So the west is winning, is it? Only if you’re a delusional Trump toady, Mr Pompeo, by Simon Tisdall

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

3 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

I didn't lie, I quoted something on a monument.

I live in Canada with lots of space and fewer people.  I will be long dead by the time Canada's population density gets anywhere close to the US let alone elsewhere.

High population density cities are popular (New York).

Lets get this straight: Because your country has no one in it you therefore think other countries should take tons of economic migrants...... 🤣😆🤣😆

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 minute ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Lets get this straight: Because your country has no one in it you therefore think other countries should take tons of economic migrants...... 🤣😆🤣😆

No; I say I enjoy living in a low population density area but also immigration isn't bad.

At the very least it drives up the demand for real estate... a topic on my mind as I am moving in with my girlfriend.

Anyone in Edmonton want to rent an executive condo?

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

49 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

If you fear Huwaei over privacy and security concerns you are naive.  Apple, Google, IBM, ISPs etc. and all governments are already watching you and could disable your phone/PC at will.  

The reason the states hates Huwaei so much is because they are winning the technology war and have the best 5G stuff.  Only way to make US based 5G at all successful is to bully other nations not to use Huwaei.

 

I call BS. 

The actual driver is physical control of the 5G architecture by China through hidden back doors. Practically all data processing and communications chips and equipment in China have "mystery" components and functions that the buyer can't control, nor isolate without disabling its functionality. They would not have been so panicked as to remove tens of billions of dollars worth of US made data and coms equipment if they didn't know that it might be used for spying and remote control just as they were doing it to, everyone else. 

The whole world, including the US would love to have cheap Chinese 5G backbones. But not when they remain in direct control of the CCP through surreptitious circuitry and machine programming. And not when those cheap prices are because of stolen technology and trade secrets, and subsidies. Then it is a lose lose proposition.

Boris Johnson fell into the same thought trap that EU leaders are in, that the US interests don't matter because the US needs the alliance and will accept short term cheap skate betrayals in order to keep it running. 

Wrong. The US no longer needs the alliance for itself. Each alliance member has its own mercantile value. Nobody has geopolitical value for the US at all, except Israel which can strike the Middle Eastern rogues if necessary.

European leadership is thinking that they can make of China and Russia the sort of geopolitical bargaining chips with the US that the Soviets were so they can obtain mercantile advantages like asymmetrical tariff arrangements, quotas subsidies and non tariff restrictions to protect deeply uncompetitive local industries and agriculture. 

That is not the case. The US is demonstrating its intentions by not retaliating against direct attacks of the Iranians on Saudi oil. The US does not care if a war between Saudi and Iran erupts. The US will act as a mercantile beneficiary out of the war, renting its military support in equipment and perhaps in assets and minor direct action, not a participant. Which puts the onus of keeping it from happening on Europe and China. Meaning that they themselves have to pressure Iran directly and sanction it themselves. The US did its bit and would benefit along with Russia if it all goes up in flames. 

The next demonstration will be the US not doing a thing when state sponsored pirates from any of a myriad of African or other desperate coastal states hijack oil or other cargoes and hold them for ransom. 

Next up will be China literally taking over explicit control of one of its belt and road port or road countries and excluding EU and other trade with it to provide exclusive supplies of key minerals to China. The US will do nothing and let Europe scramble to figure out how to run supply chains that MUST go through China and the US will not respond to it if it has its own sources. If Europe does not join the US alliance on US favored mercantile terms offered including a selective embargo of China technology and finance, then the US will stand aside and let the world trade system crumble. 

The Chinese reaction to the coronavirus epidemic has raised business interruption insurance into the stratosphere relative to prevailing rates at rounding error level. There is now a permanent financial cost to sourcing from China.  

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

you will love your new master Bernie.

Nope, not a chance in hell.

 

 

 

 

[Marcin2 + 725]

39 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

@Marcin2 makes a correct argument from a European political elite point of view. They have been subsidized by US protection of trade for the better part of a century and have flourished by spending nearly nothing on the effort that makes Europe viable along with its trade with China, or anyone else other than Russia. They were "bribed" with mercantile favors for 70 years while the US fought the cold war while being undermined at every turn by the NATO "allies", and then when a foreign oil dependent US actively put forces on the ground to assure both the world and itself an oil supply.

The European thinking is that if there is a cold war or containment of China, then they want to be on the same terms as they had with the cold war with Soviet Russia. Where they cut deals with the "cold war enemy" and trade freely with them while the US pays for the defense and for their constantly flailing allegiance with mercantile benefits. 

This is where the new US transition away from the postwar order that started well before Trump is finding friction. Trump is saying that the US has no existential interest in the global order. If it were to remain committed, it must flip the mercantile balance of benefits to its own industries. The US, having no real interest in China's attempted hegemony and Europe's lame lip service in its resistance to China will not accept terms that allow Europe to continue with its integration with China while the US provides the safety of the sea lanes. The US, newly oil independent -  at least nominally, and flush with NG, can restrict its protection uniquely to US trade and a small selection of favored trading partners, while letting the various "pirate states" attack oil tankers and cargoes headed to or from other countries.

As Peter Zeihan likes to point out, world trade never looked like the freewheeling business of today, with fragile complex supply chains flowing through the entire planet with cargoes safely going where they will without worry of attack and no nation needing to worry about access to raw materials or markets, and insurance costs being puny rounding errors. The "natural state" of trade was that of mercantile empires protecting their individual trade partnerships for supplies and end markets against other empires and militarily throwing their enemies/competitors out as necessary through conquest.  Vertically integrated empires were the rule. A few small free port nations and banking centers and pirate havens were "in between". Spain was the first large empire and it was in constant war with Britain and occasionally France and then the US as it attempted to maintain control of, and trade with, its colonies in the face of state sponsored pirates and direct navy attacks on its shipping.  Remember "Sir" Francis Drake and his deliveries of pirate loot to Queen Elisabeth? The infamously murderous East India companies of England and the Dutch? The equally malevolent Belgian empire in Africa, the cruel heavy hand of the French in the Americas, Middle East Indochina and Africa? 

The European idea that they can benefit with the same kind of free protection by the US without providing the US with substantive military support, nor mercantile advantages is a cognitive disease where momentum of the past clouds their judgement of the shape of the future given the hard choices at hand. The US is too small relative to the global trade world to be able to foot the bill on its own without a tangible benefit to its industries. Nor is it capable of absorbing the financial strain of carrying the burden of reserve currency, where Triffin's dilemma (the inevitable hollowing out of industry of the issuer of the reserve currency) far overwhelms any other benefit (Jacques Rueff's "exorbitant privilege") to "free external financing" of government deficits.  It is indeed that idiotic economically inverted point of view that the system should provide benefits to governments rather than individuals and their businesses, that puts Europe on the wrong side of reading the situation, just as it undermines their economies and financial system, which, BTW, remains 2/3 dollarized. 

The current choice the US offers is between a select few partners in a US centered and US protected free trade system with the tables decidedly sloped to the US' mercantile benefit, and real carrying of their part of  the military burden, which does not include a Chinese empire, Or the alternative to be left out and have a target on your shipping without the US participating in retaliation if it is attacked. So let us see whether China goes to war against state sponsored pirates from Somalia stealing their cargoes. Let us see if insurance costs remain a rounding error under these conditions, for all but US protected shipping with its selected trade partners.. 

Europe is trying to play soviet era cards and considering partnering with a China that only intends to make them into true obedient vassal states, rather than provide the rather narrow mercantile costs that the US is demanding in order to continue the current arrangement. Which include cutting off China from the future until the CCP vanishes. 

Cont...

.  

I would like to refer to US protection of sea lanes MYTH. You are too clever @0R0 to write such things.

Unless US will sponsor "pirates" with US modern maritime warfare or US will become submarine pirates themselves (this again means WW3) China has more than enough navy strength to protect the global sea lanes.

Actually China already has more than US relatively small major surface combatants (corvettes and frigates) suitable for fight with "pirates" and protect sea lanes.

If needed China would just build another 10 or 30 or 50 corvettes or another 10 or 30 frigates to patrol global sea lanes.

[0R0 + 6,251]

55 minutes ago, Wombat said:

What kind of foggy thinking or wilful blindness allows a senior politician to indulge such complacency when, as he speaks, not so far away, hundreds of thousands of refugees are being mercilessly bombed on Idlib’s freezing hillsides?

 

Almost 10 years ago, Syrians rose up in search of the freedom and democracy Pompeo lauds. But they got precious little help from the west. The story of the war, in part, is the story of how the west lost Syria, lost other Arab spring countries – and lost credibility everywhere. (...)

 

That is exactly my point.

The US is no longer interested in fighting an outright war with the Syrians and their Russian and Iranian supporters over humanitarian issues like democratic rights. If Europe wants to do something to stem the proxy wars in Syria and Iraq by Iran Russia and Saudi, then they are welcome to join in with US forces and take the lead with their own people on the ground and air forces. The US will not carry the burden on its own.

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

6 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

I call BS. 

The actual driver is physical control of the 5G architecture by China through hidden back doors. Practically all data processing and communications chips and equipment in China have "mystery" components and functions that the buyer can't control, nor isolate without disabling its functionality. They would not have been so panicked as to remove tens of billions of dollars worth of US made data and coms equipment if they didn't know that it might be used for spying and remote control just as they were doing it to, everyone else. 

The whole world, including the US would love to have cheap Chinese 5G backbones. But not when they remain in direct control of the CCP through surreptitious circuitry and machine programming. And not when those cheap prices are because of stolen technology and trade secrets, and subsidies. Then it is a lose lose proposition.

Boris Johnson fell into the same thought trap that EU leaders are in, that the US interests don't matter because the US needs the alliance and will accept short term cheap skate betrayals in order to keep it running. 

Wrong. The US no longer needs the alliance for itself. Each alliance member has its own mercantile value. Nobody has geopolitical value for the US at all, except Israel which can strike the Middle Eastern rogues if necessary.

European leadership is thinking that they can make of China and Russia the sort of geopolitical bargaining chips with the US that the Soviets were so they can obtain mercantile advantages like asymmetrical tariff arrangements, quotas subsidies and non tariff restrictions to protect deeply uncompetitive local industries and agriculture. 

That is not the case. The US is demonstrating its intentions by not retaliating against direct attacks of the Iranians on Saudi oil. The US does not care if a war between Saudi and Iran erupts. The US will act as a mercantile beneficiary out of the war, renting its military support in equipment and perhaps in assets and minor direct action, not a participant. Which puts the onus of keeping it from happening on Europe and China. Meaning that they themselves have to pressure Iran directly and sanction it themselves. The US did its bit and would benefit along with Russia if it all goes up in flames. 

The next demonstration will be the US not doing a thing when state sponsored pirates from any of a myriad of African or other desperate coastal states hijack oil or other cargoes and hold them for ransom. 

Next up will be China literally taking over explicit control of one of its belt and road port or road countries and excluding EU and other trade with it to provide exclusive supplies of key minerals to China. The US will do nothing and let Europe scramble to figure out how to run supply chains that MUST go through China and the US will not respond to it if it has its own sources. If Europe does not join the US alliance on US favored mercantile terms offered including a selective embargo of China technology and finance, then the US will stand aside and let the world trade system crumble. 

The Chinese reaction to the coronavirus epidemic has raised business interruption insurance into the stratosphere relative to prevailing rates at rounding error level. There is now a permanent financial cost to sourcing from China.  

You make some valid points but you also seem to think that the US won't be putting "back doors" in their own products.  Wars of the future are online and the US knows that 5G networks -plus a few satellites- makes their current internet monitoring and control obsolete.

US is in a big push to install their own products but is running late... so bully with fear.   Fear as a tool???? HaHA

 

[Marcin2 + 725]

10 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

I call BS. 

The actual driver is physical control of the 5G architecture by China through hidden back doors. Practically all data processing and communications chips and equipment in China have "mystery" components and functions that the buyer can't control, nor isolate without disabling its functionality. They would not have been so panicked as to remove tens of billions of dollars worth of US made data and coms equipment if they didn't know that it might be used for spying and remote control just as they were doing it to, everyone else. 

The whole world, including the US would love to have cheap Chinese 5G backbones. But not when they remain in direct control of the CCP through surreptitious circuitry and machine programming. And not when those cheap prices are because of stolen technology and trade secrets, and subsidies. Then it is a lose lose proposition.

Boris Johnson fell into the same thought trap that EU leaders are in, that the US interests don't matter because the US needs the alliance and will accept short term cheap skate betrayals in order to keep it running. 

Wrong. The US no longer needs the alliance for itself. Each alliance member has its own mercantile value. Nobody has geopolitical value for the US at all, except Israel which can strike the Middle Eastern rogues if necessary.

European leadership is thinking that they can make of China and Russia the sort of geopolitical bargaining chips with the US that the Soviets were so they can obtain mercantile advantages like asymmetrical tariff arrangements, quotas subsidies and non tariff restrictions to protect deeply uncompetitive local industries and agriculture. 

That is not the case. The US is demonstrating its intentions by not retaliating against direct attacks of the Iranians on Saudi oil. The US does not care if a war between Saudi and Iran erupts. The US will act as a mercantile beneficiary out of the war, renting its military support in equipment and perhaps in assets and minor direct action, not a participant. Which puts the onus of keeping it from happening on Europe and China. Meaning that they themselves have to pressure Iran directly and sanction it themselves. The US did its bit and would benefit along with Russia if it all goes up in flames. 

The next demonstration will be the US not doing a thing when state sponsored pirates from any of a myriad of African or other desperate coastal states hijack oil or other cargoes and hold them for ransom. 

Next up will be China literally taking over explicit control of one of its belt and road port or road countries and excluding EU and other trade with it to provide exclusive supplies of key minerals to China. The US will do nothing and let Europe scramble to figure out how to run supply chains that MUST go through China and the US will not respond to it if it has its own sources. If Europe does not join the US alliance on US favored mercantile terms offered including a selective embargo of China technology and finance, then the US will stand aside and let the world trade system crumble. 

The Chinese reaction to the coronavirus epidemic has raised business interruption insurance into the stratosphere relative to prevailing rates at rounding error level. There is now a permanent financial cost to sourcing from China.  

@0R0 please show us 1 proof of Huawei backdoors. It is sth like HOLY GRAAL, US is talking about malicious Huawei behaviour ONLY cannot show ANY PROOF. Germans and British are STILL WAITING for this PROOF.

So now it is just down to Trump and Pompeo being UNABLE to continue EAVESDROPPING on ALLIES or "ALLIES".

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 minute ago, Marcin2 said:

I would like to refer to US protection of sea lanes MYTH. You are too clever @0R0 to write such things.

Unless US will sponsor "pirates" with US modern maritime warfare or US will become submarine pirates themselves (this again means WW3) China has more than enough navy strength to protect the global sea lanes.

Actually China already has more than US relatively small major surface combatants (corvettes and frigates) suitable for fight with "pirates" and protect sea lanes.

If needed China would just build another 10 or 30 or 50 corvettes or another 10 or 30 frigates to patrol global sea lanes.

Perhaps you don't understand the issue. 

Piracy is "piracy". It is an imperial act carried out by proxy. China does indeed have a Navy that can tackle minor piracy, as it had in suppressing Somali pirates. 

The Europeans are still enjoying the freedom from having to exercise imperial naval actions. If they don't join the US on US terms, they will be left alone to do what they will with China's very costly help. 

The only person in Europe to actually want to take direct action is Macron, but he wants Europe to field the army and Navy, not freeload on France. Which is not going to happen. Nobody in Europe want to be an alsoran of the French military, and nobody there wants a heavily militarized Germany to do the job.

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

17 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Nope, not a chance in hell.

 

Democracy sucks for about 50% of the US.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

@0R0 please show us 1 proof of Huawei backdoors. It is sth like HOLY GRAAL, US is talking about malicious Huawei behaviour ONLY cannot show ANY PROOF. Germans and British are STILL WAITING for this PROOF.

 

Ars Technica:

US says it can prove Huawei has backdoor access to mobile-phone networks

US hasn't made evidence public but reportedly shared it with UK and Germany.

[Marcin2 + 725]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

That is exactly my point.

The US is no longer interested in fighting an outright war with the Syrians and their Russian and Iranian supporters over humanitarian issues like democratic rights. If Europe wants to do something to stem the proxy wars in Syria and Iraq by Iran Russia and Saudi, then they are welcome to join in with US forces and take the lead with their own people on the ground and air forces. The US will not carry the burden on its own.

 

So stop lawless invasion and occupation of Syrian and Iraqi territory, could you ?

US behaviour is LAWLESS in the face of international law, in the face of

the RULES BASED ORDER, the slogan

US like to mention only when it suits its interests.

The realpolitik is no good guys or bad guys (actually US are now bad guys in this system) game, it is about interests, here hydrocarbons interests. @0R0

Edited February 24, 2020 by Marcin2
Deleted unnecessary insult

[Marcin2 + 725]

7 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Perhaps you don't understand the issue. 

Piracy is "piracy". It is an imperial act carried out by proxy. China does indeed have a Navy that can tackle minor piracy, as it had in suppressing Somali pirates. 

The Europeans are still enjoying the freedom from having to exercise imperial naval actions. If they don't join the US on US terms, they will be left alone to do what they will with China's very costly help. 

The only person in Europe to actually want to take direct action is Macron, but he wants Europe to field the army and Navy, not freeload on France. Which is not going to happen. Nobody in Europe want to be an alsoran of the French military, and nobody there wants a heavily militarized Germany to do the job.

 

You are right, China cannot protect itself from US IMPERIAL PIRACY, ONLY this piracy.

So if US will engage in high seas "piracy" as you suggest, we would have problem, and again are back to WW3 conundrum.

What other imperial piracy (apart from US piracy) could be costly in prevention ? Please be specific, as the structure of the major combatants of major navies, I just happen to remember very well, is not going to be a threat even for weak European navies. South Korean Navy will sabotage EU shipping, German Navy will sabotage Japan shipping ? It is absurd.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Marcin2
typos

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

5 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Democracy sucks for about 50% of the US.

The U.S. is a Republic not a Democracy.

Here's just one of many articles on rhe topic, I just picked the first one from a search for the sentence above.

The United States is not a democracy — and it wasn't meant to be one

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

1 minute ago, Marcin2 said:

You are right, China cannot protect itself from US IMPERIAL PIRACY, ONLY.

So if US will engage in high seas "piracy" as you suggest, we would have problem, and again are back to WW3 conundrum.

Ah, you finally admit you are Chinese.  Now you can drop the, "I am Polish" BS. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

5 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

@0R0 please show us 1 proof of Huawei backdoors. It is sth like HOLY GRAAL, US is talking about malicious Huawei behaviour ONLY cannot show ANY PROOF. Germans and British are STILL WAITING for this PROOF.

So now it is just down to Trump and Pompeo being UNABLE to continue EAVESDROPPING on ALLIES or "ALLIES".

I will demand of you that you offer proof that the Pentagon and CIA reports explicitly stating that are wrong. To provide the kind of direct "proof" you are asking for, they have to break open and reverse engineer the functions of "mystery circuits" and encrypted code on chips. Each of which is a major engineering effort. Costly and having no benefit.

Yes, the US has been spying on its Allies. They are spying on the US. It is a reciprocal part of international security arrangements and varies by degree between complete 5 eyes operations and less complete cross spying between EU and the US, with the US doing more of it, remember that the remaining telecom backbone operators are European Nokia and Ericsson. The US ha no more control of them than do EU members. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

19 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

You make some valid points but you also seem to think that the US won't be putting "back doors" in their own products.  Wars of the future are online and the US knows that 5G networks -plus a few satellites- makes their current internet monitoring and control obsolete.

US is in a big push to install their own products but is running late... so bully with fear.   Fear as a tool???? HaHA

 

You are posing the question of whether EU should sign up to one sided spying and control of their individual's telecoms and "self driving" payments accounts, and electric switching by China, putting them at the mercy of its prickly Propaganda machine and mercenary interests. Or stick to waiting for their own companies and the US to provide the same "service" with a degree of reciprocity at a higher cost. I think the answer is easy. 

Call it Eurosclerosis, but the administrative class of the EC that took over control of the individual EU state governments, can not make political decisions, and the politicians are incapable of making decisions any longer without directives from their EC centric bureaucrats. It is not strategic reasoning or geopolitical considerations. It is a cheap trading issue where European governments are willing to trade control of technology that runs the future to China's CCP for the benefit of cheap components, financing, and quick buildout. I would say they are selling their future to China really cheaply.

 

[Marcin2 + 725]

40 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

You make some valid points but you also seem to think that the US won't be putting "back doors" in their own products.  Wars of the future are online and the US knows that 5G networks -plus a few satellites- makes their current internet monitoring and control obsolete.

US is in a big push to install their own products but is running late... so bully with fear.   Fear as a tool???? HaHA

 

Exactly. But China has no motivation to start any war, it will be just an economic hegemon, will dominate, mercilessly dominate the world in economic and technological terms. These will not be easy times for non-Chinese.

US GDP is 21 trillion USD nominal, 65,000 USD / per capita.

China GDP is 14 trillion USD nominal, 10,000 USD / per capita.

Prices in China are 2 or 3 times lower than in US.

China was always trying to hide the real GDP in PPP terms. They have not managed during the last 2012 IMF review.

So Chinese GDP is already 20,000-25,000 USD/per capita in PPP terms.

China has motivation to keep RMB devalued, it needs to increase productivity first, and it does this consequently.

While China will be developing,the level of domestic Chinese prices will slowly reach US/developed world level.

At 30,000-40,000 USD / per capita GDP China will dwarf US economy around 2035-2040.

[0R0 + 6,251]

18 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

You are right, China cannot protect itself from US IMPERIAL PIRACY, ONLY.

So if US will engage in high seas "piracy" as you suggest, we would have problem, and again are back to WW3 conundrum.

No.

You are emotionally reacting instead of thinking. The US is selling a deal which only works if the US is NOT a pirate. 

The Europeans Indians and Japanese will do the state sponsored piracy. The US will just stand aside and let it happen. China and Europe have the competitive needs to lock horns in imperial wars. The US doesn't. It is China that is >38% of GDP in  imports + exports

As I said, the Europeans have yet to take up the challenge to make a choice between the realistic offers on the table.

1. Sign up to a US led system slanted for US mercantile benefit rather than their own.

2. Sign up to a system led by China that China can't actually provide without even worse mercantile and political costs to Europe. 

3. Rebuild Imperial Europe as a united organization or as individual imperial alliances. Namely France+Benelux and S. Europe and perhaps the new Eastern European members. Germany has already instinctively signed up for a possible Ribbentrop Molotov redivision of Eastern Europe with Russia. Which is why the US is sitting with live forces in Poland and Romania. Germany did absolutely nothing to keep Russia out of Crimea. Merkel obviously has no problem with sharing Russian control over its sovereignty.  

[Marcin2 + 725]

25 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Ah, you finally admit you are Chinese.  Now you can drop the, "I am Polish" BS. 

25 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

You are right, China cannot protect itself from US IMPERIAL PIRACY, ONLY.

So if US will engage in high seas "piracy" as you suggest, we would have problem, and again are back to WW3 conundrum.

 

Chinese are very clever and ambitious people.

 I do not want to sound racist, but you can call me Chinese or Jewish or American

anytime you want, (or need it for your binary world view), I would take it as an compliment, I admire each of these nations.

I think WW3 would be a MAJOR problem for all of us, US citizens included.

(I would not call you Chinese if you would admit the above). Poland is a really sh*tty place to be in case of WW3. First salvo with depressed trajectory ICBM from Russia could be devastating for the place I live in, Warsaw.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

20 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

But China has no motivation to start any war, it will be just an economic hegemon, will dominate, mercilessly dominate the world in economic and technological terms. These will not be easy times for non-Chinese.

Coronavirus is easily disproving your assertions.  CCP's incompetence in this is glaring. 

One Bridge One Road is likely going to be on life support soon.  The cost of doing business with China has taken on much higher cost and risk.

China Faces Financial Armageddon With 85% Of Businesses Set To Run Out Of Cash In 3 Months

 

[BLA + 1,666]

3 hours ago, Wombat said:

Wrong! Huawei do not have the best 5G, just the CHEAPEST!

 

It's the cheapest (20% less) because the CCP subsidized it .  

Yes, big tech and our governments does use some surviellence and this needs to be addressed but could you imagine if China had 5G access .  

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

5 minutes ago, BLA said:

It's the cheapest (20% less) because the CCP subsidized it .  

Yes, big tech and our governments does use some surviellence and this needs to be addressed but could you imagine if China had 5G access .  

They will regardless, may as well save 20%

[BLA + 1,666]

2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

You make some valid points but you also seem to think that the US won't be putting "back doors" in their own products.  Wars of the future are online and the US knows that 5G networks -plus a few satellites- makes their current internet monitoring and control obsolete.

US is in a big push to install their own products but is running late... so bully with fear.   Fear as a tool???? HaHA

 

The U.S. has been caught putting backdoors in equipment sold to China.  In the early days when China first started buying laptop computers mfg in U.S. the intelligence community worked with operating system software companies and embedded a type of spyware in the firmware kernal of the laptop computer.  Even if suspected it could not be cleared out.  China couldn't do anything about it. 

The Huawei threat is very real. 

Britain gave the excuse that it would only allow Huawei equipment on the edge of the network.  The 5G has a whole new architecture , their claim made no sense.

Edited February 24, 2020 by BLA

[BLA + 1,666]

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Democracy sucks for about 50% of the US.

Nope.  Poll last week said 90% of U.S. happy with their life

Whether you like him or hate him it makes it tough to beat Trump.