Beijing Must Face Reality That Taiwan is Independent

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will bring up Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (1 & 2), Afghanistan, Bosnia and others and say ‘America owns this’. All of these were either coalitions of various countries, NATO or UN events. Vietnam is always mentioned, yet if you visit the war museum in Ho Chi Minh they lay out the participation of all involved countries.

Yes, the US contributes more to these efforts than others (basically because others would rather let Americans die for THEIR conviction, or lack thereof).

It would be interesting to see how many other nations would have claimed the victory if things had worked out differently in these conflicts?

[Boat + 1,323]

44 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will bring up Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (1 & 2), Afghanistan, Bosnia and others and say ‘America owns this’. All of these were either coalitions of various countries, NATO or UN events. Vietnam is always mentioned, yet if you visit the war museum in Ho Chi Minh they lay out the participation of all involved countries.

Yes, the US contributes more to these efforts than others (basically because others would rather let Americans die for THEIR conviction, or lack thereof).

It would be interesting to see how many other nations would have claimed the victory if things had worked out differently in these conflicts?

The US owned the stupidity of the execution of the Vietnam war along with similar experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq. The reasoning behind these conflicts were justified enough. I think you have to separate the two for discussion purposes.

Just like you can’t blame the troops for bad political judgement. Trump and other idiots like to confuse the seperation, But then he’s an idiot.

[frankfurter + 562]

4 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will bring up Korea, Vietnam, Iraq (1 & 2), Afghanistan, Bosnia and others and say ‘America owns this’. All of these were either coalitions of various countries, NATO or UN events. Vietnam is always mentioned, yet if you visit the war museum in Ho Chi Minh they lay out the participation of all involved countries.

Yes, the US contributes more to these efforts than others (basically because others would rather let Americans die for THEIR conviction, or lack thereof).

It would be interesting to see how many other nations would have claimed the victory if things had worked out differently in these conflicts?

Because in every case the USA INSTIGATED.  Even in your law, the master mind is separated from the accomplices to determine culpability.  Ponder that. 

 

[frankfurter + 562]

Taiwan is no more independent than is Puerto Rico.  Taiwan is a dependent of the USA.  Taiwan could never stand on its own feet otherwise.  Claiming independence is one thing: being independent is another.  

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

21 hours ago, Boat said:

The US owned the stupidity of the execution of the Vietnam war along with similar experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq. The reasoning behind these conflicts were justified enough. I think you have to separate the two for discussion purposes.

Just like you can’t blame the troops for bad political judgement. Trump and other idiots like to confuse the seperation, But then he’s an idiot.

Yep, nobody else was involved. Understood.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

18 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Taiwan is no more independent than is Puerto Rico.  Taiwan is a dependent of the USA.  Taiwan could never stand on its own feet otherwise.  Claiming independence is one thing: being independent is another.  

So what is your point? Are you saying that a country cannot claim to be a sovereign nation if it depends on others for economic or national security?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

18 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Because in every case the USA INSTIGATED.  Even in your law, the master mind is separated from the accomplices to determine culpability.  Ponder that. 

 

So the North Koreans did not instigate the Korean War, Saddam did not invade Kuwait and so on?

How and why did you bring our law into this discussion? Ponder that.

[John Foote + 1,135]

5 hours ago, Boat said:

Did Iraq like Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, N Korea, Russia, Lydia threaten the US, US allies or threaten oil flow for world commerce. 

Iraq threatened the USA by selling oil in non-petrodollars, which some believe is the real reason for Bush43s adventurism, but Saddam never threatened to cut off supply, just reband Kuwait's.

Syria, N. Korea never a factor, please let me know what you are reading because I am ignorant to their meaningful threats concerning oil. I have medals from supporting the first Gulf War, and an Air Medal for flights on North Korea. I have a decent idea of their capabilities. 

Gaddafi mostly behaved after the F-111s visited a few of his tents. Years of undermining the bugger succeed in eliminating him, but as Saddam also demonstrates, beware removing stability, even if you hate them. The longer term effect can be quite counter-productive.

Iran's nut cases definitely are active in the oil flow biz, but mostly we threatened and work to keep them out of the biz, not the other way around, and yes, I can see reasons for it, but understand who is driving the threatening. Who saved our bacon after KSA first exploited oil as a weapon? The violence on one level does work for us, albeit in a horrendously inefficient manner.

Iraq's resurgence, along with shale, has seriously dented KSAs ability to drive markets. Imagine the supply glut if we just left them all alone. The reduced price per barrel would also seriously impact the money left over for adventurism. Of course higher priced oil is good for domestic production, and alternative energy, especially renewables, so let's keep at it.

Rubbleocracy rules.