Zhong Lu

So. Who's for Universal Basic Income?

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1000 dollars for everyone per month!

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I think this is being put in place in Australia now.

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For those that need it, it will be used and spent rather than saved which means that it will be used to buy needed daily necessities which can help the economy.

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A universal basic income? I see a few problems here. Who determines the amount of the basic income? Who pays for it? Is some tribesman in Uganda guaranteed the same income as some student in Denmark?

If Country A is paying into the global fund which is contributing to the payment of someone in Country B, does Country A automatically have a say in the economics of Country B?

Do able bodied people, capable of working, but choose not to and who survive off of the dole or welfare systems in their respective countries qualify for this basic income?

I think this idea of a ‘basic income’ reeks of socialism. If you can work, then you work and live within your means. If for some realistic reason you can not work, then each country should have a ‘safety net’, funded by THEIR citizens.

The whole idea of a universal basic income is ludicrous and smells of unicorn farts.

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30 minutes ago, canadas canadas said:

For those that need it, it will be used and spent rather than saved which means that it will be used to buy needed daily necessities which can help the economy.

Or it will be utilized to buy drugs, booze and hookers. Although these purchases ‘help the economy’, I do not think this contributes to the social fabric.

How would you possibly guarantee this money would be spent on “necessities”?

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14 hours ago, Zhong Lu said:

1000 dollars for everyone per month!

You cheap bas***d! I was thinking 10 grand in EUROS per month!😂

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21 minutes ago, James Regan said:

Spam?

What? You don’t think it is cool to give your hard earned cash to people you don’t even know, and may want to kill you? I bet ISIS members wouldn’t pool their guaranteed basic incomes to buy AK74’s, RPG 7’s and ammo for both!

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Are we really having this convo?   The government takes over everything and pays everyone a basic income?   This is communism?   I have to be dreaming this    I shorted oil and now I have the opportunity to short the Dow   HOW!!!!   The market should be locked limit down right now!!!!

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5 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

A universal basic income? I see a few problems here. Who determines the amount of the basic income? Who pays for it? Is some tribesman in Uganda guaranteed the same income as some student in Denmark?

If Country A is paying into the global fund which is contributing to the payment of someone in Country B, does Country A automatically have a say in the economics of Country B?

Do able bodied people, capable of working, but choose not to and who survive off of the dole or welfare systems in their respective countries qualify for this basic income?

I think this idea of a ‘basic income’ reeks of socialism. If you can work, then you work and live within your means. If for some realistic reason you can not work, then each country should have a ‘safety net’, funded by THEIR citizens.

The whole idea of a universal basic income is ludicrous and smells of unicorn farts.

I'm guessing it doesn't include the entire universe. In fact, I'm going to say it didn't include the entire planet. The USA gets it, and all the Mexicans who can sneak across the border in time, plus a few million other "undocumented" democrats. By the next election they'll be the permanent majority and Malaysia will look like the best managed country around. 

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(edited)

5 hours ago, NessyOil said:

Are we really having this convo?   The government takes over everything and pays everyone a basic income?   This is communism?   I have to be dreaming this    I shorted oil and now I have the opportunity to short the Dow   HOW!!!!   The market should be locked limit down right now!!!!

I think the idea (at least as stated traditionally, it's never been tried at scale) is that it would replace many other wealth transfer programs with something simpler/more efficient:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/30/15712160/basic-income-oecd-aei-replace-welfare-state

Edited by surrept33

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10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

A universal basic income? I see a few problems here. Who determines the amount of the basic income? Who pays for it? Is some tribesman in Uganda guaranteed the same income as some student in Denmark?

If Country A is paying into the global fund which is contributing to the payment of someone in Country B, does Country A automatically have a say in the economics of Country B?

Do able bodied people, capable of working, but choose not to and who survive off of the dole or welfare systems in their respective countries qualify for this basic income?

I think this idea of a ‘basic income’ reeks of socialism. If you can work, then you work and live within your means. If for some realistic reason you can not work, then each country should have a ‘safety net’, funded by THEIR citizens.

The whole idea of a universal basic income is ludicrous and smells of unicorn farts.

It IS socialism.

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The media says that many people in the United States do not attend health systems to treat Covid 19, due to lack of money.
What do you prefer, helping these people pay their medical expenses or infect you, political ideology and religion do not save you.
Trump is right.

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14 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Универсальный основной доход? Я вижу здесь несколько проблем. Кто определяет размер основного дохода? Кто за это платит? Может ли какой-нибудь член племени в Уганде получить такой же доход, как какой-либо студент в Дании?

Если Страна A вносит взносы в глобальный фонд, который вносит вклад в выплаты кому-либо в стране B, имеет ли Страна A право автоматически влиять на экономику страны B?

Имеют ли трудоспособные люди, способные работать, но предпочитающие не работать, и которые выживают за счет пособий по безработице или систем социального обеспечения в своих странах, право на этот основной доход?

Я думаю, что идея «основного дохода» пахнет социализмом. Если вы можете работать, тогда вы работаете и живете по средствам. Если по какой-либо реалистичной причине вы не можете работать, то в каждой стране должна быть «система безопасности», финансируемая их гражданами.

Вся идея универсального базового дохода смешна и пахнет пукает единорога.

I fully agree - UBI, this is a utopia of the type of Universalism "Freedom, Equality and Brotherhood", Democracy, Communism, the European Union (like UBI also comes from the Middle Ages))) ...
Universal basic income can be successful only if it is provided on an ongoing and universal basis and does not force people to work at low wages (and they prefer to relax).
We went through something similar in the USSR (but there the CPSU at least tried to create a new one - Soviet man). Alas, the nature of man is unchanged.
Adherents I suggest conducting an [mental] experiment in an affordable and familiar small group. )))

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On 3/17/2020 at 4:01 PM, Zhong Lu said:

1000 dollars for everyone per month!

That Nigerian prince was for real?? Son of a.......

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(edited)

The thing is we're already doing it.  Trump's leading the charge and it's one of his better ideas.  Now all we have to do is to make it a permanent thing.

And before you ask "how do we pay for it" my response is: but where are the trillions of dollars the Fed and the ECB is creating out of thin air coming from? I mean if we got that much money floating around, we may as well just give it out to you and me.

I don't understand why people refuse free money, but are ok with handing all that money to corporations and banks and airline companies who spent their money on stock buybacks and risky crowded trades that are now blowing up in their faces and now need to be bailed out by the government.  If you think about it that's socialism, too.  

Edited by Zhong Lu
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(edited)

23 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Or it will be utilized to buy drugs, booze and hookers. Although these purchases ‘help the economy’, I do not think this contributes to the social fabric.

How would you possibly guarantee this money would be spent on “necessities”?

Drug dealers, liquor store owners, and prostitutes spend money.  To guarantee that some of the money helps the social fabric you use taxes, specifically "sin taxes."

Use enough taxes and the government gets a good chuck of the money back; use that money to subsidize healthy food. 

Healthy food reduces strain on the health care system...

Edited by Enthalpic
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57 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Drug dealers, liquor store owners, and prostitutes spend money.  To guarantee that some of the money helps the social fabric you use taxes, specifically "sin taxes."

Use enough taxes and the government gets a good chuck of the money back; use that money to subsidize healthy food. 

Healthy food reduces strain on the health care system...

So you’re okay giving your hard earned cash so that other people can go get drunk, high and laid?

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5 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So you’re okay giving your hard earned cash so that other people can go get drunk, high and laid?

"the rest of the money I just waste!"

Obviously I would do the correct capitalist thing and profit off their poor decisions.

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(edited)

8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So you’re okay giving your hard earned cash so that other people can go get drunk, high and laid?

We're already giving hordes of cash to psychopathic CEOs who use all of it to fund stock buybacks so they themselves can make a fortune.  Trump's already talking about using tax money to buy stocks.  I mean, if we're going down that road why not also give money to everyone else? 

The irony is that despite the rhetoric, Trump's economic policies are remarkably friendly to blue states.  Trump's also one of the most socialist presidents I've ever seen.  

Edited by Zhong Lu

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On 3/17/2020 at 10:01 PM, Zhong Lu said:

1000 dollars for everyone per month!

Too much. Automatisation and robotisation is not so far. It has to be started with $500/month per person and be connected to the GDP per capita, IMHO.

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The idea of giving money to anybody, no strings attached is mind boggling!

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Been there, done that.

Don't you remember the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 with the $300/$600 rebate? But nowadays the politicians are better at promising a free lunch. Well the lunch will have to wait till after the restaurants reopen. 

 

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4 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

The idea of giving money to anybody, no strings attached is mind boggling!

The government because of the virus is shutting work down. To help the economy from total collapse the government is trying in a small way to fill the lost wages hole to keep the economy afloat.

During the last crash over a trillion went out. You got links that show prostitution and drugs jumped a trillion during that time?

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6 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

The idea of giving money to anybody, no strings attached is mind boggling!

Would you accept the idea more if you knew You were going to get money every month?

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