CoV-19: China, WHO, myth vs fact

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

5 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

NYT subscription article.  Full article saved on Archive.today for free.

CCP is going to be furious.

U.S. Designates China’s Official Media as Operatives of the Communist State

Trump doesn't even like US reporters. 

NYT is "fake news" except for when it's something trump likes, at which time he holds the thing up in front of crowds to brag.  

Controlling the media is a good tactic... not the first time it has been done by dubious leaders.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Bob D + 562]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Omaha always gets the infectious cases--special hospital.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/483527-evacuated-americans-head-to-omaha-for-treatment

Story at a glance

• Evacuees from the Diamond Princess Cruise ship were flown to the National Quarantine Unity in Nebraska for observation.
• One of the best hospitals for virus outbreaks, the National Quarantine Unit treated Ebola patients in 2014.
• The admitted Americans will be quarantined for another 14 days as some citizens chose to stay behind on the Diamond Princess in Japan.

Thirteen Americans who were evacuated from the Diamond Princess cruise ship on U.S. charter flights are being tested and treated for COVID-19, according to the University of Nebraska Medical Center 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

22 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Controlling the media is a good tactic... not the first time it has been done by dubious leaders.

China Expels 3 WSJ Reporters Over "Racist" Opinion Piece

... It seems Beijing has taken a page out of the American SJW's playbook: Once somebody's accused of racism, logical inquiry ends. ...

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

Trump doesn't even like US reporters. 

NYT is "fake news" except for when it's something trump likes, at which time he holds the thing up in front of crowds to brag.  

Controlling the media is a good tactic... not the first time it has been done by dubious leaders.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/exclusive-chinese-regime-deploys-1600-internet-trolls-to-suppress-information-on-coronavirus_3242454.html

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

COVID19 Scientific Context

Good general background

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

26 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

COVID19 Scientific Context

Good general background

Good link, thanks.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

4 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Trump doesn't even like US reporters. 

NYT is "fake news" except for when it's something trump likes, at which time he holds the thing up in front of crowds to brag.  

Controlling the media is a good tactic... not the first time it has been done by dubious leaders.

Well, when 90% of the mainstream media has attacked you since you won the Republican candidacy it might be a good idea to strike back. Fortunately Donald Trump is the best counter puncher President that I know of. Most Americans now realize how the media works and what sides they take on the various issues. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

56 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

COVID19 Scientific Context

Good general background

Thanks. That's a great overview. Might emphasize the fact that since this virus is a single-stranded RNA virus, that makes it even more likely to jump lines, because he's right, the replication enzyme is less particular about stoichiometry. Hopefully a vaccine directed against one of the glycoprotein spikes will work for all coronaviruses. These things are just flat scary, and seem to be getting more aggressive.

I responded to another thread about coal-fired utility plants. The USA has 15 remaining. China has 3,363. They were in the process of adding 1,771 more when this virus hit. 

If my armchair hypothesis about this Covid-19 being a virus that hits smokers and the lungs of those working in high industrial pollution areas--a Damaged Lung Viral Syndrome--then they could go a long way by sharply decreasing their pollution. And no better way than switching from coal to LNG. Makes no sense to be using coal-fired utility plants (with high sulfur content) on the one hand and charging EV's with the electricity on the other. I'm sure that will dawn on them without my exquisite insight.  

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Even if you can't understand the words, you can feel the raw emotion 

From this woman in Wuhan

Oh, Just figured out they've put in subtitles, even easier. 

Let's see what hotdog has to say about this. For all we know she's already under arrest, or worse. 

Watch it quick, it's only a matter of time before Google caves in to China and deletes it. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Ward Smith

[ronwagn + 6,290]

14 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Even if you can't understand the words, you can feel the raw emotion 

From this woman in Wuhan

Oh, Just figured out they've put in subtitles, even easier. 

Let's see what hotdog has to say about this. For all we know she's already under arrest, or worse. 

Watch it quick, it's only a matter of time before Google caves in to China and deletes it. 

A real Chinese patriot. I often wonder how many of us would be this brave under such a repressive regime. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

A real Chinese patriot. I often wonder how many of us would be this brave under such a repressive regime. 

Understand thoroughly that our founding fathers were exactly this brave. Patrick Henry didn't just say "Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!" 

His life was forfeit once the British caught him. They'd hang "traitors" on the spot once caught. Not that different when you think about it. Unfortunately for China to be truly great, they'll need the experience of freeing themselves. America has bad luck "freeing" others because they just don't appreciate it. Nothing makes you appreciate freedom like risking your life to achieve it! 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

9 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Omaha always gets the infectious cases--special hospital.

Hadn't heard of that place before.  But Google is my friend:

Why treat people exposed to virus in Omaha? Why not?

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Even if you can't understand the words, you can feel the raw emotion 

From this woman in Wuhan

Oh, Just figured out they've put in subtitles, even easier. 

Let's see what hotdog has to say about this. For all we know she's already under arrest, or worse. 

Watch it quick, it's only a matter of time before Google caves in to China and deletes it. 

Powerful.  It's time to move on, Beijing.  Your beloved Deng Xiao Ping opened China to the world.  That worked out tremendously well.  If you want your country to survive and prosper, start moving to national elections.  Allow autonomy and local governments to be selected by a free-to-vote electorate.  Everyone in the CCP is assured of their wealth and influence, and the people will most likely let you keep it, or you can do a runner to another country like so many before you.

I support the Chinese people in this time of crisis,  and I hope they can evolve into a more free country as rapidly as humanly possible, which, in the case of the Chinese, is pretty darn fast once unleashed.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Dan Warnick

[0R0 + 6,251]

19 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Even if you can't understand the words, you can feel the raw emotion 

From this woman in Wuhan

Oh, Just figured out they've put in subtitles, even easier. 

Let's see what hotdog has to say about this. For all we know she's already under arrest, or worse. 

Watch it quick, it's only a matter of time before Google caves in to China and deletes it. 

Note that that rage directed at the CCP is common among the Chinese millennials posting comments beyond the Great firewall of China. They recognize it as being the first time that the CCP suppression of free speech is actually a physically deadly policy for everyone. That rage was absent before. 

The consequences for the CCP will be dire. This woman exploded emotionally at home. Most will surreptitiously sabotage the party and its officials and grass roots committees. Expect unreported discoveries of residential communist party committee member's bodies at the foot of their apartment buildings, knifed on the street, run over. Offices mysteriously lit on fire. I don't know how cyber-resistance will look like. But I am certain that the tech savvy censors will not all sit by while this information passes in front of their eyes. Some will make an effort to collect the info and pass it out of China and into the "dark web" there. 

[GunnysGhost + 157]

On 2/19/2020 at 6:26 AM, Hotone said:

The US has 'upgraded' China from being a strategic competitor to being a strategic enemy.  It is now waging war against China on multiple fronts.   https://www.presstv.com/Detail/2020/02/16/618822/US-waging-war-against-China

There is no way the CDC can be allowed into China.  Just recall the harm that the US has done to do many other countries recently and think of the mischief that they want to wreak on China.

This this is satire right?  

Why is it that anti-US folks always stereotype by rolling up entire people's into their government style? 

The government of China is different from the Chinese people.   How many times does DJT say 'we stand with the people of [Iran/Venezuela/HK] against their government. 

The US considers the Communist PARTY a strategic enemy.  The US seeks to win the hearts and minds of those from Hong Kong, Chinese independent journalists, Chinese youth, Tibetans and Uigers.

The only mischief the CDC would do is heal people... the one thing the CCP can't do, and therefore can't allow.  They can't allow the US to prove they care more for the individual than the CCP does.  

Edited February 21, 2020 by GunnysGhost

[ronwagn + 6,290]

4 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Note that that rage directed at the CCP is common among the Chinese millennials posting comments beyond the Great firewall of China. They recognize it as being the first time that the CCP suppression of free speech is actually a physically deadly policy for everyone. That rage was absent before. 

The consequences for the CCP will be dire. This woman exploded emotionally at home. Most will surreptitiously sabotage the party and its officials and grass roots committees. Expect unreported discoveries of residential communist party committee member's bodies at the foot of their apartment buildings, knifed on the street, run over. Offices mysteriously lit on fire. I don't know how cyber-resistance will look like. But I am certain that the tech savvy censors will not all sit by while this information passes in front of their eyes. Some will make an effort to collect the info and pass it out of China and into the "dark web" there. 

Fortunately the Chinese are very adept with computer use and programming etc. The dark web is probably accessed there more frequently. I don't know about how easy it is to trace someone in China though. Probably just as easy as here, depending on the skills used one either end. 

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 2/16/2020 at 8:34 AM, GunnysGhost said:

Agreed.  I see the biggest issue is if it stays viable on airplane seatbelt buckles for longer than a few hours (i.e. another route of transmission than person-person)

 

9 days is the latest I have heard.

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 2/16/2020 at 11:27 AM, Gerry Maddoux said:

Well, there's this: pretty soon springtime will be coming--I saw a few buds this morning. Sunshine and rising humidity are nature's best antivirals. 

There is always light at the end of the tunnel. But the IEA is jumping on the bandwagon, in their inimitable fashion. 

And I hope China begins to recover. Like the US in the aftermath of the poliovirus epidemic, I hope they join hands with the other countries of the world to try to make sure this doesn't happen again. Our CDC is the finest in the world. But Chinese people are generally very smart, so there's no reason not to share data and try to squelch this thing. Last I heard, they had still refused our CDC in there . . . and there's just no way to spin that but negatively, because the CDC is really the greatest organization regarding communicable diseases in the world. 

The greatest shot in the arm to the world economy and certainly to the oil and gas market would be to work together. And damn it, if they can't use some LNG right now, everyone should just back off and eat it. Later on, when they are on their feet, they pay a little more. That's just me. I'm probably an idiot in business.

The CCP will pick and choose which countries they can afford to refuse LNG from. So far, only seems to be Qatar and USA (25% tariffs remain). Last I heard, there were 8 LNG carriers parked off Qatari coast.

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 2/18/2020 at 12:29 PM, George8944 said:

Just call me insensitive and greedy.   I am less concerned about the human death toll, then the economic toll.   As we are seeing in China, it is hard to restart an economy while people are still getting sick.  Personally, I think this will eventually crash the markets if China can't reboot very soon.  

I put very tight stop loss orders on everything in my 401K and IRAs.  Since I'm still at risk to a real, big time, gap-down crash,  I'm still concerned.  My other alternative is going to cash, which, depending upon my alcohol consumption, sometimes sounds like a very good idea.   I've pretty much written off this year.  If I can close out 2020 with as much money as I started, I will be dang happy.   

US 10-year treasuries still paying 1.5%, I wld put 20% in them and the rest in tobacco companies, J&J, utilities etc. I reckon the tech bubble gonna burst by X-mas!

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 2/20/2020 at 11:40 AM, Gerry Maddoux said:

Thanks. That's a great overview. Might emphasize the fact that since this virus is a single-stranded RNA virus, that makes it even more likely to jump lines, because he's right, the replication enzyme is less particular about stoichiometry. Hopefully a vaccine directed against one of the glycoprotein spikes will work for all coronaviruses. These things are just flat scary, and seem to be getting more aggressive.

I responded to another thread about coal-fired utility plants. The USA has 15 remaining. China has 3,363. They were in the process of adding 1,771 more when this virus hit. 

If my armchair hypothesis about this Covid-19 being a virus that hits smokers and the lungs of those working in high industrial pollution areas--a Damaged Lung Viral Syndrome--then they could go a long way by sharply decreasing their pollution. And no better way than switching from coal to LNG. Makes no sense to be using coal-fired utility plants (with high sulfur content) on the one hand and charging EV's with the electricity on the other. I'm sure that will dawn on them without my exquisite insight.  

Actually Gerry, that is not how the CCP view the world. They don't like being the worlds largest importer of oil (for both geo-political, economic, and security reasons), so "filling the car with electricity" from mainly domestic coal makes perfect sense.

[Wombat + 1,028]

21 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Powerful.  It's time to move on, Beijing.  Your beloved Deng Xiao Ping opened China to the world.  That worked out tremendously well.  If you want your country to survive and prosper, start moving to national elections.  Allow autonomy and local governments to be selected by a free-to-vote electorate.  Everyone in the CCP is assured of their wealth and influence, and the people will most likely let you keep it, or you can do a runner to another country like so many before you.

I support the Chinese people in this time of crisis,  and I hope they can evolve into a more free country as rapidly as humanly possible, which, in the case of the Chinese, is pretty darn fast once unleashed.

I whole-heatedly agree with the sentiment even though I think it just a pipe-dream now that "1984" has arrived?!?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

If these Chinese people are even given a whiff of a chance, the government better hold on for the ride!

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 2/20/2020 at 6:24 AM, Dan Warnick said:

Powerful.  It's time to move on, Beijing.  Your beloved Deng Xiao Ping opened China to the world.  That worked out tremendously well.  If you want your country to survive and prosper, start moving to national elections.  Allow autonomy and local governments to be selected by a free-to-vote electorate.  Everyone in the CCP is assured of their wealth and influence, and the people will most likely let you keep it, or you can do a runner to another country like so many before you.

I support the Chinese people in this time of crisis,  and I hope they can evolve into a more free country as rapidly as humanly possible, which, in the case of the Chinese, is pretty darn fast once unleashed.

Dan be careful what you wish for!

I agree with the sentiment however if China ended up as a democracy they would become a major threat to America's dominance.

Personally I dont think it will happen in my lifetime. People in power tend to cling onto that power through whatever means they deem necessary, think Assad, Castro, Mugabe, Kim Jong Un, and even Putin.

Remember Tiananmen Square?

Edited February 21, 2020 by Rob Plant

[0R0 + 6,251]

5 hours ago, Wombat said:

On 2/20/2020 at 1:24 AM, Dan Warnick said:

Powerful.  It's time to move on, Beijing.  Your beloved Deng Xiao Ping opened China to the world.  That worked out tremendously well.  If you want your country to survive and prosper, start moving to national elections.  Allow autonomy and local governments to be selected by a free-to-vote electorate.  Everyone in the CCP is assured of their wealth and influence, and the people will most likely let you keep it, or you can do a runner to another country like so many before you.

I support the Chinese people in this time of crisis,  and I hope they can evolve into a more free country as rapidly as humanly possible, which, in the case of the Chinese, is pretty darn fast once unleashed.

I whole-heatedly agree with the sentiment even though I think it just a pipe-dream now that "1984" has arrived?!?

Which is why I worry that China will close up to the world in order to protect the CCP and allow nobody out to transport offline information to the people, Like N. Korea. The CCP is not sustainable after this 4th fiasco in public health and food security (covid 19, current bird flu outbreak, swine fever - also spread it to neighboring  countries, and green rot attacking rice and other crops). They can't haave this level of control and 10% of the population touring abroad each year.

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Dan be careful what you wish for!

I agree with the sentiment however if China ended up as a democracy they would become a major threat to America's dominance.

Personally I dont think it will happen in my lifetime. People in power tend to cling onto that power through whatever means they deem necessary, think Assad, Castro, Mugabe, Kim Jong Un, and even Putin.

Remember Tiananmen Square?

I was there during Tiananmen.  Got out just 2 days before "tank boy" made news around the world, and then they completely shut down the media, foreign and domestic.  I had work friends that had kids in the square.  We had somber reunions-of-sorts when I got back in country a few months later.  Parents of students in the square told me they just wished the youngsters would take it easier and more slowly, and then SNAP(!) there were tanks blocking all the side roads along the route to the airport and few days later those same tanks literally drove over people by the 100's if not 1,000's all around Beijing.  Similar actions were carried out by the CCP at a number of cities throughout China.

Warning to all casual observers:  Do not underestimate the CCP.  They can shut the place down, in all respects.  I still wonder if it will ever come to that and they go back to being a closed country.

I have serious doubts the citizenry can do any real damage to the CCP.

Many good comments have been made on here that Westerners want good things for the Chinese people; not for the CCP.  I would strongly agree with those statements.  However, by the same token one must understand that virtually no one understands to what lengths the CCP will go to squash any "movement".  I don't care how many years you or someone you know has lived/worked in China or how many Chinese "people" you or they know; you still don't know what lengths the CCP will go to with repression.

Rant over.