A government-funded analysis found hydroxychloroquine ineffective for COVID-19, increases risk of death

[James Regan + 1,776]

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Great typo  : )

2 thumbs up

😉

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 4/22/2020 at 9:44 AM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

“Specifically, hydroxychloroquine use with or without co-administration of azithromycin did not improve mortality or reduce the need for mechanical ventilation in hospitalized patients,” they wrote. “On the contrary, hydroxychloroquine use alone was associated with an increased risk of mortality compared to standard care alone.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/study-of-hydroxychloroquine-trump-promoted-coronavirus-drug-finds-more-deaths?source=articles&via=rss

Observe the "glorious" leader Donald Trump with a fresh load of lies and evasions on the topic - because that's his method. Brush aside the expert advice, listen to loyalists, yes men and various interest group lobbyist, make random decisions, if they work, paint yourself a savior, if not, blame someone else. 

As long as the cult magic works - clap your hands, yesterday's lies are forgotten, today's lie becomes the tomorrow's truth. 

 

This is again a super stupid intentionally misleading piece of trash "research" where the use of a promising drug was misaligned with the scope of its capacity. The drug cocktail of HCQ azithromycin and zinc lowers the viral counts within 5-10 days. What is the point of publishing statistics of its desperate use on patients near death, days or hours away, who would die before the drug would have its effect?

It is something like remdesivir from Gilead or monoclonal antibodies that have a chance to stop the virus rapidly enough to get patients off a ventilator or severe conditions. And would still require treatment for the Cytokine storm and the hemoglobin  deficiency.  

This is not research, it is propaganda against the cheapest solution to the problem, which makes it the target of political outrage by the medical industry. They want there to be no solution, but a chronic problem inflated out of proportion to its reality, at which they can throw billions of dollars of billings in perpetuity. Same as in every other medical problem. 

The additional political drive to discredit the President is overtaking professional's medical reasoning to deny fact and create a mirage of ilegitimacy, setup irrelevant evaluations destined to failure in order to create a fog of war which would dissuade successful application of this solution that might shed a positive light on Trump.   

They and their supervisors and YOU, Yoshiro  should be ashamed of yourselves. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

8 hours ago, James Regan said:

CNN SHOWING NO RESPECT FOR THE US PRESIDENT- THIS IS TREASON

While watching my favourite show of the the week The situation Room with Herr Wulf Blitzkreig I was flabbergasted after waiting for what seemed an internity for the CV19 brief they aired the presidents team starting with Berk and her "thats a really good question" intro and then on to Steve Munchen etc and when it came time for "The President" to speak CNN cut it off and went to some democrat talking about massage parlours in Georgia, while POTUS was addressing the nation, this happened two days on the trot, then what was broadcasted was the edited version of his parle with reporters.

Is this legal to cut off a head of state or your president in mid address to the nation, what could be more breaking news? Something is wrong in the USA that this kind of thing happens, god forbid you did this in the UK if the Queen was on the box, you would be thrown in the tower.

Last night Trump was smart he started interrupting the journalists from the sidelines with some fairly heated rhetoric, I think the guy who has to hit the Trump disappear button at CNN realised that it was going to get hairy and left him speaking. CNN is tarting to look like North Korean TV, blatant censorship is this not covered in the 1st amendment - Freedom of speech - surely the president out Trumps massage parlours in Georgia?

You guys have some work to do, forget foreign policy best stay at home for a while and sort it out.

I stopped viewing CNN as a source of information over 2 decades ago. It is a narrow political point of view and nothing is allowed through that contradicts it. If no evidence for their preferred narrative is available they will make it up. This spread out to MSNBC and the NBC networks and throughout ABC and CBS, CNBC and Bloomberg have a professional following so can not just bloviate politically motivated garbage as news, as you can get the ticker from anyone and nobody would bother watching. FOX still do actual journalism and when they don't have real content to support their narratives they just don't put it up. 

But to your point of freedom of speech, it is CNN's freedom of speech,  and it is your freedom to get your news elsewhere. 

[Coffeeguyzz + 454]

Quick follow up to Oro's post and a challenge to any and every bright, honest participant on this board ...

Go and download the 27 page pdf "study" emanating from the VA patients.

Go to pages #17 and 19 and SEE for yourselves what the White Wizard is talking about when he claims this 'study' shows "scientific misconduct" (of the most blatant, malicious type).

31.7% of the 'Untreated' group actually received Azithromycin (page 17).

MUCH more tellingly, the 'Treated' group that measured fewer than 800 Lymphocytes per mm was 24.7% wheras the 'Untreated'group had only 13.9% with that low a number.

These guys were near death at the outset.

 

Clearly, taking groups of men with median ages of ~68 years old, diabetic comorbidities ranging from  48% without complications and an additional 31% WITH complications provides a 'fair, balanced, objective' cohort with which to make an 'analysis'. (All data right there in Table #2).

I have emphatically stated my seething contempt towards liars and frauds on a previous thread and will not express those sentiments again (h/t to Mr. Buckland).

If folks are unable to recognize that a ferocious war is being waged wherein information is - for now - the primary weapon, wake up.

Your purposeful engagement will unmask the identities - if not the motives - of entities who mean for you and your families the most egregious harm.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Coffeeguyzz said:

If folks are unable to recognize that a ferocious war is being waged wherein information is - for now - the primary weapon, wake up.

Your purposeful engagement will unmask the identities - if not the motives - of entities who mean for you and your families the most egregious harm.

Detroit News:

Democrats plan to censure lawmaker who credited Trump for COVID-19 recovery

Detroit Democrats plan to vote Saturday to censure and bar any future endorsements of a Democratic lawmaker who credited President Donald Trump with advocating for the drug that she said cured her of COVID-19.

State Rep. Karen Whitsett, D-Detroit, broke protocol by meeting with President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence during an April 14 meeting of COVID-19 survivors, during which she credited hydroxychloroquine for saving her life. 

“Thank you for everything that you have done,” Whitsett told Trump at the meeting. “I did not know that saying thank you had a political line. … I’m telling my story and my truth, and this how I feel and these are my words.”

The meeting and other comments Whitsett made prior to and during the coronavirus pandemic have landed her in hot water with the 13th Congressional District Democratic Party Organization.

The group, as first reported by Gongwer News Service, plans to vote Saturday on a resolution to censure Whitsett, a first-term lawmaker representing the 9th Michigan House District.

The admonition means she will not get the group’s endorsement for this year nor will she be able to engage in the group’s activities for the next two election cycles. 

“At the end of the day, we have political systems,” said Jonathan Kinloch, chairman of the organization. “We have political parties, and political parties exist for a reason."   ...

 

 

[Geoff Guenther + 317]

In other news, the Iranian who drank "Camel's Urine" in front of camera claiming it has healing powers according to Islamic medicine, has been arrested and his "confession tapes" aired on State TV.

This religious medicine thing really needs to stop. There isn't a magic cure. Let the real scientists do non-politicized trials of therapies and vaccines. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

This is again a super stupid intentionally misleading piece of trash "research" where the use of a promising drug was misaligned with the scope of its capacity. The drug cocktail of HCQ azithromycin and zinc lowers the viral counts within 5-10 days. What is the point of publishing statistics of its desperate use on patients near death, days or hours away, who would die before the drug would have its effect?

It is something like remdesivir from Gilead or monoclonal antibodies that have a chance to stop the virus rapidly enough to get patients off a ventilator or severe conditions. And would still require treatment for the Cytokine storm and the hemoglobin  deficiency.  

This is not research, it is propaganda against the cheapest solution to the problem, which makes it the target of political outrage by the medical industry. They want there to be no solution, but a chronic problem inflated out of proportion to its reality, at which they can throw billions of dollars of billings in perpetuity. Same as in every other medical problem. 

The additional political drive to discredit the President is overtaking professional's medical reasoning to deny fact and create a mirage of ilegitimacy, setup irrelevant evaluations destined to failure in order to create a fog of war which would dissuade successful application of this solution that might shed a positive light on Trump.   

They and their supervisors and YOU, Yoshiro  should be ashamed of yourselves. 

Hi @0R0.  Did you see this:

Stock market news live updates: Stocks cut gains after report Gilead's virus treatment disappoints in trial

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

35 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Detroit News:

Democrats plan to censure lawmaker who credited Trump for COVID-19 recovery

Detroit Democrats plan to vote Saturday to censure and bar any future endorsements of a Democratic lawmaker who credited President Donald Trump with advocating for the drug that she said cured her of COVID-19.

State Rep. Karen Whitsett, D-Detroit, broke protocol by meeting with President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence during an April 14 meeting of COVID-19 survivors, during which she credited hydroxychloroquine for saving her life. 

“Thank you for everything that you have done,” Whitsett told Trump at the meeting. “I did not know that saying thank you had a political line. … I’m telling my story and my truth, and this how I feel and these are my words.”

The meeting and other comments Whitsett made prior to and during the coronavirus pandemic have landed her in hot water with the 13th Congressional District Democratic Party Organization.

The group, as first reported by Gongwer News Service, plans to vote Saturday on a resolution to censure Whitsett, a first-term lawmaker representing the 9th Michigan House District.

The admonition means she will not get the group’s endorsement for this year nor will she be able to engage in the group’s activities for the next two election cycles. 

“At the end of the day, we have political systems,” said Jonathan Kinloch, chairman of the organization. “We have political parties, and political parties exist for a reason."   ...

 

 

Another crossover to the Republican Party?  Trump will be happy to have her up the White House again to announce it.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

23 minutes ago, Geoff Guenther said:

In other news, the Iranian who drank "Camel's Urine" in front of camera claiming it has healing powers according to Islamic medicine, has been arrested and his "confession tapes" aired on State TV.

This religious medicine thing really needs to stop. There isn't a magic cure. Let the real scientists do non-politicized trials of therapies and vaccines. 

Damnit Geoff, I had purchased stock from a very reliable looking broker who told me that one was going to be the one.  He even said "God willing and the creek don't rise"!  I guess the creek rose, but I can't find that nice broker anywhere.  I'll keep looking.  Cheers!

[0R0 + 6,251]

4 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Hi @0R0.  Did you see this:

Stock market news live updates: Stocks cut gains after report Gilead's virus treatment disappoints in trial

They started the trial at the tail end of the China outbreak. So they didn't have the trial filled and the patients were disproportionately having long hospitalizations so their problems may not be currently related to their viral load. 

Can't use that trial's results. The current trial, of which the Chicago leg for advanced cases was leaked, is the guideline. Patients are actually having symptoms due to the virus in their system, not necessarily due to cumulative damage from the virus, other ailments and hospitalization and prior treatments. 

It still looks like case fatalities can be reduced substantially via HCQ/Z early on, and remdesivir later on, and monoclonal antibodies when they become available. Another suggested treatment that I am looking for results is whole blood transfusion of recovered patients to attack both on the antibody side and the hemoglobin loss, anemia. 

[Coffeeguyzz + 454]

Following is all direct quote from Dr. Didier Raoult's 1 page response to the outrageous VA "study" ...

 

"Moreover, incomprehensively, the "untreated" group actually received Azithromycin in 30% of the cases without this group being analyzed in any distinct way. Azithromycin is also a proposed treatment for COVID (Gautret, 2020) with in vitro efficacy (Andreani 2020), and to mix it with patients who are supposedly untreated is something that is closer to scientific fraud than reasonable analysis".

" ... closer to scientific fraud ...".

Gotta tell ya, when I see such rampant, blatant lies being spewed non stop across outlets ranging from Lamestream Media to backwater cyber sites such as this ... (won't cuss, as per Mr. B's admonishment) ...

Just realize how the public is being deceived, that's all ... and choose as you so wish to continue to willingly accept these lies ... or not.

[BLA + 1,666]

THE PATIENTS WERE ENTUBULATED (ON VENTILATORS) IN THE ENDSTAGE OF THE VIRUS.  OVER 80% OF COVID PATIENTS THAT ARE PUT ON VENTILATORS PASS AWAY. 

The patients given hydroxychloroquine were to far along in the virus and were given very low dosage..   

The control group was given arythmaizin .  Control groups are supposed to be given a placebo.  This trial was not a clinical trial. 

World renown French virologist Dr. Ranoult wrote an analysis of the shody test.  The Dr. shredded the faulty test.  Dr. Raoult's 1000 patient study had a 91% effecacy. 

Of course the CNN "Hate Trump" crew cheered the  VA report. 

There are several clinical trials that will be completed shortly.  Let's just wait and see. 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by BLA

[Geoff Guenther + 317]

Today: More Trump on his ideas for treatment: “And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in one minute. Is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning … it would be interesting to check that.”

Why would anyone believe this guy and the utter BS he spews? I guess that he's only killing his true believers in this case, at least.  

Edited April 23, 2020 by Geoff Guenther

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

@Tom Kirkman Your POTUS leader is suggesting you inject bleach!  Obviously you agree with that.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-suggests-injection-disinfectant-beat-coronavirus-clean-lungs-n1191216

 

Sometime truth is stranger than fiction!  "supposedly we brought the light inside?"

OMG this is too funny. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Enthalpic

[notsonice + 1,255]

5 hours ago, Geoff Guenther said:

Today: More Trump on his ideas for treatment: “And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in one minute. Is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning … it would be interesting to check that.”

Why would anyone believe this guy and the utter BS he spews? I guess that he's only killing his true believers in this case, at least.  

So is Trump thinking that we should stick a UV light in each lung and sniff clorox at the same time?

[surrept33 + 609]

First inkling of information from the larger NY studies:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-effect-on-seriously-ill-in-new-york-study/

I don't think it's particularly newsworthy that it didn't have much effect on late stage patients - I wonder what definition of "late stage" however.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

I have to tell you, I'm much more worried about what's to come: one of Xi's scientist coming up with a vaccine used only on the Chinese (without their knowing what they were getting), or alternatively, tweeking this virus so it's meaner but looks like just a mutant of the original. 

I have been dismayed listening to "the team" each night. The men who should have been surveillant of this didn't even bother to make sure of our supplies. Yet we're to somehow catapult them to hero status? I would never have thought this possible! Not in America.

We need a true paranoid at the helm. For a crazy job you need a crazy person. Always, in medicine, the best innovator in bad times was a guy about half-crazy. We need at the top a Churchillian figure surrounded by Bletchley Park types. Planning for the worst. Paranoid. Waking up with nightmares and spiders climbing the walls. For two decades we talked about a "dirty bomb," and now that we've finally had one, I haven't even heard the term. I suspect that all these empty suit men and women are so damn afraid of upsetting the world order they won't say sh*t if they have a mouthful. 

My great fear is that we suffered a bioterrorism attack. And that it was a dirty bomb in the form of a diaspora of infected Chinese Wuhanians. I am utterly flabbergasted that someone hasn't confronted Mr. Xi with this in the most implicit terms possible. None of this beating around the bush, but more like, we know you did this, and all moral peoples of the world will surely ostracize you from the community of responsible nations and countries.

We're going to survive this, in some form, though I must say that I am worried that those people who suffered taste and smell issues may have permanent damage. When I was a buck intern, we asked everyone who had Parkinsonism if they had had the 1918 flu. Most had. I hope I'm wrong. But I must say, for years we just let the Chinese have at us: SARS, Avian, Swine, now this. Looks like no one has the balls to just come right out and say you did this and we're coming for your sorry ass! 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Gerry Maddoux
to tone it down

[0R0 + 6,251]

7 hours ago, Geoff Guenther said:

Today: More Trump on his ideas for treatment: “And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in one minute. Is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning … it would be interesting to check that.”

Why would anyone believe this guy and the utter BS he spews? I guess that he's only killing his true believers in this case, at least.  

Actually that is sort of what I do, I use colloidal silver to control a chronic antibiotic resistant infection. It is commonly used as a disinfectant where you can't use alcohol or peroxides (chlorine). As a side effect, it also moved me from 4-6 colds and 2-3 bronchitis or pneumonia per year, to none for 6 years running. 

He is just wishful thinking. Wondering why none of the disinfectants can be used internally. Someone would have to explain to him that one of the reasons they are disinfectants is that they are universal poisons. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, surrept33 said:

First inkling of information from the larger NY studies:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/23/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-effect-on-seriously-ill-in-new-york-study/

I don't think it's particularly newsworthy that it didn't have much effect on late stage patients - I wonder what definition of "late stage" however.

Intubated for a start. 80% mortality.

You normally go by case classification of "serious" or worse.

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

We're going to survive this, in some form, though I must say that I am worried that those people who suffered taste and smell issues may have permanent damage. When I was a buck intern, we asked everyone who had Parkinsonism if they had had the 1918 flu. Most had. I hope I'm wrong. But I must say, for years we just let the Chinese have at us: SARS, Avian, Swine, now this. Looks like no one has the balls to just come right out and say you did this and we're coming for your sorry ass! 

The first thing about coming for someone's ass in a non-romantic context is that you don't tell them. 

It appears that China is losing ground internationally as their shoddy "assistance" and medical products are not balancing against the facts of their prior sociopathic behavior not proper for civilized people. But we knew the CCP was not civilized, it isn't Chinese, it is Communist. It isn't born of 4000 years of culture but had just come out of the Soviet's ass during WWII. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

9 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

@Tom Kirkman Your POTUS leader is suggesting you inject bleach!  Obviously you agree with that.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-suggests-injection-disinfectant-beat-coronavirus-clean-lungs-n1191216

 

Sometime truth is stranger than fiction!  "supposedly we brought the light inside?"

OMG this is too funny. 

@Enthalpic

Perhaps this is what Trump was talking about.  Info for you, from elsewhere:

Quote

 

Methylene Blue is an injectable compound that was once widely used as a disinfectant. Now is used for Cancer Treatments, Malaria and maybe now SARS-CoV-2.

It's what Chloroquine comes from.

A cohort of cancer patients with no reported cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection: the possible preventive role of Methylene Blue

https://riviste.fupress.net/index.php/subs/article/view/888

They already use Methylene Blue and Light to clean up Blood Products.

Methylene blue photochemical treatment as a reliable SARS-CoV-2 plasma virus inactivation method for blood safety and convalescent plasma therapy for the COVID-19 outbreak

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-17718/v1

 

 

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

4 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

@Enthalpic

Perhaps this is what Trump was talking about.  Info for you, from elsewhere:

 

 

That is not what he said, but I love how you people translate moron into reason for him.

 

He was literally discussing surface cleaners "I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in one minute."

 

I still have UVC lamp for sale that will fit inside you.  Orange man loves skin cancer.

 

"Put the light inside you." 

 

Not sure how you guys can spin twist this into reason but try! 

 

Did he mention HCQ at all?  Probably not because well... bleach injection and UV lamp insertion is his new brainwave.

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

The FDA and the CDC is holding back information! Conspiracy!

The Gates foundation is hording tanning beds!  Only the elite left can afford cancer machines!  What are us peasants supposed to do? Use the sun?  That is solar powered, I need my UV light to be made from American fossil fuels dammit!

Edited April 24, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

8 hours ago, 0R0 said:

The first thing about coming for someone's ass in a non-romantic context is that you don't tell them. 

Oh, but I think you do, if you're trying to corral an international consortium to ban trade with China. Colloquially, I don't think we plan on bombing Wuhan, or even Beijing, but they have to be punished. The world is in turmoil, even those places that deny it. They've all been assaulted by China, by Xi, by this virus. Whether or not it was genetically modified is almost beside the point. 

With each passing day, Wuhan, and China, and Xi whitewash their complicity. Wuhan went from being the international supplier of fentanyl and methamphetamine congeners to the international supplier of a killer virus . . . yet there is almost no international outrage. Why not? That sort of thing has to originate somewhere, become disseminated through repeated mentioning, and it stands to reason that the nation with the most deaths, the traditional watchdog for the world, perform that task. 

I'm saying that China, once again, could get away with its evil spawning ground. Every day that lapses is a good day for Mr. Xi. And that's bad for the rest of the world.

[Hotone + 412]

Here is a copy of the Brazilian study.  The preliminary findings of this study suggest that the higher CQ dosage should not be recommended for critically ill patients with COVID-19 because of its potential safety hazards, especially when taken concurrently with azithromycin and oseltamivir. These findings cannot be extrapolated to patients with nonsevere COVID-19.

borba_2020_oi_200372.pdf