for Germany than LNG from the United States with the NordStream 2 pipeline?

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 12/29/2019 at 6:06 AM, ronwagn said:

Russian pipelines can be destroyed very easily as can anyones. They are virtually indefensible even against small groups of terrorists or whoever. LNG can be delivered just as surely as piped gas. Germany and Europe is greatly weakening itself by cooperating with Russia and not investing in its own military defense forces. 

Ron I agree with the terrorist part, but equally a torpedo or a limpet mine on an LNG vessel wouldn't end well!

Please don't include the UK in investment in defence as we pay our way in NATO (one of the very few admittedly)

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Ron I agree with the terrorist part, but equally a torpedo or a limpet mine on an LNG vessel wouldn't end well!

Please don't include the UK in investment in defence as we pay our way in NATO (one of the very few admittedly)

Rob, I haven't included Great Britain in Europe since the people voted for Brexit, I only wish it had been consummated quickly. 

My main concern is that Europe, and every other area develop natural gas pipelines and LNG terminals as needed. That includes New England. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by ronwagn
addition

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 12/29/2019 at 5:18 AM, Marcin said:

Try to prevent flow of  Russian Oil or natural gas you would be first one to do it succesfully in history. It is under Baltic Sea patrolled by Russian submarines. Only state actors have such capabilities. It is simply not worth to start war with Russia or US over pipeline, everybody knows this. It is as vulnerable  as White House or Kremlin but somehow nobody tries.

Anyone can sink explosives right over the line at several points. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 12/29/2019 at 5:59 AM, Marcin said:

Also Germans does not believe in Trump intentions. Blocking Nord Stream 2 just 1 month before completion, when all costs where already incurred is not the way to treat ally. Bona fide reaction would be to block it 2 years ago before undersea part was constructed.

I watched German news recently. It is really sad but German political scene is now UNITED against United States in defense of German energy sovereignty. Merkel is gaining easy points here, I watched her speaking in Bundestag.

I think this will also negatively affect decision relating to Huawei.

We will never the less know soon, in about 30-45 days when both cases: Huawei and Nord Stream 2 will find its resolution

It is really too bad that Germany has not used its own natural gas rather than rely on Russia or anyone else IMHO. They were snookered by the leftist propaganda machine in my opinion. Communists and socialists have always been a force in Germany since Karl Marx. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

12 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Anyone can sink explosives right over the line at several points. 

Just a thought but a gas pipeline isn't complicated, its pipe with flange connectors, gaskets and studbolts to seal the joint, with the occasional valve every so often.

The down time to replace a "blown up" section of pipeline shouldn't be lengthy.

i know this pipe is subsea so not like repairing  land pipe but its relatively shallow water so should be fixed fairly easily.

A terrorist attack on an LNG tanker and its game over for the load and the ship. Not saying the LNG would explode as this is probably unlikely but the ship would be holed and sink and bye bye LNG.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

5 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

It is really too bad that Germany has not used its own natural gas rather than rely on Russia or anyone else IMHO. They were snookered by the leftist propaganda machine in my opinion. Communists and socialists have always been a force in Germany since Karl Marx. 

Yep agreed Ron

This was a political decision not an economical one by Merkel and her cronies

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 1/6/2020 at 3:21 PM, Bob D said:

It's no surprise Russia finally meshed its natural resources and its proximity to Europe. But it takes a naive European populace and government to think Russia is a long term solution to anything other than Russia's success. Russia will eventually have a massive hold on Europe's energy security. Russia will eventually do to Europe what it did to Ukraine. Does anyone not believe this is a likely outcome?? And this outcome is exactly what US diplomacy has been fighting against. The odds were very low that the energy resources of Russia and the European demand center could be kept apart. The economics are simply too favorable to stop.  

During the Cold war and the China bubble, when the US needed ME oil supplies, Europe played for its mercantile benefit with lopsided trade barriers and tariffs against the US, and used VAT to take costs off exporters and socialize them instead of raising funds with income taxes. It is in effect a tariff. The new US proposition, now that it does not need oil nor an alliance against the Soviets is that Europe join it in an alliance against China//Russia and that trade terms will be in favor of US mercantile interests while offering access to US LNG at Henry Hub based pricing rather than the much higher oil equivalent price indexing.

This has been offered to individual countries to direct the EC trade negotiating team, rather than respect the EC's trade authority as representing all of Europe. That, and the US unwillingness to cooperate with their tax grabbing plan via OECD's tax harmonization scheme - essentially a tax cartel to skin what little Europeans get to keep of their earnings, has pushed the top European countries' leaderships into a frenzy. That US has moved in to Poland and Romania to set up new forward bases against Russian expansion got them that much angrier.

In any case, the EC is actively encouraging and even funding LNG port facilities for supplying Ukraine and central Europe from alternative sources. Even without a US deal, They are happy to diversify away from Russian nat gas and its many attached strings. 

The irresistible attraction of Western Europe's NG demand and Russian supply will always be there as it always had been, but now it will result in a much smaller revenue stream for Russia and much reduced leverage.   .  

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 1/9/2020 at 11:32 AM, ronwagn said:

It is really too bad that Germany has not used its own natural gas rather than rely on Russia or anyone else IMHO. They were snookered by the leftist propaganda machine in my opinion. Communists and socialists have always been a force in Germany since Karl Marx. 

The German labor movement and socialism predates Marx by a generation, and was started by Hegel's students. It was part of the political drivers to unify Germany. It is an intellectual disease at the heart of German thinking. They should replace their political class with engineers.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

9 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

The German labor movement and socialism predates Marx by a generation, and was started by Hegel's students. It was part of the political drivers to unify Germany. It is an intellectual disease at the heart of German thinking. They should replace their political class with engineers.

Unfortunately the technocrats would be run by globalists, socialists, communists, or statists regardless. You only have to look at he manifesto of the Green Party to understand that fact. 

https://campaigns.greenparty.org.uk/manifesto/