Why Trump Is Right to Re-Open the Economy

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

22 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

Chinese or US ?

Both are understated.

But the type of this crisis makes substantial data fraud in China difficult.

They relaxed most of quarantine measures, if they lied they would have another wave of massive cases starting to unravel just now.

You cannot hide 10,000 new cases even in dictatorship like China, and it would be already reality.

^

This

I think you underestimate the CCP Marcin

This virus spreads too damn fast for China to only have 67 new cases and 6 new deaths yesterday out of a population of 1.4 billion

Lockdown or no lockdown, by their own admission they still have 1235 serious/critical cases, yet only 6 deaths, Give me a break!

Spain had 3166 serious/critical and had 718 deaths, Italy very similar

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

38 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

At least you can watch your paint dry!🤣

...and I am!

[El Nikko + 2,145]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

yes it truly is surreal.

it is not true by a long shot to say "no one is working", I am, and there are many many businesses still open and rightly so according to government guidelines. However the economic implications and rescue plans in place are truly frightening.

The cost is astronomical, many trillions of pounds this year alone. I feel sorry for those just starting their working life as they will be paying for this for the rest of their days!

 

WHere I live (Anglesey) people have made up rules that are not from the government, and they spread them all over facebook to the point where people who carried on working were being called selfish unless they were in the category of essential workers. Of course they misinterpreted this because the only people allowed to send thir kids to school are the essential workers. I spend ages trying to tell people to stop the hysteria and that you CAN go to work but you are supposed to go straight there and then go home and not congregate and I have been given loads of abuse for that not even joking!

So we're talking hundreds, possibly thousands, of perfectly healthy people 'self isolating' for no reason and business's shutting down. The really sad thing is many of them work cash in hand or are low paid and are not going to get compensated. Most of the fishing boats are not working either. I really did try so hard to help people but the Facebook mob made it pointless. I have a friend who is a builder, he has continued to work in Manchester and people have been videoing him and no doubt putting it on social media to show what a selfish person he is.

To make matters worse this island relies hugely on tourism, a load of people turned up on holiday (who should not have) and caused mass panic as if the bubonic plague was arriving and some stupid people actally destroy caravans and smashed up cars. When this is over there will be implications to come for some time.

We've got police pulling people over all the time to see why they are out, roads shut all kinds of crazy stuff...meanwhile the London Tube is still running packed like sardine cans.

Yesterday I was in the garden with my two dogs and a drone flew over. It stopped and hovered right above my garden and sat there, after a minute it flew off. 5 minutes later when I was hearding them back to the house (they've gone a bit loopy as it's spring like the horses lol) this drone came back and did the same again and stayed there for ages. Some wierdo no doubt has decided he is going to police what people are doing. I know in some places in the UK people have been inundated with calls 'informing' on dog walkers, people running etc.

I thouhg Boris and Gove were both very clear about what you could do especially for excercise but nope, the masses have spoken and solitary fishing in the middle of nowhere on the coast is off the table.

I agree about the economic implications and as they say, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

So much for the 'Blitz spirit' lol

[El Nikko + 2,145]

4 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

What? WHAT???

Your totally incompetent excuse of a president made New York healthcare staff face the waves of ill people dressed in garbage bags! He ignored their pleas, spreading lies and unscientific garbage, and people died because of that. And the douchebag of a governor of Texas had the nerve to urge the elderly people to ... die and stop slowing down the US economy? That's the most horrible and selfish thing anyone has ever said since Hitler shot himself trhough the head!

And you, as a proper hypocrite, are not worried what is going on or what will happen next, but "how will it look compared to China?"

My friend, compared to China, the USA already looks like the most backward country at the edge of the Flat-Earth!

Wake the f%#k up!!!

1. He's not my president, I am in the UK

2. If China's figures are correct I will eat my hat

3. Why would any country not take this oportunity to show just how rapidly they can react with a situation? Look at the deployment of hospital ships etc, they might not even get used but it looks good and calms the public

4. Deaths world wide are still pretty small compared to many other pandemics in recent times

5. Old people have been told to isolate, no contact..no catchy the virus

6. We will just have to wait and see...the figures will start coming in and the death rate as a percentage will plummet as mass testing gets underway...it's just how it always works

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by El Nikko

[El Nikko + 2,145]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Do you remember Brexit?

Dont see much of that in the news anymore lol

It's been a good month to bury bad news as well, wonder what else has flown under the radar

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

18 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

WHere I live (Anglesey) people have made up rules that are not from the government, and they spread them all over facebook to the point where people who carried on working were being called selfish unless they were in the category of essential workers. Of course they misinterpreted this because the only people allowed to send thir kids to school are the essential workers. I spend ages trying to tell people to stop the hysteria and that you CAN go to work but you are supposed to go straight there and then go home and not congregate and I have been given loads of abuse for that not even joking!

So we're talking hundreds, possibly thousands, of perfectly healthy people 'self isolating' for no reason and business's shutting down. The really sad thing is many of them work cash in hand or are low paid and are not going to get compensated. Most of the fishing boats are not working either. I really did try so hard to help people but the Facebook mob made it pointless. I have a friend who is a builder, he has continued to work in Manchester and people have been videoing him and no doubt putting it on social media to show what a selfish person he is.

To make matters worse this island relies hugely on tourism, a load of people turned up on holiday (who should not have) and caused mass panic as if the bubonic plague was arriving and some stupid people actally destroy caravans and smashed up cars. When this is over there will be implications to come for some time.

We've got police pulling people over all the time to see why they are out, roads shut all kinds of crazy stuff...meanwhile the London Tube is still running packed like sardine cans.

Yesterday I was in the garden with my two dogs and a drone flew over. It stopped and hovered right above my garden and sat there, after a minute it flew off. 5 minutes later when I was hearding them back to the house (they've gone a bit loopy as it's spring like the horses lol) this drone came back and did the same again and stayed there for ages. Some wierdo no doubt has decided he is going to police what people are doing. I know in some places in the UK people have been inundated with calls 'informing' on dog walkers, people running etc.

I thouhg Boris and Gove were both very clear about what you could do especially for excercise but nope, the masses have spoken and solitary fishing in the middle of nowhere on the coast is off the table.

I agree about the economic implications and as they say, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

So much for the 'Blitz spirit' lol

I'm in sunny Wolverhampton!

Heart of the metal bashing industry (which is what my factory does). Most people who should be are going to work as normal. No mass groups of people to be seen. Social distancing all being observed.

Unless of course its when the supermarket opens and then its back to hundreds of people queuing up irresponsibly like cattle waiting for a prod! The morons in this country beggar belief, its like all of a sudden hundreds spill out of the asylum (their local housing estate) and they are like charging wildebeast on the Serengeti to get to the shops before the last toilet roll gets sold.

I love my country but some of its residents have an IQ of below 50 unfortunately.

[Marcin2 + 725]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

^

This

I think you underestimate the CCP Marcin

This virus spreads too damn fast for China to only have 67 new cases and 6 new deaths yesterday out of a population of 1.4 billion

Lockdown or no lockdown, by their own admission they still have 1235 serious/critical cases, yet only 6 deaths, Give me a break!

Spain had 3166 serious/critical and had 718 deaths, Italy very similar

In Spain and Italy serious/critical is often just a death sentence with lack of ventilators, ICU beds.

You are over 65 the hospital is just a morgue with staff in White attire.

In South Korea and China you get ECMO and your chances of survival during critical week or 2 just skyrocket.

Serious/critical is 20% of total cases, 1-2% of total or 5%-10% of serious/ critical will not make it. 1200 cases, 60-120 will die, with ECMO and dialyses it can last for a long time, till Heart & Liver works, even 20 days , 6 deaths are perfectly reasonable.

Please just give contra argument how when quarantine is relaxed in China they could hide Second massive wave ? ( provided that new cases data are fake by a large margin).

Remember there are at least 1,000,000 foreigners plus 1,000,000 Taiwanese in China at the moment. None of them would report strange situations of medical evacuation, quarantine and disinfection of buildings ?

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Marcin see the table unless you are disputing these numbers!

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

6 deaths are a joke!

People are still travelling to China???

Really???

Where are these 1,000,000 foreigners from???

I was under the impression nobody was flying anywhere for the time being and more than half the globe was in lockdown!

You are crazy if you believe what you have written

Edited March 28, 2020 by Rob Plant

[Marcin2 + 725]

Rob, 1 million expats in China, they had not just left, they have lives. The same as my foreign tenants, people just do not leave the country cause air flight is a big risk. Expats are not under social scoring, they would speak up.

That is just my opinion.

I do not want to defend specific numbers, there could be 20 or 30 deaths each day, but 200 or 300 would definitely surface.

My general idea they contained it cause are obedient East Asians with bee hive mentality.

In Warsaw I observe irresponsible people, lack of control of movement, although we have official countrywide lockdown. My parents are often traveling to summer house to work in the garden, it is perfectly safe cause they have No contacts, but never stopped by police.

I have friends that had contact abroad with people that later turned out to be infected and they reported this but there was No follow up from authorities, they are in self imposed quarantine but outside of official statistics/registry.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[SERWIN + 749]

3 hours ago, El Nikko said:

It's been a good month to bury bad news as well, wonder what else has flown under the radar

Funny thing is, right now we aren't having to listen to some "transgendered" WIERDO being caught in the women's restroom, or whining about their rights. Seems like everyone all of a sudden knows what bathroom they should use when in public. I actually did stop a guy trying to go in the women's bathroom right after my wife. I simply told him that the term "life in prison" really didn't mean that much at my age. He stopped and waited for her to come out....LMAO

[kshithij Sharma + 78]

On 3/26/2020 at 4:24 AM, 0R0 said:

Absolutely right.

The entire lockdown response was idiotic from the start. You locked down the entire population instead of protecting the elderly and old that are at high risk. For everyone else, getting the disease over with is the greatest protection. Not designating protection for the high risk group and not even slightly focusing the action on their protection is truly counterproductive. You eliminated the resources of the economy in order to protect the high risk group instead of directly protecting them. 

At an average lifetime income of US individuals at $2.7 mil, the current economic shutdowns are equal to killing appx. 200,000 people a month in the US. 

That is not a proper balance of trade offs. 

The only reason we are doing this is because China did and we believe it made a difference. It did slow down the disease, but I would be surprised if it didn't infect at least 20% of the population if not all of it before the quarantine started. Thus the pandemic stopped because so many people became immune to it. Not because its spread was halted. 

Katz is absolutely right. 

 

Do you get immunity to common cold? I don't think so as I keep getting it since I was a child. I get fever almost every year due to cold and still after so many years I have not hot any immunity. Similarly, this SARS2 virus is unlikely to give immunity to the infected, at least, not for long. Also, the spread is so rapid that it becomes impossible to contain without social distancing. Herd immunity doesn't work in case of a disease that spreads this fast. Also, the mortality rate is pretty high, far higher than flue or influenza. Even worse, healthcare workers who get exposed in high dosage will get serious infection that van lead to death, even if the person is in his 20s or 30s.

Chinese infection was mainly in Hubei province and the large number of people in villages and other province were mostly untouched. So, Chinese didn't have a major infection numbers. Moreover, Chinese did have experience handling SARS on 2003 and hence that helped them understand the situation quickly.

But social distancing doesn't work unless one can ensure that people stay in homes like in China. Chinese authorities were very strict and even locked fee people who were defiant in their house. Other countries will find it hard to do this. Chinese could do strict quarantine because the property is owned by the state but it is not the case in many other countries.

 

[wrs + 893]

Some people do have a much higher resistance to the common cold.  I haven't had a cold or flu in many years.  I had the Hong Kong flue in 1968 at the age of 12 and have never had the flue since.  I never get a flue shot.  I can't remember the last time I had a fever from a cold.  I had really bad tumor fevers when I had cancer 14 years ago.  Other than cancer I have been very healthy all my life.

All that having been said, I am taking precautions here because I could be a spreader and I don't know how I will react to this.  I am now 64 and maybe not as robust as I was in the past but I feel strong still.

Edited March 27, 2020 by wrs

[SERWIN + 749]

6 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

^

This

I think you underestimate the CCP Marcin

This virus spreads too damn fast for China to only have 67 new cases and 6 new deaths yesterday out of a population of 1.4 billion

Lockdown or no lockdown, by their own admission they still have 1235 serious/critical cases, yet only 6 deaths, Give me a break!

Spain had 3166 serious/critical and had 718 deaths, Italy very similar

So I was reading that all of a sudden 21 million cell phones in China are no longer, just dissapeared... I don't know how to verify that one, but if it's true then.... OMG. If that were true and I was a general in the armed forces, then Xi would be hanging from a rope, and soon!!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

8 hours ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

"I think they think we're doing a really good job in terms of running this whole situation having to do with the virus," [...] a lot of good things are happening." (Donald Trump)

The US now has more confirmed cases of coronavirus than any other country, with more than 85,500 positive tests. 

Just go on with your wonderful idea of packing the churches with people for Eastern and soon the US will also overpass Italy in the number of deaths.

 

 

 

 

 

Trump didn't say to pack the churches by Easter and neither did I. He said he would love to get the economy going about that time.

President Trump said Tuesday during a Fox News virtual townhall that he wants the country’s economy re-opened by Easter amid questions over how long people should stay home and businesses should remain closed to slow the spread of coronavirus.

Speaking from the Rose Garden alongside others on his coronavirus taskforce, Trump said he "would love to have the country opened up and just raring to go by Easter." The holiday this year lands on April 12.

Trump argued he doesn’t want “to turn the country off” and see a continued economic downfall from the pandemic. He also said he worries the U.S. will see "suicides by the thousands" if coronavirus devastates the economy.

We currently have about one third the infections that an equivalent population in Europe has. Eventually it will even out and most people will be infected, just as in most prior pandemics. Herd immunity will kick in and some aged and other infirm will die in dwindling numbers. None of this is new! We have been through this and lost lots of lives before.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3 hours ago, SERWIN said:

Funny thing is, right now we aren't having to listen to some "transgendered" WIERDO being caught in the women's restroom, or whining about their rights. Seems like everyone all of a sudden knows what bathroom they should use when in public. I actually did stop a guy trying to go in the women's bathroom right after my wife. I simply told him that the term "life in prison" really didn't mean that much at my age. He stopped and waited for her to come out....LMAO

Good for you!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I love my country but some of its residents have an IQ of below 50 unfortunately.

50 is the new 100.  Lemming herd effect.

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

On 3/24/2020 at 11:36 PM, Daniel Ryslink said:

Trump is basing his decisions on anti-scientific wishful thinking of his crony oligarch friends, of course their profits are vanishing, so it's back to work for the american slave citizen. How easier it all was for these plutocrats before damned Lincoln came around, right?

The funniest thing about this is that you're oblivious to how many extraordinary claims you've just made without a damned shred of support. 

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

11 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

What? WHAT???

Your totally incompetent excuse of a president made New York healthcare staff face the waves of ill people dressed in garbage bags! He ignored their pleas, spreading lies and unscientific garbage, and people died because of that. And the douchebag of a governor of Texas had the nerve to urge the elderly people to ... die and stop slowing down the US economy? That's the most horrible and selfish thing anyone has ever said since Hitler shot himself trhough the head!

Oh look, another tool who didn't pass high school chemistry. If you're talking about the arizona man, you've just demonstrated that you know next to nothing about drugs or chemical compounds and names. 

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

8 hours ago, Boat said:

That’s what you red Republicans claimed as Katrina was killing Americans. GW, Trump and the right are just poor managers. They deny and then quickly become overwhelmed. Same O’l song and dance.

Would you please fade back into obscurity? 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Why flattening the curve is important. 

https://www.nytimes.com/article/flatten-curve-coronavirus.html

[ronwagn + 6,290]

California dumped emergency field hospitals and supplies!

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-27/coronavirus-california-mobile-hospitals-ventilators

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Numbers mean little without a good analysis with satellites views over time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/opinion/coronavirus-china-numbers.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

 

[infotrad 0]

Ronwgn:

While you package your arguments with false quotes (e.g. "SARS will kill us all") to keep a positive spin on things, you are nevertheless basing yourself on false premises. Maybe because you are a fan of Drumpf!?

Whether Drumps happens to be right or wrong is a moot point, given that he does not take reality into account. So it's like saying that his broken clock is correct twice a day.

Edited March 27, 2020 by infotrad

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

27 minutes ago, infotrad said:

While you package your arguments with false quotes (e.g. "SARS will kill us all") to keep a positive spin on things, you are nevertheless basing yourself on false premises. Maybe because you are a fan of Drumpf!?

Pretty sure Ron didn't say that, unless he was joking.

And a warm welcome to the newest Drumpf hater here.  Carry on.

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

Donald J. Trump

 

General Motors MUST immediately open their stupidly abandoned Lordstown plant in Ohio, or some other plant, and START MAKING VENTILATORS, NOW!!!!!! FORD, GET GOING ON VENTILATORS, FAST!!!!!! @GeneralMotors @Ford

 

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1243559373395410957

Edited March 28, 2020 by Yoshiro Kamamura