Guillaume Albasini + 851 February 27, 2020 Interesting developments could happen soon in the EV battery industry. Tesla is in "advanced talks" with Chinese battery producer CATL and a new low cost cobalt-free battery is rumored to be in the pipeline. https://thedriven.io/2020/02/26/new-tesla-battery-a-combination-of-dry-cell-and-supercapacitor/ https://www.zigwheels.ph/car-news/tesla-model-3-to-go-cobalt-free-with-catl-batteries Pessimistic view : Tesla will use iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries to reduce the cost of their cars for the Chinese market at the expense of the range (energy density is lower in LFP than in NCM or NCA batteries). Nothing really new, most Chinese low-range EV's already use LFP batteries. Optimistic view : They will use a new breakthrough technology using a high performance and low cost cobalt-free new battery cobining dry-cell and supercapacitor. In this case it would be a bad news for Wall Street Tesla shorters and for congolese artisanal miners. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP February 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Guillaume Albasini said: Optimistic view : They will use a new breakthrough technology using a high performance and low cost cobalt-free new battery cobining dry-cell and supercapacitor. In this case it would be a bad news for Wall Street Tesla shorters and for congolese artisanal miners. I'm hoping its a graphene battery Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meredith Poor + 895 MP February 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Rob Plant said: I'm hoping its a graphene battery Graphene batteries (or at least the ones on the market now) still use lithium. They might also use cobalt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surrept33 + 609 st February 27, 2020 https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion Quote Li-phosphate is more tolerant to full charge conditions and is less stressed than other lithium-ion systems if kept at high voltage for a prolonged time. (See BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries). As a trade-off, its lower nominal voltage of 3.2V/cell reduces the specific energy below that of cobalt-blended lithium-ion. With most batteries, cold temperature reduces performance and elevated storage temperature shortens the service life, and Li-phosphate is no exception. Li-phosphate has a higher self-discharge than other Li-ion batteries, which can cause balancing issues with aging. This can be mitigated by buying high quality cells and/or using sophisticated control electronics, both of which increase the cost of the pack. Cleanliness in manufacturing is of importance for longevity. There is no tolerance for moisture, lest the battery will only deliver 50 cycles. It feels like the low specific energy would be a non-starter in North America because of range anxiety, at least with Tesla's current models (maybe if they made a marketed a low range "city car", but that doesn't seem very popular in North America right now due to the SUV explosion). I wonder if Tesla would ever consider Li-Phosphate in Europe? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 February 28, 2020 12 hours ago, surrept33 said: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion It feels like the low specific energy would be a non-starter in North America because of range anxiety, at least with Tesla's current models (maybe if they made a marketed a low range "city car", but that doesn't seem very popular in North America right now due to the SUV explosion). I wonder if Tesla would ever consider Li-Phosphate in Europe? You cannot charge LiFePo below freezing... so you better install a heater and insulate it. THe batteries could could Li-Mg, even worse than LiFePo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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