Is it sustainable for the United States to choose which mobile phones all humans can and cannot use ?

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Not going to happen.

P.S.  For those who insist on saying that "China Virus" or "Wuhan Virus" is racist, perhaps this will mollify you:

 

Various forms of political debate (the first one surprisingly produced a Premier for Life):

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Trying to get back to the OP topic. 

Several interesting threads to pull on. Several have talked about cesium. No one explained Why cesium is important, so I shall. Turns out, to make a robust cellular network and utilize the patented Qualcomm time division multiplexing protocols, it is mandatory to have an extremely accurate clock, and something called NTP (network time protocol). There is no more accurate clock than a cesium decay oscillation, in fact the official second is defined using cesium. 9,192,631,770 cycles of the radiation produced by the transition between two levels of the cesium 133 atom. That's good to about one second deviation over a billion years or so. 

Microsemi who own the company that bought my company are the world leaders in atomic clocks, providing 90% of them to the industry. However, they use a miniscule amount of cesium, and actually embed it on a chip. A kilogram of cesium might supply them for many decades. I rather suspect they already own it. 

Marcin who plays the alter ego of frankfurter on this site and has the juicy devil's advocate role all actors crave wants us all to genuflect to Huwai as if they are some leviathan. They aren't, and take away suspect Chinese sales of their equipment, they're not number one or two. They are also in flagrant violation of multiple patents belonging to multiple companies. Everyone in the industry knows this, but a sale is a sale, until it isn't. Qualcomm said enough is enough and sued one of their biggest customers, Apple. Qualcomm won and Apple spent far more than the judgement and will continue to spend until those particular patents expire. But of course they were pissed, if Steve Jobs taught them anything, it's that stealing is free. Turns out it isn't, and to teach Qualcomm a lesson, they spent a billion on Intel's cell phone division. Unfortunately for them, now their competition won't buy those chips so they overpaid by about 5x. But hey, pissed. 

Now what happens when Huwai starts getting sued? Given China's current status, they'd better hope these aren't jury trials. North Korea might stop being the only Hermit Kingdom. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

I like to keep things simple, i see world affairs going in a different direction. Below is cartoon i shall never forget...i believe it sums up this new direction...

Edited April 26, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,132]

9 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Yes, definitely I was looking for sympathy. For the United States.

High-tech companies in the United States are already alarming Trump administration about these processes.

Well boy, that is what happens when you INVENT the TECH.... YOU OWN the IP.

Gosh Golly Gee, poor baby Marcin...

You want a cheaper phone, go for it, put in the backbreaking labor to build it with YOUR hands, sweat, blood, and labor.  Do not STEAL from me and then Bitch that I did not allow you to steal

[ronwagn + 6,290]

10 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Yes, that is exactly the risk.

Company has a few solutions to mitigate this risk, but all these solutions have significant adverse effects for the United States.

Chinese GDP is 14 trillion dollars, output of Chinese manufacturing, the largest in the world is 4 trillion dollars a year.

And all of these companies, the mammoth, are under the risk of both US tariffs and ability of conducting business going forward with any usage of US technologies, components or machinery.

But that is only the domestic Chinese market. What is of the utmost concern is global backlash.

All non-American companies could be impacted if they use US machinery, technology or components.

And for nearly all multinationals Chinese market is so important that their competitive position would be significantly diminished if they loose this market.

So all the global multinationals are doing risk assesment: and make 1 of the choices.

The best, the safest is to get rid of US machinery, technology, components.

And if the cost is low they are already substituting US technology with any other.

This is very dangerous for US economy and competitiveness.

There are also many other indirect effectes

Then don't worry about it Marcin. You are not rooting for America anyway. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

10 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Yes this I understand. But remember that this is the largest global manufacturer, Huawei is the largest telecom gear provider, there is already backlash. A lot of Americans still do not know what power, sheer economic power to de-Americanize if possible was started. The huge process that is out of US control is in motion.

It is for the American supporters and the Chinese supporters to decide what they will do. We are now forcing them to show their intentions. Previously, they could support the Chinese without committing to the United States at all. Free and fair trade is the goal. Fair includes not stealing technology, not abusing the people of third world nations by buying off their dictators and United Nations bureaucrats etc. etc. 

Up until President Trump's term our policies have been dictated by our own international corporatists who become rich by manufacturing or purchasing products in China and selling them in America at high profits. We now need to build a supply chain domestically and with our firm friends. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

6 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Our governments, like I mentioned, were not paying attention to what was developing at home from all of this.  Namely whole factories were being off-shored to China and American (and other country's) workers were beginning to lose their jobs, slowly at first and very rapidly over the last 15 or so years (pre-Trump/2016).  Admittedly, our governments were preoccupied with 9/11, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq again, a couple of market crashes, etc., and I guess everyone was just happy that the Chinese produced stuff and seemed to be doing fine.  Whew!  One less thing to deal with.  

 

They were paying attention, they were using that as inflation control. Just that they didn't realize that the 1970s and early 1980s inflation breakout had been over for well 2 decades. 

Also the industrialization of the absolutely gigantic Chinese baby boomer generation was the sole source of global growth from 2000-2013. And China's attempts at making an ersatz market economy just managed to make it run a bit longer afterwards.  It was not unnoticed, it was welcomed. 60%+ of global trade, and 85% of monetary expansion 1996-2019, and nearly all credit expansion since 2009. China expanded credit in the 2008-2011 period more than the US, EU, Japan + everyone else put together. 

Without the China boom and its artificial extension this decade, Germany would have been in recession since 2001 and looked like Italy's economy rather than having a clean balance sheet and no worry spending money on its CV19 program. 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

Investment to China is always a high risk high return.The risk is that China can always duplicate your business and subsidy it to make their products cheaper, steal your IPs and the high return (your competitive to other opponents)  comes from  their supplies are cheap in your suppliers chain because they do the same things above to others (China doesn't provide the cheapest labour). The ones who invest money to removed their factories away from China, like Samsung, will prevail.

OP you have been using PISA ranking on the past, but you cannot say 1.4 billions smart people. There is a big gap in urban and rural educations in countries like China, India, Vietnam etc. (I found it in the reverse in the US, the higher density the lower public school quality). It depends on you choose quality or quantity

Quote

The results of PISA 2018 were presented on 3 December 2019, which included data for around 600,000 participating students in 79 countries and economies, with China's economic area of Beijing, Shanghai, Jiangsu and Zhejiang emerging as the top performer in all categories. Note that this does not represent the entirety of mainland China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment

That's why China acquire lots of companies in the US or EU, besides the IPs, they want to have mature top talents and up to date experiences work for them. I have read somewhere they even have a camera behind your computer screen for supervision, so many prefer not to work for them unless you really need to or too good pay. You don't need to have talents to work on a old manufacturing optimized for cheap labor. And I pointed out they cannot lead in top R&D in other threads. 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by SUZNV

[0R0 + 6,251]

7 hours ago, Uvuvwevwevwe Onyetenyevwe Ugwemuhwem Osas said:

Exclusive: leaked docs expose China’s secret internet troll ops

https://youtu.be/WZCnLveJ-Ko?t=75

Secret?

The guidelines are translated to all languages and posted everywhere. That is how the talking points are so easily identified and point out the troll in glowing phosphorescent yellow. They were better at it in the 1990s.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

17 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Secret?

The guidelines are translated to all languages and posted everywhere. That is how the talking points are so easily identified and point out the troll in glowing phosphorescent yellow. They were better at it in the 1990s.

An excellent point.