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Tom Kirkman

"Fracked gas contains high amounts of methane."

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22 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

So the pipeline between the well and the dewatering plant doesn't count?

I need to explain no more.

No! That flowline from the wellhead to the gathering system or process plant/compressor station does NOT count! These wellhead fluids are NOT introduced into the transmission line until AFTER the fluids have been separated, cleaned up and dewatered!

If there was a problem in the gathering system, it would be sorted out before it entered the processing plant!

Just admit that you have no idea concerning oilfield operations and stick with what you know!!! At this point you are only digging yourself in deeper.

I know essentially nothing about lab work (I’ve forgotten everything to do with labs since graduating from college 36 years ago) and it is no ‘skin off my nose’ to admit it. You, on the other hand, seem to take offense when someone calls you out on some issue which you really know nothing about....why?

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1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

If Tom can show me that the rejected pipeline was for consumer grade dry natural gas I will eat my words. 

A simple joke gets so off track.  The punch line was already in the thread title.  Ah well.  

Meantime, penguin researchers apparently get hysterical laughing fits when surrounded by their dangerous greenhouse gas poop.

Antarctic penguins release extreme amounts of laughing gas in their feces

In a new study, researchers from the University of Copenhagen have demonstrated that penguins in Antarctica emit copious amounts of nitrous oxide via their feces. So much so, that the researchers went ”cuckoo” from being surrounded by penguin poop.

“Penguin guano produces significantly high levels of nitrous oxide around their colonies. The maximum emissions are about 100 times higher than in a recently fertilized Danish field,” Elberling said in a University of Copenhagen release. He described the experience of being around the colonies as “truly intense.”

However, there is something very special about the comings and goings of king penguins. Tremendous amounts of nitrous oxide, better known as laughing gas, are released via their guano, according to a 2019 study completed by researchers from the University of Copenhagen and their colleagues.

“Penguin guano produces significantly high levels of nitrous oxide around their colonies. The maximum emissions are about 100 times higher than in a recently fertilised Danish field. It is truly intense — not least because nitrous oxide is 300 times more polluting than CO2,” explains Professor Bo Elberling, of the University of Copenhagen’s Department of Geosciences and Natural Resource Management.

When these penguins poop, fueled by a diet of fish, squid and krill, nitrogen is released from their feces into the ground. The bacteria in the soil then converts the nitrogen into nitrous oxide — a greenhouse gas commonly known as laughing gas.  ...

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8 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

Someone told me a story about watching some environmentalist complaining about dumping all our radioactive waste into the Sun. The question was 'wouldn't this pollute the Sun?'. I snickered, but when I suggested this to one of my lefty friends, she asked me the same question. I pointed out the the Sun is a thermonuclear furnace, and the piddling amount of substance we aimed at it would be vaporized and blasted into interstellar space before it got anywhere near the solar surface.

They could try volcanoes since they are closer on earth.

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(edited)

I have found that natural gas is usually used positively and methane is usually used negatively for describing almost the same thing since natural gas is mostly made of methane.

Edited by canadas canadas
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13 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

Someone told me a story about watching some environmentalist complaining about dumping all our radioactive waste into the Sun. The question was 'wouldn't this pollute the Sun?'. I snickered, but when I suggested this to one of my lefty friends, she asked me the same question. I pointed out the the Sun is a thermonuclear furnace, and the piddling amount of substance we aimed at it would be vaporized and blasted into interstellar space before it got anywhere near the solar surface.

Okay your story wins for sure. 😆

Not knowing plutonium is synthetic pales in comparison to thinking that the sun can be polluted. 

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I suppose, there was that one guy on this forum insisting to me that water's heat of formation was "an outdated figure". After finally getting the point across that it's literally the fixed figure for energy release he starts trying to say that hydrogen "breaks the laws of physics all of the time". Therefore we can create energy by splitting water with nothing? Yea... 

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9 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

If Tom can show me that the rejected pipeline was for consumer grade dry natural gas I will eat my words. 

Start chomping buckwheat

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I started to reply to Enthalpic yesterday regarding produced water in a pipeline but I didn't want to start a contest involving urine flow (is that pc?).  I have sold gas for many years and Mr. Buckland is entirely correct.  transmission lines require gas to be dry (preferably 100 % methane but some ethane is also accepted) No NGLs, O2 or H2O.  They require extensive and expensive auto monitors and auto shut off valves on our side of the valve.  There may well be some tiny fraction of H20 still associated with the gas that might accumulate of the years but this water would be distilled water.  The only impurities would be from rust in the pipeline which is only one of the reasons O2 is such a big no-no.  Enthalpic seem to be a very intelligent person.  Reading this often reminds me of the fable of the blind men trying to describe an elephant.  One says it's like a rope while another says its like a tree.  The industry I have worked in every day for over forty years suffers because it is so important to everyone on the planet, yet folks who really know how it works are rare.  And when I say this, I hasten to add that there is plenty that I don't know as well. (offshore, international,etc)  

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15 minutes ago, john bozeman said:

I started to reply to Enthalpic yesterday regarding produced water in a pipeline but I didn't want to start a contest involving urine flow (is that pc?).  I have sold gas for many years and Mr. Buckland is entirely correct.  transmission lines require gas to be dry (preferably 100 % methane but some ethane is also accepted) No NGLs, O2 or H2O.  They require extensive and expensive auto monitors and auto shut off valves on our side of the valve.  There may well be some tiny fraction of H20 still associated with the gas that might accumulate of the years but this water would be distilled water.  The only impurities would be from rust in the pipeline which is only one of the reasons O2 is such a big no-no.  Enthalpic seem to be a very intelligent person.  Reading this often reminds me of the fable of the blind men trying to describe an elephant.  One says it's like a rope while another says its like a tree.  The industry I have worked in every day for over forty years suffers because it is so important to everyone on the planet, yet folks who really know how it works are rare.  And when I say this, I hasten to add that there is plenty that I don't know as well. (offshore, international,etc)  

I agree that the pipeline operators do not want high dissolved solids water getting into their expensive pipes (scale, rust, etc.).

I also understand that temperature and pressure swings will cause some condensate to build up.

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16 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

Someone told me a story about watching some environmentalist complaining about dumping all our radioactive waste into the Sun. The question was 'wouldn't this pollute the Sun?'. I snickered, but when I suggested this to one of my lefty friends, she asked me the same question. I pointed out the the Sun is a thermonuclear furnace, and the piddling amount of substance we aimed at it would be vaporized and blasted into interstellar space before it got anywhere near the solar surface.

The main problem with sun disposal is if the rocket explodes during takeoff.  If that happens all you did was scatter radioactive waste all over earth - a giant "dirty bomb."

If you make the casing "explosion proof" it is too heavy and expensive to launch.

The idea of "polluting the sun" is funny.

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12 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I know essentially nothing about lab work (I’ve forgotten everything to do with labs since graduating from college 36 years ago) and it is no ‘skin off my nose’ to admit it. You, on the other hand, seem to take offense when someone calls you out on some issue which you really know nothing about....why?

 

I admitted I didn't know all the well details.  I do know that gas wells / pipes accidentally release brine on occasion.

The enforcement officers are not oil professionals either.  They called me and said something like "incoming samples of produced water from gas operation pipeline break."   That was all I needed to know to get the tests done and write a report. Excessive sample details can actually hurt the labs credibility (defence can start claiming the lab falsified data because they hated company XYZ or loved company ABC).

 

 

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(edited)

Any natural gas professionals know if they need to further treat / de-water the gas when the pressure is lowered from transmission to delivery pressures? 

Surely household gas (for a furnace or range) is at a lower pressure and is further cleaned before final delivery?

Ward, "consumer grade dry."

Edited by Enthalpic

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(edited)

Mr. Enthalpic

Outside of most commercial buildings throughout the US, one can see the gas pipes come out of the ground, go horizantal for a few feet, then go back underground.

Virtually always there will be a guage, valve, and - frequently - a small compartment beneath with which to collect precipitation from pressure drops.

Maintaining this 'last mile' hardware is usually the responsibility of the local utility (gas) company.

Edited by Coffeeguyzz
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1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

The main problem with sun disposal is if the rocket explodes during takeoff.  If that happens all you did was scatter radioactive waste all over earth - a giant "dirty bomb."

If you make the casing "explosion proof" it is too heavy and expensive to launch.

NASA thinks otherwise.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780015628.pdf

First, not all waste gets launched, only the waste that is particularly problematical. This means refining the low level waste to isolate only those isotopes that are worth getting rid of.

Second, this document dates to 1978 and presumes the shuttle is the launch platform. This is a lot more practical with the technologies now at our disposal. However, anyone reading this should keyword search 'HB11' and 'Chirp Lasers'. We may be at the point where we can transmute dangerous isotopes to harmless elements, and not even bother with either storage or disposal.

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3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

That link says up to 1% water by volume is fine.

That is not dry.

Good lord you're dumb. That number is for fuel oil as it says at the top of the table. You have to go down to the table several pages later for natural gas (pg 5) which does Not include water and is specified to be no more than 80  parts per million

"Water:
The water vapour content of natural gas in the Union Gas system is less than 80 mg/m3, and is typically 16 to 32 mg/m3."

Even a dim bulb like you can't claim 80mg in a cubic meter is one percent. 

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(edited)

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Good lord you're dumb. That number is for fuel oil as it says at the top of the table. You have to go down to the table several pages later for natural gas (pg 5) which does Not include water and is specified to be no more than 80  parts per million

"Water:
The water vapour content of natural gas in the Union Gas system is less than 80 mg/m3, and is typically 16 to 32 mg/m3."

Even a dim bulb like you can't claim 80mg in a cubic meter is one percent. 

Fine, it said "natural gas specs sheet" in the heading.  I wrongly assumed you were linking me to something about gas directly. Five pages deep, F that... TL:DR

80 ppm is pretty dry.. not lab-grade dry, but pretty dry.

Edited by Enthalpic
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(edited)

4 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

NASA thinks otherwise.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780015628.pdf

First, not all waste gets launched, only the waste that is particularly problematical. This means refining the low level waste to isolate only those isotopes that are worth getting rid of.

Second, this document dates to 1978 and presumes the shuttle is the launch platform. This is a lot more practical with the technologies now at our disposal. However, anyone reading this should keyword search 'HB11' and 'Chirp Lasers'. We may be at the point where we can transmute dangerous isotopes to harmless elements, and not even bother with either storage or disposal.

That paper is very old, international agreements are in place prohibiting such activities.

You can still legally launch some radioactive material but it must be needed for the mission and not just be waste disposal.

Edited by Enthalpic

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26 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Fine, it said "natural gas specs sheet" in the heading.  I wrongly assumed you were linking me to something about gas directly. Five pages deep, F that... TL:DR

80 ppm is pretty dry.. not lab-grade dry, but pretty dry.

You handicapped me by asking for "consumer" so I had to find a valid source that was not just industrial. Unfortunately not much I can do when it's PDF. Williams has their own even tighter regulations but that's not consumer. 

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