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COVID 19 May Be Less Deadly Than Flu Study Finds

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https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/35782-did-gov-destroy-economy-for-nothing-covid-may-be-less-deadly-than-flu-study-finds

Thursday, 21 May 2020

Did our bureaucrats mislead President Trump? Fauci certainly got everything wrong from the start IMO. RCW

Did Gov Destroy Economy for NOTHING? COVID May Be Less Deadly Than Flu, Study Finds

Written by  Selwyn Duke

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"‘It’s something I have never seen’: How the Covid-19 virus hijacks cells"
 

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“It’s something I have never seen in my 20 years of” studying viruses, said virologist Benjamin tenOever of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, referring to how SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, hijacks cells’ genomes.

The “something” he and his colleagues saw is how SARS-CoV-2 blocks one virus-fighting set of genes but allows another set to launch, a pattern never seen with other viruses. Influenza and the original SARS virus (in the early 2000s), for instance, interfere with both arms of the body’s immune response — what tenOever dubs “call to arms” genes and “call for reinforcement” genes.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

Did Gov Destroy Economy for NOTHING?

Of course.  When the world saw China's own reaction of quarantining an entire city of some 11 million people, everybody on the planet overreacted.  But, what was to be expected?  Knowing what everyone knew from past diseases coming out of China, and to see them take such drastic measure WAS scary.  Couple that with zero factual reports coming out of China, only CCP government statements, and it became the right thing to do, everywhere.

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7 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Of course.  When the world saw China's own reaction of quarantining an entire city of some 11 million people, everybody on the planet overreacted.  But, what was to be expected?  Knowing what everyone knew from past diseases coming out of China, and to see them take such drastic measure WAS scary.  Couple that with zero factual reports coming out of China, only CCP government statements, and it became the right thing to do, everywhere.

This raises an important question about the events early on.

Do you remember the many many videos and photographs of people keeling over and dropping dead in public in China? It's odd that there isn't even one single similar video from anywhere in the West, not surprising now we know the vast majority of deaths are in the elderly especially those already in hospital and care homes.

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Does the CV-19 virus weakens and compromises the immune system in some enough so that a secondary infection like pneumonia is what actually kills them?

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With the epicenter in Wuhan, with half a million people passing through Wuhan before it was locked down, with no lockdown in Shanghai or Beijing....doesn’t anyone else find it odd that the center of government (Beijing) and the financial center (Shanghai) were essentially untouched?

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6 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

With the epicenter in Wuhan, with half a million people passing through Wuhan before it was locked down, with no lockdown in Shanghai or Beijing....doesn’t anyone else find it odd that the center of government (Beijing) and the financial center (Shanghai) were essentially untouched?

I believe 5 million people left Wuhan before the lock down due to the Chinese new year holidays

 

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12 minutes ago, canadas canadas said:

Does the CV-19 virus weakens and compromises the immune system in some enough so that a secondary infection like pneumonia is what actually kills them?

Other way around, people with poor immune systems are more likely to catch it, develop symptoms and therefore more likely to end up in hospital. The figures show that the vast majority of people who die are not just old but usually have very serious health problems.

Just like flu wouldn't you know

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42 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

I believe 5 million people left Wuhan before the lock down due to the Chinese new year holidays

 

True...

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4 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

With the epicenter in Wuhan, with half a million people passing through Wuhan before it was locked down, with no lockdown in Shanghai or Beijing....doesn’t anyone else find it odd that the center of government (Beijing) and the financial center (Shanghai) were essentially untouched?

A surveillance state like China is more than capable of doing contact tracing on their own people. At the same time they were accusing Trump of racism for his Chinese travel ban, internally they were doing the exact same thing! Hubei travelers never got close to the crown jewels. 

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12 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Of course.  When the world saw China's own reaction of quarantining an entire city of some 11 million people, everybody on the planet overreacted.  But, what was to be expected?  Knowing what everyone knew from past diseases coming out of China, and to see them take such drastic measure WAS scary.  Couple that with zero factual reports coming out of China, only CCP government statements, and it became the right thing to do, everywhere.

No excuses. There were medical reports leaking out of China and they were confirmed by experience of early infections in Taiwan S. Korea and Singapore. We had always known that the risk was 99% concentrated in people who are very old and had comorbidities. On average >2 comorbidities per death, meaning that the virus may have been a contributor but not a cause of death in the many reported cases. There was always a need for the ill and very old to self isolate. It was well and widely known and confirmed. The entire CFR estimate fiasco was known to be off by at least a factor of 10 since February when the Diamond Princess data was published. Other stats from breakouts in the Singapore and S. Korean churches were even better tracked and produced an order of magnitude lower result of CFR than the WHO touted.

There was never the slightest excuse for the lockdowns. There was no truth to Nial Furgesson's estimates. The politicians that CHOSE those experts to advise them  were committing fraud. Nothing they did was right - just the opposite. Among the headless chicken decisions were throwing infected people into nursing homes, locking up infected people with their families rather than putting them up in any of millions of empty hotel rooms. Preventing people from wondering about in the open air.

The political class and public health staff are showing a degree of incompetence bordering on malicious sabotage. That is before one considers any possible conspiracies driving blatantly wrong decisions.

Bottom line, for the  "innocent" officials they essentially did what China did because that was the only large scale demonstration they had seen.

 

 

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(edited)

Yes that seems totally reasonable to say that covid-19 is less deadly than flu at this point.

Edited by Jim Profit

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The thing that does my head in is that common sense would tell you that a lockdown would make it worse. The reason we call the flu a "cold" is because it spreads more quickly during cold weather partly because everyone is indoors in enclosed spaces.

So precisely how we came up with the idea of simulating a bad winter to escape getting a cold boggles my mind. 

It's just as likely that the lockdown actually made things more infectious not less.

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1 minute ago, Jason Martin said:

The thing that does my head in is that common sense would tell you that a lockdown would make it worse. The reason we call the flu a "cold" is because it spreads more quickly during cold weather partly because everyone is indoors in enclosed spaces.

So precisely how we came up with the idea of simulating a bad winter to escape getting a cold boggles my mind. 

It's just as likely that the lockdown actually made things more infectious not less.

It would do so later, as the effects of economic collapse translate into a lack of resources to keep people alive,  but it did actually stop the spread of infectious disease like flu and pneumonia as well as Wuhan coronavirus. Here are examples of temperature readings in a few locations indicating how the shutdown did stop  flu etc. along with CV19

 

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image.png.31e293a53194ae36616d969821256e80.png

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jason Martin said:

The thing that does my head in is that common sense would tell you that a lockdown would make it worse. The reason we call the flu a "cold" is because it spreads more quickly during cold weather partly because everyone is indoors in enclosed spaces.

So precisely how we came up with the idea of simulating a bad winter to escape getting a cold boggles my mind. 

It's just as likely that the lockdown actually made things more infectious not less.

To your first point wimps call a cold the flu because they are wimps. If you've ever had influenza you will know it's no laughing matter and short of serious food poisoning I can't think of anything worse for an average fairly healthy person to catch. But...most healthy people have only had flu once or twice in their life times at most.

I think it's pretty clear now (something many of us were warning about over 2 months ago) that the negative effects of the lockdown and economic suicide are going to be far worse than covid. Suicide rates are rocketing as are issues related to depression and alcohol/drug abuse and this is all while we've been getting free money. That is going to dry up soon so the real disaster is yet to come. Additionally as you say locking people inside makes no sense as warm sunny weather (which we in the UK had 2 months of during lockdown) is "just what the doctor ordered".

The question is...is this incompetence or something else?

 

 

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1 minute ago, El Nikko said:

The question is...is this incompetence or something else?

^ bingo

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Just now, Tom Kirkman said:

^ bingo

Any theories?

I'm trying to keep mine 'tin foil' free but I keep coming round in circles

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Just now, El Nikko said:

Any theories?

I'm trying to keep mine 'tin foil' free but I keep coming round in circles

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1 hour ago, El Nikko said:

To your first point wimps call a cold the flu because they are wimps. If you've ever had influenza you will know it's no laughing matter and short of serious food poisoning I can't think of anything worse for an average fairly healthy person to catch. But...most healthy people have only had flu once or twice in their life times at most.

I think it's pretty clear now (something many of us were warning about over 2 months ago) that the negative effects of the lockdown and economic suicide are going to be far worse than covid. Suicide rates are rocketing as are issues related to depression and alcohol/drug abuse and this is all while we've been getting free money. That is going to dry up soon so the real disaster is yet to come. Additionally as you say locking people inside makes no sense as warm sunny weather (which we in the UK had 2 months of during lockdown) is "just what the doctor ordered".

The question is...is this incompetence or something else?

 

 

I suppose. The "cold" or flu as people call it is really a constellation of virii. I'm pretty sure influenza affects people differently. I've had the "the flu" on two continents, it never bothered me much. Whether it was specifically influenza b, or some other virus I don't know. I don't really get colds or flus. I have a particularly robust immune system. But then I'm one of those crazy ice bath people who takes vitamin d and c a lot and does yoga. I don't know if that really helps, but I "think" it helps. The key word in Placebo Effect is "effect".

Suicide rates and overdose rates are on the rise. An acquaintance of mine was just found the other day in a ditch after he fell in during a particularly strong dose of heroin.

I don't know anyone who has had covid. But I know at least one person who overdosed after losing his job...

I think you should never bother to attribute to incompetence what is better explained by malevolence. Personally I always assume malicious intent. 

People like Fauci and a lot of those in the media are the same kinds of people who buy the open on margin. They're gamblers. They're willing to risk it all on being right, because their currency is attention and respect. They just go on full tilt. In the end though, they're useful idiots. It was pretty clear from the beginning that fauci is being groomed to take the heat.

I think in the end that this was a case of "never let a good crisis go to waste."

My opinion is likely to be very unpopular, but I think people saw an opportunity to "naturally" burn down the economy and they took it. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Jason Martin said:

I suppose. The "cold" or flu as people call it is really a constellation of virii. I'm pretty sure influenza affects people differently. I've had the "the flu" on two continents, it never bothered me much. Whether it was specifically influenza b, or some other virus I don't know. I don't really get colds or flus. I have a particularly robust immune system. But then I'm one of those crazy ice bath people who takes vitamin d and c a lot and does yoga. I don't know if that really helps, but I "think" it helps. The key word in Placebo Effect is "effect".

Suicide rates and overdose rates are on the rise. An acquaintance of mine was just found the other day in a ditch after he fell in during a particularly strong dose of heroin.

I don't know anyone who has had covid. But I know at least one person who overdosed after losing his job...

I think you should never bother to attribute to incompetence what is better explained by malevolence. Personally I always assume malicious intent. 

People like Fauci and a lot of those in the media are the same kinds of people who buy the open on margin. They're gamblers. They're willing to risk it all on being right, because their currency is attention and respect. They just go on full tilt. In the end though, they're useful idiots. It was pretty clear from the beginning that fauci is being groomed to take the heat.

I think in the end that this was a case of "never let a good crisis go to waste."

My opinion is likely to be very unpopular, but I think people saw an opportunity to "naturally" burn down the economy and they took it. 

 

I hope you didn't think I was being combative, I agreed with your sentiment but I've also seen a few things that others might not of :)

I've spent so much time 'war gaming' this thing that I've come to the conclusion we're in an economic crash 100Xworse than 2008. Scary stuff.

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11 hours ago, canadas canadas said:

Does the CV-19 virus weakens and compromises the immune system in some enough so that a secondary infection like pneumonia is what actually kills them?

Yes, it kills that way indirectly by destroying heme which carries oxygen. Your lungs keep working hard. Then they put you on a ventilator to save your life and it tears up your lungs in many cases causing permanent injury to your lungs or death. COVID 19 also attacks other systems though and the extreme inflammatory response does as well. Avoiding a ventilator through plasma and blood transfusions may be a better approach. 

The key is to start treating the disease immediately upon the onset of symptoms and testing. I would want hydroxychloroquine and zinc on hand in my home. I do have the zinc and several other helpful items to use if I acquire COVID 19. 

My topic on COVID 19 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MXY8T0j7k0oUBsHW4BfjJM__DRIyzqrDf_FSlV4hHpw/edit

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^

The world--especially the United States--has been bivalved: Had C19 or not. Knew someone who had it or not. Knew someone who died with it or not. Got financially hurt by the resulting pandemic or not. And on and on and on. Luck plays a role, as always. 

I was lucky. I was taking an ACE-I for blood pressure control. Well after the fact, it was shown that people my age taking ACE-I were 40% less likely to be hospitalized, have the "Happy Hypoxia" effect, or even experience the (usually fatal) cytokine storm of lore. I had one friend who was not so lucky. Three other friends barely survived--one was in the ICU for 7 days and will never be the same.

As one who has experienced Influenza without whimpering, this virus is most definitely not your father's Pontiac. There's a reason.

This virus was and is a Chimera: a virus made up of the genetic material of several different strains. The core is SARS from the horseshoe bat. A genomic sequence from the pangolin hooks onto it. Then there is some stuff that's more than likely handmade: particularly the Receptor Binding Motif and the Furin Cleavage Motif. The first has to do with a particularly sophisticated ACE-2 entry using the S-spike and the second in cutting the cell membrane to get in. Without these two motifs, the SARS-CoV-2 is . . . wimpy, someone said. Good term.

We of a certain age have an increased density of ACE-2 receptors on the epithelial cells that line the respiratory tract. Thus, a higher virus load at one dispositive point in time can just climb aboard, attach to any old receptor and facilitate cutting its way in, replicate inside thousands of cells at one time, and simultaneously rupture the cells and flush downstream in the respiratory tract as a crowd, precipitating the cytokine storm that kills you. At the hands of another tricked-up portion of the viral genome hijacking nuances of age, we may also be particularly susceptible to the excision of Fe from porphyrin, yielding a hemoglobin incapable of carrying oxygen. Whether we are more sensitive to activation of the intrinsic thrombotic cascade that causes clots--heart attacks and pulmonary emboli--remains to be seen. 

In one bad moment, Dr. Fauci was well aware that a chimeric virus had gotten loose, and suspected strongly, I'm sure, that it came from the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where Shi Svengli has been manufacturing such chimeras for well over a decade, mostly under the guise of gain-of-function research. She trained with Dr. Baric, who was and is a genius in the field that he basically created.

Dr. Fauci banned gain-of-function research in the US (for safety purposes--the virus had gotten too infectious and too slippery) but the NIH continued, until lately, to confer grant money upon Wuhan. The Galveston National Laboratory is exceptionally close to Wuhan--almost a sister lab--and that was the first place to get the virus from Snohomish. Google GNL if you wish to see their Chinese connections (hint: they are many and their website gushes on enough to make you sick). I'm not suggesting anything nefarious or seditious, just pointing out how unbelievably naive we've been to think that the CCP was in the mood of "idea-sharing."  

A lot of particular moves were made early on in this outbreak, because the people who knew this sort of thing could happen didn't know the magnitude of the mischief, or the sophistication of the virus. They were well aware of just what a godawful calamity could result and, from the sight in the streets of Wuhan, figured on the worst. Their social distancing idea came from the age-old epidemiological concept called "Farr's Law" and probably prevented our ER's from being confronted by hundreds of dying people each day. But in retrospect it was a move destined to sow panic, ruin families, promote self-destruction, bring about economic ruin. The virus has been awful in a totally different way than Dr. Fauci foresaw.  

Since this virus was a chimera--the likes of which can be made, attenuated, or made more vicious, within hours on a laboratory bench in the Wuhan Institute of Virology--we should be asking what C28 will look like. And will a vaccine made against the S-spike remotely be effective against what's next. But why think so negatively when the whole world now knows that this was much ado about nothing?

If there's a single ineluctable fact to emerge from this goat roping, it's that biological warfare is exceptionally inexpensive to wage and oh so easy to deny. This has almost certainly not been lost on President Xi, or the Central Committee. It may well be that future hegemony will not hinge on military might or financial gerrymandering, but on viruses and vaccines. The rest of the world is far, far behind the People's Republic of China in the building of chimeras from coronavirus forebears. Not only that but the world's only reservoir of the old SARS core--the horseshoe bat--resides only within the caves in the Yunnan province. This is not a good situation.

BUT, in order to understand the full magnitude of the problem, you absolutely must couple this with the fact that 83% of the precursors of the medications supplied to the U.S. (and likely as high to the UK and Europe) are . . . made in China. It is so pathetic that if you went to get penicillin in the U.S. and absolutely insisted on taking penicillin made entirely in the U.S., you'd be up the creek. But hey, it gets worse: Over 90% of all the testing kits and reagents that we use in the U.S. are also made in China. Let's see: virus, test, drug. All made in China.

This is the flu?  

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1 hour ago, Jason Martin said:

I suppose. The "cold" or flu as people call it is really a constellation of virii. I'm pretty sure influenza affects people differently. I've had the "the flu" on two continents, it never bothered me much. Whether it was specifically influenza b, or some other virus I don't know. I don't really get colds or flus. I have a particularly robust immune system. But then I'm one of those crazy ice bath people who takes vitamin d and c a lot and does yoga. I don't know if that really helps, but I "think" it helps. The key word in Placebo Effect is "effect".

Suicide rates and overdose rates are on the rise. An acquaintance of mine was just found the other day in a ditch after he fell in during a particularly strong dose of heroin.

I don't know anyone who has had covid. But I know at least one person who overdosed after losing his job...

I think you should never bother to attribute to incompetence what is better explained by malevolence. Personally I always assume malicious intent. 

People like Fauci and a lot of those in the media are the same kinds of people who buy the open on margin. They're gamblers. They're willing to risk it all on being right, because their currency is attention and respect. They just go on full tilt. In the end though, they're useful idiots. It was pretty clear from the beginning that fauci is being groomed to take the heat.

I think in the end that this was a case of "never let a good crisis go to waste."

My opinion is likely to be very unpopular, but I think people saw an opportunity to "naturally" burn down the economy and they took it. 

 

That might explain why Fauci was wrong about everything and practically no one has called that out. 

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