IRAN / USA

[remake it + 288]

22 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Your entire thesis is all wet. I pointed out massive death and you hand wave it away and pretend it doesn't count because you were thinking about oil. Too bad you're still wrong. No wonder you block me, my intellect is too much for your weak ego to handle. No worries, remake it will read it to you. Lol

Does "logic" exist in your queer world where anyone can counter your lists with the Crusades, the plague, the Mongol invasions, the influenza pandemic, and any other event where lots of people died?

[Papillon + 485]

Sir do you think you could try to refrain from quoting Mr Smith as it makes the blocking feature rather pointless. That said I do enjoy reading of his yet again self - proclaimed apparent intellect while conversing with apparent robots. The irony of the 'weak ego' section also was a side splitter as his continuous need to inform the website of his alleged wisdom is very telling. Thankyou very much. 

By the way I adore the logic that this is all part of the Chinese military but they forgot the feature presumably of us upvoting each other, and this is viewed by the 'intellect' here as us giving each other away. Agreeing with somebody must translate to AI of course.

It seems quite a flaw in the system Mr Smith but I am sure users' conclusions are sound as ever. You could consider that you're wrong on occasion but it appears this is not a trait you possess sir. You would call this intellect, I call it arrogance. Good day. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Papillon

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Marcin said:

It is really a miracle for me that Middle Eastern countries were allowed to keep oil for themselves, that they were not invaded and colonized. I think only rivalry of superpowers in Cold War era allowed their independence.

Post WWI idiocy of the League of Nations forced by Wilson down on the imperial powers as a step away from the imperial system towards an open free trade system. So they were given "mandates" so they could continue controlling the oil, while the US oil companies took the leases for what is Saudi Aramco today from under the Brit's nose thanks to the elder Philby who advised Ibn Saud to his benefit rather than his country's. The entirely synthetic division of the ex Ottoman empire into political entities was made necessary by the pretense of legalism by the League of Nations with its focus on mandatory ultimate independence for the colonies of all imperial powers. So they created "influence zones" thinking they could keep the oil within their empires. Same continued till 1956 and the US hard line against taking back control of the Suez canal after it was nationalized. So the entire oil industry in the ME was nationalized over time, but for Saudi, which nationalized it with an official purchase transaction using loans from the US. Why was this allowed? Mostly Soviet appeasement, as Egypt, Iraq and Syria became Soviet client states. Saudi remained a US client, however tenuously, as was Iran till the Shia uprising, apparently aided with French and Soviet support (I don't know for a fact what French participation was), thinking that possibly Iran would be aligned like Iraq and Syria etc. rather than go its own wild way.

It is because of the American hope for free trade vs. colonial trade systems that these countries were created. It is fear of Soviet retaliation that allowed these countries to nationalize oil resources without repercussions. And now we are where we are.. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Papillon said:

Precisely sir. What rather bores me is the hypocritical notion and sarcasm of some here, who suggest ''maybe we should leave them to it'' as if the majority of these nations have asked for aid in the first place. At first they agree that they should leave them to it, and admit these are endless wars, with endless casualties now that have lasted centuries. Within minutes they appear happy to have another war.

When the people of Hong Kong for example actually seemed to ask for help, the USA did nothing for months and even then eventually signed a bill that Mr Trump had no choice but to go along with. If this had been happening in some sort of autonomous region in Africa for example, and an area that had oil, the USA would have been there to 'help' within days. Hong Kong however has no oil, but does have the Chinese army next door. It appears the respond to aid will correspond to oil, and if you do not even ask for aid, well, you have oil, so we are coming anyway.

Similarly I would invite you to ponder and imagine that the Middle East itself is a region in the centre of Africa, and has no oil, but endless conflict. I have a feeling there would not be three decades of conflict or any involvement from America whatsoever. It is the alleged care of the region involved that I find ridiculous, especially when Americans here have admitted they would not be there in the Middle East if there were no oil, while continually patting each other on the back as if they are heroes, while their young men come home in bodybags every few years.

We can add to the list the Germans and the Holocaust and the Belgians in the Congo, and the French in Viet Nam and throughout Africa, Japan in China and Korea. The English in S. Africa and Somalia and India. All of which the US did not do in its history as an imperial power. The communist dictatorships and the Nazis were by far the most murderous, and on a wholly enormous scale. Anyone who smears the US with these kind of accusations had better not be supporting any of the countries on the rogue's list as having the capacity to take a moral stance, particularly the unreformed ones that have yet to take historical responsibility and detach from the social concepts that brought them to the point of mass murder over class allegiance and genocide.

There is no moral equivalence between what the US does and what motivates it and your claim. The US intervenes when the cost to itself is not high and when a benefit, geopolitical or economic is available. You can't expect the US to intervene where it has no interests.. And the fact of interests does not negate a moral driver when there is one. The US, with N. American oil sufficiency can leave the ME to blow each other up and butcher the large minorities in each of the countries. But that is not what would happen alone, Europe China and SE Asia all depend on that energy for their survival. They would definitely come in and take over everything they can and leave the locals to fight among themselves without access to oil funds. 

[Otis11 + 551]

On 1/4/2020 at 6:59 PM, remake it said:

Sir, an excellent reminder of what can be done by just a few Middle-eastern men on a mission!

Seriously? How can you joke about a tragedy like 9/11? And Papillon giving that a purple cup?

As Tom said - take note.

On 1/4/2020 at 7:08 PM, frankfurter said:

So by your definition, when the USA closed the Russian embassies in the USA and forced the staff to exit the USA, the USA is now at war with Russia? 

Frankfurter - you know that is different. The US didn't attack the Russian Embassy - we gave them formal notice to leave. They were then given time to extract or destroy their intelligence and safely extract their people.

Attacking an Embassy is hardly the same thing.

On 1/4/2020 at 8:25 PM, remake it said:

It seems that if the USA claims it, then it is so, and thereafter they can commit whatever crimes they like because they make the rules and that is the end of the story.

Seriously? 0R0 put together an explanation showing, in fact, this is not true and the process was followed. Quoting him and saying this as a response? Please re-read and check your reading comprehension.

On 1/4/2020 at 9:37 PM, remake it said:

Except he has presented his case and you are simply wishing for an outcome that may or may not happen.

He's actually been strategically and VERY POLITICALLY BLOCKED from presenting his case... or any facts of the case whatsoever.

(Again - coming from someone who is very much not a Republican. Nor a Democrat.)

On 1/4/2020 at 10:27 PM, Papillon said:

Well, unless reversed sir and they don't want to believe certain claims, then it is 'fake news' and everything is now false. The key phrase to remember, like this very site in fact, is 'pick and choose'. 

God Bless America for these morals, where American users here laughed at a recent comment here about 'Why did God put American oilfields in the Middle East?'  - Please ponder that American christian thinking for a moment.

And in related news.

With respect, Papillon. 

Your bias is showing. For weeks now you've been bashing this site and the people on it relentlessly and indiscriminately. As quoted above, Remake it's response was completely trash as he clearly did not comprehend the post he was quoting, yet you support it. I'd like to request you kindly use those critical thinking skills you initially applied to everyone else you disagreed with to those that you agree with as well. Bias is a funny thing...

Not sure what comment your referring to with the second part as I must have missed it, but saying this shows 'American Christian Thinking' in the context you've shown - I can say clearly and with confidence it does not. I could see the comment as biting sarcasm or 'exposing a truth by humor' - that was lost in translation, but regardless - even if some actually did as you claim, that hardly allows you to generalize to all "American Christians". You've attacked others for making the same generalization about other nations - please hold yourself to the same standard.

22 hours ago, Zhong Lu said:

Ah yes, endless wars in the Middle East, exactly what Trump campaigned on.

Zhong - Seriously, I've seen pretty much this exact comment everywhere today. Trump has shown incredible restraint in NOT starting a war (aka keeping his campaign promise). Also, he didn't start one now. Correct me if I'm wrong, but IRAN assaulted a US Embassy as the first step, no? This is an act of war he did not start. Then He took out a KNOWN TERRORIST that happened to be an official for a HOSTILE FOREIGN POWER. They responded - not surprising. We're still not in a war (yet), and even if we do get into a war, there's grounds to say Iran was the actual initiator. Even if we get in a war and do agree that the US started it - how can you site a campaign promise in a highly dynamic situation like this and say 'he broke his promise' after all the restraint and efforts to avoid a war? Really? You believe that's a genuine criticism?

5 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Tell us oh wise one why the national oil company in Saudi Arabia is called Saudi Aramco? What do the letters "am" stand for in that name and why? 

Without American know-how Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East would be running around on their camels killing each other over not kneeling right during prayer time. 

That said it was a joke (I missed it wherever it was), and was clearly meant tongue in cheek. You weren't so humor challenged before you were outed. Remake it is funnier than you now, perhaps you need to read Sybil for some pointers. 

The US was not involved when the Soviets killed, what, 40 million of their own citizens

The US was not involved when the Chinese killed, 60 million

The US was not involved when the Cambodians killed 4 million

The US was not involved when the Burmese killed 2 million

The US was not involved when the Bangladesh killed 2 million

The US was not involved when the Nigerians killed 1.5 million

The US was not involved when the Ottomans killed 1.5 million etc. 

But yeah, it's our fault if we try to stop these monsters by "breaking a few eggs" and in your psychotic dichotomy it's our fault if we don't stop these monsters, like it's only the US of A that carries the responsibility for the whole damn planet. Nice try buckwheat, but we don't have to play your game. 

 

Where was Papillon 'outed'? Outed for what? Did I miss something?
(There's been a notable change in his posting... no idea what caused it...)

And seriously - these comments about 'this has nothing to do about oil' are ridiculous, from both sides. The post being attacked is usually making a credible point responding to something someone else posted... and is relevant. Same as the attacks of 'whataboutism' (which sometimes aren't even whataboutism as accused).

This bickering is seriously making this forum useless... 

[remake it + 288]

11 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

Seriously? How can you joke about a tragedy like 9/11? And Papillon giving that a purple cup?

It was not a joke and one wonders what planet you are on if you cannot determine the serious impact which can be delivered by a few disaffected men supposedly working to a higher cause.

11 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

Please re-read and check your reading comprehension.

Do you actually know what an extra-judicial assassination means?

Edited January 9, 2020 by remake it
check there are no more commas today as Day Trader is interpreting

[Tom Nolan + 2,443]

On 1/4/2020 at 4:21 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

 

Mike Pence is such a liar!

The United States Vice President Mike Pence tweeted:  (Suleimani)”Assisted in the clandestine travel to Afghanistan of 10 of the 12 terrorists who carried out the September 11 terrorist attacks in the United States.”  12:05 pm Jan 3

 

5 Minute Video – The Official 9/11 Story – (with transcipts/sources)  https://youtu.be/yuC_4mGTs98?list=PLxnlfHUbqLkM7rK43i3PNtcPH-LA-91pZ

[Tom Nolan + 2,443]

On 1/4/2020 at 6:42 PM, James Regan said:

Those nano-thermitic explosives in the Twin Towers and also World Trade Center Building 7 sure did a number.    https://www.ae911truth.org/

[remake it + 288]

6 minutes ago, Tom Nolan said:

Those nano-thermitic explosives in the Twin Towers and also World Trade Center Building 7 sure did a number.    https://www.ae911truth.org/

Hidden in plane sight.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

26 minutes ago, Tom Nolan said:

Mike Pence is such a liar!

 

The United States Vice President Mike Pence tweeted:  (Suleimani)”Assisted in the clandestine travel to Afghanistan of 10 of the 12 terrorists who carried out the September 11 terrorist attacks in the United States.”  12:05 pm Jan 3

 

5 Minute Video – The Official 9/11 Story – (with transcipts/sources)  https://youtu.be/yuC_4mGTs98?list=PLxnlfHUbqLkM7rK43i3PNtcPH-LA-91pZ

 

Heh heh, I've actually posted that YouTube video on this forum.  Excellent video.

Personally, I don't like Pence.  But the reason I posted that screencap of Pence's Twitter was to try to gently red pill lurkers here with an overall view that contradicts MSM blather.

 

Perhaps you will like this (unconfirmed but very plausible) meme a bit better...

 

[Tom Nolan + 2,443]

8 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Heh heh, I've actually posted that YouTube video on this forum.  Excellent video.

Personally, I don't like Pence.  But the reason I posted that screencap of Pence's Twitter was to try to gently red pill lurkers here with an overall view that contradicts MSM blather.

 

Perhaps you will like this (unconfirmed but very plausible) meme a bit better.

Great job Tom!

These are wild times.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,188]

3 hours ago, Papillon said:

Similarly I would invite you to ponder and imagine that the Middle East itself is a region in the centre of Africa, and has no oil, but endless conflict. I have a feeling there would not be three decades of conflict or any involvement from America whatsoever. It is the alleged care of the region involved that I find ridiculous, especially when Americans here have admitted they would not be there in the Middle East if there were no oil, while continually patting each other on the back as if they are heroes, while their young men come home in bodybags every few years.

??? Did you not pay any attention to the cold war.....

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

8 hours ago, Papillon said:

Whereas deaths caused by American hands and weapons are of course the definition of peace. This has also been done 'over the ages'.

I will remind users yet again of the 'joke' by a user recently that said ''why did God put American oilfields in the Middle East?'' This received many laughs from American people here. Think about that for a moment sir, as you consider yourselves the beacons of peace, while other users here seem to think it is amusing to go to war again and again. How many of your fellow citizens have died there now by the way? Ponder that if you will while pondering some Americans' sense of humour here regarding the deaths of their fellow citizens.

I hope the oil was worth it though, another little aspect of the constant wars, which even some Americans here have admitted is the key issue while acknowledging you would not be there at all if oil were not involved. What morals. These would be the same users who stated you should leave the Middle East to it, and who also mentioned how much oil the USA has now. I guess a little more oil can do no harm? 

Maybe if you do as you suggest you can indeed 'make America great again'. As everyone has an obsession with China here, it is clear they have rocketed economically in the last thirty years. What was America doing for all this time sir? The answer is going to war again and again and again, and 'killing and mutilating' while talking of peace.*

I am sure this time will be the last time though, or shall we have this same discussion in a few years do you think? Seeing as many here like to say that history is a good indicator of the future, what does the US' recent history in the Middle East tell us? Some here seem to think it was successful which I find beyond ridiculous. I fear you are yet another user I must block. America, as always, is utterly flawless, whereas 'you guys' as you say, do nothing but kill. What a joke. Good day sir. 

*China no doubt was, in the meantime, developing its infamous bot system as a countermeasure to global power? 

Red arrows, awarded for the reading of facts, go here    ---->>>

 

And once again you have have failed to present your suggestions as to how the present situation should be de-escalated or remedied.

Furthermore, perhaps you could stay on topic as China, to the best of my knowledge, is not a participant in the present confrontation between the US and Iran.

Papillion, in my opinion, you started off well in this forum, but lately you seem bound and determined to lose all credibility.

[Papillon + 485]

41 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

How can you joke about a tragedy like 9/11? And Papillon giving that a purple cup?

It was not a joke sir, it was a mere reference to what two planes can do within an hour if they wish to, and the implications of your relationship with the Middle East in general. The 'jokes' came from your fellow citizens if you peruse the threads with regard to assuming oil in the region is yours and given by God. Did you grace all of those posts with a red arrow as you have mine sir? Or do your young men dying there every few years have a comical element as your own countrymen imply here? 

46 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

Where was Papillon 'outed'? Outed for what? Did I miss something?
(There's been a notable change in his posting... no idea what caused it...)

Indeed sir and my apologies but I have been accused of being a 'handler' of Remake It by Mr Smith as I agree with him on occasion. Much of the forum does too, but it is I and Marcin, also accused, who are the key handlers. The rationale for this is because I agree with him as I say, and it appears alternate views cannot possibly come from a human being or they must originate in China, as a military operation, as they disagree with Mr Smith. I do not appreciate this sir but hope you see the comedy as I do of the entire forum conversing with us still. Imagine if you will all of us sat in line, hoping to sway the views of an oil based forum with few views to a pro China stance allegedly, as this is what he pictures. This is easier than the idea of someone having a different view in his eyes. Ponder that a moment.

32 minutes ago, remake it said:

 you cannot determine the serious impact which can be delivered by a few disaffected men supposedly working to a higher cause.

Precisely. You see, I agreed with him. How dare I? 

55 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

hardly allows you to generalize to all "American Christians".

It was a reference to your nation's main belief sir and with respect when your own President ends every speech with ''and God Bless America'' and presumably swears on the bible before taking office, that would suggest to me a christian nation. Either way, again, the joke was about God putting American oil in the Middle East, so christian or not, what is your reaction to your countrymen finding that amusing? 

59 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

Your bias is showing.    As quoted above, Remake it's response was completely trash as he clearly did not comprehend the post he was quoting, yet you support it.     Bias is a funny thing...

Why exactly was it trash sir? Because you personally did not agree with it? I agree, bias is a funny thing.

With respect sir, Papillon. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Otis11 said:

Where was Papillon 'outed'? Outed for what? Did I miss something?
(There's been a notable change in his posting... no idea what caused it...)

And seriously - these comments about 'this has nothing to do about oil' are ridiculous, from both sides. The post being attacked is usually making a credible point responding to something someone else posted... and is relevant. Same as the attacks of 'whataboutism' (which sometimes aren't even whataboutism as accused).

This bickering is seriously making this forum useless... 

I pointed out months ago that remake it was a bot. I kept the pressure on, fully expecting the humans behind remake it to show up. Papillion is one of those humans. You can look at his post history and see a dramatic negative slant after I outed him. If he were a poker player I'd have all his money due to his "tells". Pointing that out to him pushed him over the edge with me. He pretends to have blocked me, but still is connected at the hip with remake it. Not quite sock puppetry but similar. 

 

I was the one who introduced the term "whataboutism" to this forum. Since then, like a child with a new toy, Papillion has been playing with the term, although he clearly still doesn't understand its meaning. 

[Papillon + 485]

Mr Buckland, I happened to see your comment offline due to the blocking. I apologise for bringing up China in a thread. This is a rare occurence here and no other user has brought the nation up off topic in a thread ever have they? ''Correct?''

Bias truly is a funny thing.

[Papillon + 485]

On 1/5/2020 at 11:02 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Guys, what is with the ‘slant drilling’ bullshit? If you work in the oilfield then you know that ‘slant drilling’ is an inaccurate term. Do they erect the derrick or raise the mast at an angle?

It is ‘directional drilling’, and that is not initiated at the surface.

You guys know this!!!

On 1/5/2020 at 1:58 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

Hmmm....even in the 80’s they were drilling directionally with UBHO’s and bent subs (granted, in its infancy). I wonder what criteria called for a slanted rig? 

 

This of course is related very much to the conflict between Iran and the USA is it sir? 

Yet again, one rule for some, one rule for others. I appreciate users proving my points every few minutes but trust me, I do not need the help. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Papillon

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, Papillon said:

Mr Buckland, I happened to see your comment offline due to the blocking. I apologise for bringing up China in a thread. This is a rare occurence here and no other user has brought the nation up off topic in a thread ever have they? ''Correct?''

Bias truly is a funny thing.

So I guess ‘bad manners’ by others justifies you doing the same?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, Papillon said:

On 1/5/2020 at 11:02 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Guys, what is with the ‘slant drilling’ bullshit? If you work in the oilfield then you know that ‘slant drilling’ is an inaccurate term. Do they erect the derrick or raise the mast at an angle?

It is ‘directional drilling’, and that is not initiated at the surface.

You guys know this!!!

On 1/5/2020 at 1:58 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

Hmmm....even in the 80’s they were drilling directionally with UBHO’s and bent subs (granted, in its infancy). I wonder what criteria called for a slanted rig? 

 

This of course is related very much to the conflict between Iran and the USA is it sir? 

Yet again, one rule for some, one rule for others. I appreciate users proving my points every few minutes but trust me, I do not need the help. 

If you look back, someone mentioned ‘slant’ drilling on the Iraq/Kuwait border as a justification for Iraq invading Kuwait. I was simply pursuing this technical, oil related, issue.

[Papillon + 485]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I was simply pursuing this technical, oil related, issue.

I apologise then sir. May I then remind you of the rather lengthy though hilarious conversation you had with DayTrader regarding hot dogs for example in a thread about Prince Andrew? I jest, but my point merely was that threads go off the rails all the time, and yet I presume you do not call others out about it, as you did to me, which presumably you did due to taking issue with previous posts of mine within the thread? Therefore I found the bias comment from the previous user a little ironic, that was all. I meant no offence.

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So I guess ‘bad manners’ by others justifies you doing the same?

Not at all, you are correct. Fortunately there are certain levels I will not 'stoop' to that others do, though this may be purely due to age and little more I fear.

I apologise if I caused offence sir but I can only detail the world as I see it and have seen it. My intent here other than conversation and interest is to attempt, after seeing such strong stances in certain areas, to present the other side of the coin if possible for reasoned debate, and all the more so if I disagree with the general opinion of the average user here. I am not trying to sway the opinion of intelligent adults and professionals, that would be ludicrous, or to simply argue. What I am trying to do is highlight the blind spots shall we say that people may not be considering, due to a bias, which is not necessarily negative by any means, but is rather common in mankind itself. I trust this clarifies my position a little more?

My posts have changed dramatically I admit due to this bot nonsense and I do not see what more I can do to, or why I even should, prove otherwise. I chat with @DayTrader a great deal here, as we share an interest in Buddhism among other things, and it was he who suggested using 'comedy for others, rather than getting angry, which just turns inward to the self', and I fear my sarcasm ever since here may have gone overboard.

Incidentally, we may meet in person in a few weeks. Maybe this will remove these ridiculous accusations, presuming of course I do not wear my Chinese military uniform? You see sir? He is a bad influence! 

Anyway thankyou for your reply and your honesty sir.

With respect, Papillon. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Papillon

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Papillon said:

I apologise for bringing up China in a thread.

Yep this is a big No No now Papi coz of Iran kicking off LOL. Don't worry though, just wait an hour or so and Marcin will be all over that shit again. He can't help himself but you gotta be quick as he thinks he only spends an hour a day here. 

1 hour ago, Papillon said:

presuming of course I do not wear my Chinese military uniform? You see sir? He is a bad influence! 

Hahahaha no I'm not, that's absolute gold 😅

Papillon, remember you gotta do it in waves ...    Guys I have told Papi to go for it with the banter as I think he's hilarious but this whole bot shit and back and forth etc is getting stupid now. You know this is true when I of all people am telling people to chill !!  

I still maintain that it is more mad Ward to keep chatting with Remake if you honestly believe this stuff than the idea of bots being here at all. Just block him, done. And Ward, he ain't no handler, I think it's madness. You're both nice guys, this is just stupid honestly. I get that you're annoyed and would post long stuff like Papi but you can't coz of your shit phone lol but that ain't his fault.

On 12/18/2019 at 10:25 PM, Ward Smith said:

So I blog on this old and weak mobile device, specifically to handicap me.

***translation ...  ''My intelligence is so vast that I would confuse you all so I choose to have a shit phone.''

And Papi, remember, you gotta do it in waves. The odd dig and banter, then boom go in for the kill LOL. Trust me it's easy. But it's gotta be on and off, gradual, subtle, then BOOOOM !!!   Plus they are mainly Americans. It's not their fault. Let's let Doug have the hotdog shall we?

Otherwise it just turns to arguing and I'm not a fan of that. You don't see me doing that ever do you? Thought not.

What's that you say? The voice of reason?

Yeah I guess I am in a way, good point. 

Anyway chill. Remember Papi, no god or guns or apparently foods. They won't listen   , but if you do make it subtle.

<cough> frankfurter

Damn this cough is getting worse ... 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Guest
Ward has a shit phone quote.

[John Foote + 1,135]

10 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Without American know-how Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East would be running around on their camels killing each other over not kneeling right during prayer time. 

The US was not involved when the Cambodians killed 4 million

The Brits or the French would have happily helped Saudi Arabia. A pre WW2 USA didn't try and police the world, just keep the Western Hemisphere clear of European meddling. KIng Abdulaziz picked an American company over the Brits because we didn't bother with anything but the oil

Cambodia was definitely a by-product of USA actions. In '69 to '70 our bombing the countryside, supporting an invasion, and undermining the existing government, pretty much completely destabilized the country. What filled the power gap was seriously evil. America didn't make ISIS, but our 2003 invasion and what it set in place certainly enabled it.

 The USA, IMHO, greatly improved the overall world in the post WW2 world. Have we done much in the MIddle East that hasn't made it worse? Probably not since Desert Storm. To apply a Lyle Lovette line, for the most part "She (USA) wasn't good, but she had good intentions." 

[PE Scott + 563]

I think the drama has more or less subsided. A flash in the pan. All bark, no bite. I hope some of you at least made a bunch of money off all this nonsense.

Next time someone fires a missile in the ME, maybe people won't get so excited. "WW3" "Trump started another endless war"......I think the MSM wants a war in the ME in order to discredit the POTUS more than Bolton wants to kick some ass. That has to say something. 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by PE Scott

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

And once again you have failed to present your suggestions as to how the present situation should be de-escalated or remedied.

In fairness mate, why should he provide solutions to American problems? I don't see many ideas or solutions from Americans here, I'm seeing a lot of ''go, go, go'' and ''it was an act of war damnit'' and all guns blazing and ''yay, potential war''. You want him to say what he would do because he said a load of things you guys didn't like, so you think if he's so opinionated he should provide answers to this latest mess.

This is like when we all had the gun conversations and people started saying to me ''well what do you suggest?'' As I said then, not my problem, and you've had 200 years to sort this shit out. This is exactly the same, except it's 30 years of being in the ME instead. You tell me what your plan is. Presumably you all had one? This ain't at you, but 'America' I mean. 

America asking others ''well what do you suggest?'' tells me 1. you have made mistakes, 2. there was no clear plan, 3. you don't know how it's gonna escalate either, 4. you don't know what you would / should do either, (but whatever Trump says you will go with?). Numbers 1,2 and 3 are in the past and today, 4 is obviously just today. 

Also considering no one is really suggesting a remedy tells me people maybe here think this is all great and no remedy is even needed? Scott has just posted and thinks this is a ''flash in the pan''. I very much doubt it to be honest, we will see. I think you're at numbers 3 and 4.

Have a hotdog.

[remake it + 288]

9 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

In fairness mate, why should he provide solutions to American problems?

It's logical to remove the underlying problem which is Trump and the mechanism is already in the hands of Congress which needs only follow through with his impeachment leaving Pence to next order the withdrawal of all US forces from Iraq which is also what the Iraqi parliament unanimously agreed so it's all pretty simple.