So the President is on that Hydroxy

[Jim Profit + 46]

The unethical Raoult played with patients lives giving this unproven treatment without respecting clinical trial rules.
If he wanted to do science he had the means to create a control group. He choose not to.
I see we agree that this study doesn't prove that HCQ+AZ is effective vs the mortality rate.

[Jim Profit + 46]

5 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

But today, any blatant stupidity Trump spits out (he does not really think much, he just randomly throws them out), the whole cult comes and starts to mindlessly parrot it - hydrochloroquine, bad China, bad WHO, bad Obama, bad universal healthcare, bleach injection, every single blatant stupidity gets vigorously defended by the mindless T-cult crowd. 

I would think that at this point the remaining Trump supporters are unconditionnal supporters.
Another factor would be that most of his talking points are also Kremlin propaganda.
Kremlin trolls influence american opinion to promote those points..

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Jim Profit
typos

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

17 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I’ll give you that he is not lying, but his tunnel vision and ultra conservative opinion is driving issues which he apparently does not understand, nor can he see the consequences of.

It is my opinion that the good doctor is thinking ‘worst case’ and hyping models which highlight that case. The models have recently been shown to be defective and are not mirroring the events on the ground. The Covid-19 issue is much more than a medical issue at this point, it is seriously effecting our society and economy.

The governors and politicians in many states appear to be in ‘cover their ass’ mode and will adopt ANY plan to combat this virus simply so there is no blowback on them later and they can claim that they did EVERYTHING they could....even if that ignores the Constitution or the Bill of Rights!

I do not expect non-Americans to fully understand the seriousness which Americans place on their freedoms, but to ignore this issue, in the States, is a very slippery slope.

A very poor analogy would be to ban alcohol in an effort to curb drunk driving. You can see something similar during Prohibition.

Dr. Fauci is a career immunologist, the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institutes of Health.  By definition he is a career bureaucrat, and a good one depending on how you define "good bureaucrat".  When presidents have been faced with diseases such as AIDS, Ebola, and now Covid-19, who are they going to summon to the White House?  Why, the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, of course.  Who else?  And that person is Dr. Fauci.  When it comes to the Government's top immunologist, he is the best the Government has.

Now, the President needs to form a Covid-19 task force, and he has its leader: Dr. Fauci.  The President must also fill out the task force with the top relevant leaders of the military.  No problem, call the Joint Chiefs and order them to get the right people to the White House immediately.  The military brings a lot to the table: their top Doctors and staff, their own immunologists, transportation and logistics, emergency supplies, manpower, etc.  Done.  Call the Director of FEMA and bring them on board.  FEMA will coordinate between civilian and military resources and so much more.  He also needs to tap the leading immunologists outside the government in the private sector and in the top world health organizations.  No problem, Dr. Fauci knows them all and he can get them on the team immediately.  (Let's take a moment to acknowledge that all UN bodies are seen by the U.S. as corrupt and "influenced" by the CCP, and the WHO is no exception.  The president can and will use this to political advantage, questioning WHO recommendations, timelines, loyalties, and generally directing the Nation's frustrations at them.)

Now, it needs to be pointed out that the President's normal team already contains his top economic advisers.  And he is going to need them, because nobody in his task force is an economist, suffice it to say.  In fact, every member of his task force, at best, can attempt to advise the cost of their own contributions and the human costs depending upon the direction their consensus takes them, but itis not in their usual scope to consider what happens to economies.

At this point it should be obvious that Dr. Fauci can not and should not be held accountable for decisions regarding the economy.  That responsibility falls on the President's economic advisers and therefore the President himself.  This has led to the perception of a divide between the Nation's top Immunologist, whose complete focus is now on the virus, and the President, who will be held accountable for both the body counts (forgive me) and the economy.  IMHO one simply can not expect Dr. Fauci to put the economy before his plan to attack the virus.  Nor should he.  So when it comes to questions of reopening the economy, the President and nobody else is responsible for balancing the human toll of the virus and the economic toll, and taking action as he sees fit.  Every other person in the world, most notably his political opponents, can have an opinion, but the only person with the responsibility is the President.

On to the pharmaceuticals issues.  Do not forget the above roles and responsibilities.  They play a huge factor, of course. 

The President wants a cure and he wants it now, AND he wants to get the economy running again, also as soon as possible.  The President throws massive amounts of money at task force efforts (realistically it is "proportional" and necessary if it is to save the economy), and makes it clear they are to pull out all the stops.  No matter what, the President knows he must do everything in his power to beat the virus and save lives.  But at some point, the President must make a decision to get the healthy people back to work and the economy going again.  It's not an easy decision.  Some people are going to suffer, some will die.  He has to make the decision: continue the lockdown strategy, or open it back up and face the consequences.  We elect our presidents for exactly this type of decision.  We want both a cure and to get back to work, but we may indeed have no choice but to accept a difficult compromise.  

The Task Force is made up of a number of people who go to the same meetings year in and year out.  Bureaucrats who must constantly fight for ever increasing budgets, grants, donations.  Private industry whose primary function is profits.  Long term budget security comes from long term relevance.  Long term relevance means making slow pain-staking progress towards a cure, while coming up with treatment options to lower death rates and suffering.  Corporate profits, it can be argued, rely on the same.  Therefore, one can also arguably surmise, the bureaucrats may discuss plans of action with their private industry peers, and they may come to an agreement that (expensive) medications over a long period of time will provide for each as well as the other.   For old, cheaper medicines: downplay their efficacy and discourage proper testing.  If some doctors around the world use them, or indeed if the President himself wants to try them, so be it.  The results can easily be declared unfounded and/or unproven, and potentially even dangerous.  For new, expensive medicines: do the opposite.  These same players have done the same for just about every disease that has come along in the last 50 years.  Why would we expect this time to be "special" or different?

Is Dr. Fauci "lying"?  Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  But no one can say that he made brash, off the cuff recommendations, and it can be said that he was cautious and methodical in his guidance, that he acted as one would expect an esteemed immunologist that is a top bureaucrat in the government to act.  He is obviously the best our government has to offer, or Donald Trump would have fired him, as he is often keen to do.   I don't think he has "lied" to anyone.  It may well be that he has some intermixed long term goals in mind, but he appears to have carried out his duties admirably.  Just ask any of his peers; they will back him up completely.  Which leaves the rest of us to our soapboxes and opinions.

[HermitMunster + 146]

On 5/19/2020 at 5:46 AM, BLA said:

His Doctor confirmed it .

You think a medical dr will ruin his reputation by lying ? 

Turkey just made it available to all its population.  All EU is making it available.   HCQ is safe.

Trump taking with zinc. 

The studies that say it does not work cite anecdotal studies from hospitals that tried it on patients in the last stage of virus on ventilators.   It doesn't work for them. Too late. 

FDA insists they have to wait for a double blinded study of 600 patients that is to be completed end of July . . .  then quote the Virgina observation ( not even a study) by some optometrists , that gave low doses to critical patients to say it does not work.  The FDA HAS APPROVED HCQ SAFE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN.  Even the FDA is a partisan hypocrite .

FDA a bunch of "never Trumpers".

Just like the CDC.  THE CDC received an annual budget of $8 Billion !  Just when you need them they fail.  They failed the stress test.  They are just one more over grown  federal beaurocracy that needs to be cleaned up. CDC funded programs on bullying, transgender and other extraneous matters and failed when they were needed the most.

THE CDC AN $8 BILLION A YEAR AGENCY THAT FAILED AT THE ONE THING THAT THEY ARE GIVEN A MASSIVE BUDGET TO DO. 

It's an election year .  Can't fire anyone.  

 

Look at what Michael Jackson's doctor did for him.

This is the POTUS we're talking about.

[BLA + 1,666]

10 hours ago, HermitMunster said:

Look at what Michael Jackson's doctor did for him.

This is the POTUS we're talking about.

What medicines Trump takes is his business.

A billion HCQ prescription have been written and consumed.  HCQ + Zinc is harmless.

It's the azithromycin  that can affect some with heart conditions.  Pelosi is so concerned for Trump's life.  Please spare us. 

You're just another hater.

Hillary lost. It's 3 1/2 years ago.    GET OVER IT. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by BLA

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

6 minutes ago, HermitMunster said:

Look at what Michael Jackson's doctor did for him.

This is the POTUS we're talking about.

Indeed, and the POTUS is not using some Hollywood enabler.  He is not using a doctor of last resort and very questionable integrity.  He is using a high ranking military officer doctor who is sworn to protect the Republic and his CIC.

[HermitMunster + 146]

19 minutes ago, BLA said:

What medicines Trump takes is his business.

A billion HCQ prescription have been written and consumed.  HCQ + Zinc is harmless.

It's the azithromycin  that can affect some with heart conditions.  Pelosi is so concerned for Trump's life.  Please spare us. 

Another hater.

Hillary lost. It's 3 1/2 years ago.    GET OVER IT. 

This is just Trump giving the middle finger to the other side. I'm not even saying that it would be bad if he were taking it, but, he's just being cheeky. 

[BradleyPNW + 282]

"I do not take responsibility at all because..." 

#OBAMAGATE! 
 

 

[El Gato + 254]

4 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

The Trump cult is seriously the scariest development of the recent history. It was bad under Bush, when republisheep repeated after their slightly demented leader that "we have to invade Iraq, because it's responsible for 9/11" - it was not, it was the work of US good friends Saudis, long before they started chopping up investigative journalist and dancing the Sabre Dance with the US administration. But there were rays of critical reasoning here and there. 

But today, any blatant stupidity Trump spits out (he does not really think much, he just randomly throws them out), the whole cult comes and starts to mindlessly parrot it - hydrochloroquine, bad China, bad WHO, bad Obama, bad universal healthcare, bleach injection, every single blatant stupidity gets vigorously defended by the mindless T-cult crowd. 

As Paul Krugman writes in his book "Arguing with zombies", ideas that should not hold in an educated and civilized society are impossible to refute in the current American public debate. Facts are ignored, the highest representative of the state lies on camera every day, again and again, and those are not subtle, clever lies, those are stupid, obvious, blatant lies a not very clever child would use, and the nation is till powerless to remove him from the office. Horrendous. 

Here's what it boils down to: If you and the rest of the leftists/socialists/progressives would quit telling us everything we do is wrong, and quit trying to enact more rules on us and just let us live in peace, we wouldn't have gone to Trump, But NO! You tried to force power mongers and morons like Bernie on us, So we have no choice, idiots who want to control every aspect of our lives and make money while they are at it, or Trump. Seems like a no brainer. So Until you can come up with a Democrat leader that has a modicum of common sense and is relative to the population who works for a living. Leave us and Trump alone

Edited May 21, 2020 by El Gato

[Jim Profit + 46]

50 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Indeed, and the POTUS is not using some Hollywood enabler.  He is not using a doctor of last resort and very questionable integrity.  He is using a high ranking military officer doctor who is sworn to protect the Republic and his CIC.

The letter of the doctor is vague enough that he could be taking it as well as not taking it.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Jim Profit

[Jim Profit + 46]

22 minutes ago, El Gato said:

So Until you can come up with a Democrat leader that has a modicum of common sense and is relative to the population who works for a living.

Said the supporter of Trump, the dumbest POTUS ever, a silver-spooned man who got 200 millions from daddy...
Thanks for the laugh.

[BradleyPNW + 282]

46 minutes ago, El Gato said:

Here's what it boils down to: If you and the rest of the leftists/socialists/progressives would quit telling us everything we do is wrong, and quit trying to enact more rules on us and just let us live in peace, we wouldn't have gone to Trump, But NO! You tried to force power mongers and morons like Bernie on us, So we have no choice, idiots who want to control every aspect of our lives and make money while they are at it, or Trump. Seems like a no brainer. So Until you can come up with a Democrat leader that has a modicum of common sense and is relative to the population who works for a living. Leave us and Trump alone

"It's not my fault, you made me do it!"

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

Uhhh ohh Antifa is running amuck once again,this should be quite interesting. Lets see how well thought out Rumor Has It has evolved.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

3 hours ago, Jim Profit said:

The unethical Raoult played with patients lives giving this unproven treatment without respecting clinical trial rules.
If he wanted to do science he had the means to create a control group. He choose not to.
I see we agree that this study doesn't prove that HCQ+AZ is effective vs the mortality rate.

Long time no see, have you any details on Turkeys success with HCQ. And to that note was HCQ was a intervention technique in the reckless experiment..or was it used as a cure or heal a body destroyed by its own immune system. Interesting do intervention techniques go under rigorous clinical trials or do they merely serve as a Intervention?

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 hour ago, HermitMunster said:

This is just Trump giving the middle finger to the other side. I'm not even saying that it would be bad if he were taking it, but, he's just being cheeky. 

I'm sure there is a certain amount of truth in that.  But Donald Trump, more accurately, put his money where his mouth is and swallowed the pills.  Rest assured he would not take them if he knew there was some risk of killing himself.  And rest assured he did take them because there is always someone around ready to leak that HE LIED, HE LIED, HE DIDN'T REALLY TAKE THE PILlS!  I'd guess he put his weight behind the cheaper readily available choice that he, like we, have heard great things about from Doctors around the world, and quite probably from his military medical staff as well.  If the President and CIC of the U.S. Armed Forces orders the military to give him a private assessment, they will do so whether it contradicts a bureaucrat or not.  And THAT will leak out, which it already has. 

Some say Trump doesn't miss any opportunity to push the Left's buttons, and I'd say that is correct.  In fact it is one of the things that his supporters like about him, my self included.  Why wouldn't he; I would.  What with them constantly attacking him with BS charges of the highest variety, and of the lowest.  Latest?  The oh so politically correct Lefty Leader Nancy Pelosi goes on national TV and calls the President of the United States "morbidly obese".

From Insider:

People are criticizing Nancy Pelosi for fat-shaming Trump

Or from CNN, of course:

Nancy Pelosi called President Trump 'morbidly obese.' Is he ...

[ronwagn + 6,290]

4 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Dr. Fauci is a career immunologist, the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, National Institutes of Health.  By definition he is a career bureaucrat, and a good one depending on how you define "good bureaucrat".  When presidents have been faced with diseases such as AIDS, Ebola, and now Covid-19, who are they going to summon to the White House?  Why, the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, of course.  Who else?  And that person is Dr. Fauci.  When it comes to the Government's top immunologist, he is the best the Government has.

Now, the President needs to form a Covid-19 task force, and he has its leader: Dr. Fauci.  The President must also fill out the task force with the top relevant leaders of the military.  No problem, call the Joint Chiefs and order them to get the right people to the White House immediately.  The military brings a lot to the table: their top Doctors and staff, their own immunologists, transportation and logistics, emergency supplies, manpower, etc.  Done.  Call the Director of FEMA and bring them on board.  FEMA will coordinate between civilian and military resources and so much more.  He also needs to tap the leading immunologists outside the government in the private sector and in the top world health organizations.  No problem, Dr. Fauci knows them all and he can get them on the team immediately.  (Let's take a moment to acknowledge that all UN bodies are seen by the U.S. as corrupt and "influenced" by the CCP, and the WHO is no exception.  The president can and will use this to political advantage, questioning WHO recommendations, timelines, loyalties, and generally directing the Nation's frustrations at them.)

Now, it needs to be pointed out that the President's normal team already contains his top economic advisers.  And he is going to need them, because nobody in his task force is an economist, suffice it to say.  In fact, every member of his task force, at best, can attempt to advise the cost of their own contributions and the human costs depending upon the direction their consensus takes them, but itis not in their usual scope to consider what happens to economies.

At this point it should be obvious that Dr. Fauci can not and should not be held accountable for decisions regarding the economy.  That responsibility falls on the President's economic advisers and therefore the President himself.  This has led to the perception of a divide between the Nation's top Immunologist, whose complete focus is now on the virus, and the President, who will be held accountable for both the body counts (forgive me) and the economy.  IMHO one simply can not expect Dr. Fauci to put the economy before his plan to attack the virus.  Nor should he.  So when it comes to questions of reopening the economy, the President and nobody else is responsible for balancing the human toll of the virus and the economic toll, and taking action as he sees fit.  Every other person in the world, most notably his political opponents, can have an opinion, but the only person with the responsibility is the President.

On to the pharmaceuticals issues.  Do not forget the above roles and responsibilities.  They play a huge factor, of course. 

The President wants a cure and he wants it now, AND he wants to get the economy running again, also as soon as possible.  The President throws massive amounts of money at task force efforts (realistically it is "proportional" and necessary if it is to save the economy), and makes it clear they are to pull out all the stops.  No matter what, the President knows he must do everything in his power to beat the virus and save lives.  But at some point, the President must make a decision to get the healthy people back to work and the economy going again.  It's not an easy decision.  Some people are going to suffer, some will die.  He has to make the decision: continue the lockdown strategy, or open it back up and face the consequences.  We elect our presidents for exactly this type of decision.  We want both a cure and to get back to work, but we may indeed have no choice but to accept a difficult compromise.  

The Task Force is made up of a number of people who go to the same meetings year in and year out.  Bureaucrats who must constantly fight for ever increasing budgets, grants, donations.  Private industry whose primary function is profits.  Long term budget security comes from long term relevance.  Long term relevance means making slow pain-staking progress towards a cure, while coming up with treatment options to lower death rates and suffering.  Corporate profits, it can be argued, rely on the same.  Therefore, one can also arguably surmise, the bureaucrats may discuss plans of action with their private industry peers, and they may come to an agreement that (expensive) medications over a long period of time will provide for each as well as the other.   For old, cheaper medicines: downplay their efficacy and discourage proper testing.  If some doctors around the world use them, or indeed if the President himself wants to try them, so be it.  The results can easily be declared unfounded and/or unproven, and potentially even dangerous.  For new, expensive medicines: do the opposite.  These same players have done the same for just about every disease that has come along in the last 50 years.  Why would we expect this time to be "special" or different?

Is Dr. Fauci "lying"?  Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  But no one can say that he made brash, off the cuff recommendations, and it can be said that he was cautious and methodical in his guidance, that he acted as one would expect an esteemed immunologist that is a top bureaucrat in the government to act.  He is obviously the best our government has to offer, or Donald Trump would have fired him, as he is often keen to do.   I don't think he has "lied" to anyone.  It may well be that he has some intermixed long term goals in mind, but he appears to have carried out his duties admirably.  Just ask any of his peers; they will back him up completely.  Which leaves the rest of us to our soapboxes and opinions.

Fauci is the same guy that said not to close the borders, not to wear masks, not to use hydroxychloroquine, that we would have ten times the death rate from COVID 19 that we do. Those facts are what comes to mind. I knew he was dead wrong on all of those statements. I would say he is a really well educated idiot that has a lot of hidden agendas. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

14 hours ago, Tom Nolan said:

Bottom line...

Jim Profit can decide for himself what he wants to do for his health.  But Jim Profit has no right (and NO ON DOES) to dictate mandates to others what they should do about their health.

 

Just realize that is a joke people....

[Daves Workshop 0]

On 5/19/2020 at 6:35 PM, BLA said:

So what does that say about Hillary.

he he he he 

Is she still on suicide watch .  

Hillary doesn't suicide herself.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8342933/UK-frontline-workers-given-hydroxychloroquine-clinical-trial.html

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Hey reflexive haters of HCQ, (aka shills) you are losing control of your panic narrative.  You need to panic harder and louder, I guess.

https://www.newsmax.com/scitech/brazil-covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-hcq/2020/05/20/id/968264/

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

HCQ knee jerk haters, you are losing control of your TDS hysteria narrative.  

Trump Chides Reporter Who Asks About HCQ and Ignores VA Secretary's Answer

The more President Trump praises it, the more the media have tried to vilify the drug hydroxychloroquine as an evil drug that will do more harm than good in the coronavirus fight. At his cabinet meeting on Tuesday, a reporter asked the president about the recent Veterans Affairs study that actually resulted in a higher mortality rate for patients on HCQ. Trump quickly refuted the claim. 

The study in question, Trump explained, was a "phony," for the drug was administered to people already in really bad shape and "ready to die." He added that the people who administered the drug were "obviously not friends of the administration."

When VA Secretary Robert Wilkie spoke up to correct the inaccurate media reports, Trump turned to the reporter who had posed the question and chided him for not paying attention.

When VA Secretary Robert Wilkie spoke up to correct the inaccurate media reports, Trump turned to the reporter who had posed the question and chided him for not paying attention.

"Can you hear him?" Trump asked the reporter. "Because I think it's important. Do you want to listen? Because I don't even think you're listening. Why don't you listen to him."

"That was not a VA study," Wilkie explained. "Researchers took VA numbers and they did not clinically review them, they were not peer reviewed. They did not even look at the various comorbidities the patients that were referenced in that study had."

Trump announced on Monday that he's been taking a dose of HCQ for 10 days now. Frustrated by the media onslaught about the drug, Trump mused that "if anyone else was promoting it they'd say it was the greatest thing ever."

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

And other surprising news:

Top HIV scientist says he wouldn't count on a vaccine for coronavirus soon

While a COVID-19 vaccine could be developed, he said, “I wouldn’t count on it.”

Vaccines developed previously for other types of coronavirus had failed to protect mucous membranes in the nose where the virus typically enters the body, he said.

[GOZRX + 5]

On 5/19/2020 at 12:27 PM, Jim Profit said:

Plaquenil (HCQ) exists for many years. 🤦‍♂️

You mean that since COVID-19 appeared Plaquenil has lost its averse effects ???

As for the rest of your post: poor distraction attempt, 3/10

You must love cherries. Very prolific at cherry picking studies to support your position rather than seeking truth. Looking at actual data from long term use of hydroxychloroquine adverse reactions are rare!!!!(<1 cardiac ) so hyped by you and the media. How many hydroxychloroquine patients have you talked with about adverse reactions? I talk to them everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GOZRX + 5]

17 hours ago, Jim Profit said:

The unethical Raoult played with patients lives giving this unproven treatment without respecting clinical trial rules.
If he wanted to do science he had the means to create a control group. He choose not to.
I see we agree that this study doesn't prove that HCQ+AZ is effective vs the mortality rate.

You really don't understand medical treatment slightly. Raoult treatment protocol is ethical vs your call for randomized study (withholding medication from some patients) with a medication regimen shown to have >90% cure rate in less than 10 days of hospitalized not already experiencing cytokine storm. Please don't reference the VA and Albany studies as they are less than a joke. Many people hate the orange man that it destroys the ability to think logically and examine data honestly.

[Jim Profit + 46]

6 hours ago, GOZRX said:

You must love cherries. Very prolific at cherry picking studies to support your position rather than seeking truth. Looking at actual data from long term use of hydroxychloroquine adverse reactions are rare!!!!(<1 cardiac ) so hyped by you and the media. How many hydroxychloroquine patients have you talked with about adverse reactions? I talk to them everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can tell you what is cherry picking:

Ignoring such factual evidence as

The Plaquenil monogram http://products.sanofi.ca/en/plaquenil.pdf

The warnings sof the FDA, the authoritative agency on this topic (ot the french equivalent ANSM)

The documented cases of adverse reactions in the FDA database 10344 serious cases, 223 death linked to Plaquenil. (data as the 31th march, unfortunately more to come)

The cases reported to the ANSM

The fact that in some treatment HCQ is combined with other cardiotoxic medications like Azythromycin..

And only picking a flyer about preventive anti-malarial use of HCQ whose dosage is 7 times less than for COVID-19..

I don't claim that 90% of people will die from taking HCQ, but side-effects are real. Lupus patients have a serious condition against which the HCQ is effective, so side-effects are outweighed by benefits. As always this is a case of therapeutic benefit. 

Your denialism isn't my cherry-picking.