"Criticism of migration will become a criminal offense. And media outlets that give room to criticism of migration, can be shut down." - EU Official to the Media.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Illegal immigration is ILLEGAL.  The EU really is turning into the Borg collective.

Happy I'm back in the U.S. where it is slightly less Borgy.

See 90 second video in this tweet:

https://twitter.com/OrtaineDevian/status/1231426342933000192

Quote from EU official to media:

"Criticism of migration will become a criminal offense.  And media outlets - that also concerns you - that give room to criticism of migration, can be shut down."

 

 

Hey EU ministers, illegal immigration is ILLEGAL.  Illegal immigration sucks, and the EU should feel bad that criticism of it is going to be illegal.

Apparently EU ministers are unable to handle legitimate criticism.

 

Will this forum be shut down in the EU because this forum (so far) allows me to criticize illegal immigration?

 

 

 

P.S.   all the EUphiles here - please feel free to criticize me.  I can take it. 

Illegal immigration is destroying the EU. 

Illegal immigration is destroying the U.S.  

Don't like what I said?

Let's debate it civilly, instead of making it illegal in the EU to say what I just said.

 

[GunnysGhost + 157]

If the arguments for illegal immigration could stand up on their own, they wouldnt have to ban criticism. 

Which pretty much ensures it's a terrible thing.  

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Europe's New Academic Fascism

... Defending the freedom to think and the possibility of an open conversation -- both currently mutilated in Europe -- is the foundation of Europe's civic life. Without free expression, there can be no circulation of ideas, no increase in knowledge, and therefore no progress. The basic principles of liberal society are undermined.  ...

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

The EU is disintegrating as we speak. I think other countries will be emboldened by the stance the UK took.

Couldn’t happen to a better group of unelected fruitbats...

[0R0 + 6,251]

Don't the EU governments understand that if you can't discuss it openly then it will be expressed physically? Expect bands of thugs chasing down immigrants, or anyone looking out of place. 

Civilized people do not restrict freedom of expression.. The moment you restrict speech on a topic you automatically lost the position. I would be surprised if any of these governments survive the next election. 

I said before that Europe has eliminated free speech well over a decade ago. They can't even conduct professional analysis. American geopolitical, financial and economic analysts and social scientists are routinely tapped by EU businesses because the locals can't say what they see nor what they think. Germany even makes quotes of fact "hate facts" as prosecutable "hate speech". Do they put their own statistical release staff in prison?

I am boycotting EU products till they restore free speech.

Europe is becoming a disaster.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

46 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Don't the EU governments understand that if you can't discuss it openly then it will be expressed physically? Expect bands of thugs chasing down immigrants, or anyone looking out of place. 

Civilized people do not restrict freedom of expression.. The moment you restrict speech on a topic you automatically lost the position. I would be surprised if any of these governments survive the next election. 

I said before that Europe has eliminated free speech well over a decade ago. They can't even conduct professional analysis. American geopolitical, financial and economic analysts and social scientists are routinely tapped by EU businesses because the locals can't say what they see nor what they think. Germany even makes quotes of fact "hate facts" as prosecutable "hate speech". Do they put their own statistical release staff in prison?

I am boycotting EU products till they restore free speech.

Europe is becoming a disaster.

Nope Europe is a fantastic mix of countries, peoples and cultures that have given civilisation more things than I care to list.

However the European Commission, the European Council and the European Parliament are attempting to destroy the very principles that made these great nations GREAT.

I'm very glad the UK is out of the farce that is the EU, hopefully when other countries see that we are fine without this bureaucratic nonsense the whole thing will collapse around the sycophants that run it.

[0R0 + 6,251]

13 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Nope Europe is a fantastic mix of countries, peoples and cultures that have given civilisation more things than I care to list.

However the European Commission, the European Council and the European Parliament are attempting to destroy the very principles that made these great nations GREAT.

I'm very glad the UK is out of the farce that is the EU, hopefully when other countries see that we are fine without this bureaucratic nonsense the whole thing will collapse around the sycophants that run it.

Absolutely agree.

However, there is no sign of any check on the thorough gutting of all principles of civilization and cultural identity by the EC and socialist academia. Merkel is explicitly "disappointed" with Germany's inability to become "multicultural". i.e. not German. I don't understand why the governments are still standing. The right wing may be repulsive and racist, but the mainstream has become so radicalized that it is threatening the existence of European civilization altogether. I am surprised that there isn't violence against the party leaderships.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

17 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Absolutely agree.

However, there is no sign of any check on the thorough gutting of all principles of civilization and cultural identity by the EC and socialist academia. Merkel is explicitly "disappointed" with Germany's inability to become "multicultural". i.e. not German. I don't understand why the governments are still standing. The right wing may be repulsive and racist, but the mainstream has become so radicalized that it is threatening the existence of European civilization altogether. I am surprised that there isn't violence against the party leaderships.

We are very much on the same page on this.

I hope it wont end up in bloodshed but I honestly cant see any other ending unless the EU breaks up following the UK's lead.

The collective sigh of relief that we have finally left is tangible.

Boris is a very flawed character, but then again so was Churchill and he did a bloody good job!

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

5 hours ago, 0R0 said:

I would be surprised if any of these governments survive the next election. 

The fundamental problem as I see it is that the EU clowns are not up for election. One of the Brexit arguments was that Britain didn't want to be ruled by unelected bunglecrats. OK, they might have used the term bureaucrats, but that looks obviously misspelled to my eyes. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Democracies survive because "the people" feel they have a voice. Take away that voice and you have a democracy in name only. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

44 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

The fundamental problem as I see it is that the EU clowns are not up for election. One of the Brexit arguments was that Britain didn't want to be ruled by unelected bunglecrats. OK, they might have used the term bureaucrats, but that looks obviously misspelled to my eyes. 

The EC is ruled by the councils. It can be defunded and die with one major country vetoing budget growth. As it stands, I would expect a group of net contributor countries (Benelux and Denmark) to cut off budgets, not only will they not support an increase in contributions to substitute for the UK portion of the budget, but will push to reduce their portions as well. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

23 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

"Criticism of migration will become a criminal offence.  And media outlets - that also concerns you - that give room to criticism of migration, can be shut down."

 

If they are using hate speech against a race or religion it is already illegal.

Most other complaints relate to political views which should not be grounds for in-admission.

So what is your complaint? They are uneducated or broke? That fine legally but also also lacks compassion.

Edited February 26, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Guillaume Albasini + 851]

This thread is a good example of how the fake news factory is working.

The title is :

"Criticism of migration will become a criminal offense.  And media outlets that give room to criticism of migration, can be shut down." - EU Official to the Media

Then Tom posts a twitter video showing a guy in a press conference talking about the global compact and saying this sentence. Behind the guy we can see a european flag and the logo of the EU parliament.

 

Tom want you to believe that this guy is a EU official stating that all criticism of migration will become a criminal offense in the EU.  And everyone seems to jump to the conclusion that the EU is banning free speech. 0R0 is even stating the he is boycotting EU product until free speech is restored.

 

But this is just a fake news.

 

The guy speaking in the twitter video is Marcel de Graff. He is not a EU officer but only a member of the EU parliament representing a dutch far-right party. Ant he is not talking about the EU legislation. He is talking about the Global compact a UN  pact not only not binding legally, is also drafted to be loose and facultative.

And what he says about the Global compact is not true. This UN document is not criminalizing criticism of migrations. It's a non-legally binding commitment to eliminate all forms of discrimination, condemn and counter expressions, acts and manifestations of racism, racial discrimination, violence, xenophobia and related intolerance against all migrants in conformity with international human rights law.
 

Quote

Objective 17:Eliminate all forms of discrimination and promote evidence-based public discourse to shape perceptions of migration

We commit to eliminate all forms of discrimination, condemn and counter expressions, acts and manifestations of racism, racial discrimination, violence, xenophobia and related intolerance against all migrants in conformity with international human rights law. We further commit to promote an open and evidence-based public discourse on migration and migrants in partnership with all parts of society, that generates a more realistic, humane and constructive perception in this regard. We also commit to protect freedom of expression in accordance with 

 

 

 

De Graff is member of a dutch xenophobic political party calling for the administrative detention of the migrants, banning the Curan and shutting down all mosques in the Netherlands. So it's not really surprising to see him opposing a text fighting racism and xenophobia.

 

But please stop believing  this guy is expressing the EU official policy.

 

For a more detailed fact checking about this :

https://fullfact.org/immigration/inaccuracies-spreading-about-un-migration-pact/

 

Text of the UN Global Compact for Safe Orderly and regular Migration :

https://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/73/195

 

The Global Compact on the IOM website :

https://www.iom.int/global-compact-migration

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RichieRich216 + 454]

Sucks to be in the EU, Love our rights here in the United States...

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

5 hours ago, 0R0 said:

The EC is ruled by the councils. It can be defunded and die with one major country vetoing budget growth. As it stands, I would expect a group of net contributor countries (Benelux and Denmark) to cut off budgets, not only will they not support an increase in contributions to substitute for the UK portion of the budget, but will push to reduce their portions as well. 

One can only hope...

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

12 hours ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

This thread is a good example of how the fake news factory is working.

The title is :

"Criticism of migration will become a criminal offense.  And media outlets that give room to criticism of migration, can be shut down." - EU Official to the Media

Then Tom posts a twitter video showing a guy in a press conference talking about the global compact and saying this sentence. Behind the guy we can see a european flag and the logo of the EU parliament.

 

Tom want you to believe that this guy is a EU official stating that all criticism of migration will become a criminal offense in the EU.  And everyone seems to jump to the conclusion that the EU is banning free speech. 0R0 is even stating the he is boycotting EU product until free speech is restored.

 

But this is just a fake news.

 

The guy speaking in the twitter video is Marcel de Graff. He is not a EU officer but only a member of the EU parliament representing a dutch far-right party. Ant he is not talking about the EU legislation. He is talking about the Global compact a UN  pact not only not binding legally, is also drafted to be loose and facultative.

And what he says about the Global compact is not true. This UN document is not criminalizing criticism of migrations. It's a non-legally binding commitment to eliminate all forms of discrimination, condemn and counter expressions, acts and manifestations of racism, racial discrimination, violence, xenophobia and related intolerance against all migrants in conformity with international human rights law.
 

 

De Graff is member of a dutch xenophobic political party calling for the administrative detention of the migrants, banning the Curan and shutting down all mosques in the Netherlands. So it's not really surprising to see him opposing a text fighting racism and xenophobia.

 

But please stop believing  this guy is expressing the EU official policy.

 

For a more detailed fact checking about this :

https://fullfact.org/immigration/inaccuracies-spreading-about-un-migration-pact/

 

Text of the UN Global Compact for Safe Orderly and regular Migration :

https://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/73/195

 

The Global Compact on the IOM website :

https://www.iom.int/global-compact-migration

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And this is reason I am retreating more and more from this forum. 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

A common misconception regarding the EU from countries outside the EU is that they believe the representatives in the European parliament are "UNELECTED", this is NOT true. There are frequent European parliament elections where the people are invited to vote for their candidate just as in a general election.

The problem in the UK was that nobody, and I mean nobody, had ever heard of the candidates who stood for election let alone what their policies stood for. Therefore mostly people didn't even bother voting or just picked any candidate. This was the apathy in the UK towards the European parliament and I believe what led to the referendum result.

I would be interested to hear from other Europeans as to how interested their respective peoples are when it comes to voting for their EU representative and if they feel its worthwhile voting at all.

[Marcin2 + 726]

2 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

And this is reason I am retreating more and more from this forum. 

I agree, often waste of time, but I found my personal way to enjoy this forum.

After scanning it last Saturday, and not finding anything interesting to discuss (oil cuts, corona virus and Democratic primaries, only topics last weeks) , I created a thread. A good deal of thought provoking comments occurred before it has gotten into the usual off topic about Chinese agents, recent Trump love afrair with Modi or why Guardian is a rag.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Marcin2 said:

Guardian is a rag

Rag is a colloquial expression for newspaper. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

16 hours ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

This thread is a good example of how the fake news factory is working.

The title is :

"Criticism of migration will become a criminal offense.  And media outlets that give room to criticism of migration, can be shut down." - EU Official to the Media

Then Tom posts a twitter video showing a guy in a press conference talking about the global compact and saying this sentence. Behind the guy we can see a european flag and the logo of the EU parliament.

 

Tom want you to believe that this guy is a EU official stating that all criticism of migration will become a criminal offense in the EU.  And everyone seems to jump to the conclusion that the EU is banning free speech. 0R0 is even stating the he is boycotting EU product until free speech is restored.

 

But this is just a fake news.

 

The guy speaking in the twitter video is Marcel de Graff. He is not a EU officer but only a member of the EU parliament representing a dutch far-right party. Ant he is not talking about the EU legislation. He is talking about the Global compact a UN  pact not only not binding legally, is also drafted to be loose and facultative.

And what he says about the Global compact is not true. This UN document is not criminalizing criticism of migrations. It's a non-legally binding commitment to eliminate all forms of discrimination, condemn and counter expressions, acts and manifestations of racism, racial discrimination, violence, xenophobia and related intolerance against all migrants in conformity with international human rights law.
 

 

De Graff is member of a dutch xenophobic political party calling for the administrative detention of the migrants, banning the Curan and shutting down all mosques in the Netherlands. So it's not really surprising to see him opposing a text fighting racism and xenophobia.

 

But please stop believing  this guy is expressing the EU official policy.

 

For a more detailed fact checking about this :

https://fullfact.org/immigration/inaccuracies-spreading-about-un-migration-pact/

 

Text of the UN Global Compact for Safe Orderly and regular Migration :

https://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/73/195

 

The Global Compact on the IOM website :

https://www.iom.int/global-compact-migration

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the information.

I did jump to conclusions without getting the details. Not to say that the general issue of restriction of free speech in Europe isn't real and serious. 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

6 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I would be interested to hear from other Europeans as to how interested their respective peoples are when it comes to voting for their EU representative and if they feel its worthwhile voting at all.

62 % voting participation in Denmark in this past EP election.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

3 hours ago, 0R0 said:

I did jump to conclusions without getting the details. Not to say that the general issue of restriction of free speech in Europe isn't real and serious. 

I am Danish. I have lived and travel to many different European countries. I know many Americans. And have lived different places in the US. 

Could you elaborate a little on your above statement ? 

[Marcin2 + 726]

Europeans are way less racist than Americans.

If you are American please watch French movie: Serial ( bad) weddings.

For me it was just a good comedy, how diverse we are but at the end can get along together.

Share your thoughts, be honest.

[0R0 + 6,251]

3 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I am Danish. I have lived and travel to many different European countries. I know many Americans. And have lived different places in the US. 

Could you elaborate a little on your above statement ? 

The general situation is that there is a guiding consensus of the administrative class in Europe towards a politically unified multicultural Europe, rather than the fractious regionalized cultures with historic ties and differences uniting them and separating them from others..  Thus a right to self determination is viewed as anathema to the notion of a unified Europe. EC and member state bureaucrats have for 30 years been reaching into the press and financial analytical community as well as academia to threaten critics and get them fired under threats of arbitrary regulatory interventions.

The teeth for the legal restriction of free speech are in the European Court's upholding of a blasphemy case, which made it possible to prosecute critics of any religion and of the EC and the Union in general. Among the folks charged and a couple of cases that saw a court is an economist who got a jail sentence. That is also the legal for "hate speech" law outside Germany, which had such laws because of its Nazi and neo Nazi history. 

Being Danish, I am sure you are aware of generally unsuccessful integration of immigrants in Europe. Not because of an expression of racist hate, but because all European nationalities struggled hard to gain independence and retain it as well as to create a separate cultural identity and self-definition of the national group. The idea of multiculturalism is great where cultural cohesion is not really important, as happens in the US, where imposition of culture is not really possible throughout the country. The basic legal structures in Europe need to be reformed into common law and basic legal principles to allow multiculturalism to be broad. E.g. separation of church and state so that no religion has any support from any sector of the government.  

 

[Bob D + 562]

With Brexit as the template .. get ready for

Frexit

Gerexit

Italexit

Spexit

etc