Hot mic at White House Covid press briefing. "Everybody here's been vaccinated anyway."

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

19 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Obviously the answer involves injecting bleach and shoving UV lamps into all your orifices.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-suggests-injection-disinfectant-beat-coronavirus-clean-lungs-n1191216

Cause the media told me that Trump told me I had to do it

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

14 hours ago, 0R0 said:

The big mystery is why FL didn't have more of a breakout than it did. Could be that it was all in the spring breaker population that just left at shutdown, not passing it on to locals and their families. 

We know that ultra violet light and heat plus humidity makes the virus "non viable" because of course a virus isn't alive per se, but more of a zombie imitation of living organisms. 

Interestingly in Taiwan and Singapore, where the Chinese are loathe to get a tan, they're missing out on the curative effect of sunlight and heat. Going from an AC house to AC transit then AC job isn't hurting the coronavirus. 

[Ernst Reim + 33]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

We know that ultra violet light and heat plus humidity makes the virus "non viable" because of course a virus isn't alive per se, but more of a zombie imitation of living organisms. 

Interestingly in Taiwan and Singapore, where the Chinese are loathe to get a tan, they're missing out on the curative effect of sunlight and heat. Going from an AC house to AC transit then AC job isn't hurting the coronavirus. 

The main factor of transmission are droplets from an infected lung, air-borne by coughing or breathing, into your lung. Sunlight does not help against that. Humidity does not help against that.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Ernst Reim

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Ernst Reim said:

The main factor of transmission are droplets from an infected lung, air-borne by coughing or breathing, into your lung. Sunlight does not help against that. Humidity does not help against that.

For all we know, the main factor of transmission is door knobs, turnstiles and garbage can lids. The Diamond Princess was still Contaminated after 2 weeks. That's with zero "coughing", the people were all gone. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Ward Smith
Inserted link

[Ernst Reim + 33]

No, not for "all we know". We know quite a bit on how these viruses are transmitted and there is not much dissent I am aware of in the expert community.

While it cannot be excluded that you touch a virus-contaminated surface, afterwards your face and then breath it in, nobody considers this the main infection way. (With nobody I mean people who know what they are talking about. If I am googling it, I am sure I find somebody who claims so.) Hand-washing etc. is encouraged, just for safety's sake, but you need to get it into your lung and the main way is and remains breathing in air which other people breathed out. But nothing would explain the Diamond Princess "infecting people two weeks after they had cleaned it". Where did you get that info?

UV sterilization has been of course known for a **very** long time. You normally need pretty high doses to sterilize something reliably. Exposing your skin to UV hard enough to sterilize it, increases your skin cancer risk unacceptably. Introducing UV-light sufficient enough to kill off the virus inside you body is blatant nonsense. Even if it would be technical possible, it would mean you can just stay in your hospital bed and switch to chemotherapy.

You are, of course, better off socializing outside than inside since distances are typically greater outside and you have more air-movement. But that is unrelated to sunlight.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

5 hours ago, Ernst Reim said:

No, not for "all we know". We know quite a bit on how these viruses are transmitted and there is not much dissent I am aware of in the expert community.

While it cannot be excluded that you touch a virus-contaminated surface, afterwards your face and then breath it in, nobody considers this the main infection way. (With nobody I mean people who know what they are talking about. If I am googling it, I am sure I find somebody who claims so.) Hand-washing etc. is encouraged, just for safety's sake, but you need to get it into your lung and the main way is and remains breathing in air which other people breathed out. But nothing would explain the Diamond Princess "infecting people two weeks after they had cleaned it". Where did you get that info?

UV sterilization has been of course known for a **very** long time. You normally need pretty high doses to sterilize something reliably. Exposing your skin to UV hard enough to sterilize it, increases your skin cancer risk unacceptably. Introducing UV-light sufficient enough to kill off the virus inside you body is blatant nonsense. Even if it would be technical possible, it would mean you can just stay in your hospital bed and switch to chemotherapy.

You are, of course, better off socializing outside than inside since distances are typically greater outside and you have more air-movement. But that is unrelated to sunlight.

We "know" More than you think about fomite spread. 

You're reasonably smart, so which is more likely? That a person manages to get under the spray of a contagious cough (which simple reason tells you will settle out of the air in minutes) or touching a stainless steel object such as every stupid surface in a subway car except the vinyl seats up to several days later, while it is still viable? That cough is certain to settle on those surfaces, leaving a big viral load. 

Good luck washing your hands in the subway, which in their infinite wisdom in NYC are more crowded, since they reduced the number of cars by 90% in response to the "crisis". Good luck never touching your nose when it itches, or your eyes. Video monitoring shows the average person touches their face an average of once every 9 seconds. But yeah, aerosol contagion. 

Purposeful obtuseness aside, the best place to kill aerosol viri is while they're airborne, with UV. But yeah, pretend I meant skin, which I never said. 

Edited April 25, 2020 by Ward Smith
Auto-correct fail

[Ernst Reim + 33]

18 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Purposeful obtuseness aside,

No flaming please.

While smear infections are of course possible (I did not dispute this), every single expert site I looked at considered droplet transmission as the main transmission.

"the best place to kill aerosol viri is while they're airborne, with UV." If you meant air, not skin this would work even less. If you want to efficiently sterilize air you need UV doses which are just plain incompatible with humans being present under this irradiation. There are indeed UV scrubbers for air. But these are installed inside AC units where they hit the air passing through with high UV doses. Nobody would propose to do this to a room with people in it.

PS: Not to be annoying and this has really nothing to do with the content of your post: the plural of virus is either viruses (English rules) or vira (Latin rules).

Edited April 25, 2020 by Ernst Reim

[RichieRich216 + 454]

STAGED.......

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Ernst Reim said:

No flaming please.

While smear infections are of course possible (I did not dispute this), every single expert site I looked at considered droplet transmission as the main transmission.

"the best place to kill aerosol viri is while they're airborne, with UV." If you meant air, not skin this would work even less. If you want to efficiently sterilize air you need UV doses which are just plain incompatible with humans being present under this irradiation. There are indeed UV scrubbers for air. But these are installed inside AC units where they hit the air passing through with high UV doses. Nobody would propose to do this to a room with people in it.

PS: Not to be annoying and this has really nothing to do with the content of your post: the plural of virus is either viruses (English rules) or vira (Latin rules).

Dude, don't get your panties in a bind. YOU were the one making snide remarks about UV light and skin and yes, purposely chose a nonsensical interpretation. If you live in a glass house don't throw stones. Oh by the way DHS scientists backed me up. Who is backing you up? 

Given the report I linked to, we're talking about DRASTICALLY reducing the viral count. You on the other hand are pretending we're required to efficiently sterilize the entire atmosphere? Must "kill" every non living virus? Really? How about just reducing the viral count? Herd immunity and all that. 1000 viruses enter your body, you'll likely fight them off no problem and develop immunity. 1 million of them? Maybe your system is overwhelmed. Viral load and all that. 

BTW the proper LATIN declension is indeed viri (us i o um o, i orum is os is). However upon further inspection virus, although it sounds Latin is not. Simple investigation showed the plural is the unsexy viruses. 

[Ernst Reim + 33]

Calm down: you never said anything about air or skin. You said "ultra violet light and heat plus humidity makes the virus "non viable"". I assumed that you meant sterilizing hands by bathing them in UV, since this is at least theoretically possible, but not recommended due to the UV load. It did not think that you meant sterilizing air, because this is way more difficult. AFAIK, nobody seriously ever proposed to use high-dose UV light to reduce the virus load in air. Could you link the DHS report you are referring to? On re-reading my comments, I do not see where I was "snide". Other than calling the "inside the body UV application" nonsense. But that was a side remark, not a snide remark. My apologies, if you misunderstood this.

With regard to your other links: I have missed the one on the Diamond princess in your post and have read it now. They found virus DNA and RNA on the surfaces, not live virus! That is completely expected: when the virus "dies", the fragments of course stay behind. It proves that there once has been a virus load on the surfaces, but not that it was infectious after 2 weeks.

Regarding the study you linked about the survival of live virus on surfaces, I knew that one already. It has been criticized that the viral load they used was way higher than you would normally find in airborne droplets, but I admit that I am not in a position to judge how valid that criticism is. But even ignoring this, the study reported a drop in viral load by a factor of 1000 in 72 hours. They still found live virus, but 1000x less, even on those surfaces which kept them "alive" longest. As I said, I do not doubt that you can get infected via surfaces, but all I see from the experts is that they consider this not to be the main infection pathway.

Regarding grammar: virus is Latin for "poison". It is neuter, not masculine in gender, despite the -us ending. The correct Latin plural would thus be vira. But this would be a misuse, since in Latin "virus" actually does not have a plural form. I apologize if the grammatical remark seemed snide. That was not my intention. I just noticed recently that several people use "viri" because the think "viruses" is the wrong plural for a Latin word.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

20 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

We "know" More than you think about fomite spread. 

You're reasonably smart, so which is more likely? That a person manages to get under the spray of a contagious cough (which simple reason tells you will settle out of the air in minutes) or touching a stainless steel object such as every stupid surface in a subway car except the vinyl seats up to several days later, while it is still viable? That cough is certain to settle on those surfaces, leaving a big viral load. 

Good luck washing your hands in the subway, which in their infinite wisdom in NYC are more crowded, since they reduced the number of cars by 90% in response to the "crisis". Good luck never touching your nose when it itches, or your eyes. Video monitoring shows the average person touches their face an average of once every 9 seconds. But yeah, aerosol contagion. 

Purposeful obtuseness aside, the best place to kill aerosol viri is while they're airborne, with UV. But yeah, pretend I meant skin, which I never said. 

Why argue about it? Go after both the aerosol pathway AND the fomite pathway, in tandem, using common sense. This is not a pissing contest!

[Ernst Reim + 33]

Given the recent reports which seem to stress more and more the number of asymptotic carriers, we might see obligatory face mask use, at least in areas like subways, supermarkets, etc. At leaset, once we get the supply sorted out. Yup, surgical masks might be crap to protect myself from breathing anything in, but why should I care if anybody else's mask keeps their viruses out of the air. And this would shut down on the fomite pathway at the same time.

[Ron Ron + 18]

On 4/22/2020 at 1:19 PM, TooSteep said:

Gerry: Do you believe that everyone who is going to die from COVID-19, will die from it at some point over the next 18 months, regardless of lockdown measures? Put another way, is the lockdown just delaying the inevitable? Or is the lockdown going to actually prevent total COVID-19 deaths over time, even with an R0 of 5.7 and immunity starting from 0?

 

 

The goal in the in the initial stage of a novel viral outbreaks is to flatten the curve in an effort to prevent the healthcare system from being overwhelmed. Even if the fatality rate is 0.01 if your hospitals are overwhelmed the rate increases due to the lack of care. Look at the fatality rate in Washington state where instituted social distancing early versus New Orleans, Northern Italy, Spain or New York. When hospitals are overwhelmed the medical staff act as death panels determine who will and will not get treatment. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron said:

Look at the fatality rate in Washington state

Yes look at my state's fatality rate. Take out the abysmal showing from old folks homes and the numbers are actually pretty good. The problem as it shows was the super spreaders which included rest home employees who worked at multiple senior living locations. They carried the disease to the most vulnerable populations and killed quite a few of them. 

Given that the First confirmed case in the US landed here from Wuhan it truly buries the lie the Chinese @frankfurtertried to promulgate that this was a US bug spread by US soldiers in Wuhan. The contagion follows a predictable path, and if the CDC weren't such a$$holes it could have been nipped in the bud here. IF US soldiers were carrying, and returned home we'd have millions more infected. And finally, only a moron would believe the numbers China has been publishing. Their  infections and deaths are at least an order of magnitude higher than they've admitted.

Like North Korea, they'd rather put the body on ice than admit it's dead. RIP "dear leader".

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, Ernst Reim said:

Regarding grammar: virus is Latin for "poison". It is neuter, not masculine in gender, despite the -us ending. The correct Latin plural would thus be vira. But this would be a misuse, since in Latin "virus" actually does not have a plural form. I apologize if the grammatical remark seemed snide. That was not my intention. I just noticed recently that several people use "viri" because the think "viruses" is the wrong plural for a Latin word.

Maurus Servius Honoratus in Commentary on the Aeneid of Vergil: "Sane virus hodie tres tantum habet casus-hoc virus, hoc virus, o virus" ("Indeed virus today has only three cases: nominative singular virus, accusative singular virus, vocative singular virus. The ancients used to say genitive viri").
 

Nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, ablative, vocative 

I had 4 years of Latin over 40 years ago. I still remember more than most but can't claim expertise I once had. Indeed virus was "borrowed" from the Greek and never properly fit into Latin etymology. Viri means men, which I remembered later. Those brain cells have been on hiatus a long time. Quick, what is the plural of hiatus? 

By the way, there's a very good reason we have the saying, "Sunshine is the best disinfectant". Regardless of your political affiliation. It. Just. Works. 

Sunlight kills coronavirus.

The idiots in the MSM will find fault with this no doubt and nitpick the results. But medicine has known about the effects for at least one hundred years, so not much to dispute except for obstinance. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Ward Smith
Added link

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

6 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Like North Korea, they'd rather put the body on ice than admit it's dead. RIP "dear leader".

[Ernst Reim + 33]

15 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Regardless of your political affiliation. It. Just. Works. 

Sunlight kills coronavirus.

Of course it "works". I did not say that sunlight (or UV) does not kill the virus. I said that it is useless as a protective or curative measure. Your link states that sunlight reduces the half-life of the virus to 2 minutes. Great. That means that we do not have to worry much about catching the virus from surfaces like park benches, pick-nick tables etc. Which is undoubtedly good news. However, sunlight does not do anything against droplet infection which (as far as I read the experts' opinions) is the main transmission pathway. You are breathing in several times per minute and droplets do not stay in the air for long, as you said yourself. Whether the air you breathe in is bathed in sunlight or not has a negligible effect on the virus load you are getting.

If you are committed to the theory that we mainly get infected via fomite transmission, than yes: you have less chances to get infected outside. But even if we believe in mainly fomite transmission... how does this help us control the spread? We can of course UV-clean surfaces, but it would be easier, more efficient and more reliable to spray them with a disinfectant. And we cannot install UV lamps in public places. Even ignoring the costs and the practical problems... no public body could actually do it. UV light is known to increase the risk for skin cancer and there is no "no effect level". Every dose you get increases your risk by a tiny amount. Imagine somebody a year later developing skin cancer and suing the city for exposing him against his will and without alternative options to UV light in the subway?

And please do not forget that you started the topic with "the Chinese [...] are missing out on the curative effect of sunlight and heat". This is still wrong, in my opinion. Regardless of the effects of sunlight or heat on viruses on surfaces, they do nothing against the virus inside your body and cannot cure you.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, Ernst Reim said:

Of course it "works". I did not say that sunlight (or UV) does not kill the virus. I said that it is useless as a protective or curative measure. Your link states that sunlight reduces the half-life of the virus to 2 minutes. Great. That means that we do not have to worry much about catching the virus from surfaces like park benches, pick-nick tables etc. Which is undoubtedly good news. However, sunlight does not do anything against droplet infection which (as far as I read the experts' opinions) is the main transmission pathway. You are breathing in several times per minute and droplets do not stay in the air for long, as you said yourself. Whether the air you breathe in is bathed in sunlight or not has a negligible effect on the virus load you are getting.

If you are committed to the theory that we mainly get infected via fomite transmission, than yes: you have less chances to get infected outside. But even if we believe in mainly fomite transmission... how does this help us control the spread? We can of course UV-clean surfaces, but it would be easier, more efficient and more reliable to spray them with a disinfectant. And we cannot install UV lamps in public places. Even ignoring the costs and the practical problems... no public body could actually do it. UV light is known to increase the risk for skin cancer and there is no "no effect level". Every dose you get increases your risk by a tiny amount. Imagine somebody a year later developing skin cancer and suing the city for exposing him against his will and without alternative options to UV light in the subway?

And please do not forget that you started the topic with "the Chinese [...] are missing out on the curative effect of sunlight and heat". This is still wrong, in my opinion. Regardless of the effects of sunlight or heat on viruses on surfaces, they do nothing against the virus inside your body and cannot cure you.

Please don't try to put words in my keypad that I never wrote. 

To try to put a charitable spin on your approach, where I talk about being exposed to the virus for the very first time you choose to believe I'm talking about people who are already infected! Just look at the quote above and don't try to dissemble out of it. I never said that, tried to correct you multiple times and yet you persist. Understand my frustration? 

To repeat, I am not talking about already infected people and never was!

Sunlight is a disinfectant. Only a moron (or Enthalpic) believes you're supposed to put a disinfectant in your skin. That really wasn't what Trump said, that was what the media told you Trump said. A disinfectant is what? A prophylactic against contracting a disease. 

The highest rates of infection in NYC are coming from people who are forced to ride the fewer cars the brilliant mayor decided toemploy , rather than allowing for anything remotely close to social distancing. Those cars are filthy and that's before all this. There's maybe a 3% chance you're sitting next to an actively infected person and a 100% chance you're going to come into contact with an infected surface. If they were concerned about public safety, they could irradiate the empty cars with high intensity UV for 10 minutes minimum. But they're not concerned, and let's face it, they never were. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

19 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

By the way, there's a very good reason we have the saying, "Sunshine is the best disinfectant". Regardless of your political affiliation. It. Just. Works.

I'm sure you know sunlight has numerous other beneficial effects other than a disinfectant.

-Improves mood, (Seasonal Affective Disorder).

-It drives away vermin (rats, roaches, bedbugs, etc.)

-Vitamin D

-Having a tan makes you look better.

 

I suspect longer sunny days will help sanitize surfaces, but increased summer social interaction will more than balance that out.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

23 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Dude, don't get your panties in a bind.

I think mine have been in a bind since around age 32, which was probably the last time a woman shamelessly proposed, no "demanded," sex from me.   It's been all downhill since then.  Oh, well. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

22 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

 If they were concerned about public safety, they could irradiate the empty cars with high intensity UV for 10 minutes minimum. But they're not concerned, and let's face it, they never were. 

The UVC lamp I have will make a room reek of ozone within 10 minutes. It's not even UV sterilization at that point.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

21 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

The highest rates of infection in NYC are coming from people who are forced to ride the fewer cars the brilliant mayor decided toemploy , rather than allowing for anything remotely close to social distancing. Those cars are filthy and that's before all this. There's maybe a 3% chance you're sitting next to an actively infected person and a 100% chance you're going to come into contact with an infected surface. If they were concerned about public safety, they could irradiate the empty cars with high intensity UV for 10 minutes minimum. But they're not concerned, and let's face it, they never were. 

You nailed it, Ward. 

Moving over to the issue of surfaces,  I would respond that the plastics, such as vinyl seat coverings and so forth, will retain the viral matter as active longer than on the steel.  It is not clear why this is.  That said, not using steel plated with copper is foolish, as copper has its own inhibiting properties against colonization, and has the ability to stop propagation.  There is a mentality against using anything new in public-transit construction, and a strong prejudice in favor of stainless steel.  For example, [USA] Amtrak, the public passenger rail company, will flatly refuse to purchase or lease any railcar equipment that is not constructed out of stainless. This is not logical, as stainless is an expensive material, and is harder to weld and fabricate than either mild steel or Corten.  So you have to ascribe it to some form of lingering prejudice in favor of Stainless, that goes back for at least a generation of rail managers. 

Can railcars be disinfected between runs?  Probably not.  The riding public takes its chances.  And those odds are dismal enough. As Ward points out, they are likely 100% as to contact. Ugh. 

[Ernst Reim + 33]

Ward: It is really annoying if you get aggressive when I try to give you the benefit of the doubt and try to discuss opinions instead of just shooting down statements with one-liners. But if you really want me to stick with exactly what you said instead of trying to reply to your probable arguments behind it, here we go. All italics are direct quotes from you :

Friday at 03:46 PM : " they're missing out on the curative effect of sunlight and heat. "

    Sunlight does not have a curative effect (against COVID). It does not heal infected people. That is what curative means.

Friday at 07:42 PM : " The Diamond Princess was still Contaminated after 2 weeks."

   No, it was not. DNA (fragments) was found in uncleaned cabins, not live virus.

Sunday at 01:31 AM "By the way, there's a very good reason we have the saying, "Sunshine is the best disinfectant". Regardless of your political affiliation. It. Just. Works."

    The report you linked gave a 50% reduction after 2 min of sunlight. I would be surprised as hell if any decent chemical disinfectant does not work better than a 50% reduction in 2 min. Sunlight is a disinfectant, but not a very good one compared to the alternatives.

Sunday at 08:35 PM "If they were concerned about public safety, they could irradiate the empty cars with high intensity UV for 10 minutes minimum."

     Nobody who would be really concerned would do this with UV. It's a crappy disinfectant for this use and a quality control nightmare. You have to make sure that every spot (undersides of seats, all sides of handles) is irradiated for a certain minimum amount of time. It would take forever and is unreliable. If you want to disinfect a car, you would spray it with a chemical disinfectant. Aerosol distribution also reaches surfaces you do not spray directly and it continues being active after you sprayed it. The only place where UV sterilization makes sense, AFAIK, is either for food (because once you switch it off, there is nothing left) or as air-scrubber in AC units (for the same reasons). There it  is used in extremely high doses, incompatible with the presence of humans. And it's air, so you do not have to worry about having shadow spots.) 

Sunday at 08:35 PM  "Only a moron (or Enthalpic) believes you're supposed to put a disinfectant in your skin.  That really wasn't what Trump said, that was what the media told you Trump said. "

   I am not really interested discussing Trump, but since we list here where I disagree with what you said: The following is a transcript of his comments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtgVxGkrX1Yhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtgVxGkrX1Y), look at the 2 min mark: "So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful, light. And I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but I think you’re going to test it. And then I said: Supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way, and I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting. And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute—one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside? Or almost a cleaning? Because, you see, it gets in the lungs and it does tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that."

This is a very unpleasant way of discussing things, but the above is exactly what you wrote without doing any of the interpretation stuff" your were objecting too.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Ernst Reim

[frankfurter + 562]

On 4/26/2020 at 1:04 PM, Ward Smith said:

Yes look at my state's fatality rate. Take out the abysmal showing from old folks homes and the numbers are actually pretty good. The problem as it shows was the super spreaders which included rest home employees who worked at multiple senior living locations. They carried the disease to the most vulnerable populations and killed quite a few of them. 

Given that the First confirmed case in the US landed here from Wuhan it truly buries the lie the Chinese @frankfurtertried to promulgate that this was a US bug spread by US soldiers in Wuhan. The contagion follows a predictable path, and if the CDC weren't such a$$holes it could have been nipped in the bud here. IF US soldiers were carrying, and returned home we'd have millions more infected. And finally, only a moron would believe the numbers China has been publishing. Their  infections and deaths are at least an order of magnitude higher than they've admitted.

Like North Korea, they'd rather put the body on ice than admit it's dead. RIP "dear leader".

Normally, I ignore people like you. But your hatred is blind and runs deep, and thus is the most dangerous.

Your govt has an agenda you do not see. Your CDC is but a tool, and has deliberately withheld information to mislead citizens.   The fact is, millions are indeed infected.  Your govt simply refuses to test people for antigens: these tests can prove infected people prior to the Wuhan outbreak. The simplest means to debunk the claim about the athletes is to publicly identify them, test them, and release the results. Your govt refuses this.  WHY? The CDC has removed reports about the very large spike in 'flu' cases during Nov 2019, following the return of the military 'athletes'.  Those 'flu' cases resulted in abnormally high deaths.   The question to all this is WHY? 

Add to this picture is the now proven research for the types of covid; A, B, C.  Type A is the origin. B can come from A only: A cannot come from B.  Virtually all covid cases tested so far in the USA are type A.  No type A are found among the ethnic Chinese in China; all ethnics have type B. The only type A cases found in China are white caucasian, American expats, who were residing in Wuhan prior to the outbreak.

These factors, together with many others, indicate the USA is the origin. 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by frankfurter

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 4/24/2020 at 6:17 PM, Ernst Reim said:

The main factor of transmission are droplets from an infected lung, air-borne by coughing or breathing, into your lung. Sunlight does not help against that. Humidity does not help against that.

Wrong on both counts. 

Sunlight does help and so does humidity. Humidity effects are insufficient to bring R0 down close enough to 1 where the propagation is just self sustaining. But R0 correlations do show a decline with higher humidity and temperature. UV kills the virus in the droplets. Exposure just may need to be extended. Will not help if you are face to face with someone. 

Neither of these are  a factor inside your crowded subway cars and school rooms, nor in your open space office where air is not sufficiently filtered and people sit too close together, And it doesn't help at home.