Jay McKinsey

Tesla Model 3 police cars pay for themselves faster than expected, says police chief

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The Model 3s replaced Dodge Chargers, so performance is not going to be an issue.

As for cost, Tesla has also a significant lead. The Model 3 Standard Range Plus version that they bought is a little more expensive than the Dodge Charger at ~$41,000, but they expect gas savings of about $6,000 per year, which means that the Model 3 will pay for itself over its lifetime.

They generally keep their vehicles for six years, and after they broke down the economics, they determined that they are going to save about $20,000 per car with the Model 3.

It includes not only gas savings, but the police department is also expecting some significant maintenance savings.

They expected that the electric vehicles would pay for themselves in about two years.

After having the vehicles for a few months, Bertram now believes that the return on investment can happen as fast as 19 months.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/30/tesla-model-3-police-cars-faster-roi-police-chief/

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I know you will be shocked to hear this, but the Fremont CA police department has some Teslas. They work just fine. We did have one case where an officer on a long pursuit up the interstate ran the battery dry. It turns out the prior officer had neglected to plug the car in after his shift and the guy who got it next neglected to check. No harm done: Any long pursuit out of Fremont immediately becomes a multi-jurisdiction three-ring circus, so there were a LOT of other police cars in on the deal.

It turns out that failing to check the gas is an embarrassing problem for ICE police cars, too.

The Fremont Fire department has become an international training resource for other fire departments who want to learn about EV crash response. EVs are involved in statistically fewer fires than ICEs, but the fire crews know less about them (except ours).

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Seems like the software should notify them if a car is in the parking lot and not plugged in.

I'll keep an eye out for them, I am in Fremont frequently.

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23 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Seems like the software should notify them if a car is in the parking lot and not plugged in.

I'll keep an eye out for them, I am in Fremont frequently.

It's more fun to go down to the fire training academy and look out back, if they happen to have one they've practiced on.

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4 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The Model 3s replaced Dodge Chargers, so performance is not going to be an issue.

As for cost, Tesla has also a significant lead. The Model 3 Standard Range Plus version that they bought is a little more expensive than the Dodge Charger at ~$41,000, but they expect gas savings of about $6,000 per year, which means that the Model 3 will pay for itself over its lifetime.

If the police department can make EVs work and they believe it to  be cheaper then fine - its up to them. This is an application where the main consumer objections to EVs don't apply. However, the cost analysis needs closer examination. First off, the police have pointed to cost savings in fuel but forgotten about the cost of electricity to power the car. This would be significant, although its lumped in with other costs and so not as noticeable. Energy is not free. As for maintenance costs, sure. However, the battery warranty for a Tesla is for eight years, and their performance degrades over time. New battery packs can cost up to $US7,000 to replace. That may change, of course. Given all that what is the expected resale price of the car? This is a big part of the whole-of-life analysis. Looked online and the story is that the resale price holds up well, at least over the standard 3 year lease period (nine years is a long time for a fleet car). Okay, although activists rave that EVs will become cheaper and more common soon - if that is the case then the resale price will take a hard hit. For ICEs the resale price is more predictable. Anyway, as you can see, the analysis is not as straight forward as the police hope. That said, if they want to run EVs its their problem.

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It is time for the Green Movement to address the Antifa/Socialist movement, soon there will be no funds left for law enforcement to purchase such pricey transportation...Its all about communication..soo much to do...so little time and so many issues!

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7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The Model 3s replaced Dodge Chargers, so performance is not going to be an issue.

As for cost, Tesla has also a significant lead. The Model 3 Standard Range Plus version that they bought is a little more expensive than the Dodge Charger at ~$41,000, but they expect gas savings of about $6,000 per year, which means that the Model 3 will pay for itself over its lifetime.

They generally keep their vehicles for six years, and after they broke down the economics, they determined that they are going to save about $20,000 per car with the Model 3.

It includes not only gas savings, but the police department is also expecting some significant maintenance savings.

They expected that the electric vehicles would pay for themselves in about two years.

After having the vehicles for a few months, Bertram now believes that the return on investment can happen as fast as 19 months.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/30/tesla-model-3-police-cars-faster-roi-police-chief/

I will be more impressed when the trial is over and the figures are made public, along with the opinions of the actual drivers. California gasoline is quite expensive and highly taxed so more expensive than about any other state. Electricity is not free either. 

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(edited)

22 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

I will be more impressed when the trial is over and the figures are made public, along with the opinions of the actual drivers. California gasoline is quite expensive and highly taxed so more expensive than about any other state. Electricity is not free either. 

It more than likely true, EV/Hybrids are built with much higher design tolerances. One could almost say aircraft quality construction, here in Portland the cabby's quickly caught on to the lower maintenance costs...it it pretty remarkable.

The manufactures took great pains in design and component selection early on in there development, at the same time we all paid for that extra care at one point or another. Subsidy's are now gone and the industry along with states more that probably handed out trillions with a T.

They are on there own now lets see if Musk can make it work.

I guess i should make reference to the fact both cabby's and law enforcement used crown victorias as there fleet vehicles...those cars could take a lot of abuse....The Dodge was always way back in the pack yet it was the only game in town.

Cabby's went to the Prius and were delighted law enforcement went to Explorers...Both vehicles take a pounding..

Edited by Eyes Wide Open
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2 hours ago, markslawson said:

If the police department can make EVs work and they believe it to  be cheaper then fine - its up to them. This is an application where the main consumer objections to EVs don't apply. However, the cost analysis needs closer examination. First off, the police have pointed to cost savings in fuel but forgotten about the cost of electricity to power the car. This would be significant, although its lumped in with other costs and so not as noticeable. Energy is not free. As for maintenance costs, sure. However, the battery warranty for a Tesla is for eight years, and their performance degrades over time. New battery packs can cost up to $US7,000 to replace. That may change, of course. Given all that what is the expected resale price of the car? This is a big part of the whole-of-life analysis. Looked online and the story is that the resale price holds up well, at least over the standard 3 year lease period (nine years is a long time for a fleet car). Okay, although activists rave that EVs will become cheaper and more common soon - if that is the case then the resale price will take a hard hit. For ICEs the resale price is more predictable. Anyway, as you can see, the analysis is not as straight forward as the police hope. That said, if they want to run EVs its their problem.

We have seen several stories about police departments using EVs over the years. Many urban departments need a bunch of small squad cars with not much range, and they used Nissan Leafs. The difference here is the Model 3 is a "pursuit" class vehicle.

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9 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The Model 3s replaced Dodge Chargers, so performance is not going to be an issue.

As for cost, Tesla has also a significant lead. The Model 3 Standard Range Plus version that they bought is a little more expensive than the Dodge Charger at ~$41,000, but they expect gas savings of about $6,000 per year, which means that the Model 3 will pay for itself over its lifetime.

They generally keep their vehicles for six years, and after they broke down the economics, they determined that they are going to save about $20,000 per car with the Model 3.

It includes not only gas savings, but the police department is also expecting some significant maintenance savings.

They expected that the electric vehicles would pay for themselves in about two years.

After having the vehicles for a few months, Bertram now believes that the return on investment can happen as fast as 19 months.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/30/tesla-model-3-police-cars-faster-roi-police-chief/

Sounds promising, Jay.  Good proving ground with police departments as well.  Tesla should, and might be already, give them a good deal on their toughest models.  Two year leases would also make sense, although they might incentivise them to keep a portion longer to prove the long term viability of the cruisers.

I don't think resale is that much of an issue since used ICE cruisers don't usually re-sell for much anyway.  Here is an area where Tesla could step in with transferable warranties/guarantees for the buyers of retiring cruisers, or maybe a significant discount on a new battery pack.  The police use a ton of electronics these days and that would seem to tax any car's electronics systems, and possibly especially(?) an EV, significantly. 

There are definitely ways to make these things work with police and taxi fleets, and even rental car fleets.  Fantastic proving grounds, or, where undesirable models go with steep fleet discounts when no-one else wants them (hopefully not the case with Teslas).

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18 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It more than likely true, EV/Hybrids are built with much higher design tolerances. One could almost say aircraft quality construction, here in Portland the cabby's quickly caught on to the lower maintenance costs...it it pretty remarkable.

The manufactures took great pains in design and component selection early on in there development, at the same time we all paid for that extra care at one point or another. Subsidy's are now gone and the industry along with states more that probably handed out trillions with a T.

They are on there own now lets see if Musk can make it work.

I guess i should make reference to the fact both cabby's and law enforcement used crown victorias as there fleet vehicles...those cars could take a lot of abuse....The Dodge was always way back in the pack yet it was the only game in town.

Cabby's went to the Prius and were delighted law enforcement went to Explorers...Both vehicles take a pounding..

I was always a Crown Victoria Fan. So, how do the crash tests compare between the Dodge and the Tesla? Or the Explorer and the Tesla? I am guessing that a pickup truck would run either one off the road. 

We actually went looking for a Prius when they first came out and couldn't find one to buy. I am glad. We have loved our minivans and our big Nissan NV 3500 van. 

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21 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It is time for the Green Movement to address the Antifa/Socialist movement, soon there will be no funds left for law enforcement to purchase such pricey transportation...Its all about communication..soo much to do...so little time and so many issues!

An'teefa!

 

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11 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I was always a Crown Victoria Fan. So, how do the crash tests compare between the Dodge and the Tesla? Or the Explorer and the Tesla? I am guessing that a pickup truck would run either one off the road. 

We actually went looking for a Prius when they first came out and couldn't find one to buy. I am glad. We have loved our minivans and our big Nissan NV 3500 van. 

I used to drive one of them when I worked for Aramco. Its like sitting on Sofa and driving around. 

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17 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I was always a Crown Victoria Fan. So, how do the crash tests compare between the Dodge and the Tesla? Or the Explorer and the Tesla? I am guessing that a pickup truck would run either one off the road. 

We actually went looking for a Prius when they first came out and couldn't find one to buy. I am glad. We have loved our minivans and our big Nissan NV 3500 van. 

The crown Vic and the pickups have big heavy non-crushable engines sitting in front of the passenger compartment. (When things go right in a crash, the engine is supposed to get shoved downward as it is pushed backward). The Teslas were deliberately designed with a large empty front trunk ("frunk") that adds crush space. The formal crash test results are excellent. You do trade the chance of getting hideously burned in gasoline for the chance of getting hideously electrocuted instead. I have not heard of such an accident yet.

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17 hours ago, ronwagn said:

I was always a Crown Victoria Fan. So, how do the crash tests compare between the Dodge and the Tesla? Or the Explorer and the Tesla? I am guessing that a pickup truck would run either one off the road. 

We actually went looking for a Prius when they first came out and couldn't find one to buy. I am glad. We have loved our minivans and our big Nissan NV 3500 van. 

Model 3 achieves the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by NHTSA https://www.tesla.com/blog/model-3-lowest-probability-injury-any-vehicle-ever-tested-nhtsa

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Thanks Jay, For me, that would be the number one reason to buy a Tesla! I can't believe this isn't more highly mentioned. I have mainly heard about fires onboard.

Would you compare the size to a Camry or? I realize there is a smaller model, would that equal a Civic or? 

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9 hours ago, NickW said:

I used to drive one of them when I worked for Aramco. Its like sitting on Sofa and driving around. 

They suck a lot of gasoline and really move. Not good if you are worried about that expense. I actually had a fastback Galaxy. 

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4 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Thanks Jay, For me, that would be the number one reason to buy a Tesla! I can't believe this isn't more highly mentioned. I have mainly heard about fires onboard.

Would you compare the size to a Camry or? I realize there is a smaller model, would that equal a Civic or? 

You hear about EV fires because they are newsworthy. They are statistically much less common on a miles-travelled basis than ICE fires. The typical suburban fire department responds to a lot of car fires (about 25% of all fire calls.): This may be because there are a whole lot of older ICE cars on the road, so this may not be a fair comparison. The main reason that EV fires are newsworthy is that most fire departments have no experience with them and little or no training. Fortunately, most victims who were not going to die anyway have already bailed out of both kinds of car fires.

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1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

They suck a lot of gasoline and really move. Not good if you are worried about that expense. I actually had a fastback Galaxy. 

I used to drive up to Manifa and Tanajib or down to Abqaiq  quite a lot and preferred the Crown Vic over the GM something .

Aramco paid for the juice so not my issue. Anyway the concept of fuel conservation was completely alien to them. 

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Full disclosure: I just took delivery of my Tesla Model Y.

Delivered to my house at 10:00 PM on 30 June. That was two hours before the end of Q2.  What could possibly go wrong?

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