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TRUMP pushing Hydroxychloroquine + Zpak therapy forward despite FDA conservative approach. As he reasons, "What have we got to lose ?"

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(edited)

Today Trump moves ahead with a promising therapeutic that could control the virus by summer.

When Trump first asked about the availability of HCQ + ZPAK  his scientific/medical advisors said they might be able to get it out within a year.  Trump said we need it tonight. 

The 80 patient French trial showed 93% of those in the trial of 600mg/day for 10 days were virus free in 8 days.

Yesterday the Surgeon General stated not available until a 2000 patient blinded clinical trial completed by mid to late summer.  That's after they told Trump it would take a year. 

This is an emergency. The safety profile is known.  "What have we got to lose ?"

Hydroxychloroquine is even FDA approved for pregnant women.  It's safe. 

Good update article.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-makes-the-case-for-chloroquine-as-a-covid-19-treatment-though-it-has-not-been-approved-by-the-fda-for-this-illness-2020-03-19

Nothing is certain but time = lives. Time = economy survival.

Teva , Mylan and Bayer ramping production of Hydroxychloroquine. 

Did you notice how Dr. Fauci has downplayed the HCQ + ZPAK therapy.  He didn't want to even mention it until a 2000 patient blinded random trial was completed by the middle to the end of Summer.  Trump said hell with that.  Nothings certain but University Washington is getting some very promising results.  A Florida patient that could barely breath and was on his way out said goodbye to his friends and family.  He was given the therapy. He woke the next morning and felt fine.  Trials started in NYC and Boston this week.  I have a lot of respect for Dr. Fauci  . . . but looks like Trump might be right on this one. 

Edited by BLA
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Then comes the question of what is unique about the FDA's skill set that makes them any more capable of determining the optimal dose etc. than the broad medical community via posting of clinical experience. I would suggest that it is only the Rubber stamp that congress gave them. I think it is time to take it away and put the burden of proof on the FDA on its own dime to recall a faulty drug and take it off the market. The current law simply kills people by the millions.

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CLUTCHING AT STRAWS.

Fact: China gave its citizens, free, 2 ICU hospitals in 14 days and unlimited treatments for months.  USA gives its citizens tents and a poisonous serum.  

 

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(edited)

15 hours ago, frankfurter said:

CLUTCHING AT STRAWS.

Fact: China gave its citizens, free, 2 ICU hospitals in 14 days and unlimited treatments for months.  USA gives its citizens tents and a poisonous serum.  

 

FACT : China gave it's people and the world a pandemic. 

The U.S. will disengage from dangerous Chinese Communist Party (unless Joe Biden gets elected)

Edited by BLA
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(edited)

On 3/21/2020 at 9:27 PM, frankfurter said:

CLUTCHING AT STRAWS.

Fact: China gave its citizens, free, 2 ICU hospitals in 14 days and unlimited treatments for months.  USA gives its citizens tents and a poisonous serum.  

 

I wouldn't call a couple of hundred beds in a hanger with a ventilator an ICU. 

I call it a flop house with ventilators. 

They showed video of the construction and then occupancy .  It was a single story metal construction warehouse like structure.  When occupied it was just beds  lined up side by side.

No units.  No ICUs.  They were able to have ventilators for the patients. China mfg most of them.

What do you expect with 14 days to build. 

China locked infected elderly in their apartments until they died. Nice.

Edited by BLA
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6 minutes ago, BLA said:

I wouldn't call a couple of hundred beds in a hanger with a ventilator an ICU. 

China locked infected elderly in their apartments until the died. Nice.

You are woefully ignorant of facts. Your hatred blinds you.  repeat: China built hospitals, for thousands of beds, fully equipped with ICUs.  America has provided only tents. 

China has sent plane loads of medical supplies, with medical staff, to Europe.  What has America given to its NATO allies? 

 

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(edited)

22 hours ago, BLA said:

Today Trump moves ahead with promising therapeutic that could control the virus by summer.

The 24 patient French trial showed 90% of those tested with 600mg/day for 10 days were 100% free of virus in 6 days.

Yesterday the Surgeon General stated the therapy would not be available until a 2000 patient blinded clinical trial is completed by mid to late summer.

This is an emergency. The safety profile is known.  "What have we got to lose ?"

FDA even approved Hydroxychloroquine  safe to use by pregnant women.  It's safe.

Good update article.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-makes-the-case-for-chloroquine-as-a-covid-19-treatment-though-it-has-not-been-approved-by-the-fda-for-this-illness-2020-03-19

Nothing is certain but time = lives. Time = economy survival.

Teva , Mylan and Bayer ramping production of Hydroxychloroquine. 

 

Edited by BLA
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(edited)

On 3/22/2020 at 9:51 AM, frankfurter said:

You are woefully ignorant of facts. Your hatred blinds you.  repeat: China built hospitals, for thousands of beds, fully equipped with ICUs.  America has provided only tents. 

China has sent plane loads of medical supplies, with medical staff, to Europe.  What has America given to its NATO allies? 

 

THE COMMUNIST AUTHORITARIAN ELITE HAD THE PEOPLES LIBERATION ARMY LOCK THE INFECTED ELDERLY IN THEIR APARTMENTS AND LET THEM DIE !  Sick mother f______s.   

The doctor that first noted the virus last November was arrested and jailed. He later died of the virus.

The CCP ordered destruction 🐲 of all the early data.  

China still holding back information request by CDC.  

There are still tariffs on $250 million 😀 of Chinese products.  The rest will be reinstated if Chinese liars don't fulfill their obligations.

China gave the Italians the deadly virus.  The least they could do is send a couple of pallets of ventilators.  

Would you trust these Chinese liars with your 5G network ?

China has their belt and road claws into Italy.  Big mistake on Italians part.

 

Edited by BLA
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uh, maybe you should read the French reports in French.  24 cases is insufficient to draw any conclusions: any genuine Epidemiologist anywhere and everywhere will confirm this.  Chloroquine has serious side effects and can kill.  All test subjects were 'mild' cases: ie those cases with next to zero symptoms. No test subject was independently verified by any body. For these, 25% remained infected after treatment course. We have no data if the symptoms recurred, nor how long the subjects were/are virus free. The drug is ineffective for serious and critical cases: in fact, it is deadly.  If it were effective, alone, Italy and other countries would not seek help from China. 

The CDC is no longer reporting cases. Your state governments are expecting massive numbers of cases soon.  When covid hits you, and you live to tell, do let us know your progress/recovery with the Chloroquine.

 

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32 minutes ago, BLA said:

THE COMMUNIST AUTHORITARIAN ELITE HAD THE PEOPLES LIBERATION ARMY LOCK THE INFECTED ELDERLY IN THEIR APARTMENTS AND LET THEM DIE !  Sick mother f______s.   

The doctor that first noted the virus last November was arrested and jailed. He later died of the virus.

The Red commies ordered destruction 🐲 of all the early data.  

There are still tariffs on $250 million 😀 of Chinese products.  The rest will be reinstated if Chinese liars don't fulfill their obligations.

China gave the Italians the deadly virus.  The least they could do is send a couple of pallets of ventilators.  

Would you trust these Chinese liars with your 5G network ?

China has their belt and road claws into Italy.  Big mistake on Italians part.

 

Your hatred blinds you.  The Army did not lock up anybody.  Nobody was locked up and left to die.  The Police checked on people daily, and ensured all "lock-ups" received food and water" they were quarantined.  The doctor was not arrested, not jailed.  He was questioned by the Police and instructed not to spread rumours; at that time, neither the Dr nor anybody else knew what the disease was.  He was permitted to return to work the next day.  When he developed a fever, he was treated in the ICU.  True, he passed away: but from the disease, not detention.  True, his is a very tragic case. 

Ample evidence has now been uncovered to assert the covid was 1st developed in the USA.  The American, Dr Boyle, asserts so and he has never retracted his conclusion. The virus 1st appeared in Hawaii and Japan, long before Wuhan.  Patient-zero cannot be determined.  Many more factors. 

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1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

You are woefully ignorant of facts. Your hatred blinds you.  repeat: China built hospitals, for thousands of beds, fully equipped with ICUs.  America has provided only tents. 

China has sent plane loads of medical supplies, with medical staff, to Europe.  What has America given to its NATO allies? 

 

China did build prisons and put patients in them.

The US was unprepared - couldn't help if it wanted to. Bureaucratic blunders held the US back and put it in a terrible position. That was predominantly due to the Bureaucrats following advice from China's National Health Service. 

The US had only one virus sample to work with from an early patient in Seattle at the start of Feb.  China refused to supply any samples at all. 

41 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Your hatred blinds you.  The Army did not lock up anybody.  Nobody was locked up and left to die.  The Police checked on people daily, and ensured all "lock-ups" received food and water" they were quarantined.  The doctor was not arrested, not jailed.  He was questioned by the Police and instructed not to spread rumours; at that time, neither the Dr nor anybody else knew what the disease was.  He was permitted to return to work the next day.  When he developed a fever, he was treated in the ICU.  True, he passed away: but from the disease, not detention.  True, his is a very tragic case. 

Ample evidence has now been uncovered to assert the covid was 1st developed in the USA.  The American, Dr Boyle, asserts so and he has never retracted his conclusion. The virus 1st appeared in Hawaii and Japan, long before Wuhan.  Patient-zero cannot be determined.  Many more factors. 

There were some deliveries to those quarantined at home  other than JD .com and other online orders. Those fell off, and left people to fend for themselves as they fell off. 

The famous doctor was indeed arrested and was forced to sign a document retracting his warning about the spread of a then unknown virus in Wuhan. His warning was "rumors" to the officials. In fact they were medical findings. 

Covid 19 has nothing to do with the US, it is a domestic Chinese concoction, most likely engineered in the Wuhan Biosafety Lab where dozens of recombinant pathogenic viruses were created and researched and published in the virology and medical journals. It has had a bad review by Western visiting scientists who criticized safety and it was by far the most likely source for the coronavirus. 

Your CCP propaganda does not constitute fact. Indeed, if it were fact then they would not have bothered with the propaganda. You should personally find a CCP member and drop them out the nearest window. It is your duty to the Chinese people and humanity in general.

Just as now, testing is no longer reported in order to create the illusion that China magically overcame the virus pandemic. 

Nobody believes anything coming out of the China leadership. Nobody believes you.

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1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

uh, maybe you should read the French reports in French.  24 cases is insufficient to draw any conclusions: any genuine Epidemiologist anywhere and everywhere will confirm this.  Chloroquine has serious side effects and can kill.  All test subjects were 'mild' cases: ie those cases with next to zero symptoms. No test subject was independently verified by any body. For these, 25% remained infected after treatment course. We have no data if the symptoms recurred, nor how long the subjects were/are virus free. The drug is ineffective for serious and critical cases: in fact, it is deadly.  If it were effective, alone, Italy and other countries would not seek help from China. 

The CDC is no longer reporting cases. Your state governments are expecting massive numbers of cases soon.  When covid hits you, and you live to tell, do let us know your progress/recovery with the Chloroquine.

 

That was a quick finding from a basic experiments. Similar work was published by Chinese, S. Korean and Japanese medical researchers, and there are 20 clinical trials ongoing to further test the treatment. 

We do not expect that it would stop the critically ill who's lungs had already been damaged irreversibly. They would die with or without the presence of the drug. It is intended particularly for people at earlier stages of the disease and for health care worker exposed to it.

Your figure of 25% remaining infected was after 3 days of treatment. There were no remaining infected patients after day 6 of the 10 day course. 

I didn't know that medical science was a propaganda target of the CCP. You should be ashamed of yourself. 

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(edited)

6 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Your hatred blinds you.  The Army did not lock up anybody.  Nobody was locked up and left to die.  The Police checked on people daily, and ensured all "lock-ups" received food and water" they were quarantined.  The doctor was not arrested, not jailed.  He was questioned by the Police and instructed not to spread rumours; at that time, neither the Dr nor anybody else knew what the disease was.  He was permitted to return to work the next day.  When he developed a fever, he was treated in the ICU.  True, he passed away: but from the disease, not detention.  True, his is a very tragic case. 

Ample evidence has now been uncovered to assert the covid was 1st developed in the USA.  The American, Dr Boyle, asserts so and he has never retracted his conclusion. The virus 1st appeared in Hawaii and Japan, long before Wuhan.  Patient-zero cannot be determined.  Many more factors. 

Are you a Chinese bot or a CNN News Anchor ?  

You are correct, I do hate the Chinese Communist Party Leadership for what they did to the world .   .   .   Not the Chinese people.

But I'm not blinded.  I can see very clearly the brutality the Chinese leaders are capable of.  THE ACTIONS OF THE CCP HAVE NOT BLINDED ME .  IT HAS OPENED MY EYES TO THEIR TRUE NATURE.

When 350 million U.S. citizens open their Q1 401k statements and see they have lost 35% of their retirement savings THEY WILL HATE THE BRUTAL LYING AUTHORITARIAN COMMUNIST PARTY ELITE AND THE COMMUNIST PEOPLES LIBERATION ARMY.

Deservingly so.

Edited by BLA
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1 hour ago, BLA said:

THE COMMUNIST AUTHORITARIAN ELITE HAD THE PEOPLES LIBERATION ARMY LOCK THE INFECTED ELDERLY IN THEIR APARTMENTS AND LET THEM DIE !  Sick mother f______s.   

 

They welded doors shut and were considering letting Wuhan starve to death by stopping food trucks from coming in to the city. If it were not for the city's port which allowed massive deliveries with no virus transmission then the city would have been starved to death by the authorities. 

 

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(edited)

On 3/22/2020 at 10:34 AM, frankfurter said:

uh, maybe you should read the French reports in French.  24 cases is insufficient to draw any conclusions: any genuine Epidemiologist anywhere and everywhere will confirm this.  Chloroquine has serious side effects and can kill.  All test subjects were 'mild' cases: ie those cases with next to zero symptoms. No test subject was independently verified by any body. For these, 25% remained infected after treatment course. We have no data if the symptoms recurred, nor how long the subjects were/are virus free. The drug is ineffective for serious and critical cases: in fact, it is deadly.  If it were effective, alone, Italy and other countries would not seek help from China. 

The CDC is no longer reporting cases. Your state governments are expecting massive numbers of cases soon.  When covid hits you, and you live to tell, do let us know your progress/recovery with the Chloroquine.

 

FDA has approved the drug for multiple therapies.  The FDA has even approved the drug safe for pregnant women.  

I hear their can be a build up of residue in the retina of the eye of some.  But when monitored can be corrected. 

This is true. 

The U.S. relationship with China is going to change.

If Italy wants to eat your propaganda so be it. 

Edited by BLA
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2 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Ample evidence has now been uncovered to assert the covid was 1st developed in the USA.  The American, Dr Boyle, asserts so and he has never retracted his conclusion. The virus 1st appeared in Hawaii and Japan, long before Wuhan.  Patient-zero cannot be determined.  Many more factors. 

You must think Americans are as gullible as Chinese peasants to swallow this cock and bull. If this highly contagious virus originated in Hawaii, why do they only have 19 cases today? Nonsense on stilts. 

You were gone exactly 9 days. All done with your quarantine? 

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Nigerian Twitters are finding it hysterical that what they've been using for decades could save the day. I'm a bit skeptical about this, because Zpac is an antibiotic and useless on viruses.

In any case, this isn't something the President should be announcing. If it's real then let someone who knows something about medicine announce it.

In the meantime I'm out of tonic for my G&T.

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38 minutes ago, Geoff Guenther said:

Nigerian Twitters are finding it hysterical that what they've been using for decades could save the day. I'm a bit skeptical about this, because Zpac is an antibiotic and useless on viruses.

In any case, this isn't something the President should be announcing. If it's real then let someone who knows something about medicine announce it.

In the meantime I'm out of tonic for my G&T.

People don't die from the virus, they die from the bacterial pneumonia that takes hold in the inflamed lung tissue, so stopping the bacterial infection helps just as much as stopping the virus. Of course, the chances of a critical patient surviving with or without the drug cocktail is pretty slim. 

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40 minutes ago, Geoff Guenther said:

In any case, this isn't something the President should be announcing. If it's real then let someone who knows something about medicine announce it.

As a doctor, I find myself in an awkward position of wondering if you're right about that. Why? Because the FDA is the slowest-moving body politic in the world. Left to their own devices, they'd supervise clinical trials on this until we run out of still-viable human beings to test.

Z-pack is a third-rate, overused antibiotic and Chloroquine is an ancient drug. But my gosh, we have decades of experience with both of them; each one causes some side-effects but not much against the backdrop of a pandemic of this nature. 

Here's the thing: if you're headed for a ventilator, dying, and you had the option of taking these two approved drugs for the off-label use of maybe preventing your death, would you go for it? I would too. And I strongly suspect if the current FDA head doesn't agree with allowing them to be used, he'll be replaced some time about the middle of the week by someone who will. 

Trump has used the bully pulpit on this because his people have told him that these two drugs are unlikely to kill anyone and quite possibly might save lives. If he waited for someone like Tony Fauci (as much as I respect Dr. Fauci) to say this, or the FDA chief, he'd never get it said. 

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(edited)

The key is to get it to the patients before they have to go on the ventilator.  

A doctor on TV today disputed Dr. Fauci comment that the results on the French 24 patient trial were "anecdotal".  Stating while just a small sample were still meaningful. He said the presiding doctor has an excellent reputation.

Edited by BLA
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19 minutes ago, BLA said:

The key is to get it to the patients before they have to go on the ventilator.  

A doctor on TV today disputed Dr. Fauci comment that the results on the French 24 patient trial were "anecdotal".  Stating while just a small sample were still meaningful. He said the presiding doctor is reputable. 

The doctor is a premier infectious diseases guy. He stands a thousand feet tall relative to Fauci in the field. Only a bureaucrat would think that the super hard differential in outcomes requires a larger trial and double blind protocols at the same institution. Those requirements are for comparing 45% success to 55% success, not for 100% success vs. 0% for the controls.

The FDA seems incapable of making decisions based on science and thinks that it has more ability to make determinations better than the medical community can by sharing their clinical experience. Obviously it is exactly the other way around. And the urgency should go far beyond their normal nonchalance  towards terminal cancer lung and heart disease patients who have their new last ditch drugs delayed sometimes for years. This is not 0.3% of the population per year, This is 5% of the population if the medical system is overwhelmed (it is in NYC already). 

They will figure out a one click method to enroll anyone in the "trial" while ignoring the control group. I am certain that drug companies are paying the FDA's comish's family and friends with goodies to get him to kill this cheap treatment so they can clean out the world's pockets with a new antiviral still under patent. 

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I went to the pharmacy today for a Rx refill (avoided the Dr office and got her to write the script).

Out of curiosity asked the pharmacist if she had any Hydroxychloroquine in stock.  Indeed she did,  not sure why a small drug store in Fort Saskatchewan Alberta stocks antimalarial medication but she had it.

 

 

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Just now, Enthalpic said:

I went to the pharmacy today for a Rx refill (avoided the Dr office and got her to write the script).

Out of curiosity asked the pharmacist if she had any Hydroxychloroquine in stock.  Indeed she did,  not sure why a small drug store in Fort Saskatchewan Alberta stocks antimalarial medication but she had it.

 

 

Used for Rheumatoid arthritis too.

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(edited)

3 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

As a doctor, I find myself in an awkward position of wondering if you're right about that. Why? Because the FDA is the slowest-moving body politic in the world. Left to their own devices, they'd supervise clinical trials on this until we run out of still-viable human beings to test.

Z-pack is a third-rate, overused antibiotic and Chloroquine is an ancient drug. But my gosh, we have decades of experience with both of them; each one causes some side-effects but not much against the backdrop of a pandemic of this nature. 

Here's the thing: if you're headed for a ventilator, dying, and you had the option of taking these two approved drugs for the off-label use of maybe preventing your death, would you go for it? I would too. And I strongly suspect if the current FDA head doesn't agree with allowing them to be used, he'll be replaced some time about the middle of the week by someone who will. 

Trump has used the bully pulpit on this because his people have told him that these two drugs are unlikely to kill anyone and quite possibly might save lives. If he waited for someone like Tony Fauci (as much as I respect Dr. Fauci) to say this, or the FDA chief, he'd never get it said. 

Indeed, handed out like candy.

Edited by Enthalpic
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5 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

"As a doctor, I find myself in an awkward position of wondering if you're right about that. Why? Because the FDA is the slowest-moving body politic in the world. Left to their own devices, they'd supervise clinical trials on this until we run out of still-viable human beings to test."

It's already happening at U Minnesota:

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/chloroquine-covid-19-treatment/

The intent though, is not to give it to them as they need a ventilator. First symptoms, or even prophylactically seems to be the best bet. I'd demand it in a heartbeat if I came down with a fever right now.

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