BB

Yale University Epidemiologist Publishes Paper on Major Benefits of Hydroxchloroquine for High-risk Outpatients. Quacksalvers like Fauci should put lives ahead of Politics

Recommended Posts

(edited)

Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk Covid-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis 

Dr. Harvey A. Risch

Published May 27, 2020

DEPARTMENT OF  CHRONIC DISEASE EPIDEMIOLOGY , YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH. 

https://academic.oup.com/aje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/aje/kwaa093/5847586

"Evidence about use of hydroxychloroquine alone, or of hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin in inpatients, is irrelevant concerning efficacy of the pair in early high-risk outpatient disease. Five studies, including two controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated significant major outpatient treatment efficacy."

HCQ administered and monitored by a doctor is extremely safe.  One has to monitor the patients electrolytes.

Time for the Charlatans in the FDA, NIH, CDC, CNN and Democratic Party need to desist with the Hate Trump mentality and  put working to save lives ahead of political power grabs. 

It's sad state of affairs we find our country in.  Very sad. 

U.S. Congress looks more like a Jerry Springer TV show than a governing legislative body with Statesman and Stateswomen. Just waiting for the fist fights to begin then Majority Leader Pelosi (D) throwing a chair at Rep McCarthy (R) in true Jerry Springer TV form. Statesmanship, Respect and Civility is nowhere to be found in the House of Representative, never to return.  

Let me ask the FDA, CDC, W.H.O. if  Hydroxychloroquine is so dangerous and can cause death shouldn't you take it off the market in the U.S. or at least issue a warning for use in treating Malaria, Lupus, and Rheumatoid Arthritis ?  HCQ is even approved by the FDA for pregnant women.

                                 _____________

 

ADDENDUM #1  5/30/20: Attached is a post by contributor ORO @oro in response to a HCQ naysayer. He summarizes the point of Dr. Risch's paper in a concise and thorough manner.  I think it's important to add here.

"The whole 2nd point of Dr. Risch's paper is that there is no such risk. The arrhythmias are not associated with increased mortality beyond the effects of chance in a sample of >300k patients

The treatment doses for rheumatic conditions and CV19 both reach the same final blood serum levels. The rhuematic treatment does so slowly, the CV19 does it more rapidly.

The constant attempts of the officialdom of the medical establishment to shoot down the one known treatment to save lives is an indication of political pressure to maintain crisis conditions and commercial interests of the 180 companies working on vaccines and treatments for a redundant purpose. These are despicable people working against their medical oaths. Why do you constantly adhere to their malicious nonsense? "

                                 _______________

 

ADDENDUM #2  5/30/20: Doctors lining up to condemn political W.H.O. for halting HCQ trials based on an extremely flawed study published in Lancet.

Guardian article on Lancet paper and the seriously question the integrity of the alleged database from Dr. Desai's Surgisphere Corp.  Dr.Desai previously worked for NCH and reportedly resigned in February.  NCH would not discuss Dr Desai's departure.   Dr. Desai's promotes several Surgisphere products including a Covid-19 diagnostic kit which is sold on Amazon. 

Dr. Desai's Surgisphere Corp will not or can not verify the accuracy of the database or the source of the database.  Several Austrailian Hospitals Dr.Desai mentioned as a source have denied ever talking to him.  

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/disputed-hydroxychloroquine-study-brings-scrutiny-to-surgisphere-67595

Dr. Kaur continues trial

https://mobile.twitter.com/dockaurG/status/1265653536127422464

Doctor Vliet

"Waiting until you are in the ICU is like installing home locks and alarm system after burglars have invaded, vandalized your home, and stolen all your valuables,” Vliet added.

 

 

Edited by BLA
  • Great Response! 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BLA said:

U.S. Congress looks more like a Jerry Springer TV show than a governing legislative body with Statesman and Stateswomen. 

Let me ask the FDA, CDC, W.H.O. if  Hydroxychloroquine is so dangerous and can cause death shouldn't you take it off the market or at least issue a warning for use in treating Malaria, Lupus, and Rheumatoid Arthritis ?  HCQ is even approved by the FDA for pregnant women.

 

As apposed to reality TV? :)

That is a very silly argument.  Many medicines are very dangerous; it is a balance between risk and benefit.   

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

20 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

As apposed to reality TV? :)

That is a very silly argument.  Many medicines are very dangerous; it is a balance between risk and benefit.   

 

 

 

So you are saying that one should risk fatal heart failure and use Hydroxychloroquine for arthritis , when you can take a myriad of other arthritic prescriptions. 

Or

If you are a pregnant women you should risk your and your baby's lives because the FDA NOW says HCQ is very dangerous and rather than reversing their former approval of HCQ for pregnant women the FDA should let Pregnant women risk mother and child life.  

It's alright for pregnant women to take HCQ according to the FDA, but Trump is risking his life taking the therapy according to the FDA and Nancy Pelosi amongst others.

Or 

If you are High Risk outpatient showing initial  Covid symptoms you should not take HCQ with only a 0.9/100,000 chance of adverse heart condition.Rather you recommend these high risk individuals be infirmed as an inpatient where those that are put on a ventilator have a 90% chance of dying.  

I don't follow your logic.

Hillary lost .  GET OVER IT.  It's been 3 1/2 years.  Dump on Trump all you want.  I do.  Just don't risk Covid patient lives for political power.  

Thats Shameful. 

 

Edited by BLA
  • Like 4
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

12 minutes ago, BLA said:

So you are saying that one should risk fatal heat failure and use Hydroxychloroquine for arthritis , when you can take a myriad of other arthritic prescriptions. 

Or

If you are a pregnant women risk your and your baby's lives because the FDA NOW says HCQ is very dangerous. 

Or 

If you are High Risk outpatient showing initial  Covid symptoms with 0.9/100,000 chance of a heart attack you should rather be informed as an in patient where those that go on a ventilator have a 90% chance of dying.  

I don't follow your logic.

Hilary lost .  GET OVER IT.  It's been 3 1/2 years.  Dump on Trump all you want.  I do.  Just don't risk Covid patient lives for political power.  Shameful. 

 

I said none of that, read what I wrote not your preconceived notions.

I don't even live in the US and never cared about Hilary, personally I wanted Sanders. Yes, I don't like trump.

 

My point was that medicines can be dangerous.  This paper says they need electrolyte monitoring,  that means frequent blood tests, almost certainly regular ECGs. This stuff is far more dangerous than over-the-counter drugs which themselves kill plenty of people.  Look at how many people die from acetaminophen (Tylenol) each year.

Handing out HCQ like candy is likely to kill more than it saves if the virus is so mild as many people here are convinced.   Risk versus reward...

Edited by Enthalpic
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

As apposed to reality TV? :)

That is a very silly argument.  Many medicines are very dangerous; it is a balance between risk and benefit.   

 

 

 

"As apposed to reality TV?"

Can you believe Hillary lost the Presidency to a Reality TV personality ?

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

 

.  .  .  .  .  .  personally I wanted Sanders. Yes, I don't like trump.

Handing out HCQ like candy is likely to kill more than it saves if the virus is so mild as many people here are convinced.   Risk versus reward...

"Handing out like candy"?

Nobody condones that .

 It's to be prescribed by and with doctor supervision.  Monitoring the patients electrolytes and heart are important.  We are losing 10,000 patients a week world wide now.  HCQ could reduce that number substantially. 

 

Edited by BLA
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

10 minutes ago, BLA said:

Like candy ? Nobody condones that .

 It's to be prescribed by and with doctor supervision.  Monitoring the patients electrolytes and heart are important.  We are losing 10,000 patients a week now.  HCQ could reduce that number substantially. 

 

Fair enough.  I have no problem with responsible usage.  I don't like it when people overestimate its effectiveness or safety for political purposes.

 

Many here don't believe the 10,000/week number, yet, for some reason think they need HCQ...  Why do you need PPE and HCQ if the virus is some conspiracy?

Edited by Enthalpic
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

.  .  .  .  .  

Handing out HCQ like candy is likely to kill more than it saves if the virus is so mild as many people here are convinced.   Risk versus reward...

It is mild for 90% of the population

Read  Dr. Harvey A. Risch paper  .  .  

Read my comments .  .  .  .. 

Take note of the words " for high risk outpatients" at early signs of symptoms.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

I said none of that, read what I wrote not your preconceived notions.

I don't even live in the US and never cared about Hilary, personally I wanted Sanders. Yes, I don't like trump.

 

My point was that medicines can be dangerous.  This paper says they need electrolyte monitoring,  that means frequent blood tests, almost certainly regular ECGs. This stuff is far more dangerous than over-the-counter drugs which themselves kill plenty of people.  Look at how many people die from acetaminophen (Tylenol) each year.

Handing out HCQ like candy is likely to kill more than it saves if the virus is so mild as many people here are convinced.   Risk versus reward...

The whole 2nd point of Dr. Risch's paper is that there is no such risk. The arrhythmias are not associated with increased mortality beyond the effects of chance in a sample of >300k patients

The treatment doses for rheumatic conditions and CV19 both reach the same final blood serum levels. The rhuematic treatment does so slowly, the CV19 does it more rapidly.

The constant attempts of the officialdom of the medical establishment to shoot down the one known treatment to save lives is an indication of political pressure to maintain crisis conditions and commercial interests of the 180 companies working on vaccines and treatments for a redundant purpose. These are despicable people working against their medical oaths. Why do you constantly adhere to their malicious nonsense?

 

  • Like 1
  • Great Response! 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, BLA said:

"As apposed to reality TV?"

Can you believe Hillary lost the Presidency to a Reality TV personality ?

She actually lost to a businessman...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BLA is after Enthalpic's goat, Douglas.  And Enthalpic doesn't like to give up his goat, as you can imagine.  Bless his little heart.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Handing out HCQ like candy is likely to kill more than it saves if the virus is so mild as many people here are convinced.   Risk versus reward...

Poppycock, you are inventing garbage again.  AGAIN.  

Nobody is handing out HCQ like candy.

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I think I found HCQ in my Skittles...

I'm going out to buy some Skittles now.  Chat later....

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, BLA said:

"As apposed to reality TV?"

Can you believe Hillary lost the Presidency to a Reality TV personality ?

And not even an eloquent one at that. Trump is more like the sledgehammer used for driving finish nails and you gotta love that about him. I love that our president doesn't mince words like all the rest did. Slam 'em in the face with a rock, not talk quietly and try to sooth. Screw politicians today, none of them have the cajones to open their mouths and say what needs to be said... Helliary is nothing more than an old washed up twat goblin corrupted cunt anyway. I would frame a picture of her hanging by the neck on a tree branch and hang it on my foyer wall....

And it is sad that a man with NO experience has done more for this country in 3 years than all the politicians combined over the last 30 years have been able to accomplish collectively, and most of them have been there for that 30 years. And everyone is supposed to believe that all of a sudden Joe has all the answers. After over 30 years holding public office he woke up one day and had an epiphany. His only answers are a mirror of Helliary's, as much money in my pocket no matter what the means or who gets screwed.....

  • Like 1
  • Great Response! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Poppycock, you are inventing garbage again.  AGAIN.  

Nobody is handing out HCQ like candy.

Thats him though, always on the dark side. What if.....

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

... Helliary is nothing more than an old washed up twat goblin corrupted cunt anyway. I would frame a picture of her hanging by the neck on a tree branch and hang it on my foyer wall....

 

A little hard on the Helliary critique. No ?

 

😀

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

And not even an eloquent one at that. Trump is more like the sledgehammer used for driving finish nails and you gotta love that about him. I love that our president doesn't mince words like all the rest did. Slam 'em in the face with a rock, not talk quietly and try to sooth. Screw politicians today, none of them have the cajones to open their mouths and say what needs to be said... Helliary is nothing more than an old washed up twat goblin corrupted cunt anyway. I would frame a picture of her hanging by the neck on a tree branch and hang it on my foyer wall....

And it is sad that a man with NO experience has done more for this country in 3 years than all the politicians combined over the last 30 years have been able to accomplish collectively, and most of them have been there for that 30 years. And everyone is supposed to believe that all of a sudden Joe has all the answers. After over 30 years holding public office he woke up one day and had an epiphany. His only answers are a mirror of Helliary's, as much money in my pocket no matter what the means or who gets screwed.....

Sledgehammer yes I get that, personally a would call him a cleaver...One must admit there is not to much left of 8 yrs of a social warriors legacy. 

What the far left...leftovers greatest fear is the fact that....he was elected just to do that. Cleave/purge the socialist agenda. 

To think American citizens have forgotten that is uberism at its finest. Granted they have created chaos and disruptions since Trump won on that agenda..Soon the messaging of the Democratic party of the last 4 yrs of anarchy and deception will be portrayed...now that will be a sledgehammer event...and of course there response will be the Russians made us do it....

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Poppycock, you are inventing garbage again.  AGAIN.  

Nobody is handing out HCQ like candy.

Read the whole thread, I wrote I have no problem with responsible usage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

11 hours ago, 0R0 said:

The whole 2nd point of Dr. Risch's paper is that there is no such risk. The arrhythmias are not associated with increased mortality beyond the effects of chance in a sample of >300k patients

The treatment doses for rheumatic conditions and CV19 both reach the same final blood serum levels. The rhuematic treatment does so slowly, the CV19 does it more rapidly.

The constant attempts of the officialdom of the medical establishment to shoot down the one known treatment to save lives is an indication of political pressure to maintain crisis conditions and commercial interests of the 180 companies working on vaccines and treatments for a redundant purpose. These are despicable people working against their medical oaths. Why do you constantly adhere to their malicious nonsense?

 

I looked up the HCQ half life, it takes a very long time to reach effective concentrations so it needs this faster ramp rate.  Do not cite any safety data that used old Rx guidelines to demonstrate safety of an alternate dosing schedule (the dose makes the poison).  The ramp-on / ramp-off is very important part of the safety of many drugs even with the same maximum serum concentrations.  Even the I.V. push rate / time-release of a single dose can play a big difference in the safety profile / side effects.

The paper says you need to do monitoring that in itself admits there is serious safety concerns.

 

I already have wrote repeatedly, in multiple threads, that I have no problem with responsible usage of HCQ.   I also said I would take it personally if it were prescribed (but not as a prophylactic).

My issue, once again, is exaggerating the benefits and downplaying the risks.  

 

You understand that pro-HCQ camp is VERY politically motivated, correct?  If trump disciples can convince everyone this stuff is a highly-safe miracle drug they can justify ignoring the current situation.

 

Edited by Enthalpic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 5/29/2020 at 10:55 AM, BLA said:

 in response to a HCQ naysayer.

 

 

I am not a naysayer.   I never said anywhere not to use it; I just say use it responsibly and don't make it out to be something it is not (a miracle).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

I am not a naysayer.   I never said anywhere not to use it; I just say use it responsibly and don't make it out to be something it is not (a miracle).

It never was presented as a miracle nor a cure. What do we have to lose was stated. From there it became a political weapon...and lost its meaningful application as a intervention therapy.

The message of no hope vs hope. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

14 hours ago, 0R0 said:

The whole 2nd point of Dr. Risch's paper is that there is no such risk. The arrhythmias are not associated with increased mortality beyond the effects of chance in a sample of >300k patients

The ending of the abstract reads:

"cardiac arrhythmias attributable to the medications 47/100,000 users, of which estimated mortality is <20%, 9/100,000 users, compared to the 10,000 Americans now dying each week. "

 

That's 9 out of 100,000 people dead from the drug alone  (38 survive the event).

Risk versus reward.  He is saying 9 dead per 100,000 treated is OK if it cuts down on the 10,000/week. 

If you give it to all cases:

9/100,000 (1,809,885 cases ) = 163 deaths from the drug alone, not bad.

 

If you give it to all adults:

9/100,000 (209,128,094  adults) = 18,822 deaths from the drug if wildly used as a prophylactic.  Hence Rx only.

   

Of course you like what this guy says about the drug, but don't accept his 10,000/week number.  Is he part of the conspiracy or not? Hmmm... Do you accept his risk:reward analysis if you don't think he understands the risks?

 

Edited by Enthalpic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

The ending of the abstract reads:

"cardiac arrhythmias attributable to the medications 47/100,000 users, of which estimated mortality is <20%, 9/100,000 users, compared to the 10,000 Americans now dying each week. "

 

That's 9 out of 100,000 people dead from the drug alone  (38 survive the event).

Risk versus reward.  He is saying 9 dead per 100,000 treated is OK if it cuts down on the 10,000/week. 

If you give it to all cases:

9/100,000 (1,809,885 cases ) = 163 deaths from the drug alone, not bad.

 

If you give it to all adults:

9/100,000 (209,128,094  adults) = 18,822 deaths from the drug if wildly used as a prophylactic.  Hence Rx only.

   

Of course you like what this guy says about the drug, but don't accept his 10,000/week number.  Is he part of the conspiracy or not? Hmmm... Do you accept his risk:reward analysis if you don't think he understands the risks?

 

Why are you giving it to all adults? Some doctor you would make.

Straw man argument. The protocol is to give it to symptomatic patients in the high risk group by age or comorbidities..

You have a 25% of getting cancer in your lifetime, would you start on chemo and radiation now in order to prevent it?

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

1 hour ago, 0R0 said:

Why are you giving it to all adults? Some doctor you would make.

Straw man argument. The protocol is to give it to symptomatic patients in the high risk group by age or comorbidities..

You have a 25% of getting cancer in your lifetime, would you start on chemo and radiation now in order to prevent it?

I said "if you give" but I knew you would call that out.  This forum fails to understand thought experiments; just because I mention something does not mean I support it.  Food for thought.

No, I won't take drugs for a disease I don't have, I mentioned somewhere above I would not take HCQ as a prophylactic.  Trump will take HCQ, and probably an antibiotic, for an infection he does not have.

Honestly, if its effectiveness is better demonstrated I could see giving almost everyone a dose upon admission if they demonstrate COVID symptoms.   Zinc is probably the key and is very, very safe and should be taken by everyone - hell add it to the water. 

 

Edited by Enthalpic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.