Why the Interest

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I have a question for many of the non-American, non-Chinese members on this forum:

Why do you focus so much attention on President Trump and American politics?

Obviously, due to the ongoing trade war and the COVID-19 pandemic, there will be a significant amount of discourse between the American and Chinese members,?This is to be expected as these issues have a direct impact on both ‘camps’.

What I find interesting is the unnatural interest in American politics and the legal system from the European or British contingent. Do you not have similar issues in your own countries to discuss? Are your governments working seamlessly to address them? Are your politicians all blameless concerning recent events?

You don’t have any ‘skin’ in the American game, so why the interest and comments?

One individual told me that due to the fact that anything that America does, affects the entire international community. This may be so, but this line of reasoning could also be applied to each European country, Great Britain, and the European Union.

I am curious as to why you are so interested in, and comment on, American politics but rarely post anything concerning your own.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Yep, this should be a fun thread to moderate.  Thanks Douglas  : )

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

P.S.   a warm welcome to all of the brand new, bored, fresh members of the forum.  Hope everyone is enjoying their respective lockdowns.  I am  : )

This forum is a bit ... um ... unusual.  But it can be uniquely entertaining and informative.  Your mileage may vary.  Although with gasoline prices so dang low, it seems mileage no longer matters.

 

Anyway, please do feel free to complain loudly to @Douglas Buckland about Trump, he really enjoys hearing feedback about how much of a tyrannical dictator the horrible Orange Man is. 

Have fun !

[LiamP + 168]

OK I'll go first! I'm a noob so no reputation to jeopardise. There seems to be plenty of love for Trump in here, so you might not like what you hear, but you asked!

Some obvious more general reasons I can think of first...

1. Simply most folk here are American. That's pretty common in international English language forums for many areas of interest for obvious reasons, so most of the discussion seems US-centric. Us non-Americans generally just like to join in and chat with you guys on whatever is being discussed, occasionally interjecting with things like 'damnit USA isn't the entire world you know!'. We could make threads or sub-forums for our 'minority interests', but realistically speaking, if I was starting threads here about UK politics, or even worse Norwegian, it would just be tumbleweeds.

2. America is big! American values and culture permeate our own societies more than any other nations. I grew up loving American 80s TV shows and movies, listening to American artists, etc etc. Americans were cool. Everyone wants to go to America. American politics are on the news here a lot. What the US is up to is a much more significant ingredient in our everyday lives than any foreign nation is in yours. Always been that way. So of course we all think we know as much about US politics as any American!

But the fascination with Trump specifically, that's different. Best I can describe it is a morbid curiosity. A captivating mixture of high comedy to amuse us and deep concern about where the hell the biggest superpower on the globe is headed, with inevitably much of the west following.

He obviously has enough support in the US to have been elected, and, I shudder at the thought, probably to be elected again. But support outside the US for Trump... how can I put it... it's low. We're not so subject to the polarised partisan media in the US, so we generally just get reports on the things he says and the things he does, in full context with rational analysis and commentary. And a lot of the time what comes out of his mouth, or through his fingers on Twitter is just so bizarre and so unlike anything we've ever seen from a world leader it is just hilarious. We genuinely can't believe you guys elected this man as President.

But at the same time, like I said, genuine concern as, with reckless abandon, he insults long-time allies, pokes enemies, rips up international treaties, starts trade wars that even the US suffers from, pulls out of the WHO, builds his Great Wall of America, argues with journalists like a teenager, etc etc.

Many of us grew up looking up to America as the coolest nation in the world, leaders in Science and tech, leading in culture and values. Now, not so much. Sad to say America is increasingly becoming more of a backwards laughing stock in the eyes of the rest of the world, and it's getting harder and harder for our own leaders to deal with the US seriously and take them seriously. If Trump gets another round I cant imagine how far the reputation of the US is going to fall in the eyes of the rest of the world.

So yeah - fascinating!

Edited April 17, 2020 by LiamP

[Marcin2 + 725]

My main interest in Trump and US politics is due to my country (Poland) having skin in the game cause United States provides security and stabilization for Europe under NATO banner.

In my opinion modern history rhymes with 1930s tendencies.

My major concern is not about physical security of Europe, but about how growing self isolation of United States leaves void that is eagerly filled by smart and expansive China that is leading the pack of authoritarian countries.

US noticed Chinese existence and threat ( give  Trump credit for this) but is still not able for any constructive actions. And China doubled down on development and is actively engaged in crafting economic (BRI, AIIB), military and political (SCO, influence on ASEAN, UN, OAU) etc.) basis for Pax Sinica.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

36 minutes ago, LiamP said:

OK I'll go first! I'm a noob so no reputation to jeopardise. There seems to be plenty of love for Trump in here, so you might not like what you hear, but you asked!

Some obvious more general reasons I can think of first...

1. Simply most folk here are American. That's pretty common in international English language forums for many areas of interest for obvious reasons, so most of the discussion seems US-centric. Us non-Americans generally just like to join in and chat with you guys on whatever is being discussed, occasionally interjecting with things like 'damnit USA isn't the entire world you know!'. We could make threads or sub-forums for our 'minority interests', but realistically speaking, if I was starting threads here about UK politics, or even worse Norwegian, it would just be tumbleweeds.

2. America is big! American values and culture permeate our own societies more than any other nations. I grew up loving American 80s TV shows and movies, listening to American artists, etc etc. Americans were cool. Everyone wants to go to America. American politics are on the news here a lot. What the US is up to is a much more significant ingredient in our everyday lives than any foreign nation is in yours. Always been that way. So of course we all think we know as much about US politics as any American!

But the fascination with Trump specifically, that's different. Best I can describe it is a morbid curiosity. A captivating mixture of high comedy to amuse us and deep concern about where the hell the biggest superpower on the globe is headed, with inevitably much of the west following.

He obviously has enough support in the US to have been elected, and, I shudder at the thought, probably to be elected again. But support outside the US for Trump... how can I put it... it's low. We're not so subject to the polarised partisan media in the US, so we generally just get reports on the things he says and the things he does, in full context with rational analysis and commentary. And a lot of the time what comes out of his mouth, or through his fingers on Twitter is just so bizarre and so unlike anything we've ever seen from a world leader it is just hilarious. We genuinely can't believe you guys elected this man as President.

But at the same time, like I said, genuine concern as, with reckless abandon, he insults long-time allies, pokes enemies, rips up international treaties, starts trade wars that even the US suffers from, pulls out of the WHO, builds his Great Wall of America, argues with journalists like a teenager, etc etc.

Many of us grew up looking up to America as the coolest nation in the world, leaders in Science and tech, leading in culture and values. Now, not so much. Sad to say America is increasingly becoming more of a backwards laughing stock in the eyes of the rest of the world, and it's getting harder and harder for our own leaders to deal with the US seriously and take them seriously. If Trump gets another round I cant imagine how far the reputation of the US is going to fall in the eyes of the rest of the world.

So yeah - fascinating!

So, don’t deal with us and tell YOUR leaders not to follow Trump! If you disagree with the decision to defund the WHO, feel free to contribute the missing funding. Heck, for that matter, take over the US contribution for the entire UN mission!

You may laugh at us, but that goes both ways, believe me.

The international community seems to want the US to isolate itself, up to the point where the US ceases to fund initiatives that benefit others, while they laugh!

I am guessing that those freeloading days are over...hopefully!

Trump is a shoo-in for another term, may as well get used to it...

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

30 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

My main interest in Trump and US politics is due to my country (Poland) having skin in the game cause United States provides security and stabilization for Europe under NATO banner.

In my opinion modern history rhymes with 1930s tendencies.

My major concern is not about physical security of Europe, but about how growing self isolation of United States leaves void that is eagerly filled by smart and expansive China that is leading the pack of authoritarian countries.

US noticed Chinese existence and threat ( give  Trump credit for this) but is still not able for any constructive actions. And China doubled down on development and is actively engaged in crafting economic (BRI, AIIB), military and political (SCO, influence on ASEAN, UN, OAU) etc.) basis for Pax Sinica.

So, start providing your own damn security! Isn’t it YOUR country?

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

17 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Trump is a shoo-in for another term, may as well get used to it...

That would seem to be more and mre likely to be the case. I would not have thought so six months ago; indeed, I had predicted that Mr. Trump would not run for re-election, as he is not a man to countenance being defeated.   At this point, he would appear unstoppable.  And there are perfectly good reasons for that.   

What I find fascinating is that the Democrats, the other Party in the US Duopoly political system, cannot see it.  Amazing stuff.  They actually think they can recycle this Biden guy and prevail over the Trump Political Machine.  A complete delusion.  

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 hour ago, LiamP said:

OK I'll go first! I'm a noob so no reputation to jeopardise. There seems to be plenty of love for Trump in here, so you might not like what you hear, but you asked!

I would like to thank Liam for his most thoughtful comments, and look forward to reading his contributions in the future.  

I would make a very, very brief responsive comment  (and for me, "brief" is in the eye of the beholder).  Tghere may well be "love for Trump" here, but that does not mean that the readership here (including me) and the rest of Americans actually like the guy.  What you are missing is that America has this group of pundits, think-tank guys, "newscasters" (that are politicians that do not actually run for office but shoot their mouths off), and assorted hangers-on that ride around in limousines, insist on police escorts to run across town (that town being Washington, D.C.) with sirens screaming, and other introverted, narcissistic, arrogant, and insolent behavior towards the average American  (and total disdain for the rest of the planet, specifically including Poland and Canada, and of course Mexico except when it is inconvenient), and they have this attitude that they have this droit du roi to be perpetually in charge (and be elected and re-elected forever), and this droit du seigneur only one step away from prima noche, and it has gotten to the point where Mr. Ordinary American now distrusts that crowd.  

What the pundits class does not grasp is that once the population distrusts you, it is basically all over.  And the Pundit crowd in America is oblivious to the raw truth that the average Amereicans no longer trust them.  That truth has gone right through them.

The one family that destroyed it all for the chattering classes is Mr. and Mrs. Clinton.   Europeans do not grasp the impact that the behavior ofthe Clintons has had on Americans.  You have this man, a husband and father, that engages in abusive behavior with some 20-year-old intern, a naive and emotionally needy, immature, undeveloped, even fat, girl/woman inside the Oval Office, while simultaneously talking on the phone woth some Congressman.  Now, America was just revolted by that, just collectively shamed and disgusted.  Should Mr. Clinton have been expelled from office?  But of course.  Then his wife proceeds to loot the White House of various goods and furniture on moving out, to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars of goods, in a disgusting display of crass self-importance. 

Do the Democrats recognize that this is just awful, that as a Party they need to dump these Clintons?  Nope.  The pundits, talking heads, and self-aggrandizers proceed to run her as Senator from New York.  And then they go and run her for President!  Did it sink in that Clintons' behavior is just so un-American, so representative of self-aggrandizement and narcissism and a "F**k-the-deplorables people" attitude that nobody is going to trust that Party any more?  Nope.  Just goes right over their heads.

So the People can and do no longer trust that crowd, and that leaves them with the Republicans, except the same rot has seeped into that Party, until Mr., Trump surfaces out of nowhere.  OK, he had this faux-life as a TV Showman with his The Apprentice rubbish, but that got his name out there. Trump prevails because he is the "least-worst," the man who recognizes that vast amounts of D.C. are pure parasitic rot, that the Government has become grotesquely inflated and vast numbers need to be fired, and that the "political class" is about where the Russian Aristocracy was before the Winter Revolution.  So, he gets voted in as the New Leader.

Europeans are appalled.  For the French, having the national leader take the stage spotlight with his wife on one side and his mistress, and the child of that love tryst, on the other, is perfectly acceptable; nobody bats an eyelash.  Ameericans still have this quaint notion that one should honor one's wife and family  (and if you are going to sleep around, at least do it very discreetly).  Conversely, the Brits had to struggle with the idea of Camilla marrying the next King, but tolerated the parasitic Press hounding Harry and his truly charming bride right out of the Monarchy and even the Country.  And the Americans are appalled by that. 

So don't think that you don't have these culture clashes; you do.  Ameericans will find their own way.  Is Mr. Trump a boor,  does he tweet silly things, does he mingle his Office with private gain?  Sure he does and is.  At this point, Americans deeply distruct the political elites, so they will continue with Mr. Trump.  On balance, for America, he probably is doing more good than harm.  One thing for sure: with the Deemocrats in charge, it would not be "more good than harm," it would be "all harm, all the time."    the Deplorables recognize that, so they vote Trump.   (And good for them).

Just for the record, I am not a Trump supporter.   I call it like I see it, and I say, "What have the Democrats got to offer?"  Answer:  nothing, except more of those limousines with police escorts and sirens screaming, with some insolent Democrat sitting inside, thinking he/she is supremely important, and the unwashed need to obsequeously get out of the way.  

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So, don’t deal with us and tell YOUR leaders not to follow Trump! If you disagree with the decision to defund the WHO, feel free to contribute the missing funding. Heck, for that matter, take over the US contribution for the entire UN mission!

You may laugh at us, but that goes both ways, believe me.

The international community seems to want the US to isolate itself, up to the point where the US ceases to fund initiatives that benefit others, while they laugh!

I am guessing that those freeloading days are over...hopefully!

Trump is a shoo-in for another term, may as well get used to it...

Liam offered background and context and this is how you respond. 

I don't see any Europeans getting aggressive when you and @Tom Kirkman and others unfactually attack EU... 

I am starting to remember why I retreated from this forum.  

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

6 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Liam offered background and context and this is how you respond. 

I don't see any Europeans getting aggressive when you and @Tom Kirkman and others unfactually attack EU... 

I am starting to remember why I retreated from this forum.  

Look up at my earlier comment in this thread.  The one with the picture of my feet at a campfire by a river.  I already tried to defuse this thread with a bit of gentle humor.

< shrug shoulders >

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I have a question for many of the non-American, non-Chinese members on this forum:

Why do you focus so much attention on President Trump and American politics?

Obviously, due to the ongoing trade war and the COVID-19 pandemic, there will be a significant amount of discourse between the American and Chinese members,?This is to be expected as these issues have a direct impact on both ‘camps’.

What I find interesting is the unnatural interest in American politics and the legal system from the European or British contingent. Do you not have similar issues in your own countries to discuss? Are your governments working seamlessly to address them? Are your politicians all blameless concerning recent events?

You don’t have any ‘skin’ in the American game, so why the interest and comments?

One individual told me that due to the fact that anything that America does, affects the entire international community. This may be so, but this line of reasoning could also be applied to each European country, Great Britain, and the European Union.

I am curious as to why you are so interested in, and comment on, American politics but rarely post anything concerning your own.

US and Canadian economies are intertwined; I have financial interest in knowing what mistakes are currently happening. I have more "skin in the game" than some broke moron with a vote in states.

 

Plus it is entertaining.  Ever "rubberneck" at a bad car crash?  It is horrible but entertaining at the same time. Foreign bodybuilders who can barely speak can become governor.  Reality TV host becomes POTUS.  Fake wrestling 'athletes" stand a reasonable chance of getting elected...

WWE is not an education - nor is trump university... but who cares except the courts and those defrauded.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

What I find fascinating is that the Democrats, the other Party in the US Duopoly political system, cannot see it.  Amazing stuff.  They actually think they can recycle this Biden guy and prevail over the Trump Political Machine.  A complete delusion. 

I don't think the Dems really think any of their candidates can beat Trump.  And I don't think they truly want to.  Hang on.  I think they actually know that no-one in their party can beat Trump, so throw up a candidate and let it pass.  They are using this time to try every crazy idea they have ever had and see what gets through.  I mean seriously, they make so much noise about Trump that that is the story, all the while they are trying to push through moon-shot dreams/ideas.  Why not?  If they make enough of the story about Trump every day, no one will remember their shenanigans when 2024 rolls around.  At least that is what I think they might be scheming, anyway.

Anyone else have a theory on this?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

48 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Liam offered background and context and this is how you respond. 

I don't see any Europeans getting aggressive when you and @Tom Kirkman and others unfactually attack EU... 

I am starting to remember why I retreated from this forum.  

Glad that I could jog your memory.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

41 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

US and Canadian economies are intertwined; I have financial interest in knowing what mistakes are currently happening. I have more "skin in the game" than some broke moron with a vote in states.

 

Plus it is entertaining.  Ever "rubberneck" at a bad car crash?  It is horrible but entertaining at the same time. Foreign bodybuilders who can barely speak can become governor.  Reality TV host becomes POTUS.  Fake wrestling 'athletes" stand a reasonable chance of getting elected...

WWE is not an education - nor is trump university... but who cares except the courts and those defrauded.

And you have Trudeau. How’s he working out for you?

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

3 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

I don't think the Dems really think any of their candidates can beat Trump.  And I don't think they truly want to. 

Sure they do.  The Dems are totally, utterly obsessed with defeating and destroying Mr. Trump.

A very big part of the reason is their ideas of droit du roi, that they have a right bestowed by God to govern the country.  And that is because in their view Dems are morally and culturally superior people, of a superior race, and everyone else is a "deplorable." 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

5 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Glad that I could jog your memory.

I was going to say something like "I'm so glad you have remembered.  C'ya!", but you beat me to it, Douglas.  Gol' durnit!

[El Nikko + 2,145]

25 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

I don't think the Dems really think any of their candidates can beat Trump.  And I don't think they truly want to.  Hang on.  I think they actually know that no-one in their party can beat Trump, so throw up a candidate and let it pass.  They are using this time to try every crazy idea they have ever had and see what gets through.  I mean seriously, they make so much noise about Trump that that is the story, all the while they are trying to push through moon-shot dreams/ideas.  Why not?  If they make enough of the story about Trump every day, no one will remember their shenanigans when 2024 rolls around.  At least that is what I think they might be scheming, anyway.

Anyone else have a theory on this?

That is exactly what I thought about the Labour party being run by Gordon Brown, he was never going to get elected and it meant they could sit back and let the Conservatives deal with the economic fallout of the 2008/2009 crash while sniping from the sidelines.

I think Corbyn was the same, he's like Bernie, a unashamed Marxist and no one with any common sense (and a job) would want to vote for someone like that.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

40 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

And you have Trudeau. How’s he working out for you?

great

[UNC12345 + 171]

Liam, excellent post, very thoughtful and insightful.  Douglas has responded multiple times like I knew he would, aggressively, like you've attacked him personally.  The question was asked...you have answered honestly.  I think you're getting a fight because you've hit on some truths.

For my part, I read the site because I'm an investor in oil stocks, interested in the macro environment I originally thought.  I try to get what I can from the articles.  This virus has led to more work from home, on the computer, and now I find myself reading these threads more in depth. I would really like this to stop!  I read a tweet recently that I thought was funny.  "As an adult, I can eat whatever I want, whenever I want.  And I wish someone would take this power away from me!".

With regard to interest in the US (I'm Canadian), it is FAR more interesting, in my opinion, to watch your politics, the daily fights in the media, the Trump circus-like press briefings, the two extremes, FOX and CNN, the constant over-analysis of each and every issue.  I have travelled extensively all over the US and count many Americans as close friends who I talk to regularly.  Every single thing you take on, it must be done to the MAX, to the extreme!  This is admirable in so many ways and why you're so interesting.  It's why we hear all this stuff on here about the MSM, everything is a grand conspiracy, the news networks are so far to each side, the parties cannot stop attacking each other and politicizing each and every issue.  Yes, here too, the opposition will disagree and point out flaws, but we aren't seeing a barrage of anti-government complaints.  We are in a time of crisis - help each other!

Further evidence of these points lies in professional sports.  Ever hear the term "World Series"?  Who came up with this?  It's a North American League for goodness sakes.  The team that wins IS probably the best in the world, but it doesn't play the rest of the world.  Same with football.  Why call yourself World Champions?  I find it incredible to listen to Trump use the term "greatest in the world" and how often he uses this term or "greatest in the history of the world".  I'm not saying some things aren't true, just that it doesn't constantly need to be stated like that.  It's obnoxious.  Everything must be ranked and brought to an extreme.  Ever read a recruiting report?  X player is the 137th ranked DE in the country.  What?  There is a constant obsession with ranking EVERYTHING!  I went to a college campus once and the cafeteria was the 17th ranked one in the US.  How is this important?  It doesn't mean anything.  I'm not saying some of that doesn't go on here, but you take it the furthest.

Honestly, our politics here are boring.  I cannot even take watching our PM speak as he ignores an industry that employs half a million and represents a major part of our economy.  I can't believe he got back in, even with a minority government.  It is bordering on criminal what he has done to the good people out West.

With regard specifically to Trump, it is indeed like a car wreck.  I just can't look away.  His tweeting and fighting with others, saying the most embarrassing things the whole country can read, going out of his way to pick fights with people, changing course on important things the next day, running a propaganda slide show during a press briefing, his utter disdain for any press question that he doesn't like, his lying about things that are on video (the flu?).  He's just...fascinating to be honest, and not really in a good way.  You cannot argue with his political "genius", for lack of a better term.  I firmly believe, and am concerned by the fact that he WILL get another term.  So it's true, he doesn't act like an insider, but does this make him Presidential?  No, just extremely divisive in a time when we need the opposite.  And no, this wasn't his fault nor was it done TO him by the democrats.

Alright Douglas, Dan..have at me.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

13 minutes ago, UNC12345 said:

With regard specifically to Trump, it is indeed like a car wreck.  I just can't look away.

Relax, UNC, a lot of that stuff is just for show.  The USA survived Richard Nixon, it will survive Donald Trump just fine.  

I remind you of a major difference between America and Canada.  America is a dynamic, clever society.  It does well, not because of Washington, but in spite of it.  Canada, meanwhile, is an ossified, stultified society, where everyone wants to have a government job and own real estate.  there is little "ambition" to do something new and powerful and creative.  It does not survive, or thrive, due to the energy of the people; it survives only due to the heavy hand of Government, which funds itself by taxing away the earned incomes of the People. 

How things look depends on where you sit. 

[UNC12345 + 171]

I'm relaxed, don't worry. 

I've done some generalizing obviously, but tried not to be insulting.  I have tried to stray from categorizing the entire population in one way or another, just commented on some interesting observations (ranking, extremes, etc.) and specifically on Trump.  Your choice of terminology and extremely broad generalizations about the entire society lacking energy and ambition is definitely insulting and pretty unfair really, but you are obviously entitled to your views, extreme as they might be.

You are correct that it does depend on where you sit.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

6 minutes ago, UNC12345 said:

Your choice of terminology and extremely broad generalizations about the entire society lacking energy and ambition is definitely insulting and pretty unfair really, but you are obviously entitled to your views, extreme as they might be.

I spent 18 years in Canada building new manufacturing plants and providing hundreds of new, good-paying jobs, and built up millions of dollars of export earnings for the country.  The thanks I got was the overbearing and abusive hand of Government and the attitude generally that I was some form of "capitalist oppressor."   No thanks for the new products I developed, the intellectual property I developed, or the industry I developed.  My experience in Canada has left a rather bad taste in the mouth, so to speak. 

You folks have lousy governments, Federal and Provincial.  Nature of your country. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

17 minutes ago, UNC12345 said:

Your choice of terminology and extremely broad generalizations about the entire society lacking energy and ambition is definitely insulting and pretty unfair really, but you are obviously entitled to your views, extreme as they might be.

Today I learned that @Jan van Eck is an extremist.  Pretty sure I woke up this morning in Bizarro World.

[UNC12345 + 171]

This is interesting to some extent.  I never called him an "extremist" (which carries a different meaning I think) but to say that an entire country is uninspired and lacks ambition?  That's a stretch my good man and yeah, to me that's an extreme view. 

I hope you can see the pattern that I've mentioned here....

I make some observations about the US and why it's interesting.....my entire country is "ossified" or "stultified".

I say that those views seem extreme.....you put forth I've called him an extremist and we live in bizarro world.

You guys are doing a great job of illustrating the points I've made.