Has Trump put the USA at the service of Israel?

[Marcin2 + 725]

On 2/9/2020 at 11:21 AM, frankfurter said:

 Certainly, the factors above make Trump the best 'friend' Israel ever had in history. But how far will this go? To war with Iran and Armageddon? 

Whatever you would say, I will always admire Jews, I really do.

After 1945, they have understood the lesson of persecution of Jews throughout the history, with the most tragic chapter being WW2 Holocaust (but not the only tragic chapter in 3000 years of their history).

Israeli diaspora has great influence over US centers of power, AIPAC major political force. And this is good, this is the matter of survival for Israel. And of course the nukes and strong conventional armed forces.

Ivanka and Jared are the first Jewish people that are so close to any US President. So this is not a big surprise that as senior advisors they have substantial influence over President.

Israeli-Iranian conflict is bad for business, I hope that new global Godfather - China would solve all problems.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Marcin2
typo

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

2 hours ago, BLA said:

We can be friends

But Billions $ for a friendship

Have you looked at the disrepair your local bridges, roads and schools are in ?

 

Have you looked at the hidden cost of sanctuary cities and the cost of trying to impeach Trump, the Judge Kavanaugh fiasco, the cost of NATO, the cost of the UN, the cost of other foreign aid to those that oppose us, etc...

[BLA + 1,666]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Have you looked at the hidden cost of sanctuary cities and the cost of trying to impeach Trump, the Judge Kavanaugh fiasco, the cost of NATO, the cost of the UN, the cost of other foreign aid to those that oppose us, etc...

I agree, those dollar cost are big . . . But the cost to the U.S. citizens are 1000 times bigger

BUT what does that have to do with spend ten's of billions $ every year defending Isreal while our infrastructure crumbles. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by BLA

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

10 minutes ago, BLA said:

The dollar cost are big . . . But the cost to the U.S. citizens are 1000 times bigger

What does that have to do with spend ten's of billions $ every year defending Isreal while our infrastructure crumbles. 

Well, you apparently feel that throwing Israel to the wolves is the answer for rebuilding our infrastructure. Your argument suggests that by supporting our only real ally in the region is what is ‘crumbling’ our infrastructure.

My argument is that we could save some money and rebuild our infrastructure by reducing our commitment to our fair weather allies in NATO, reduce our funding to the UN (which is nothing but a toothless, politically correct adversary of US interests) and stop foreign aid to others who not only give nothing in return, but for decades have done nothing to better themselves (just where did all this money go?).

Could you explain your comment, “

 

The dollar cost are big . . . But the cost to the U.S. citizens are 1000 times bigger

[BLA + 1,666]

9 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Well, you apparently feel that throwing Israel to the wolves is the answer for rebuilding our infrastructure. Your argument suggests that by supporting our only real ally in the region is what is ‘crumbling’ our infrastructure.

My argument is that we could save some money and rebuild our infrastructure by reducing our commitment to our fair weather allies in NATO, reduce our funding to the UN (which is nothing but a toothless, politically correct adversary of US interests) and stop foreign aid to others who not only give nothing in return, but for decades have done nothing to better themselves (just where did all this money go?).

Could you explain your comment, “

 

The dollar cost are big . . . But the cost to the U.S. citizens are 1000 times bigger

Agree

 Cut back NATO and all foreign aid including Israel.

It's 2020 not the 1950's.   How much foreign aid does EU, Russia pr China give out .   None.  

They invest in Africa, Asia and South America.

Especially China.  The Chinese Communist Party owns half of the businesses and industry.  Why does U.S. and WTO treat them as a normal Market Economy.  

Oh, I forgot.  Joe Biden says , "China is not competition to the U.S. " 

Disregard my rambling.  Joe Biden (and Hunter) are right. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

16 minutes ago, BLA said:

Agree

 Cut back NATO and all foreign aid including Israel.

It's 2020 not the 1950's.   How much foreign aid does EU, Russia pr China give out .   None.  

They invest in Africa, Asia and South America.

Especially China.  The Chinese Communist Party owns half of the businesses and industry.  Why does U.S. and WTO treat them as a normal Market Economy.  

Oh, I forgot.  Joe Biden says , "China is not competition to the U.S. " 

Disregard my rambling.  Joe Biden (and Hunter) are right. 

You’d better research how much US financial aid goes to Africa, Asia and South America.

Supporting TRUE allies is ‘good business’ unless we want to go it alone in the future. Being part of NATO is a good idea as long as we do not end up funding it OR do the lion’s share of the fighting.

[BLA + 1,666]

8 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

You’d better research how much US financial aid goes to Africa, Asia and South America.

Supporting TRUE allies is ‘good business’ unless we want to go it alone in the future. Being part of NATO is a good idea as long as we do not end up funding it OR do the lion’s share of the fighting.

Respectfully disagree.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

So you believe that the US should TOTALLY isolate itself from the global arena?

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

57 minutes ago, BLA said:

It's 2020 not the 1950's.   How much foreign aid does EU, Russia pr China give out .   None.  

Do you want to reconsider that statement? 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Rasmus, that would require effort on the part of BLA. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

2 hours ago, BLA said:

It's 2020 not the 1950's.   How much foreign aid does EU, Russia pr China give out .   None.  

Utter BS

See attached

https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

[BLA + 1,666]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So you believe that the US should TOTALLY isolate itself from the global arena?

So your logic reasons that:

No foreign aid handouts equates to isolation. 

Your logic implies ALL NATIONS OF THE WORLD ARE ISOLATIONIST except the U.S.

You say how great NATO is IF  the U.S. doesn't pay for it all or does all the fighting.  Guess what can't base foreign policy on a lot of IFs.  

U.S. does all the fighting and pays for almost all of it.  

pretzel logic

Edited February 11, 2020 by BLA

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Rasmus, that would require effort on the part of BLA. I wouldn’t hold my breath.

All I'm reading is bla bla bla from BLA

[BLA + 1,666]

18 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

All I'm reading is bla bla bla from BLA

Feeding the hungry

Giving refugees shelter 

Is not what we're talking about.

Writing blank checks to corrupt governments that fill their personal pockets with U.S. cash is the problem.  

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

15 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Ivanka and Jared are the first Jewish people that are so close to any US President

Umm never heard of Henry Kissinger? Madeline Albright? I don't actually have the time to keep correcting you. BTW Ivanka is Trump's daughter as I recall and your logic goes into pretzel mode if you're now claiming Trump is Jewish. Or are you talking about her mom? I never heard she was Jewish, nor would I have cared. 

[BLA + 1,666]

46 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Utter BS

See attached

https://ec.europa.eu/echo/news/eu-adopts-record-budget-humanitarian-aid-2019_en

UNITED STATES FOREIGN AID

EU 1.6 Billion EUROS  vs U.S. $54 Billion dollars

Plus U.S. in ADDITION:

$10 Billon to U.N. per year

$30 Billion Mideast/Israel defense shipping lanes per year

$4 Billion NATO administration per year

$28 Billion European Military Bases and Missile Defense system per year

Etc

Of the $54 Billion official aid the top 5 recipients recieve:

Iraq $5.3 Billion (While Joe Biden was VP his brother received $1.5 Billion contract to build housing in Iraq. His brother had zero experience as a builder or in construction industry)

Afghanistan $5.1 Billion (ends up in leaders hands and they take it out of country in brown bag.  U.S. has eyes on their abundant Rare Earth elements)

Israel $3.1 Billion (was $1 Billion, then Obama tripled to shut them up after he signed Iran nuke deal)

Egypt $ 1.2 Billion ( not sure why.  Their oil and gas business booming)

Jordan $1.2 Billion  ( number seems high. They do take in refugees)

Almost 1/3 of standard aid to these 5 

 

Do you think U.S. gets a good return on investment ?

All this while U.S.  infrastructure is crumbling.

Trying to make a point by taking the extreme argument.  The point being the U.S. needs to reevaluate its Foreign expenditures and foreign military bases based on today's realities.  Not the archaic norms of the 1950s and 1960s when the U.S. was the dominant economic power by far.

Edited February 11, 2020 by BLA

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 minute ago, BLA said:

Do you think U.S. gets a good return on investment ?

All this while our infrastructure is crumbling. 

Did I ever say you were??

In fact I have been on here berating the likes of Germany and Canada for not paying their way in NATO when others are, and in the case of the US way more than they are required to. I think however the US is happy to do this to maintain stability in the EU and exercise political pressure over EU countries.

This is your governments decision who are voted in our out by you the voters, dont start blaming other countries for your own governments decision making!

If your infrastructure is crumbling then get onto your local senator or vote the fuc*er out if he/she does nothing. Or alternatively start a social media campaign shaming those in local government.

Also I did not state that the EU/ Russia/ China offers no aide abroad, that was you, and I was correcting your incorrect statement.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

Yup: Foreign aid: Cut it 100%.  It is nothing but bribery and corruption for the most part. 

[GeneralLevy + 5]

USA seemed pretty keen on aid for Ukraine? 😆 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 2/11/2020 at 7:40 AM, BLA said:

We can be friends

But Billions $ for a friendship

Have you looked at the disrepair your local bridges, roads and schools are in ?

 

Where my folks live in Colorado, it seems that they raise taxes for educational reasons every year or so in a never ending cycle...it’s for ‘education’ so politically correct.

I call bullshit on this. If you are constantly raising taxes on all residents (those with, or without, children) then there should be a mechanism to show results. Are children getting higher test scores (assuming that it is not politically incorrect to test children)? Are high school students scoring higher on the ACT/SAT tests? And so on..

Many high schools have so many unnecessary extra-curricular programs that are simply fluff that it is mind boggling. If you do not have enough funding to educate the kids - get rid of the non-essential stuff!

What is wrong with going back to ‘old school’ (pun intended)? Six blocks of time dedicated to the core required classes: English, Social Studies, Science, Math, Gym and an elective like Home Economics, Auto Class, any of the trades.

This would be just as effective in preparing children, save money and perhaps give the teachers a raise. 

[Marcin2 + 725]

10 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Umm never heard of Henry Kissinger? Madeline Albright? I don't actually have the time to keep correcting you. BTW Ivanka is Trump's daughter as I recall and your logic goes into pretzel mode if you're now claiming Trump is Jewish. Or are you talking about her mom? I never heard she was Jewish, nor would I have cared. 

Ivanka converted to judaism before marriage with Jared.

Ivanka and Jared are immediate family of Donald Trump, so these are relations more like between Robert Kennedy and JFK.

This also has a lot of to do with Israeli situation and politics cause Israeli-US politics is not about new trade deal or hegemony like with China-US but existential threats to Jewish people.

So automatically everything Israeli related becomes personal for Trump.

It would be even stupid for this administration to openly say that under Trump Israeli-US politics is business as usual, professional politics that takes under consideration American interests only.

Being a Jew is about religion, not the Israeli citizenship.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Where my folks live in Colorado, it seems that they raise taxes for educational reasons every year or so in a never ending cycle...it’s for ‘education’ so politically correct.

I call bullshit on this. If you are constantly raising taxes on all residents (those with, or without, children) then there should be a mechanism to show results. Are children getting higher test scores (assuming that it is not politically incorrect to test children)? Are high school students scoring higher on the ACT/SAT tests? And so on..

Many high schools have so many unnecessary extra-curricular programs that are simply fluff that it is mind boggling. If you do not have enough funding to educate the kids - get rid of the non-essential stuff!

What is wrong with going back to ‘old school’ (pun intended)? Six blocks of time dedicated to the core required classes: English, Social Studies, Science, Math, Gym and an elective like Home Economics, Auto Class, any of the trades.

This would be just as effective in preparing children, save money and perhaps give the teachers a raise. 

The money is not for the teachers, rather administrators.  It has never been about the teachers.  Private schools all pay their teachers far less than Public schools and get far better results. The public money is going to giant stadiums, etc.  If you want, look up % administrator cost at the collegiate level and why cost of tuition is increasing. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

“So automatically everything Israeli related becomespersonal for Trump.“

This is nonsense! My wife is Malaysian Chinese, hardly anything to do with the politics in Malaysia even holds my interest. You are making the leap of logic that just because a member of you family is associated with some organization or clique, you are somehow a member as well.

If your brother was a serial axe murderer, does this imply that you also have criminal tendencies?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

 

”Being a Jew is about religion, not the Israeli citizenship.”

Technically you are correct. That said, the term Jew is often used interchangeably with Israeli. There are Israeli Arabs and ‘Arab’ Jews (Kurdistan comes to mind).

The point you make is difficult, do people hate Jews, Israelis or simple the entire State of Israel?

One thing that forever baffles me is that people hate Jews, but when pressed on the issue, can never define why? 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Marcin2 said:

Ivanka converted to judaism before marriage with Jared.

Ivanka and Jared are immediate family of Donald Trump, so these are relations more like between Robert Kennedy and JFK.

This also has a lot of to do with Israeli situation and politics cause Israeli-US politics is not about new trade deal or hegemony like with China-US but existential threats to Jewish people.

So automatically everything Israeli related becomes personal for Trump.

It would be even stupid for this administration to openly say that under Trump Israeli-US politics is business as usual, professional politics that takes under consideration American interests only.

Being a Jew is about religion, not the Israeli citizenship.

Umm just no. 

Robert Kennedy held a cabinet post. Do you see Ivanka in a cabinet post? Jared? Didn't think so. Jimmy Carter had a brother, Billy. Do you think anyone gave a shite what Billy thought about anything?

Trump agreed to follow through on the promise made to put the embassy in Jerusalem. It was passed by Congress decades before but every prior President was too chickensht to do it. 

Jew is not a religion. There are probably millions of "Jews" who are 100% atheist. They live all over the world, not just in Israel. Judaism is the religion most "Jews" follow. You got that right, up above, when you said Ivanka converted to "Judaism" then you forgot by your last sentence?