Solar Cells at 25 Cents Apiece (5 cents per watt)

[Meredith Poor + 895]

25 cents / 4.81 is slightly over 5 cents per watt. I have no idea whether this ad is lowball or not. I find several vendors at 30 to 36 cents per piece, which works out to around 7 to 8 cents per watt, and most of those remaining at 50 to 60 cents per piece, or 12 cents per watt.

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

So can we practically build a 1000 MW solar farm out of this? That's for you to demonstrate. 

[Meredith Poor + 895]

29 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

So can we practically build a 1000 MW solar farm out of this? That's for you to demonstrate. 

I pasted a screen shot of a price that I've seen posted. Readers are invited to draw their own conclusions. I have no further agenda in this posting.

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

Fair. I wasn't trying to be toxic, I'm just not sure what to make of this. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

12 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

So can we practically build a 1000 MW solar farm out of this? That's for you to demonstrate. 

If you go on Alibaba, it is even cheaper.  Tells me they cannot sell them and have immense oversupply or massive massive massive amounts of subsidies currently.  The only other way is if the cost of silicon is now cheaper than bottled water...  Made on 200mm fabs, on tech from the west and I have not seen anyone crowing about cost of silicon, in energy required, dropping through the floor, it must be massive subsidies.  At these prices even with the glass, etc. and purchasing a spot welder as they have moved to aluminum backed instead of copper, their payback period, assuming your labor = $zero/hour is ~2 years.  3 at the most. 

At these prices it should be cheaper to coat your roof in this than with steel.  Yet, someone just posted their Solar Roof version 3, the one that supposedly is "fast to install", and it took 17 days, cost $85,000, got them 12KW, and they had to pay extra for a 2nd Tesla powerwall on a home that is probably less than 2000square feet judging from their video of the job(roof was 2500square feet).............  For this price, you can get a steel roof(hundred+++ yrs), a Tesla 3 and the Solar/powerwalls...  Something is drastically wrong here. 

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

22 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

If you go on Alibaba, it is even cheaper.  Tells me they cannot sell them and have immense oversupply or massive massive massive amounts of subsidies currently.  The only other way is if the cost of silicon is now cheaper than bottled water...  Made on 200mm fabs, on tech from the west and I have not seen anyone crowing about cost of silicon, in energy required, dropping through the floor, it must be massive subsidies.  At these prices even with the glass, etc. and purchasing a spot welder as they have moved to aluminum backed instead of copper, their payback period, assuming your labor = $zero/hour is ~2 years.  3 at the most. 

At these prices it should be cheaper to coat your roof in this than with steel.  Yet, someone just posted their Solar Roof version 3, the one that supposedly is "fast to install", and it took 17 days, cost $85,000, got them 12KW, and they had to pay extra for a 2nd Tesla powerwall on a home that is probably less than 2000square feet judging from their video of the job(roof was 2500square feet).............  For this price, you can get a steel roof(hundred+++ yrs), a Tesla 3 and the Solar/powerwalls...  Something is drastically wrong here. 

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me so confused. I see Meredith talk about $1 per watt, and then backing it up with information on sheets or posting what he did here. Then I talk to a multimillionaire, a friend of my father's, who installs solar panels and get drastically different figures. Then I hear about Tesla's solar roof. What is going on? I can't make any proper judgments because I don't know which one is true.

Edited February 11, 2020 by KeyboardWarrior

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

50 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me so confused. I see Meredith talk about $1 per watt, and then backing it up with information on sheets or posting what he did here. Then I talk to a multimillionaire, a friend of my father's, who installs solar panels and get drastically different figures. Then I hear about Tesla's solar roof. What is going on? I can't make any proper judgments because I don't know which one is true.

One is an assembly, the other is a part and the other is a shipped, installed system... what the hell is there to be confused about? 

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

3 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

One is an assembly, the other is a part and the other is a shipped, installed system... what the hell is there to be confused about? 

I'm not confused about that, I'm confused about the constant contradictions in cost. Kind of a strange response. 

[EDIT] Wait I didn't read your response correctly. Got it. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by KeyboardWarrior

[Meredith Poor + 895]

1 hour ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

This is exactly the kind of thing that makes me so confused. I see Meredith talk about $1 per watt, and then backing it up with information on sheets or posting what he did here. Then I talk to a multimillionaire, a friend of my father's, who installs solar panels and get drastically different figures. Then I hear about Tesla's solar roof. What is going on? I can't make any proper judgments because I don't know which one is true.

Solar prices, like other energy prices, are volatile. That's one reason I post screen shots as I did here. What is listed in the screen shot is cells, not panels, and not 'complete systems'. If an individual living in a 1000 square food manufactured home or apartment uses 1Mwh per month, they use 33Kwh per day, on average. 33,000 / 5 hours = 6600 watts. 6600 x .05 = $330. The point of this is that the cost of cells is now 'beneath notice'. The end consumer is paying for services - design, installation, and warranty, which cost thousands of dollars. Component prices are shrinking, and make up less and less of the installed cost.

Utility scale solar runs less than $1 per watt. Residential solar runs from $3 to $4 per watt. Utility solar is vast expanses of panels on otherwise vacant real estate. Residential solar, in addition to being smaller scale, also requires city permits, people working on roofs, and so forth.

Also, the listing shown does not include shipping costs, and if imported into the US, tariffs or other barriers. Most countries don't put tariffs on solar panel imports, or import duties that are out of line with fees for other imports. This means that lesser developed countries (to the extent this term is still usable) have an advantage if someone there knows how to set these up. This will eventually affect the US's competitiveness.

[George8944 + 128]

On 2/11/2020 at 11:38 AM, Meredith Poor said:

What is listed in the screen shot is cells, not panels, and not 'complete systems'

Amen!  This is why I too am confused with purpose for posting.  Someone else said they didn't know what to do with this tidbit and I agree.  It's a non sequitur when posted without telling us a little about why you're posting or what you are thinking.  ( I finally did some of that! ) 

Nobody is going to buy a bunch of individual cells to build residential or commercial size panel.  Besides, not all solar cells are the same.  You are simply looking at watts, but one also needs to consider efficiency, performance over various temperatures, humidity, isolation, etc.   What is shown here are for a hobbyist.  This product won't compete with the likes of First Solar, Jinko or any other large scale panel makers.

Learn more:  https://news.energysage.com/best-solar-panel-manufacturers-usa/

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

7 hours ago, George8944 said:

Nobody is going to buy a bunch of individual cells to build residential or commercial size panel. 

Paying yourself to build something useful which pays you back $$ that otherwise goes out the door, beats the Hell out of sitting on your ass watching youtube videos or football games.  If you really want to save $$$, buy used solar panels.  Of course you have to have the area for them....

Depends: do you want power cheaply or not?  Not difficult to make once you have the cells.  This is no different than building your own powerwall from used batteries.  A little extra work and you can build your own inverter and MPPT controller as well.  Why?  Because what you are buying are all MASSIVELY overpriced products if you already have the wiring diagram and have the board made(look online, several out there).  Buy the chips, solder in place.  Why?  At this point the inverter/MPPT controllers are more expensive or just as expensive as the panels.  The only possible way to make your own panels cheaper is if you do not use new glass, but rather used, and used you cannot cut without it shattering, and then obviously you better live in a region without large hail because the glass you can get for free is not tempered. 

 

[cbrasher1 + 272]

solar energy 😂😂

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/solar/crescent-dunes-another-obama-solar-failure/

[George8944 + 128]

On 2/15/2020 at 7:55 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Paying yourself to build something useful which pays you back $$ that otherwise goes out the door, beats the Hell out of sitting on your ass watching youtube videos or football games.  If you really want to save $$$, buy used solar panels.  Of course you have to have the area for them....

LOL!   I hope you are a good electrical engineer for the wiring and design.  All those assumptions of things that can be ignored (like the resistance in wire or the electrical connections) can't really be ignored if you want to build it safely!   Also, there is a substantial difference between wiring up a 20W hobby project and 100KW house.   I'm not saying it can't be done.  I'm saying most people do not have the skill to build out panels from single cells.

As for using used solar panels,  you will be in luck.  What to do with old solar panels is currently a problem waiting to be solved in the industry.  Place an ad offering to buy them and solve this problem.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

1 hour ago, George8944 said:

LOL!   I hope you are a good electrical engineer for the wiring and design.  All those assumptions of things that can be ignored

Yup: You are demonstrating one of the quintessential reasons why I prefer people who live rural, poor yet work hard, or who are foreign born from non western countries. Life has not let us be complacent, ignorant, and pampered.

PS: Those "designs" are freely available.... can you follow instructions? Can you buy components? Soldering... so difficult even your grand daddy could do it, your daddy could do it, and so can foreigners, just not the "modern" whimpering scared afraid of their own shadows "new" westerners...

[Meredith Poor + 895]

1 hour ago, George8944 said:

Also, there is a substantial difference between wiring up a 20W hobby project and 100KW house.

Yeah, that 100KW house might need some engineering help. A 1Mwh monthly utility bill translates to 30Kwh per day, or 6Kw x 5 hours. So one might need a really big house if they're wiring up 100Kw. Perhaps you mean the 'big house', aka penitentiary. Then you'd need 100Kw, particularly for the peripheral lighting.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

20 hours ago, cbrasher1 said:

solar energy 😂😂

https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/solar/crescent-dunes-another-obama-solar-failure/

Sad story, that.  Sad that they took nearly $1 billion of taxpayer money and threw it into a pit of hope.  There is nothing more wasteful than a wishful lefty with OPM!  Especially a wishful lefty that has never had a job or run a business in their lives, working only in charity and volunteer ranks.  Volunteer if you wish, and good on you, but leave my money out of it, I say.

Conclusion

Like Solyndra, Crescent Dunes is another Obama Administration failure in solar energy development. Despite Crescent Dunes’ power being priced over 4 times as high as the nearest photovoltaic plant in Nevada, the Obama Administration chose to invest in it with taxpayers’ money to further its development of renewable technology. It is well known that the government has a poor track record for picking winners and losers, and Solyndra and Crescent Dunes are notable examples. Americans should be cautious about government attempts to pursue technology in the name of climate change, a recipe for many more Crescent Dunes fiascoes.

[George8944 + 128]

6 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

So one might need a really big house if they're wiring up 100Kw

You are correct.  I was thinking of amperage - the 100A service of my own house.  That's about 22 kWh maximum load   Using your number, even a 30 kWh demands respect.  This is why we have a National Electrical code to keep homes from burning down.

So going back to the original post,  these cells are 5 W.  Getting to your 6 kWh would require a minimum of 1200 cells and then they all need to wired, seal them from the environment and structurally secured to the roof of your home.  In addition,  it will probably take more than 1200 since reaching the correct wattage since having 1200 is no guarantee the end result with be at the desired voltage and current.   These little cells are for a small home hobby.