Enough is Enough...

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

7 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

@El Nikko I just have written about my first hand experience.

After the fall of authoritarian socialism in Poland in 1989 all the monuments that related to anything of that era were destroyed or moved to storage.

Later all the places that had names even remotely related to communism were renamed. No single such item, even the smallest one is left in Poland.

Douglas said that I cannot compare experience of Poland with slavery and I agree with him.

Slavery was much, much worse than life in communist Poland, it is something that cannot be compared.

In this context the current actions of descendants of slaves in US is something I really can understand.

There should be no single place or monument of any person that was an official backer of slavery or that fought for the case of slavery like confederate treacherous soldiers.

It is a shame for the whole United States to have any such monument or any place commemorating slavery.

Before these protests, as non-American I have not even known that such monuments can exist in US.

I hope they would be quickly destroyed/ moved to storage and places renamed.

It is high time to stop glorification of slavery in US.

4 out of 7 of the faces on US currency belong to slave owners or slave traders. 

The petition to Obama when he was president Got a whopping 9 supporters to change our currency, perhaps to Susan B. Anthony, because we all know how well that went. 

Yep, our founding fathers had slaves, but that was nothing compared to Malthus, who felt that Ireland's population needed to be starved into non existence so the entire island could be turned over to grazing for pasture land. The British were worse, but I don't fault any Brits today for the sins of their forefathers. 

I've already posted the quote from the English bankers to their American counterparts about slavery, and how it was obviously inferior to serfdom. You have to care and feed a slave, but a serf is left to fend for himself, starving (as the Irish did during the potato famine) while exporting record levels of food! 

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

7 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

@El Nikko I just have written about my first hand experience.

After the fall of authoritarian socialism in Poland in 1989 all the monuments that related to anything of that era were destroyed or moved to storage.

Later all the places that had names even remotely related to communism were renamed. No single such item, even the smallest one is left in Poland.

Douglas said that I cannot compare experience of Poland with slavery and I agree with him.

Slavery was much, much worse than life in communist Poland, it is something that cannot be compared.

In this context the current actions of descendants of slaves in US is something I really can understand.

There should be no single place or monument of any person that was an official backer of slavery or that fought for the case of slavery like confederate treacherous soldiers.

It is a shame for the whole United States to have any such monument or any place commemorating slavery.

Before these protests, as non-American I have not even known that such monuments can exist in US.

I hope they would be quickly destroyed/ moved to storage and places renamed.

It is high time to stop glorification of slavery in US.

Millions died in the holodomor of Ukraine in what was a deliberate act of starvation, I'd say that was much worse but treating people baddly is bad no matter who does it and to who.

No one glorifies slavery, you would have to search very hard for someone that does. It's up to people how they want to interpret them but I don't agree with erasing history no matter how uncomfortable. What next, removing German WW2 aircraft from museums because they were literally the tools used to conquer Europe?

I thought this was whole thing started over supposed police brutality...now the narrative has changed.

I've said this before, it always falls on deaf ears but if people want to see a backlash then keep this up because there will be an increasing number of whites who start to feel like they are being targeted for their race and we know where that will lead. You've seen the football hooligans in London? Well football violence was a national sport in the UK until 25 years ago, there are plenty of whites here who feel forgotten and the muslim grooming gang scandal which were allowed to operate for 20 years unchecked by the police is still very raw in people's memories the number of victims is at least 100,000 and that is the lower estimate. They ignored the plight of these young girls because they were scared of being called racist and more likely because they just didn't care about 'white trash'.

All of this serves to increase racial tensions not to pacify it and things will just get worse especially if we do have a really bad recession and there are less resources to go around.

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

Millions died in the holodomor of Ukraine in what was a deliberate act of starvation, I'd say that was much worse but treating people baddly is bad no matter who does it and to who.

No one glorifies slavery, you would have to search very hard for someone that does. It's up to people how they want to interpret them but I don't agree with erasing history no matter how uncomfortable. What next, removing German WW2 aircraft from museums because they were literally the tools used to conquer Europe?

I thought this was whole thing started over supposed police brutality...now the narrative has changed.

I've said this before, it always falls on deaf ears but if people want to see a backlash then keep this up because there will be an increasing number of whites who start to feel like they are being targeted for their race and we know where that will lead. You've seen the football hooligans in London? Well football violence was a national sport in the UK until 25 years ago, there are plenty of whites here who feel forgotten and the muslim grooming gang scandal which were allowed to operate for 20 years unchecked by the police is still very raw in people's memories the number of victims is at least 100,000 and that is the lower estimate. They ignored the plight of these young girls because they were scared of being called racist and more likely because they just didn't care about 'white trash'.

All of this serves to increase racial tensions not to pacify it and things will just get worse especially if we do have a really bad recession and there are less resources to go around.

 

Might even be cause to bring out the olive green machines that go BANG!  Slap around a few of the big mouths that don't have as many olive green machines that go BANG!  Put things back into balance and shut up the weaklings for a few more decades.  While they're at it they might want to exercise those hunks of grey floating metal that go BANG!  Sure can have some fun in the neighborhood with those!  Then launch a new Cold War to keep everyone respectful.  Hey, it's all possible!

[BradleyPNW + 282]

1 hour ago, El Nikko said:

I've said this before, it always falls on deaf ears but if people want to see a backlash then keep this up because there will be an increasing number of whites who start to feel like they are being targeted for their race and we know where that will lead.

It will lead to increasingly favorable public opinion polls in favor of the Black Lives Matter movement. 

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

You posted two 'polls'

The first suggests roughly 60% support in the first and 28% in the second.

Just wondering if you noticed this?

I wouldn't be surprised with the 28% especially given the media support and of course if asked in a quick phone call if you agree that black lives matter most people would say yes so I question polls like this.

In your second 'graph' for some inexplicable reason Charlottesville has been entered as if it's some kind of really important event related to BLM violence. As a wise old man once asked "What has that got to do with the price of fish?"

[Marcin2 + 725]

5 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

4 out of 7 of the faces on US currency belong to slave owners or slave traders. 

The petition to Obama when he was president Got a whopping 9 supporters to change our currency, perhaps to Susan B. Anthony, because we all know how well that went. 

Yep, our founding fathers had slaves, but that was nothing compared to Malthus, who felt that Ireland's population needed to be starved into non existence so the entire island could be turned over to grazing for pasture land. The British were worse, but I don't fault any Brits today for the sins of their forefathers. 

I've already posted the quote from the English bankers to their American counterparts about slavery, and how it was obviously inferior to serfdom. You have to care and feed a slave, but a serf is left to fend for himself, starving (as the Irish did during the potato famine) while exporting record levels of food! 

 

1. Please do not distort my comment.

I think the statues of all so called „confederate soldiers” should be removed and all these places renamed. 

2.Nobody blames Thomas Jefferson or George Washington for owning or trading slaves.

3. It would be good if Andrew Jackson is swaped with anybody that is black on 20 note. Martin L King ? , Barack Obama ? But it has to be somebody accomplished like all the current 7 persons.

4. I think the example with Ireland potato famine is not illustrating the problem of serfdom vs slavery.

I can always bring India, where each and every year since at least 1900 over 1 million people die out of hunger/malnutrition as a fine example how bad is democracy ( even worse than slavery ).

5. Somebody have written in this thread that this demonstrations are actually illustrating the power of American society to reinvent itself. Demonstrations should be viewed through these lenses, even if mamy interest groups/political parties want to hijack them cause it is election year.

 

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

57 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

1. Please do not distort my comment.

I think the statues of all so called „confederate soldiers” should be removed and all these places renamed. 

2.Nobody blames Thomas Jefferson or George Washington for owning or trading slaves.

3. It would be good if Andrew Jackson is swaped with anybody that is black on 20 note. Martin L King ? , Barack Obama ? But it has to be somebody accomplished like all the current 7 persons.

4. I think the example with Ireland potato famine is not illustrating the problem of serfdom vs slavery.

I can always bring India, where each and every year since at least 1900 over 1 million people die out of hunger/malnutrition as a fine example how bad is democracy ( even worse than slavery ).

5. Somebody have written in this thread that this demonstrations are actually illustrating the power of American society to reinvent itself. Demonstrations should be viewed through these lenses, even if mamy interest groups/political parties want to hijack them cause it is election year.

No distortion needed, everyone can see what you wrote and if you change your version, there's still my quote of your words. 

Andrew Jackson, Really? He's on record of standing up to the white community at large in favor  of a slave. How many other southerners did this? But you're the arbiter, there in "Poland", which you oddly never talk about in the present, only the past, almost as if you're going off lessons from "some" school?

4. You couldn't be more wrong. Ireland is the textbook case of serfdom. Half the population of the island died from a man-made disaster. But you won't address that, probably because you'd have to acknowledge the communist atrocities of a similar ilk. 

India? A million sounds like a lot, but that's out of 1.5 billion give or take. What if 15,000 die a year in Poland? They probably do, about the same percentage as India. You prefer communism tovarisch? Just come out and say it, otherwise you sound like you have Alzheimer's or suffer from multiple personality disorder. 

Demonstrations are accepted in this country since before its inception. Rioting and looting are not. Under normal conditions they can be nipped in the bud, but not when no testicles can be found among the city leaders like Deblasio to deal with it. The only reason the police can't stop the problem is City Hall. Will the idiots get voted out? Not while they get to count the votes. Just like your hero Stalin said.  

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

^ True. The First Amendment to the Constitution allows for peaceful protests. It doesn't mention allowing burning, looting, taking over whole precincts. 

Two possibilities exist in Seattle and NYC and other places where they're trying to take over property: 1) they are successful and this spreads like a cancer across America, or 2) they get tired and run out of money and thirsty and hungry and go back to the hole they crawled out of. 

Look, one person out of a hundred is a psychopath, as defined by a functional MRI showing little to no activity in the left prefrontal cortex of the brain. The very bright psychopaths go to Wall Street. The mean ones who were abused as kids go to law enforcement. The thing that will drive one mad is a functional MRI doesn't cost all that much--maybe $6,000. I will never be able to understand why senators, judges, presidential finalists, medical students and law enforcement officers aren't required to have a functional MRI. 

I imagine the riots over George Floyd's murder has cost the country as a whole over a trillion dollars. The cost of a functional MRI to test that officer in training school would have been a drop in the bucket. 

It's not really a psychopath's fault that he or she is a psychopath: it's genetics. But if you determine the condition early enough to default that position of trust/power/money, then you've largely solved much of the problem.

However, on the other end of things, I think the masks most of these looters and rioters are wearing have led to much of the problem. No danger of being recorded by a facial recognition camera. Wear gloves to prevent the virus and presto, no fingerprints either. This is a giant Halloween show! Halloween comes but once a year. This will soon be over. 

But they can't tear down the Alamo. George P. Bush said yesterday: "Don't mess with the Alamo!" We need more of that and less of this: here's some bottled water and three vanilla lattes, can we get you anything else?

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

^ True. The First Amendment to the Constitution allows for peaceful protests. It doesn't mention allowing burning, looting, taking over whole precincts. 

Two possibilities exist in Seattle and NYC and other places where they're trying to take over property: 1) they are successful and this spreads like a cancer across America, or 2) they get tired and run out of money and thirsty and hungry and go back to the hole they crawled out of. 

Look, one person out of a hundred is a psychopath, as defined by a functional MRI showing little to no activity in the left prefrontal cortex of the brain. The very bright psychopaths go to Wall Street. The mean ones who were abused as kids go to law enforcement. The thing that will drive one mad is a functional MRI doesn't cost all that much--maybe $6,000. I will never be able to understand why senators, judges, presidential finalists, medical students and law enforcement officers aren't required to have a functional MRI. 

I imagine the riots over George Floyd's murder has cost the country as a whole over a trillion dollars. The cost of a functional MRI to test that officer in training school would have been a drop in the bucket. 

It's not really a psychopath's fault that he or she is a psychopath: it's genetics. But if you determine the condition early enough to default that position of trust/power/money, then you've largely solved much of the problem.

However, on the other end of things, I think the masks most of these looters and rioters are wearing have led to much of the problem. No danger of being recorded by a facial recognition camera. Wear gloves to prevent the virus and presto, no fingerprints either. This is a giant Halloween show! Halloween comes but once a year. This will soon be over. 

But they can't tear down the Alamo. George P. Bush said yesterday: "Don't mess with the Alamo!" We need more of that and less of this: here's some bottled water and three vanilla lattes, can we get you anything else?

Gerry we've missed you! Your perspicacity is like a breath of fresh air here. I'll leave it to the ingorant here to confuse that word for perspiration.  

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Seattle illustrates dangerous consequences of kowtowing to the mob. 

I'm in general agreement with the author, until his final paragraph. 

Quote

Until he does, the threat of violence will continue to ratchet up. Trump, like Nixon, is a wild card whose actions are unpredictable, often harsh in tone and softer in action. While many say that Trump is a combustible agent—the atomized fuel that detonates when mixed with the appropriate atmospherics—the joker card in America’s deck are the lawbreakers. For America to reclaim its place as a great country as it did after the Sixties, it must vehemently return to the rule of law. If Trump responds in kind, then he will win re-election and return to the White House. If he does not, then the reign of emboldened lawbreakers may be just getting started. 

 

Many who Trump might consider allies are pushing for him to act, with force. There is zero upside to this response, as I said on this site weeks ago. Even if he succeeds in getting the cockroaches to scurry back to their holes, someone is likely to get hurt. Anyone getting hurt will be blamed on Trump.

Meanwhile since Obama cleaned house with the upper echelon of the US military, firing over 150 generals and admirals who weren't "politically aligned", Trump is actually left with the leftmost wing of the military remaining. This means that if he orders them to deploy, they will either outright refuse, citing posse commitatus, or they will purposely sabotage their engagement, perhaps "accidentally" loading lethal rounds instead of rubber bullets so they can foment another Kent State. Then expect a military coup, "for the good of the country". At that point, democracy is over here. 

Anyone with a spine, like Flynn, was fired by Obama. Obama was so enraged that Trump brought Flynn back into the fold, that he directed the DOJ and their underlings, the FBI, to destroy him. It almost worked. Flynn was guilty of no crime at all when the FBI set their perjury trap. The pretense given, that he was somehow guilty of the "crime" of dealing with a foreign power as a "civilian", is laughable on its face. He was the incoming National Security advisor, a cabinet position and no "civilian" cutting deals with foreign Powers. 

The entire fiasco was a setup by the Obama administration, including the 11th hour sanctions against the RUSSIANS for supposedly "interfering" in our election. Pure projection, since we now all know it was Obama's party that invited the RUSSIANS to interfere! In a real democracy, with real legitimate law enforcement and real judges, heads would roll. But this is America, where the Left has been cooking the books for decades, and the last thing they'll allow is an honest audit. They'll burn this country down, first. 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 6/11/2020 at 2:58 PM, frankfurter said:

I wonder what your reaction will be if and when the US "protestors" raise the flag of some foreign country? 

 If you were actually paying attention you would have see many flags from many different countries in the protest crowds, not the looters. The answer to your question is ‘no one gives a rip who's waving what’ and life goes on....

Edited June 15, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

3 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Look, one person out of a hundred is a psychopath

Thought is was around 5%?

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

5 hours ago, El Nikko said:

The first suggests roughly 60% support in the first and 28% in the second.

The second chart is the increase in support from the beginning date, not percentages of pubic approval overall. ie. 51% to 49%

I've seen that graph a few times these past couple weeks, it's a weird way to graph increases in public approval. A comparison of approval now vs. then would be easier to understand at a glance.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing

[BradleyPNW + 282]

6 hours ago, El Nikko said:

You posted two 'polls'

The first suggests roughly 60% support in the first and 28% in the second.

Just wondering if you noticed this?

I wouldn't be surprised with the 28% especially given the media support and of course if asked in a quick phone call if you agree that black lives matter most people would say yes so I question polls like this.

In your second 'graph' for some inexplicable reason Charlottesville has been entered as if it's some kind of really important event related to BLM violence. As a wise old man once asked "What has that got to do with the price of fish?"

Second graph is net favorable. 

Charlottesville 2017 was the white nationalist rally where Donald said there were very fine people on both sides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
 

Edited June 15, 2020 by BradleyPNW

[SUZNV + 1,197]

For comparison, we need to consider various aspects, no crimes are as worst as genocides. 

-Slavery condition was as bad as people in prisons. You don't have freedom to wander around, only the slave didn't have the choice while the prisoners may have before entering the prisons (no matter guilty or not) and don't expect to get out of a prison, so a slavery condition is equivalent to a life sentence in prison. I guess slaves can have sexes while prisoners can't. The prisoners lost their freedom they used to enjoy while a born in slavery did't have  the taste of freedom.

-Both had fates & treatments depending on each slave owner  or regimes policy and no control of their own life.  Both didn't have control to for family visit or reunion so it depended on individual situation. A slave was an asset, when an owner killed a slave, he lost an asset and the labor of that asset. In Communism regimes, they lost nothing from killing a "bad" comrade. They were both the most vulnerable in famine time.

Slaves were whipped to work hard while communism collective farms were not very famous for productivity and people more enjoyed "work life balance".  But generally US slaves didn't suffer much  from famine like many other countries because of some bad decisions. 

-Social context, the communism countries after 1945 were in much "better" conditions than many countries in 18th-19th centuries. 1945 was more than 80 years after the Civil War.

If take war times into account, US had only 2 big wars inside itself : the US revolutionary war and the civil war and almost no famine. So even in slavery or not, US people enjoyed more peaceful  time than people else where and didn't need to worry about food.

In modern time, no matter of your skin colors, has US citizen's rights by birth and English as a native language is a good starting point than many other immigrants or many citizens in other countries. US is the best country that any poor people want to migrate to and start from 0, as long as you have the will to work.Why should we keep lamenting about slavery in history. Not many people in the world can enjoy their life in 18th-19th centuries. 

 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

1 hour ago, BradleyPNW said:

Second graph is net favorable. 

Charlottesville 2017 was the white nationalist rally where Donald said there were very fine people on both sides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite_the_Right_rally
 

Can I say there were very bad people in both sides?

[Marcin2 + 725]

8 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

No distortion needed, everyone can see what you wrote and if you change your version, there's still my quote of your words. 

Andrew Jackson, Really? He's on record of standing up to the white community at large in favor  of a slave. How many other southerners did this? But you're the arbiter, there in "Poland", which you oddly never talk about in the present, only the past, almost as if you're going off lessons from "some" school?

4. You couldn't be more wrong. Ireland is the textbook case of serfdom. Half the population of the island died from a man-made disaster. But you won't address that, probably because you'd have to acknowledge the communist atrocities of a similar ilk. 

India? A million sounds like a lot, but that's out of 1.5 billion give or take. What if 15,000 die a year in Poland? They probably do, about the same percentage as India. You prefer communism tovarisch? Just come out and say it, otherwise you sound like you have Alzheimer's or suffer from multiple personality disorder. 

Demonstrations are accepted in this country since before its inception. Rioting and looting are not. Under normal conditions they can be nipped in the bud, but not when no testicles can be found among the city leaders like Deblasio to deal with it. The only reason the police can't stop the problem is City Hall. Will the idiots get voted out? Not while they get to count the votes. Just like your hero Stalin said.  

1. Serfdom was bad and slavery was bad. I just do not like you all guys indirectly defend slavery. „ everybody was doing this”’ „their life was not that bad, not like serfs as we American take care of our belongings”. Defending slavery is just plain wrong. It is a terrible concept. The same as defending Pres Jackson.

2. I am in Warsaw at the moment. You have real problem with tagging people. I think you were born 25 years too late, you would have been a very good jihadist of senator McCarthy.

[NickW + 2,714]

We had a counter demonstration in London on Saturday as many people pi$$ed off with the vandalism of Monuments like the Cenotaph and Churchill Statue and the London Police Farce just standing there watching

Of course the UK's Scummedia portrayed it as gangs of far right extremists descending on London (there were a few aholes but it was mainly ex military and joe public) 

What was the result for the Scummedia? 

 

Pictures of racist white supremacists beating up innocent peaceful BLM protesters - nope

Pictures of women police being set upon by skin head thugs - nope

large objects being hurled  at police horses - nope.

 

All they have is a bloke in shorts and a Fred Perry teeshirt* taking a piss near a Memorial Plaque (Keith Palmer - murdered by ROP Terrorist) 

 

* Very typical British white working class casual wear. 

 

[frankfurter + 562]

On 6/14/2020 at 9:20 AM, El Nikko said:

Why???

You should be very familiar with the history of the Soviet communists who did unbelievably despicable things, the holodomor for one and the gulags.

Or is the suffering of people so much worse just because of the colour of the victim's skin?

This is just clown world levels of embarrasing, not your reply per sec, but all of it...the virtue signalling is beyond a joke at this point. There's barely a race on the planet that didn't engage in some form of slavery and repulsive oppresion of their fellow people but there's pretty much only one race/group that did everything they could (late admittedly) to stamp it out.

Feel free to prostrate yourselves on the alter of political correctness and see where it gets you, you can hand over everything to 'the other' and no one will give you an ounce of respect for it...most likely just hold their hands out and demand everything else you have.

true. Slavery dates back to Biblical times, as in Leviticus 24.  Sadly, certain orthodox people regard the entirety of Leviticus to be their guiding law today. 

Regarding abolition, note...

(1) The buying and selling of slaves was made illegal across the British Empire in 1807, but owning slaves was permitted until it was outlawed completely in 1833, beginning a process where from 1834 slaves became indentured "apprentices" to their former owners until emancipation was achieved for the majority by 1840 and for remaining exceptions by 1843.  The British, who then were devout Christians, abolished slavery for moral reasons.

(2) Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, effective January 1, 1862.  Lincoln was indifferent to slavery, as noted earlier via his letter to a local media.  His proclamation was made not for moral reasons, but for reasons of war strategy: he reasoned if slaves could be set free, this would weaken the South considerably, and induce slaves to rebel against their masters. 

 

[crazy trip + 90]

Every civilization since the beginning of mankind have enslaved their fellow humans. Western Civilization was built on the backs of slaves, as were the civilizations of the Near, Middle and Far East, including the great civilizations that have come and gone on the African continent. 
 Using words like right or wrong to try to describe the thought that it is ok for one man to own another doesn’t even come close to getting to the deep underlying “reasons” that have made human bondage acceptable from the beginning of humankind. I feel it is quite safe to say that regardless of our race creed or color our ancestors have either been the enslavers or the enslaved.
 Slavery in all of its horrid forms exists today across the globe. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by crazy trip

[El Nikko + 2,145]

7 hours ago, SUZNV said:

Can I say there were very bad people in both sides?

Can I say spot the Fed 😂

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 hour ago, crazy trip said:

Slavery in all of its horrid forms exists today across the globe.

Also inside New York City, specifically.   It remains a big problem for the police.

What happens is that these pigs from the third world show up as diplomats with the United Nations, and they bring along their "servants", typically girls and women,  who are slaves.  the slaves get paid nothing, they get beaten, the abuse is just awful, and every now and then one runs away and into the arms of some New Yorker who calls the police, who show up and recognize the signs of a slave to a diplomat.  They take her to the station, bring in an interpreter, and then go to arrest the abuser - an arrest that fails because of diplomatic immunity. 

At that point the State Department asks the Ambassador of the offender's country to waive diplomatic immunity so the offender can be arrested and tried in a US court.  that is typically refused.  The "diplomat" is then given 24 hours to leave America.  the slave stays, is given a special visa and social services is brought in to get her rehabilitated. 

No remorse is ever shown by any Ambassador of any of these countries for the slavery that their diplomats engage in.  Outrageous?  You bet.  Shameful?  You bet.  Do they do it anyway?  But of course.  Should those countries be banned from the USA, their diplomatic status permanently and irrevocably revoked?  But of course.  Does anyone actually do this?  Nope. 

At least in America, the local police will do something ab out it.  Other countries confronted with slaves in their midst?  Not a chance.  Not even in Britain, that bastion of liberty. Figure maybe, Belgium?  Ha!

[SUZNV + 1,197]

6 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

1. Serfdom was bad and slavery was bad. I just do not like you all guys indirectly defend slavery. „ everybody was doing this”’ „their life was not that bad, not like serfs as we American take care of our belongings”. Defending slavery is just plain wrong. It is a terrible concept. The same as defending Pres Jackson.

2. I am in Warsaw at the moment. You have real problem with tagging people. I think you were born 25 years too late, you would have been a very good jihadist of senator McCarthy.

Slavery and serfdom hardship are relative and depend on situations and time frame. A peaceful slavery or serfdom are more desirable for some while freedom are more desirable for others and that why many people risked their life for revolutions or Independent. I am pointing out in worst case scenarios, slavery in US in 18th-19th centuries were far better off than freeman in famine or facing the hell of wars or serfdom else where at the same timeframe, where people was so desperate to risk their life for revolutions.

You cannot compares lifestyle for Communism in Eastern Europe in 1945 to 1990 (where both US and Soviet Union using rebuilding Europe as a competition for Capitalism to ) to Slavery in 19th centuries and why should you always use Europe as a central metric for everything while they don't have a common standard themselves. Are you sure life in Europe at that periods of many wars & revolutions  were much better than working in US slave camps without worrying about a famine? Or in any other Colonials countries?

Slavery means you don't have the power to control your life, your foods, your assets or change your employers/owners at will or staying with your family and in many non slavery situations people cannot have control of these things either.

None of us have a taste of US slavery in 19th century so If we compare with non slavery life around the world at that time is much more relevant than comparing to our time or slavery in Ancient time. It is by no meaning "indirectly defending slavery".

In many communism countries uprising  from serfdom, they chop up landlords heads and the definition of landlord may mean you have a small peace of land while the end of slavery in US we didn't have that scenario. Nowhere US slavery could be comparable to genocides either and at least on the US "land of slavery hell" didn't have any genocide and genocides happened 100 years after the last slavery which in turn made them much more barbaric.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by SUZNV

[El Nikko + 2,145]

6 hours ago, NickW said:

We had a counter demonstration in London on Saturday as many people pi$$ed off with the vandalism of Monuments like the Cenotaph and Churchill Statue and the London Police Farce just standing there watching

Of course the UK's Scummedia portrayed it as gangs of far right extremists descending on London (there were a few aholes but it was mainly ex military and joe public) 

What was the result for the Scummedia? 

 

Pictures of racist white supremacists beating up innocent peaceful BLM protesters - nope

Pictures of women police being set upon by skin head thugs - nope

large objects being hurled  at police horses - nope.

 

All they have is a bloke in shorts and a Fred Perry teeshirt* taking a piss near a Memorial Plaque (Keith Palmer - murdered by ROP Terrorist) 

 

* Very typical British white working class casual wear. 

 

and even our 'conservative' leader throws us under the bus.

I'd say we're on our own

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

6 hours ago, NickW said:

All they have is a bloke in shorts and a Fred Perry teeshirt* taking a piss near a Memorial Plaque (Keith Palmer - murdered by ROP Terrorist)

he's just got 2 weeks in prison for that.

Defacing war memorials is perfectly fine though