I have a plan for Iraq. Not new. Not my idea. But might work.

[Jabbar + 465]

The Iraq Parliament voted to expel the U.S from Iraq. Two points :

(1) It's not the Parliament's  decision.  Parliament does not have the authority to expel.  Per the original agreement only the Prime Minister has the authority to expel the U.S. troops.  (2) Understand there are three main factions in the Iraq Parliament as in Shiite , Sunni and Kurds.  ONLY THE SHIITE MEMBERS VOTED TO EXPEL.  The other two groups did not show up to vote. 

During the U.S.  Obama administration there was a bill in the Armed Services Committee that seriously debated splitting the country into three separate territories.  Now it's not the U.S. right to impose their will on a sovereign country .   .   .   .  however they could take actions that could deliver the desired outcome with a high degree of certainty .  I remember U.S. Vice President Biden actually mentioning the idea in an interview.

The plan was to arm (heavily) the Sunni National Guard and the Kurdish Peshmerga and allow them to establish their own territory and establish a government.

This would divide Iraq into three smaller and less threatening states.  The Israelis actually loved the plan.  

One concern was while there would be three states the majority of the oil fields were in two, the Shiite in the South and Kurdish in the North. The Sunnis would get stiffed.

The Israelis would be happy, the Kurds would be happy, the U.S. would be happy and hopefully the Sunnis with maybe some help or even annexation by KSA could be happy.  Iran ? Well they can get closer to their Shiite brethren in southern Iraq and should be happy.

Also, remember that the Kurds maintain a large swath of land in northern Syria that runs from the Iraq border to encompass a large territory to the west. This area has productive oil fields.  The Kurds hold this land with the help of the U.S. and it looks like the Kurds plan to stay.  The spoils of war ? That territory combined with Kurd's Iraq land would make a nice nation state for the Kurds. 

If it happens it might be coordinated by U.S. and other countries .   .   .    or the U.S. could just leave and hand the keys to the military bases, equipment, helicopters, armoured vehicles, etc.  to the Kurds and Sunnis. If they establish sovereign government the U.S. could recognize them and help protect them. 

Long shot but you never know. 

If doesn't work the U.S. should just get out of Middle East. 

Some plan along these lines was seriously considered by the Obama Administration.  They ultimately said it had to remain as one.  Don't know why ?

Another option: Trump could go for same plan but just work with Kurds for their territory and defense.  

  ________________________________

Post from last weekend : U.S.has Squandered $6 Trillion in Mideast/Asia

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Jabbar

[Jabbar + 465]

8 hours ago, Jabbar said:

..

Edited January 8, 2020 by Jabbar

[Bob D + 562]

According to Marcin's post

 

 

Maybe it's not up to the parliament but the vote was 170-0. 

You state "But many Kurdish and Sunni members did not appear for vote."  Which means some Kurdish and Sunni members DID appear for the vote.  The power of the word "many" even to this American is understood.  The Iraqi parliament is 328 members.  I don't know Iraqi parliament protocol but if it's a simple majority it would not matter that "many Kurdish and Sunni members did not appear for vote".  Anyone know what it takes to win a vote in the Iraqi parliament?

I like the plan but you can't just make up a plan to resolve Iraq in 2020 over a cup of coffee to start your day and expect worldwide or even site wide approval.  I love your ambition!!

 

[Jabbar + 465]

On 1/7/2020 at 3:12 PM, Bob D said:

According to Marcin's post

 

 

Maybe it's not up to the parliament but the vote was 170-0. 

You state "But many Kurdish and Sunni members did not appear for vote."  Which means some Kurdish and Sunni members DID appear for the vote.  

I like the plan but you can't just make up a plan to resolve Iraq in 2020 over a cup of coffee to start your day and expect worldwide or even site wide approval.  I love your ambition!!

No Sunnis or Kurds voted.  That's close to 160 votes. 

The recent anti Iraq government protesters were all Sunnis. They don't want anything to do with Iran. 

Only way there was ever any control in Iraq was during Sadam Huesein's fascist reign when he ruled with an Iron fist. 

U.S. has been involved in this quagmire for way to long as U.S. Trump calls them " endless wars"

I say they should pull their troops out leave the bases and equipment.  If doesn't work too bad.  They are outta there.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Jabbar

[Boat + 1,324]

1 hour ago, Jabbar said:

I first aclnowledge that Iraq Parliament voted to make U.S leave Iraq. I think it's is  in the U.S. interest to just get out lock, stock and barrel. The sooner the better.

Two points (1) It's not the Parliament's  decision.  Per the original agreement only the Prime Minister can expel the U.S. troops.  (2) Understand there are three main factions in the Iraq Parliament as in Shiite , Sunni , Kurds.  ONLY THE SHIITE VOTED TO EXPEL.  The other two did no show up to vote. 

During the U.S.  Obama administration there was a bill in the Armed Services Committee that seriously debated splitting the country into three separate territories.  Now it's not the U.S. right to impose their will on a sovereign country .   .   .   .  however they could take actions that could deliver the desired outcome with a high degree of certainty .  I remember Vice President Biden actually mentioning the idea in an interview.

The plan was to arm (heavily) the Sunni National Guard and the Kurdish Peshmerga and allow them to establish their territory. 

This would divide Iraq into three smaller and less threatening states.  The Israelis actually loved the plan.  

One concern was while there would be three states the majority of the oil field were in two, the Shiite in the South and Kurdish in the North. The Sunnis would get stiffed.

The Israelis would be happy, the Kurds would be happy, the U.S. would be happy and hopefully the Sunnis with maybe some help or even annexation by KSA could be happy.  Iran ? Well they can get closer to their Shiite brethren in southern Iraq and should be happy.

Also, remember that the Kurds maintain a large swath of land in northern Syria that runs from the Iraq border to a small access to a Mediterranean port. This area has some productive oil fields.  The Kurds hold this land with the help of the U.S. and it looks like they plan to stay.  The spoils of war ? That territory combined with Kurd's Iraq land would make a nice nation state for the Kurds. 

If it happens it might be coordinated by U.S. and other countries .   .   .    or the U.S. could just leave and hand the keys to the military bases, equipment, helicopters, armoured vehicles, etc.  to the Kurds and Sunnis. If they establish sovereign government the U.S. could recognize them and help protect them. 

Long shot but you never know. 

U.S. just get out of Middle East. 

Some plan along these lines was seriously considered by the Obama Administration.  They ultimately said it had to remain one.  Don't know why ?

Another option: Trump could go for same plan but just work with Kurds for their territory and defense.  

Over a decade ago a Middle East expert was suggesting a similar proposal but he included almost all the countries in the area. He blamed the current country boundaries on the white men after WWI and WWII carving out potential spoils instead of grouping like minded ethnic groups together.

No superpower presence might be total war and chaos. Disruption of oil would cause world disruption. If no US, who? China, Japan, S Korea, India working out who provides security for oil fields in multiple hot spots? The obvious answer to me is get all these import and export countries to work together to take the teeth out of religion instead of arming both sides. It’s a dream that won’t happen. 
Factory workers could figure it out but not educated idiots. Education breeds greed.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Why the Middle East is such a quagmire in two maps

 

This map is what T. E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) drew to guide the idiots in London for post WWI lines. His Arab uprising is what effectively kept the Ottoman Empire out of the war, unable to help their allies the Germans and Austrian Hungarian Empire. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Ward Smith

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

This map is what the idiots came up with instead, completely ignoring Lawrence and screwing their Arab allies in the bargain. Because morons. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

5 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Why the Middle East is such a quagmire in two maps

 

This map is what T. E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) drew to guide the idiots in London for post WWI lines. His Arab uprising is what effectively kept the Ottoman Empire out of the war, unable to help their allies the Germans and Austrian Hungarian Empire. 

An interesting explanation of the causes of the Armenian Genocide. This also points out that the Middle East has always been in flux through dozens of wars and hundreds of battles.https://armenianweekly.com/2018/04/24/what-were-the-main-causes-of-the-armenian-genocide/

The Old Testament tells the story also. The New Testament book Revelation portrays the future of the area in a veiled manner. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

6 hours ago, ronwagn said:

The Old Testament tells the story also. The New Testament book Revelation portrays the future of the area in a veiled manner. 

Yep everything in both Testaments is 100% factual!

C'mon Ron you're a bright guy you surely cant use this to back up a post??

I'd rather believe everything CNN say

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

15 hours ago, Jabbar said:

The Iraq Parliament voted to expel the U.S from Iraq. Two points :

(1) It's not the Parliament's  decision.  Parliament does not have the authority to expel.  Per the original agreement only the Prime Minister has the authority to expel the U.S. troops.  (2) Understand there are three main factions in the Iraq Parliament as in Shiite , Sunni and Kurds.  ONLY THE SHIITE MEMBERS VOTED TO EXPEL.  The other two groups did not show up to vote. 

During the U.S.  Obama administration there was a bill in the Armed Services Committee that seriously debated splitting the country into three separate territories.  Now it's not the U.S. right to impose their will on a sovereign country .   .   .   .  however they could take actions that could deliver the desired outcome with a high degree of certainty .  I remember U.S. Vice President Biden actually mentioning the idea in an interview.

The plan was to arm (heavily) the Sunni National Guard and the Kurdish Peshmerga and allow them to establish their own territory and establish a government.

This would divide Iraq into three smaller and less threatening states.  The Israelis actually loved the plan.  

One concern was while there would be three states the majority of the oil fields were in two, the Shiite in the South and Kurdish in the North. The Sunnis would get stiffed.

The Israelis would be happy, the Kurds would be happy, the U.S. would be happy and hopefully the Sunnis with maybe some help or even annexation by KSA could be happy.  Iran ? Well they can get closer to their Shiite brethren in southern Iraq and should be happy.

Also, remember that the Kurds maintain a large swath of land in northern Syria that runs from the Iraq border to the east. This area has productive oil fields.  The Kurds hold this land with the help of the U.S. and it looks like the Kurds plan to stay.  The spoils of war ? That territory combined with Kurd's Iraq land would make a nice nation state for the Kurds. 

If it happens it might be coordinated by U.S. and other countries .   .   .    or the U.S. could just leave and hand the keys to the military bases, equipment, helicopters, armoured vehicles, etc.  to the Kurds and Sunnis. If they establish sovereign government the U.S. could recognize them and help protect them. 

Long shot but you never know. 

If doesn't work the U.S. should just get out of Middle East. 

Some plan along these lines was seriously considered by the Obama Administration.  They ultimately said it had to remain as one.  Don't know why ?

Another option: Trump could go for same plan but just work with Kurds for their territory and defense.  

Dammit, I have to agree with Jabbar 100% again! This is worrisome. Perhaps I am getting old and soft...

Well done Jabbar!

(This time anyway...😈)

[ronwagn + 6,290]

10 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Yep everything in both Testaments is 100% factual!

C'mon Ron you're a bright guy you surely cant use this to back up a post??

I'd rather believe everything CNN say

Did I say that? I don't remember ever saying that. My statement is about the history of the Middle East and the many wars and battles. Refute specifics on those if you wish. The Old Testament is a good historical source as well as being a religious document. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

6 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

The Old Testament is a good historical source as well as being a religious document. 

Really?

If you honestly think that then good luck to you and that crack pipe youre smoking

[ronwagn + 6,290]

28 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Really?

If you honestly think that then good luck to you and that crack pipe youre smoking

Really, you think that it is not? Where do you get your information on the Jews and their history?

Rob, if you have a relationship with God, you do not need crack. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by ronwagn
error

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

4 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Really, you think that it is not? Where do you get your information on the Jews and their history?

Rob, if you have a relationship with God, you do not need crack. 

You sound like my mom Ron, she is super religious.

i guess it’s a perspective thing. If you believe as you appear to do then literally everything is Gospel. However there is no way in hell (or heaven) for that matter that you can take the stories such as Noah’s Ark as sound historical facts surely? Or shall I wait until I’m older (983 years maybe) and wiser?

i respect your beliefs as literally all my extended family are not only church goers but some of them practically run the damn churches they attend, so I don’t want to belittle anyone’s beliefs that is NOT my intention but the Old Testament as a credible historical and factual recollection of what actual took place I am just not accepting. 
I think @DayTrader has had this debate so I don’t want to resurrect it (pun intended).

There seem to be enough posters arguing over USA v Iran for me to want anymore angst on this forum

love the fact you have such strong belief Ron, truly.

Respectfully

[remake it + 288]

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

There seem to be enough posters arguing over USA v Iran for me to want anymore angst on this forum

Anyone for China?

@Marcin, please pull your cabal into line (but don't shoot them this time as the numbers are dwindling).

Edited January 8, 2020 by remake it
Wondered if Marcin had noticed this oversight.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

12 minutes ago, remake it said:

Anyone for China?

@Marcin, please pull your cabal into line (but don't shoot them this time as the numbers are dwindling).

Edited 5 minutes ago by remake it
Wondered if Marcin had noticed this oversight.

This is the second time you have made me laugh in the last 10 minutes.  And you seem to be poking fun at the cabal rabbit hole too.  And Krugman's meltdown is going viral, this is an amusing night.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Where do you get your information on the Jews and their history?

I'm not sure but if I wanted to research it I'd probably choose a book that's thousands of years old, and written by uneducated Middle Eastern people trying to make sense of the world around them, before science came along and answered stuff. That would be my first source.

Or Google.

2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

if you have a relationship with God, you do not need crack.

There's a statement Ron lol. Firstly, you mean YOUR god presumably, as the others are all 'wrong'? Also have you even tried crack? That could be your new religion, it may be amazing   You know you love me really x

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I think @DayTrader has had this debate so I don’t want to resurrect it (pun intended).

Genius. Yeah once or twice. I won then too.

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

love the fact you have such strong belief Ron, truly.

Me too. But you're wrong  hahah sorry couldn't resist man 🤣

la la la  Just sayin'   x

Edited January 8, 2020 by Guest

[remake it + 288]

3 minutes ago, DayTrader said:

That would be my first source.

Waaaaaaaah

Can offer flee copies..

Edited January 8, 2020 by remake it
sperr check

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

You sound like my mom Ron, she is super religious.

i guess it’s a perspective thing. If you believe as you appear to do then literally everything is Gospel. However there is no way in hell (or heaven) for that matter that you can take the stories such as Noah’s Ark as sound historical facts surely? Or shall I wait until I’m older (983 years maybe) and wiser?

i respect your beliefs as literally all my extended family are not only church goers but some of them practically run the damn churches they attend, so I don’t want to belittle anyone’s beliefs that is NOT my intention but the Old Testament as a credible historical and factual recollection of what actual took place I am just not accepting. 
I think @DayTrader has had this debate so I don’t want to resurrect it (pun intended).

There seem to be enough posters arguing over USA v Iran for me to want anymore angst on this forum

love the fact you have such strong belief Ron, truly.

Respectfully

Thanks for letting me off the hook Rob, but I did sort of ask for it this time. I just want to stick up for my side. I never said I believe everything in the Bible. I believe the main tenets and realize the the Ten Commandments are broken frequently by Christians and everyone else. I do believe in theistic evolution being behind all creation. IMHO there are too many fossils to not believe in evolution. I have a very hard time trying to accept some of the actions of the ancient Jews in their wars also.