Don't sneeze. Coronavirus is a threat to oil markets and global economies

[BJblue + 12]

^"Best I can tell...ole "FF" looks just like another of those many far left "LIBS" that will contest everything/anything the current US GOV  does or tries to do." Just sayin...

[James Regan + 1,776]

On 2/6/2020 at 1:27 AM, Zhong Lu said:

So... who is willing to put their money into a company that's supposed to be making a vaccine for this? Or perhaps consider APT, which makes face masks? INO sold off the last week and is now back in the 3.5's, which is why I decided to jump in again.  Anyone else wish to try? 

I don't guarantee profits [in fact you may lose all your money, oh ho ho], but if people believe in what they say here, they should seriously consider stocks involved in this corona virus stuff like pharmaceuticals and facemask makers.

3M for example 🤔

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/3m-sees-coronavirus-boosting-demand-for-face-masks-as-china-projected-to-return-to-growth-2020-01-28

 

Corona beer not a good idea...

Edited February 7, 2020 by James Regan

[wrs + 893]

Now it appears that Russia is supporting an additional 600kbbl/day cut.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil-opec-china-russia/russia-supports-opec-panel-proposal-for-deeper-oil-cut-foreign-minister-idUSKBN2002XC

Probably not coincidentally, OPEC reports an involuntary drop of 600kbbl/day for January production, lowest since the Saudi interruption in September which was a multi-year low.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2066157-involuntary-losses-push-opec-output-to-fourmonth-low

Edited February 7, 2020 by wrs

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

What dismays me and the Chinese is the outright hostility from the USA.  On this site too, the comments are derogatory.  The USA media has expressed nothing but condemnation and, like all propaganda, has poisoned the minds of an already poisoned society.  NOBODY IN USA HAS OFFERED A HELPING HAND, as if the Chinese people are less than human, PROVING THE USA SEES CHINA AS AN ENEMY.

The United States has always extended a helping hand to the oppressed, the ill and wounded. We've blown it a few times (Rwanda comes to mind), but not often. I know a lot about the inner workings of the CDC--the best of the best--and it is not only the outfit that stands between American well-being and pestilence from all-over, but has been quick to lend its irreproducible expertise to others, and to openly share data that relates to epidemiology. 

I get around quite a bit. Everywhere I go, people are expressing dismay that their fellow man has gotten caught up in something so awful as this epidemic. President Trump's statement was transmitted directly to President Xi, and hopefully serves to establish stronger ties, one country to the other. "We will help you," is the message. 

As to this board, it's perfectly okay to make a disparaging remark. Not against the good people of China, of course, but against a Communist regime that suppresses early voices of concern about an outbreak. And it's also quite alright to speculate how bizarre it is that the epicenter happened to be in the vicinity of a level 4 lab--the only one in all of China. Reminds me of Casablanca: Of all the gin joints in the world, you chose mine. 

As to the media, if anything they have been muted and reserved from gossiping or making random guesses as to conspiracy theories. Would the inverse have occurred in Beijing? 

If you're Chinese, I get it that it may seem to you that no one is offering help--this thing spread quickly and outstripped facilities in every aspect. Again, I feel compelled to point out that the dispositive issue here is early alert. When you've got ten known cases of something weird and novel, then it's an easy thing to quarantine them and treat them with all your might, calling in other experts to figure it out in conjunction with your own experts. Life goes on. When you cover it up, punish the early alert whistleblower, allow contagion to go unchecked, this is what you get: tens of thousands with the virus, a high mortality, a great number of people huddled at home, scared and possibly dying. The rapid spread from a few cases to thousands seems to be at least partly the fault of the Communist system. And I have a sneaky suspicion the Chinese population is going to express that sentiment as well . . . once this is all over.

In fact, at some point the whole world will want some answers. And that, my friend, is where the rubber meets the road, because that virus has by now been taken apart on the laboratory benches of the CDC and the NIH. They know precisely whether it was tampered with or just got mean all on it own. Bad viruses jump the borders of countries. Evil viruses jump the borders of goodwill. And only time will tell which category this one falls into.

[Otis11 + 551]

3 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Not entirely true.  Your comments are valid for Wuhan and affected area.  For other cities, no "lock-down", but voluntary quarantine as citizens are being pro-active.  The travel ban is imposed by foreign countries, Outside Wuhan and area, travel is not banned by the govt.

What is now clear is this crisis was mismanaged by the local govt: lack of expertise and resources caused delay. The central govt stepped in immediately when the extent became known, and the central govt has taken extraordinary actions to contain this tragedy.  A billion citizens are irate now and heads will roll when this ends. 

What dismays me and the Chinese is the outright hostility from the USA.  On this site too, the comments are derogatory.  The USA media has expressed nothing but condemnation and, like all propaganda, has poisoned the minds of an already poisoned society.  NOBODY IN USA HAS OFFERED A HELPING HAND, as if the Chinese people are less than human, PROVING THE USA SEES CHINA AS AN ENEMY.

In 2009, when the H1N1 swine virus struck the USA, the CDC reported 18,448 deaths. The USA needed a full 6 MONTHS to contain the virus. Did China condemn the USA? Impose travel bans? Close the border? Label Americans as swine?  No.  Later in 2012, a full 3 years after the fact, the CDC finally came clean and reported the death toll was over 300,000 globally.  In 2009, did China accuse the USA of misrepresenting the threat and of criminal negligence?  No.   

China needed only 6 days to isolate the virus, only 1 day to impose a complete quarantine after the threat extent became known, only 12 days to build a 2600 bed hospital.  Yet, members of this site are relentless in their condemnations.  Have you lost all sense of decency and morality?  Will nobody admit a helping hand is better than a dagger? 

 

 

Ah, pure, unadultured disinformation...

Let's examine:

Tom already addressed the lockdown 2 comments up. There are 400 MILLION people (5% of the world population) on lockdown in China... officially. And many reports from insiders that their city is on an unofficial lockdown. Most of this is outside Wuhan as they are only 11 miion people and the whole province is only 60 million...(Odd thing to do for 638 deaths by official count)

Mismanaged by the local government? It was mismanaged by every level of government (including the Chinese National government and even international governing bodies from current appearance)

No one here is disparaging the Chinese as far as I can tell... but lots FAIRLY criticizing the Chinese government.

And the US did offer to help - to which China responded 'we've got this, it's nothing'. They later came back and said they'd take the supplies, but not the doctors. They dont want anyone outside their control that can report the real situation. 

H1N1 started in Mexico... not the US. It was also very different. It wasnt novel (1918 spanish flu), it was well understood, it had an incubation time of 2 days - so was easier to detect and quarantine. Our media wasnt suppressing news of it, neither was the government, our medical system was not overly stained dealing with it, had an R0 of 1.75 (much lower than the 2.6 - 6 estimated for this by independant sources), and it had lower fatality (0.03%) than the current pandemic (estimates vary for 2% - 40%, but none anywhere near 0.03%). There's a whole host of reasons this is COMPLETELY different. Oh, and that one wasn't a potential bioweapon. It only killed 18,000 people initially and 268,000 over the full run of 5 years. This is likely already close to the 18,000 deaths and is nowhere near over. If it ends with less than 1 Million deaths worldwide I will be impressed with the worldwide medical response. I expect an order of magnitude higher.

6 days to isolate?!? Give me a break, this has been circulating since sometime in November. They suppressed the news for MONTHS before they finally took action. Unfortunately it was already too late by then, so even their drastic action of quarantining 400 million people - while impressive in their ability to do so - wont be enough. This definately is neither fast nor responsive.

With that, I believe your entire lost was disinformation. Have a good day.

[notsonice + 1,080]

  3 hours ago, frankfurter said:  China needed only 6 days to isolate the virus, only 1 day to impose a complete quarantine after the threat extent became known, only 12 days to build a 2600 bed hospital.  Yet, members of this site are relentless in their condemnations.  Have you lost all sense of decency and morality?  Will nobody admit a helping hand is better than a dagger? 

Dude I have a bridge to sell you real cheap. Nothing is showing that China has isolated the virus. China is still behind in the fight. Fact is airlines are not flying into and out of China and to stop the spread, a very necessary step is happening on foreign soil. Quarantine all coming out of China

 

 

[James Regan + 1,776]

Im surprised we have not had any reported cases in Central America, Panama is a big hub for Air China a typical route Beijing-Panama-Houston the leg from Panama to Houston is always empty but a lot of Chinese either transferring or final destination Panama , mainly due to the canal and crew changes on ships, just this one little quip can show you the potential for a virus to run rampant...

[Rob Plant + 2,635]

1 minute ago, James Regan said:

Im surprised we have not had any reported cases in Central America, Panama is a big hub for Air China a typical route Beijing-Panama-Houston the leg from Panama to Houston is always empty but a lot of Chinese either transferring or final destination Panama , mainly due to the canal and crew changes on ships, just this one little quip can show you the potential for a virus to run rampant...

Are they testing/quarantining travellers from China???

If not then there wont be any reported cases and the virus as you say will run rampant

[Otis11 + 551]

26 minutes ago, James Regan said:

Im surprised we have not had any reported cases in Central America, Panama is a big hub for Air China a typical route Beijing-Panama-Houston the leg from Panama to Houston is always empty but a lot of Chinese either transferring or final destination Panama , mainly due to the canal and crew changes on ships, just this one little quip can show you the potential for a virus to run rampant...

 

24 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Are they testing/quarantining travellers from China???

If not then there wont be any reported cases and the virus as you say will run rampant

Exactly... they're not testing.

Even in the US the current recommendations for test are only those who have been to China or have KNOWN contact with someone who has traveled to china recently. Aka, even if someone is presenting with atypical pneumonia that tests negative to bacteria cultures, negative for flu, and negative to a virus multiplex test panel (aka they have no idea what caused your pneumonia) - the CDC still doesn't recommend testing for the NCV... which is utterly ridiculous. 

The US likely already has a decently wide spread, however we're not sufficiently testing to identify it. Central America, South America,  and Africa absolutely have cases... they're just not identifying them.

https://youtu.be/qD6e_4Q0SPo

[Zhong Lu + 845]

13 hours ago, Otis11 said:

I do put my money where my mouth is, and it has served me well so far.

With this, I'm having a hard time picking winners, too many variables. I'm having a much easier time picking losers,  and have reallocated my portfolio accordingly. (Adjusted about 60% of my portfolio based on this. 20% I believe - perhaps better described as vain hope- is insulated enough, and the remaining 20% I'm going to let ride. Fortunately I'm picking things that, even if I'm wrong, minimize downside)

Remember, you don't have to be right most of the time to be successful,  you just need your wins x win percentage to be larger than your loss x loss percentage. (I'm only right about 40% of the time, but win big and hedge well)

It has, people just dont realize it yet.

And the world is 'so awash' in excess supply the risk of upside shock is deemed low. One of the things that has always kept oil contract prices high (and therefore also spot prices) were long term guarantee contracts that insulated consumers from variability - especially to the high side. Right now, we've seen with multiple incidents, the perception is if one supply goes down we can get it from somewhere else... so even real production losses have minimal impact because contacts are only covering actual costs now and not building in disruption risk (because correctly or not, this is being valued very low)

I disagree that the trade war is resolving... China is unilaterally lowering tariffs because they NEED supplies on a scale only we can provide... and then asking us to reciprocate 'pretty please'???

The trade war isn't about deficit, or getting China to buy more of our crap. It's about 2 things - 1) fixing systematic deficiencies in previous trade deals (including the WTO rules) that have allowed China to exploit the world market, and 2) leverage to strong arm (or 'influence') some corporate actions behind the scenes that provide good optics - driving up the S&P500 and giving political talking points.

The trade war isn't over unless Trump losses reelection,  and even then, it depends who wins. (Though likely gets much easier for Xi if Trump is out)

Glad to hear it.  On the money part.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Zhong Lu

[GunnysGhost + 157]

Per left-leaning NYT:

"With the sick being herded into makeshift quarantine camps, with minimal medical care, a growing sense of abandonment and fear has taken hold in Wuhan, fueling the sense that the city and surrounding province of Hubei are being sacrificed for the greater good of China."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/06/world/asia/coronavirus-china-wuhan-quarantine.html#click=https://t.co/zWWGJQHhcy

China is treating 11 million people like non-humans.

 The US has significantly better biodefense response procedures than China.

CCP doesn't value human life.  It is a shame their people have to endure such a hopeless form of government.  

Edited February 7, 2020 by GunnysGhost

[GunnysGhost + 157]

Another musing:

There are many folks that initially praised the 'fast building of quarantine centers'.  That's not limited to this forum by any stretch.  

Though doing what Big Government does best is hardly praiseworthy -   

Fascist concentration camps

Soviet gulags

Chinese prisons for Uigers 

North Korean work camps 

I for one don't find it comforting that this is the Chinese Government's go-to skill set.  

Big Government philosophies build death camps.  It's what they know how to do and do it well.

So if you're looking for a Government that can put up structures where people go to die in 10 days or less, Socialism is for you! 

Edited February 7, 2020 by GunnysGhost

[notsonice + 1,080]

23 minutes ago, GunnysGhost said:

Another musing:

There are many folks that initially praised the 'fast building of quarantine centers'.  That's not limited to this forum by any stretch.  

Though doing what Big Government does best is hardly praiseworthy -   

Fascist concentration camps

Soviet gulags

Chinese prisons for Uigers 

North Korean work camps 

Big Government philosophies build death camps.  It's what they know how to do and do it well.

So if you're looking for a Government that can put up structures where people go to die in 10 days or less, Socialism is for you! 

The Data

The U.S. incarcerates 716 people for every 100,000 residents, more than any other country. In fact, our rate of incarceration is more than five times higher than most of the countries in the world. Although our level of crime is comparable to those of other stable, internally secure, industrialized nations, the United States has an incarceration rate far higher than any other country.

Nearly all of the countries with relatively high incarceration rates share the experience of recent large-scale internal conflict. But the United States, which has enjoyed a long history of political stability and hasn’t had a civil war in nearly a century and a half, tops the list.

[GunnysGhost + 157]

20 minutes ago, notsonice said:

The Data

The U.S. incarcerates 716 people for every 100,000 residents, more than any other country. In fact, our rate of incarceration is more than five times higher than most of the countries in the world. Although our level of crime is comparable to those of other stable, internally secure, industrialized nations, the United States has an incarceration rate far higher than any other country.

Nearly all of the countries with relatively high incarceration rates share the experience of recent large-scale internal conflict. But the United States, which has enjoyed a long history of political stability and hasn’t had a civil war in nearly a century and a half, tops the list.

Are you seriously going to compare "oh noes I have the right to remain silent" 

To "bring your family with you for a nice boxcar ride" 

These false equivalencies get old.  

 

But while we're on it: true that the Clinton Administration went in hard on mass incarceration of 'super-predators'.  

Trump has at least taken up the mantle of reduced sentences for non-violent crimes like paraphernalia possession 

Edited February 7, 2020 by GunnysGhost

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Some gentle Shadenfreude from ZeroHedge after they got banned from Twitter for questioning the Official Narrative.

White House Asks Scientists To Investigate Whether 2019-nCoV Was Bio-Engineered

A week ago, we published details that raised questions about the source of the Wuhan novel coronavirus, specifically questioning the official theory for the spread of the Coronavirus epidemic, namely because someone ate bat soup at a Wuhan seafood and animal market as a fabricated farce.

The real reason behind the viral spread, we suggested, was that a weaponized version of the coronavirus (one which may have originally been obtained from Canada), was released by Wuhan's Institute of Virology (presumably accidentally ), China's only top, level-4 biohazard lab, which was studying "the world's most dangerous pathogens."

At the time we summarized the series of dots and asked "real reporters" to connect them:

1. One of China's top virology and immunology experts was and still works at China's top-rated biohazard lab, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which some have affectionately called the real Umbrella Corp.
2. Since 2009, Peng has been the leading Chinese scientist researching the immune mechanism of bats carrying and transmitting lethal viruses in the world.
3. His primary field of study is researching how and why bats can be infected with some of the most nightmarish viruses in the world including Ebola, SARS and Coronavirus, and not get sick.
4. He was genetically engineering various immune pathways (such as the STING pathway in bats) to make the bats more or less susceptible to infection, in the process potentially creating a highly resistant mutant superbug.
5. As part of his studies, Peng also researched mutant Coronavirus strains that overcame the natural immunity of some bats; these are "superbug" Coronavirus strains, which are resistant to any natural immune pathway, and now appear to be out in the wild.
6. As of mid-November, his lab was actively hiring inexperienced post-docs to help conduct his research into super-Coronaviruses and bat infections.
7. Peng's work on virology and bat immunology has received support from the National "You Qing" Fund, the pilot project of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, and the major project of the Ministry of Science and Technology.

Of course, that is all ancient history and Zero Hedge was permanently banned from Twitter for raising such a conspiracy theory about a publicly-searchable person working a publicly-searchable place.

But, bygones being bygones, we moved on... until today when no lesser entity than The White House began asking questions about the origin of the deadly coronavirus.

As ABC News reports, the director of the White House's Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP), in a letter to the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine, requested that scientific experts "rapidly" look into the origins of the virus in order to address both the current spread and "to inform future outbreak preparation and better understand animal/human and environmental transmission aspects of coronaviruses."

Specifically, ABC News' Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Jennifer Ashton asked the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease about concerns that stem from misinformation online that the novel coronavirus could have been engineered or deliberately released.  ...

 

< more in the link >

 

[Otis11 + 551]

We look forward to reading Buzzfeed's article decrying The White House for daring to ask questions about the origin of this deadly pandemic.

Hahahahaha... ay least they kept their sense of humor...

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

11 hours ago, frankfurter said:

What dismays me and the Chinese is the outright hostility from the USA.  On this site too, the comments are derogatory.  The USA media has expressed nothing but condemnation and, like all propaganda, has poisoned the minds of an already poisoned society.  NOBODY IN USA HAS OFFERED A HELPING HAND, as if the Chinese people are less than human, PROVING THE USA SEES CHINA AS AN ENEMY.

 

Debunked.

U.S. announces aid for China, other countries impacted by coronavirus

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States stands ready to spend up to $100 million to assist China and other countries impacted by coronavirus, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced on Friday.  

“This commitment – along with the hundreds of millions generously donated by the American private sector – demonstrates strong U.S. leadership in response to the outbreak,” Pompeo said in a statement.  ...

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

It’s illegal for Chinese to criticize their government’s pitiful Coronavirus response

China recently sent out an “Announcement on the Special Control of Rumors Related to New Coronavirus Pneumonia.”

The announcement reminds citizens that it is illegal to spread false information or induce panic online. And the government considers anything about the Coronavirus that doesn’t come directly from government sources “false information”.

Anyone who violates this ban and shares what the government considers rumors about the outbreak could face up to seven years in prison.

China has also made clear that the government considers criticizing their response to the Coronavirus outbreak a violation of the law.

Already China arrested dozens of social media users for spreading “false information without verification.”

This is all made even more absurd by China’s terrible response to the outbreak. Instead of tackling the issue head-on, they tried to hide it for over a month. Hundreds of people have now died, and more than 20,000 have been infected.

Yet China’s government is still more concerned about keeping information from spreading rather than keeping the disease from spreading.  ...

 

[Anthony Okrongly + 114]

On 2/5/2020 at 7:11 PM, Ward Smith said:

Where have you been? @Anthony Okrongly "wrongly" missed too it seems. 

@wrs hasn't much to say

🤪🤪😜🙃🤯🤐😱😱

There's a word for this virus... for those who actually know something about viruses. It's called a "Polemic" virus. SARs was Polemic as well. That means that the virus does not have pool required to maintain itself. Once the proper social measures are taken to isolate the cases the virus quickly disappears and never recurs. What should I say?  That the Coronavirus made the stock market go up to the highest levels in history?  Are you blaming oil prices on this tiny virus.  Weren't oil prices already going down before it ever happened.  So it's just an excuse?  Planes not flying to Hunan or where ever is the difference between oil going up or down?

Anyone in America who is scared of this virus is an idiot. Anyone in Europe who is scared of this virus is an idiot. People in South America have more important things to worry about. Australia... they have wildfires. The Middle East?  Do you think this virus affect OPEC?  The news of the world economy's demise over this virus has been greatly exaggerated.

Why did I not come back to this thread?  The same reason I don't go back to threads about how we didn't go to the moon after saying WTF?  So, yea... you're still idiots. I don't have to watch you be idiots in order to know it's true.  

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

The announcement reminds citizens that it is illegal to spread false information or induce panic online.

[]

Yet China’s government is still more concerned about keeping information from spreading rather than keeping the disease from spreading.  ...

 

There are laws in the US that prohibit spreading some forms of misinformation.  But the "public discourse" clause of the First does grant you the right to misinform each other almost all the time.

You don't know that - seems like they are doing something.  They now praise that dead Dr who they punished at first.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

6 minutes ago, Anthony Okrongly said:

  So, yea... you're still idiots. I don't have to watch you be idiots in order to know it's true.  

It's kind of like rubbernecking when you drive past a car accident. Horrible yet oddly entertaining.

[Anthony Okrongly + 114]

4 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

Debunked.

U.S. announces aid for China, other countries impacted by coronavirus

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States stands ready to spend up to $100 million to assist China and other countries impacted by coronavirus, U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced on Friday.  

“This commitment – along with the hundreds of millions generously donated by the American private sector – demonstrates strong U.S. leadership in response to the outbreak,” Pompeo said in a statement.  ...

 

Wow.. .UP TO 100 million dollars? Let's see ... the interest alone on the U.S. debt is about $500 billion per year.  Divided by 365 is $1,369 million dollars a day.  So the U.S. is committed to devote "as much as" 1 hour and 45 minutes of interest on our debt to solving this supposed global pandemic.  I think that's about right.  If you have spent more than 1 hour and 45 minutes in any way related to this virus you've overspent on your personal time.  But, the news makes a big deal about it, so the idiots who watch the news should too.  My time is a bit more valuable... so the 15 minutes I've spent on it is too much already.  Enjoy your "pandemic" 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Anthony Okrongly
idiots

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

1 hour ago, Anthony Okrongly said:

There's a word for this virus... for those who actually know something about viruses. It's called a "Polemic" virus. SARs was Polemic as well. That means that the virus does not have pool required to maintain itself.

With 35,000 new cases in two months, and 720 deaths reported by the Chinese, I'd have to surmise that this virus--no matter the polemic--has found a fairly effective gene pool in which to replicate and maintain itself. 

There have always been viruses that jump genus and species lines. Some (rabies, for example) do this routinely--back and forth--living in squirrels without harm, but causing hydrophobia in dogs and humans. Others run amok for awhile and then disappear, as you say, like the SARS virus. I'm not at all sure that there's a good way to determine which category this particular coronavirus falls into.

I began doing virus research in 1966. Even then, we were petrified at so-called zoonotic viruses coming from the DNA replication machinery of say bats, spending some interim time in a different host, say rabbits, with this intermediate host experience conferring the ability to cozy into humans' DNA. Since we had bats, rabbits and humans all living together in our research wing, sharing the same air, this was no idle concern. Put dozens of exotic wildlife--all harboring viruses--in a wet market and the odds go up that something bizarre will happen. 

Theoretically, any virus that has a DNA or RNA sequence that will fit into the stoichiometry of the host DNA can replicate using host machinery and render the host sick or dead. That reproductive ability has forever been called R Naught. Polio has an R Naught of 4. This new virus had one of 2.2 at the beginning. That's not to be sneezed at.

After three years of research on viruses, I went in a different direction, so I am not the last word on this. For example, I must confess that I am not familiar with the term, "polemic virus." I have no idea how someone could possibly predict whether a new rogue virus will "learn" to fit in, like the rabies virus, the Herpes viruses, or the HIV viruses. Or whether, when they try to wedge back into their original host genome, they find that they no longer "fit. It would seem that this latter encounter was the way of the SARS virus.

Maybe I've gotten so out of touch that I no longer know the lingo, much less the mechanism. However, I do know that this particular zoonotic virus is one mean sucker. If it was tinkered with, making its glycoprotein spicules more malevolent, then it may be around for a very long time. If it jumped, from a bat or a snake or even a pangolin (which apparently houses a virus with a 99% genetic match), then it could potentially just put itself out of commission via replication and/or mutation, never to be seen again. 

Having acquired a strong respect for the poliovirus, which causes a sore throat in some, but paralyzes others (and killed my brother of bulbar polio) I would be slow to dismiss this current specimen as a harmless traveler in the genes of man. The stakes are a bit too high.

[Otis11 + 551]

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

There are laws in the US that prohibit spreading some forms of misinformation.

While you are right technically (things like false advertisement are illegal), I am not aware of anything even remotely close to what china is doing here...

In the US you have the freedom to criticize the government, freely discuss political events, and even theorize about conspiracies... and if one so strikes your fancy, you can spread that conspiracy as far as you're willing (some have even proven true over time). 

This is so extremely different than what Tom was pointing out I struggle to find your point? (Unless it's to intentionally mislead the less informed to thinking what China is doing is normal or somehow ok?)

Trying not to jump to conclusions... will await your reply.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

23 minutes ago, Otis11 said:

While you are right technically (things like false advertisement are illegal), I am not aware of anything even remotely close to what china is doing here...

In the US you have the freedom to criticize the government, freely discuss political events, and even theorize about conspiracies... and if one so strikes your fancy, you can spread that conspiracy as far as you're willing (some have even proven true over time). 

This is so extremely different than what Tom was pointing out I struggle to find your point? (Unless it's to intentionally mislead the less informed to thinking what China is doing is normal or somehow ok?)

Trying not to jump to conclusions... will await your reply.

That is because you are right, there is nothing remotely close.

Slander, libel, false claims (especially when it comes to medicines) are enforced.  In many other countries disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace laws are stronger - not just communist nations.

Certainly, leaking classified information is illegal - and I'm sure the USA has plenty. " Should it have been classified" is a separate question. 

For example spilling the beans on most of these would have been punishable:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Enthalpic