IRAN / USA

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

And I do believe that a lot of you are not even from this country, so double phuck you!! It's none of your concern, unless we are screwing you over personally with some policy that is making life hard in your country. But even then, that policy is probably from "another" president so you have no claim to disdain with Trump. 

Serwin, I like you mate, but this proves my point perfectly. Doug asks for opinions of how to deal with shit to Papillon, then Tom jumps on too saying he hasn't answered the question. Then I try to answer it, and you reply with this. So, Americans don't want to hear solutions do they, they want people to say how amazing they are, and the reaction to any criticism of USA is ''you're not from here, it's not your problem, so fuck you''. So deal with it yourselves, it's not my problem as you say. 

1 hour ago, SERWIN said:

And to all of you that have been calling Trump a war monger, phuck you!! Phuck all of you!! You have run around being judgmental and you knew NOTHING about the man!! Phuck you every one of you!!

I dunno if this is to me man, but all I said was you will do whatever Trump says, as he can go do wrong. As always here, again quoting Papillon, this then jumps immediately to comparisons to the last president, as everyone there seems unable to separate their own politics from any issue we discuss here. Positives in the USA? Wooh go Trump! Any negatives? Well the Dems did this ... Obama did this ... would be worse under Hillary ... who has said for a kick off that Trump is a 'warmonger' ffs?

No offence but last night I honestly considered starting a thread entitled ''America's complete lack of self reflection.''  You guys cannot take any criticism of your country whatsoever, plus think everyone thinks as you do. Every single topic we discuss here turns to comparisons to Democrats, to Obama, to China to now ''it's none of your business''. Don't ask me for opinions then if the answer is just gonna be ''fuck you'' a bunch of times. 

3 hours ago, BigJets said:

Hey laddy, are you guys brexiting yet? 

No but I'm not here asking for solutions or blaming everything on past prime ministers. That's what you guys would be doing. Don't mention Johnson though as you don't know him and it's not your problem anyway so f**k you lol. Is that a fair response? That's the one I got. 

10 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

"Chill everyone" and respect everyone's opinion even if you strongly disagree.

Or just say fuck you a bunch of times. But hey, atleast Papillon will be proved right YET AGAIN and that will not receive red arrows, as Serwin is Republican. These same people will then talk of bias to him and double standards. 

4 hours ago, Otis11 said:

I disagree with a lot of our historic foreign policy

That's what I was talking about. 

4 hours ago, Otis11 said:

All that said, I don't have strategic intelligence being provided to know the whole situation, so there may be a better path.

DING, but as everyone here is clearly a military strategist apart from us mate, I say leave them and their opinions to it. It's not my problem anyway, even though Doug asked for opinions and I'm told f**k you, so as ever, all you guys wanna do is hear your own opinions bouncing round like an echo, so enjoy. 

[remake it + 288]

4 hours ago, Otis11 said:

Ok, Iran views us as technically at war - so killing soldiers is a stated mission of a military commander - but if he has imminent plans to do so, is the US not also justified in removing him as a threat of war? (aka killing him in a military action?)

If nations want to indulge in pre-emptive wars on the basis of information they are unwilling to share or just as likely to concoct then we are in a pretty sad state of affairs (literally).  Your point about " imminent plans" overlooks that every nation with an army has plans to defend itself from its most likely adversaries and these are regularly revised - what makes plans imminent is moot.  

Edited January 9, 2020 by remake it
"Ok, Iran views us as technically at war " - does it?

[SERWIN + 749]

25 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Damn it man stop sitting on the fence and say how you really feel!😂

Sorry guys, it just chaps my ass that the first president since Reagan that actually gives a flying crap about anything more than filling his pockets at the expense of all of us is being treated like shit because the media and democrats don't "LIKE" him. We are getting to the point that they are going to be drug out on the lawn of the capitol building and get holes punched through their heads by those of us that have sat by quietly while they became more and more emboldened. It is getting time to tell all of them that if they don't like it they can go elsewhere and take over and destroy everything for those people. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

5 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

Sorry guys, it just chaps my ass that the first president since Reagan that actually gives a flying crap about anything more than filling his pockets at the expense of all of us is being treated like shit because the media and democrats don't "LIKE" him. We are getting to the point that they are going to be drug out on the lawn of the capitol building and get holes punched through their heads by those of us that have sat by quietly while they became more and more emboldened. It is getting time to tell all of them that if they don't like it they can go elsewhere and take over and destroy everything for those people. 

More than 2 things can be true at the same time.  There is the geopolitical facts and then the TDS/DJT facts.  Fact is most presidents "foreign policy" is nothing but the previous presidents screw ups/successes. Your choice is generally: Crap sandwich #1 or Crapola sandwich #2.  Sorry, but Fact #0 is to not let Iran take over Iraq and all of its oil. 

[remake it + 288]

8 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

Sorry guys, it just chaps my ass that the first president since Reagan that actually gives a flying crap about anything more than filling his pockets at the expense of all of us

Is that right?

[PE Scott + 563]

41 minutes ago, remake it said:

If nations want to indulge in pre-emptive wars on the basis of information they are unwilling to share or just as likely to concoct then we are in a pretty sad state of affairs (literally).  Your point about " imminent plans" overlooks that every nation with an army has plans to defend itself from its most likely adversaries and these are regularly revised - what makes the imminent is moot.  

Come on now, you're really stretching that argument. You have to admit there is an immense difference between having an army and drilling for defense than there is for actively planning attacks on other countries citizens or facilities. 

I was just seeing that it looks as if Iran maybe shot down a commercial airliner on accident? I'm curious to see the response by western nations and how it compares to Irans response after a U.S. destroyer mistakingly shot down one of their commercial airliners in 1988. (Credit to you @remake it for bringing that to my attention.)

 

A better way of saying it may be that capability does not convey intent.

Edited January 9, 2020 by PE Scott

[Bob D + 562]

33 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

Serwin, I like you mate, but this proves my point perfectly. Doug asks for opinions of how to deal with shit to Papillon, then Tom jumps on too saying he hasn't answered the question. Then I try to answer it, and you reply with this. So, Americans don't want to hear solutions do they, they want people to say how amazing they are, and the reaction to any criticism of USA is ''you're not from here, it's not your problem, so fuck you''. So deal with it yourselves, it's not my problem as you say. 

I dunno if this is to me man, but all I said was you will do whatever Trump says, as he can go do wrong. As always here, again quoting Papillon, this then jumps immediately to comparisons to the last president, as everyone there seems unable to separate their own politics from any issue we discuss here. Positives in the USA? Wooh go Trump! Any negatives? Well the Dems did this ... Obama did this ... would be worse under Hillary ... who has said for a kick off that Trump is a 'warmonger' ffs?

No offence but last night I honestly considered starting a thread entitled ''America's complete lack of self reflection.''  You guys cannot take any criticism of your country whatsoever, plus think everyone thinks as you do. Every single topic we discuss here turns to comparisons to Democrats, to Obama, to China to now ''it's none of your business''. Don't ask me for opinions then if the answer is just gonna be ''fuck you'' a bunch of times. 

No but I'm not here asking for solutions or blaming everything on past prime ministers. That's what you guys would be doing. Don't mention Johnson though as you don't know him and it's not your problem anyway so f**k you lol. Is that a fair response? That's the one I got. 

Or just say fuck you a bunch of times. But hey, atleast Papillon will be proved right YET AGAIN and that will not receive red arrows, as Serwin is Republican. These same people will then talk of bias to him and double standards. 

That's what I was talking about. 

DING, but as everyone here is clearly a military strategist apart from us mate, I say leave them and their opinions to it. It's not my problem anyway, even though Doug asked for opinions and I'm told f**k you, so as ever, all you guys wanna do is hear your own opinions bouncing round like an echo, so enjoy. 

This simply proves my "cabal" theory.

One side vs. the other.  We all know whose side each of us is on.  We're all way to thin skinned.  It's generally US Republicans vs. everybody else.  That's the Obama effect.  He cared more about the voice of the world (and you loved it) than he did about the voices in America.  The result is ... Trump (and you don't like it).

Pick the thread.  Regardless of the topic this is what it devolves into.

He said this and you gave him a purple trophy then called him a nasty name.  I said fake news but only after you uttered Trump.  And fascinatingly, we both claim all you want to do is hear opinions you agree with.

BUT I LOVE IT!!!!!

 

 

 

 

[remake it + 288]

1 minute ago, PE Scott said:

Come on now, you're really stretching that argument. You have to admit there is an immense difference between having an army and drilling for defense than there is for actively planning attacks on other countries citizens or facilities. 

In a nuanced sense yes however the issue is that there is no evidence of Soleimani's pre-emptive intents especially seeing his visit to Iraq was to visit the Prime Minister for reasons outlined here.

[Bob D + 562]

1 hour ago, remake it said:

Your point about " imminent plans" overlooks that every nation with an army has plans to defend itself from its most likely adversaries and these are regularly revised - what makes the imminent is moot.  

So an Iranian General in a foreign country (iraq), planning and executing an attack on a US embassy deemed "defending itself"???

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Bob D

[Bob D + 562]

3 minutes ago, remake it said:

In a nuanced sense yes however the issue is that there is no evidence of Soleimani's pre-emptive intents especially seeing his visit to Iraq was to visit the Prime Minister for reasons outlined here.

One inconvenient embassy attack away from a logical argument remake it. 

[PE Scott + 563]

14 minutes ago, remake it said:

In a nuanced sense yes however the issue is that there is no evidence of Soleimani's pre-emptive intents especially seeing his visit to Iraq was to visit the Prime Minister for reasons outlined here.

Fair enough, one is left to place their faith in the word of the government and believe what they're told. I have my skepticism too, I won't lie. I am 100% sure I don't see enough of the picture to make a definitive judgement one way or the other.

I also wonder what the burden of proof is for the U.S. in this scenario. I can see where this could be delicate if the U.S. felt divulging some of that intelligence might put certain assets at risk of exposure for example. It would be nice to see all the evidence laid out, that's for sure. However, I'm not sure its appropriate for the general public.

 

Edit: I'd like to circle back around to that commercial airliner that got shot down at some point to. I have to wonder if maybe Iran pumped the breaks after making a mistake if they had originally planned for greater hostilities.

Edited January 9, 2020 by PE Scott

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Bob D said:

It's generally US Republicans vs. everybody else.  That's the Obama effect.  He cared more about the voice of the world (and you loved it) than he did about the voices in America.  The result is ... Trump (and you don't like it).

I'm English so I couldn't care less who you voted for. I know you think everyone cares about your politics, whether now or in the past, but the world has better things to do than watch your circus, believe it or not. 

So to say ''I loved it'' when Obama was in is incorrect, and to say ''I don't like'' Trump being in is incorrect too. But again, another jump to instant comparisons and even calls it the Obama effect LOL. Of course, it's a negative, so has a Democrat named effect. There are these 'cabals' because of shit like this. A complete incapability to hear the other side.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Guest

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

I think this forum is getting too polarised in its opinions, well certainly by some and that is from both sides.

its becoming tedious frankly.

[Bob D + 562]

13 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

I'm English so I couldn't care less who you voted for. I know you think everyone cares about your politics, whether now or in the past, but the world has better things to do than watch your circus, believe it or not. 

So to say ''I loved it'' when Obama was in is incorrect, and to say ''I don't like'' Trump being in is incorrect too. But again, another jump to instant comparisons and even calls it the Obama effect LOL. Of course, it's a negative, so has a Democrat named effect. There are these 'cabals' because of shit like this. A complete incapability to hear the other side.

Come on!  I don't want you to care who I voted for and I could not care less if anyone cares about my politics.

Take a quick poll on this site and I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts (American cuisine) that the non-Americans liked Obama better than Bush and/or Trump.  Why - Obama was a globalist.  America's reaction after 2 terms was "Trump".  Why - America first. 

Therefore - stating Non-Americans align with Democrats isn't far fetched at all.  It absolutely defines the cabals in the US Foreign Affairs threads.

That's all I'm saying.  just sayin'

 

 

[remake it + 288]

23 minutes ago, PE Scott said:

Edit: I'd like to circle back around to that commercial airliner that got shot down at some point to. I have to wonder if maybe Iran pumped the breaks after making a mistake if they had originally planned for greater hostilities.

It is interesting how the West is controlling the present narrative that comments here rely on when the Iranians have said that their evidence is wholly contrary to that narrative - which just confirms the nature of confirmation bias existing within this forum and a reluctance to even consider why a contrary position might be reasoned.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

51 minutes ago, Bob D said:

This simply proves my "cabal" theory.

One side vs. the other.  We all know whose side each of us is on.  We're all way to thin skinned.  It's generally US Republicans vs. everybody else.  That's the Obama effect.  He cared more about the voice of the world (and you loved it) than he did about the voices in America.  The result is ... Trump (and you don't like it).

Pick the thread.  Regardless of the topic this is what it devolves into.

He said this and you gave him a purple trophy then called him a nasty name.  I said fake news but only after you uttered Trump.  And fascinatingly, we both claim all you want to do is hear opinions you agree with.

BUT I LOVE IT!!!!

 

I'm waiting for this book to be released, the first 2 chapters are online already.

THE LEFTIST GUIDE TO DEPLATFORMING | The Left's Handbook To Silence The Right

 

[SERWIN + 749]

1 hour ago, DayTrader said:

Serwin, I like you mate, but this proves my point perfectly. Doug asks for opinions of how to deal with shit to Papillon, then Tom jumps on too saying he hasn't answered the question. Then I try to answer it, and you reply with this. So, Americans don't want to hear solutions do they, they want people to say how amazing they are, and the reaction to any criticism of USA is ''you're not from here, it's not your problem, so fuck you''. So deal with it yourselves, it's not my problem as you say. 

I dunno if this is to me man, but all I said was you will do whatever Trump says, as he can go do wrong. As always here, again quoting Papillon, this then jumps immediately to comparisons to the last president, as everyone there seems unable to separate their own politics from any issue we discuss here. Positives in the USA? Wooh go Trump! Any negatives? Well the Dems did this ... Obama did this ... would be worse under Hillary ... who has said for a kick off that Trump is a 'warmonger' ffs? 

No but I'm not here asking for solutions or blaming everything on past prime ministers. That's what you guys would be doing. Don't mention Johnson though as you don't know him and it's not your problem anyway so f**k you lol. Is that a fair response? That's the one I got. 

Or just say fuck you a bunch of times. But hey, atleast Papillon will be proved right YET AGAIN and that will not receive red arrows, as Serwin is Republican. These same people will then talk of bias to him and double standards. 

That's what I was talking about. 

I have stayed out of the DOUG/PAPPILON thing, I just watch and laugh, like so many of us do....

I really recall calling you out with this DT, and I do notice a lot of silence now about Trump "causing a war" and American "Imperialism" from the peanut squad. I'm just sick of seeing this kind of crap berating someone they have no clue about. They don't live here so they don't really know. 

I don't understand that whole "doing what Trump says" thing, I have not received any commands from him yet, and if they were to do something I felt was immoral or illegal then no, I wouldn't follow those orders. He doesn't "RUN" us, he does what he feels is right "FOR" us, and since he is supposed to be our "REPRESENTATIVE" and he is doing things that we have needed done for a couple of decades now, he is actually doing his "JOB". 

And I am a Republican now, and proud of it. I used to be a Democrat years ago, but the turn in philosophy that has come about has changed my mind. After Clinton I just couldn't vote one back in office again, so the fact is I guess I am a Republican(racist), but that's better than being a Democrat(pedophile) by a long shot. 

My biggest, most important question is this though, even though I did not call you out specifically, or wasn't even thinking about you, did you have a pang of remorse? Did I strike a nerve DT? I like you as well DT, I really wasn't "calling you out" so to speak. I'm calling out all the naysayers, they have been proven wrong two times now, but do you think any of them will change their minds....

And yes, we do make a LOT of references to the last loser that was our duly elected president. He deserves it. His single biggest accomplishment was becoming a multi millionaire, and that did absolutely NOTHING for the rest of us. His next biggest accomplishment was the ACA(Affordable care act)(Asinine crap act) that had so many holes in it that it destroyed healthcare for those of us that have jobs and get healthcare plans with those jobs. My heath insurance, for just me, is actually more in one month than my house payment is. And even though we protested it so vehemently, he and the democraps pushed it through anyway. I clearly remember him saying he was going to get out of the middle east, but the very first thing he did as president? Send more troops over. Didn't hear any whining liberals bitching about that one.

Do you realize that him, his guy "wife", and helliary are lawyers(barristers I believe y'all call them) that were DISBARRED for unethical practices. You have to screw up pretty bad to be under threat of disbarment. That should have been the first sign of the trouble looming on the horizon to all of us.

And what "solutions" does anyone think will actually work in the ME? They are frigging animals over there. They treat women like crap, dogs are more revered than women. They have impromptu trials on the street, someone gets accused of some wrongdoing and gets stoned to death without even so much as a defense. And how about women that get raped being stoned to death? Seems like a great place... I really don't think there will ever be a solution to that place, they are way too under civilized to be shown how to get along with everyone else. Hell, that cult they are in says they CAN'T be allowed to get along with anyone else.

And by the way, I think that Johnson IS an asshole, but he will do y'all a great job, and I think that is awesome for y'all. So you'll notice that I leave him alone for that. I think that he is a cause of debate probably similar to what we are dealing with over here, on the bigger, better side of the pond(lol). But I also think Trump is an asshole as well, but he is doing a great job. Maybe what I mean is that all this "political correctness" is just a new term for being a pushover pussy instead of a real man/woman.  We don't need any more political correctness, we need politicians that stand up for their countries, and their countries interests before cow towing to some other countries ignorant demands, and really one sided crappy trade deals for that matter....

And I will say to the naysayers again.

a highdy ho Phuck you all, and to all a phucked night!!

#greatestprezever!!

#trump2020

#Ilovemyguns

#Ilovemeat

#Ifartlikecowstoo

#ilovegasguzzlingv8'sandsuv's

 

[SERWIN + 749]

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Damn it man stop sitting on the fence and say how you really feel!😂

Was I not succinct enough?

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Just a reminder, as I have mentioned this before repeatedly.  when I lived in Malysia, within walking distance was a "Little Iran" enclave, of thousands of Iranians.  I've also worked with Iranians.  I generally have no issue with Iranians.

My issue is the insane Iranian government.  Ruthless religious absolute dictatorship.  I have never met an Iranian that actually liked or supported the Iranian government.

That said, this is an Interesting article:

Source close to Iranian resistance says not all is as it seems. Exclusive interview

I have a very close friend and contact who is Iranian and is well connected with the resistance movement in that nation.

My contact has said that nothing is as it appears to be at least from the perspective of what we're being told and shown.

For the record, my contact lived in Iran for over 40 years and worked as a journalist in that country as well as having served as an editor for several of their internal news organizations. He left Iran almost 4 years ago and now resides in Canada. He has kept in close contact with his ties in Iran since leaving and has his hand on the pulse of the people in that nation.

Here's the highlights from the conversation/interview with my contact:

• Apparently, the demonstrations we're being shown on television is a farce; he said the Iranian government typically pays or otherwise compels those we see demonstrating to be out en masse protesting. In reality, by and large, the Iranian people hated Soleimani and celebrated his death  ...

[SERWIN + 749]

1 hour ago, remake it said:

Is that right?

So how much money does he make from these conferences held at his own resorts? Please tell me, I really want to know. Spoiler alerts here, he DONATES his ENTIRE salary to charities.....

[SERWIN + 749]

And I still love you the same DT, And, I'll respect you in the morning....LMOA

[remake it + 288]

4 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

o you realize that him, his guy "wife", and helliary are lawyers(barristers I believe y'all call them) that were DISBARRED for unethical practices. You have to screw up pretty bad to be under threat of disbarment. That should have been the first sign of the trouble looming on the horizon to all of us.

Some readers wonder what makes the forum polarized but then conclude it's just the unending stream of ignorance that washes into posts.

[SERWIN + 749]

3 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Just a reminder, as I have mentioned this before repeatedly.  when I lived in Malysia, within walking distance was a "Little Iran" enclave, of thousands of Iranians.  I've also worked with Iranians.  I generally have no issue with Iranians.

My issue is the insane Iranian government.  Ruthless religious absolute dictatorship.  I have never met an Iranian that actually liked or supported the Iranian government.

That said, this is an Interesting article:

Source close to Iranian resistance says not all is as it seems. Exclusive interview

I have a very close friend and contact who is Iranian and is well connected with the resistance movement in that nation.

My contact has said that nothing is as it appears to be at least from the perspective of what we're being told and shown.

For the record, my contact lived in Iran for over 40 years and worked as a journalist in that country as well as having served as an editor for several of their internal news organizations. He left Iran almost 4 years ago and now resides in Canada. He has kept in close contact with his ties in Iran since leaving and has his hand on the pulse of the people in that nation.

Here's the highlights from the conversation/interview with my contact:

• Apparently, the demonstrations we're being shown on television is a farce; he said the Iranian government typically pays or otherwise compels those we see demonstrating to be out en masse protesting. In reality, by and large, the Iranian people hated Soleimani and celebrated his death  ...

That sounds very plausible... I am sure the average Iranian feels repressed, and in fear for their lives on a daily basis. But they will need to become warriors to stop this from happening over and over again....

[SERWIN + 749]

Just now, remake it said:

Some readers wonder what makes the forum polarized but then conclude it's just the unending stream of ignorance that washes into posts.

That was actually a joke, I see it all the time. But you probably wouldn't understand humor

[remake it + 288]

5 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

So how much money does he make from these conferences held at his own resorts? Please tell me, I really want to know. Spoiler alerts here, he DONATES his ENTIRE salary to charities.....

Do you know what "bait and switch" is?