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Okay, this is a stretch in relation to the the demand destruction due to the alleged pandemic, but...

Masks seem to be a hot topic at the moment, but how many of us actually know masking protocol? Do we simply wear a mask because it is mandated and lets us get out of the house? Do we cover our noses with the mask whenever we wear it? Do we wear a single mask until it is worn out, or do we use a fresh mask each day? If we reuse masks, do we sanitize them properly before we reuse them.

Furthermore, if the masks are preventing the virus from spreading by capturing the virus, then by definition they would be concentrating the virus. I would assume in most cases that used masks are simply thrown in the trash.

Shouldn’t these masks be classified as medical waste and disposed of accordingly? Shouldn’t the EPA regulate the disposal of masks?

If we want the government to take control of every aspect of our lives, let’s get serious about it!!!!

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You saw this on a facebook meme I bet.

The EPA does regulate disposal of masks already, as it is household trash.

Do I need to tell you that rotten meat and dirty diapers are hazardous too? Perhaps just avoid playing at the dump and you will be fine.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Okay, this is a stretch in relation to the the demand destruction due to the alleged pandemic, but...

Masks seem to be a hot topic at the moment, but how many of us actually know masking protocol? Do we simply wear a mask because it is mandated and lets us get out of the house? Do we cover our noses with the mask whenever we wear it? Do we wear a single mask until it is worn out, or do we use a fresh mask each day? If we reuse masks, do we sanitize them properly before we reuse them.

Furthermore, if the masks are preventing the virus from spreading by capturing the virus, then by definition they would be concentrating the virus. I would assume in most cases that used masks are simply thrown in the trash.

Shouldn’t these masks be classified as medical waste and disposed of accordingly? Shouldn’t the EPA regulate the disposal of masks?

If we want the government to take control of every aspect of our lives, let’s get serious about it!!!!

You ask too many questions.  :) 

On the other hand, you are starting to understand liberal/leftist governing and management theory: i.e. First, mandate something silly (masks) backed up by questionable and somewhat controversial "facts".  Follow up with a solid shaming and threat campaign.  Then, all of the questions you ask translate into a larger bureaucracy to manage and ensure compliance.  This leads to a gargantuan government apparatus to make sure the governed comply with the rulers.  Staff the gargantuan government apparatus with the rulers (Democrats) to ensure they thrive and survive, and you have reached nirvana!

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4 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

You saw this on a facebook meme I bet.

The EPA does regulate disposal of masks already, as it is household trash.

Do I need to tell you that rotten meat and dirty diapers are hazardous too? Perhaps just avoid playing at the dump and you will be fine.

 

 

 

So you are equating an object whose sole purpose is to stop/collect viral fluids with diapers or rotten meat? Your logic is amazing!

Furthermore, I said disposal as a medical waste....read and comprehend before looking like an asshole...

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5 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So you are equating an object whose sole purpose is to stop/collect viral fluids with diapers or rotten meat? Your logic is amazing!

Furthermore, I said disposal as a medical waste....read and comprehend before looking like an asshole...

My feed has cleaned up noticeably since I blocked the fool. Should have done it some time ago. His idea of an intelligent conversation is endless repetition of, "does not", "does so!", "does not!", and so on. No intellect present, just churlishness. 

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11 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Okay, this is a stretch in relation to the the demand destruction due to the alleged pandemic, but...

Masks seem to be a hot topic at the moment, but how many of us actually know masking protocol? Do we simply wear a mask because it is mandated and lets us get out of the house? Do we cover our noses with the mask whenever we wear it? Do we wear a single mask until it is worn out, or do we use a fresh mask each day? If we reuse masks, do we sanitize them properly before we reuse them.

Furthermore, if the masks are preventing the virus from spreading by capturing the virus, then by definition they would be concentrating the virus. I would assume in most cases that used masks are simply thrown in the trash.

Shouldn’t these masks be classified as medical waste and disposed of accordingly? Shouldn’t the EPA regulate the disposal of masks?

If we want the government to take control of every aspect of our lives, let’s get serious about it!!!!

Masks. A very low cost minimally intrusive measure to mitigate the public health and economic impacts of the pandemic. One guys gets it. One guy still hasn't quite figured it out. 

 

200526115742-trump-biden-mask-memorial-day-split-super-tease.jpg

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Luckily, Donald will be out of office by the time we get a vaccine. God only knows how he'd manage to screw that up with his  conspiracy theories too. 

 

238717783007977473.png

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1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

My feed has cleaned up noticeably since I blocked the fool. Should have done it some time ago. His idea of an intelligent conversation is endless repetition of, "does not", "does so!", "does not!", and so on. No intellect present, just churlishness. 

Same here.  I give you credit though, you lasted longer than most!

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12 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

You ask too many questions.  :) 

On the other hand, you are starting to understand liberal/leftist governing and management theory: i.e. First, mandate something silly (masks) backed up by questionable and somewhat controversial "facts".  Follow up with a solid shaming and threat campaign.  Then, all of the questions you ask translate into a larger bureaucracy to manage and ensure compliance.  This leads to a gargantuan government apparatus to make sure the governed comply with the rulers.  Staff the gargantuan government apparatus with the rulers (Democrats) to ensure they thrive and survive, and you have reached nirvana!

It sounds funny but you are telling the exact truth. Add together all the Demoncrat plans and you have the most over regulated and overly funded government in the entire world. Oh yeah, we are already there. Well they would make it like the Obama Administration again and build on top of that. What a nightmare for everyone except the in crowd. 

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10 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So you are equating an object whose sole purpose is to stop/collect viral fluids with diapers or rotten meat? Your logic is amazing!

Furthermore, I said disposal as a medical waste....read and comprehend before looking like an asshole...

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biomedical_waste#United_States

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(edited)

12 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

 

Furthermore, I said disposal as a medical waste....read and comprehend before looking like an asshole...

It's not medical waste, it's household.

Just because something is also used in the hospital etc.doesn't mean there home use makes them medical waste.

Even teeth, hair, nail-clippings, contaminated tissues (mucus, blood) , tampons, condoms, incontinence pads, etc. are all acceptable household waste.

Gross huh?

Don't sensationalize a little piece of slightly contaminated fabric when you know your underwear is far more dirty.

Edited by Enthalpic
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On 7/24/2020 at 6:29 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

If we want the government to take control of every aspect of our lives, let’s get serious about it!!!!

The horror! Government is "taking control of our lives"!  You must mean the sensible medical advice that prevented the spread of the virus in most states in the world, and that could help mitigate it in the USA as well, which you find "horrible meddling with your freedoms", because republicans have (again) politicized an expert medical topic (i.e. how to protect yourself from infection, which is by it's nature apolitical), so their followers blindly reject everything, because it's "us vs. them", and critical thinking is no longer allowed, right? 

All the countries that politicized the coronavirus response (UK, USA, Brazil and Sweden) have now the worst results. 

But to address your question - viruses cannot replicate by themselves outside of a host organism. They can, however, survive on various surfaces for various amounts of time (nobody know exactly how long, several hours to several days is estimated, depending on temperature, moisture, etc.). Heat over 60 degree Celsius kills the virus after 10 minutes, as does soap or alcohol that dissolves the protective fatty outer shell of the virus. So here in Czech, we use reusable cloth face masks, and when you come home, you first throw the mask in a pot with hot water, then you wash your hands thoroughly with soap, and you can use the mask again after disinfecting and drying it. Disposable masks are better, but more wasteful, and if they are from paper, it's better to burn them after a single use. Throwing used masks into communal trash is controversial, they can be infectious for a time, and even though municipal workers that handle trash should protect themselves, it's better to be responsible and destroy or disinfect them yourself. 

Once again, the masks is not a surefire protection against the infection. The virus is too small, it easily goes through the cloth (there are special masks with nano-tubes that can prevent the virus from passing, but those are not available here. The main purpose is to prevent long range spitting when people talk, but most impact is psychological - with masks, people are reminded there is a danger present at all times, so they don't kiss, hug, group closely, they are just more careful. For slowing the spread of the virus, it's critical, it works, and it has been documented. 

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(edited)

8 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Don't sensationalize a little piece of slightly contaminated fabric when you know your underwear is far more dirty.

But he is right this time. If the fabric indeed contains the virus, it can infect other people who touch it, and then touch their nose, mouth or eyes. Cases are known and documented. I have read articles in local newspaper discussing the topic, all municipal workers for example must treat used face mask as potentially hazardous, i.e. protect themselves adequately. 

Edited by Yoshiro Kamamura

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4 hours ago, El Nikko said:

 

Yes, this is, of course, irrelevant bullshit, and after I explained the problem to write-ups above, you still have to post it, right? Nobody ever said that cloth mask stops the virus. Nobody ever said that a cloth mask prevents you from exhaling smoke, mostly around the mask. What has been said and what has been empirically proven is that the mask prevents people from spitting droplets long range (2 meters) when they speak, exhale, sneeze or cough, and that the presence of the masks has psychological impact that the people behave more carefully, they are mindful of the danger, they don't hug, kiss or group together and they pass each other carefully. That alone slows the spread of the virus significantly. 

And that is also the reason why most of the Europe, Asia and other countries in the world has managed to flatten the curve, and lower the R number enough so that many social activities can be relatively safely resumed again, America has re-entered to the exponential phase of the epidemic, all progress has been negated by premature attempts to "open the economy", and America leads with total number of cases, total number of death (more than most EU countries combined), while having seventh worst per-capita death count in the world, "leading" the "morbid charge" with countries like UK, Brazil and Sweden who made the same mistake - underestimating the threat, refusing to adopt measures in time and politicizing the coronavirus response. 

Despite that, brainwashed people organize so called "covid parties" in the USA with the objective to prove the virus "is a hoax", where people get infected and die as a result. That's what I call the very definition and essence of human stupidity - being given all the relevant data, being shown what happens when you ignore the facts and refuse to heed sensible advice, and despite having all the information, still consciously making the wrong decision and suffering death or injury a as a result. As one of the participants of a COVID party said before dying from Covid19 infection: "Well, perhaps it WAS a mistake to go there." Bravo!

 

armedfish.jpg

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9 hours ago, El Nikko said:

 

Cool looking video.  I guess he's using a vape?  Did you see immediately after he begins exhaling how the smoke/vape appears to take the form of a skull complete with bare teeth?  Cool.

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On 7/24/2020 at 12:29 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Okay, this is a stretch in relation to the the demand destruction due to the alleged pandemic, but...

Masks seem to be a hot topic at the moment, but how many of us actually know masking protocol? Do we simply wear a mask because it is mandated and lets us get out of the house? Do we cover our noses with the mask whenever we wear it? Do we wear a single mask until it is worn out, or do we use a fresh mask each day? If we reuse masks, do we sanitize them properly before we reuse them.

Furthermore, if the masks are preventing the virus from spreading by capturing the virus, then by definition they would be concentrating the virus. I would assume in most cases that used masks are simply thrown in the trash.

Shouldn’t these masks be classified as medical waste and disposed of accordingly? Shouldn’t the EPA regulate the disposal of masks?

If we want the government to take control of every aspect of our lives, let’s get serious about it!!!!

Put surgical masks in shirt pockets, take out where necessary, leave in shirt for laundry. Come back from dryer with mask intact. Reuse.

Recognize that if you are out and about, you have a very high likelihood of having been infected already - If you are in an urban center that has seen a spike in cases since March, then you likely are infected if you ventured out to buy groceries etc. Even if you used a mask, the aerosol transmission in enclosed spaces pretty much assures you were infected. Yes, the mask would prevent you from having a seriously dangerous viral load, but will have you as another link in the transmission chain. The way the masks work in the stats is by reducing the rate of symptomatics and thus the positive tests, as non symptomatics are not tested. They do not protect the immunde deficient (includes diabetics) as they will simply take longer to get symptoms from a low viral load upon infection, as their immune system can't counter even a much reduced viral infection dose. 

By allowing continued transmission without as many serious infections and substantially fewer deaths we can get to herd immunity if people feel (incorrectly) protected from transmission by wearing masks and thus congregate again in crowds in enclosed spaces.

The faster and safer we are about reaching herd immunity the better off we will all be. I am all for wearing masks because they don't really work, which is what makes them beneficial.

So put on your mask and schmooze in crowded air conditioned spaces. Just avoid N95 and silk and quilters cotton layered masks since when they are well fit, they actually do stop enough transmission to have a lower chance of infection altogether, a bad thing for herd immunity.

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When I forget my mask in my pocket and it goes through the washing machine, it is an unrecognizable lump afterwards. Maybe not enough softwner...🤔

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(edited)

The real reason to wear masks is to stop infected people from spreading it to others.  If you aren't infected, washing your hands is a better idea to stay safe.  Unless you go to a crowded indoor event (like a bar or an office- places with awful ventilation), you're much more likely to get corona by touching your nose, then by breathing it in.

The problem is that a lot of people are non-symptomic (however you spell that) so making everyone wear masks covers the bases. 

Edited by Zhong Lu

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(edited)

I understand the economic harm argument, but the "boost economy" vs "control spread" dichotomy is false.  The economy won't boost until the spread is controlled either through vaccine, mask wearing, or herd immunity.  The countries that stopped the spread early will also recover first.  

Edited by Zhong Lu
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On 7/25/2020 at 12:02 AM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

But he is right this time. If the fabric indeed contains the virus, it can infect other people who touch it, and then touch their nose, mouth or eyes.

The fact it may be infectious does not make it medical waste. People with dangerous infections put stuff in the garbage all the time.

Sanitation workers have been treating garbage as hazardous long before this.

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9 hours ago, Zhong Lu said:

I understand the economic harm argument, but the "boost economy" vs "control spread" dichotomy is false.  The economy won't boost until the spread is controlled either through vaccine, mask wearing, or herd immunity.  The countries that stopped the spread early will also recover first.  

Without a vaccine, and there will not be one just as in the HIV, SARS, and MERS epidemics, herd immunity is the only solution. Lockdowns only ensure a ‘second wave’ once the lockdown is lifted and more hosts are available to the virus.

How long do you lockdown, wear masks, avoid social interactions, close schools until you are sure that the virus will not spread?

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On 7/23/2020 at 9:29 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

Okay, this is a stretch in relation to the the demand destruction due to the alleged pandemic, but...

Masks seem to be a hot topic at the moment, but how many of us actually know masking protocol? Do we simply wear a mask because it is mandated and lets us get out of the house? Do we cover our noses with the mask whenever we wear it? Do we wear a single mask until it is worn out, or do we use a fresh mask each day? If we reuse masks, do we sanitize them properly before we reuse them.

Furthermore, if the masks are preventing the virus from spreading by capturing the virus, then by definition they would be concentrating the virus. I would assume in most cases that used masks are simply thrown in the trash.

Shouldn’t these masks be classified as medical waste and disposed of accordingly? Shouldn’t the EPA regulate the disposal of masks?

If we want the government to take control of every aspect of our lives, let’s get serious about it!!!!

I have been in the industrial safety business for 35 years. In that time I've sold all types of respiratory devices for all kinds of applications. I also professionally perform both qualitative and quantitative respirator fit testing. I must say when I heard the guidance that masks were of no use, I cringed because our industry knows the falsehood of that advice. The science behind any NIOSH (The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health) approved respirators has years of proven science and study behind it. The N95 which means 95% protection from non-petroleum containing dusts and MISTS 0.3 microns in size or larger. The filter media collects particulate and mists by a mechanical filter and the inherent electrostatic properties of the melt-blown plastic media. Those NIOSH respirators and the foreign equivalents (KN95, FFP2) are quite effective IF FIT AND WORN PROPERLY. (that means not under the nose) They are also hot and uncomfortable to wear for the layman, even though workers have been wearing them and their N99, N100, and P100 cousins for years for Human Hantavirus, TB, Silica, Asbestos, Beryllium, Radionuclides, Welding Fumes, etc. All of this to say, aside from everyone wearing an approved and properly fitted respirator that healthcare workers need, there is required testing that shows the filter media in the typical and easier to wear three ply "surgical mask" which is constructed with a 95% effective media can provide some protection for the wearer, ~20%, but the real reason they existed in medicine in the first place, is to protect others from infection. That number can be as high as ~70%. The problem with the 3-ply and the fabric alternatives is fit. However, if I am wearing one to protect you from asymptomatic transmission and you are wearing one to protect me, we are significantly reducing the risk of transmission of the virus to one another on the order of ~90%. Something else that is typically left out of the mask conversation is viral load. Even if a virus makes its way through the webs of Polypropylene, the load of the virus can be greatly diminished and therefore the effects of it as well. As to disposal, unless you are in healthcare and working in an infectious disease ward, just put it in the trash. Wrap it up in a sealed bag first if it makes one feel better. This IS a Novel virus but what studies that have been done show that the virus will die on any surface in time without a biological host. If anyone cares to help our fellow man and our economy survive until the vaccine, please mask up. And not with a valved respirator, loose bandanna, or a loose weaved polyester covering. We've all heard the the guidance of distance, and washing hands. It's all about risk mitigation and a mask adds to that. Really that's all we have right now folks.                    

Edited by SafetyKris
grammar, spelling
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(edited)

19 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Without a vaccine, and there will not be one just as in the HIV, SARS, and MERS epidemics, herd immunity is the only solution. Lockdowns only ensure a ‘second wave’ once the lockdown is lifted and more hosts are available to the virus.

How long do you lockdown, wear masks, avoid social interactions, close schools until you are sure that the virus will not spread?

A prime example of wrong thought process. You DEMAND return to the previous state of things, so reality MUST offer a solution in the form of herd immunity. In reality, herd immunity is rather doubtful goal, because research shows the antibodies last two or three months and then you are ready to be infected again. If it's true, there will be no herd immunity. In such case, one of the solutions is the so called "New Normal" - adapting and changing standards to reflect a reality that brings a new serious threat. That means permanent measures in the form of masks, distancing, etc. Doing things remotely whenever possible (we have tech for that) - homeworking, homeschooling, broadcast, instead of live events. Scaling down production so that it can be safe under the new condition. Humanity has to scale down economic activity anyway, because the current abuse of the planet is unsustainable - climate change, arable land erosion, fresh water scarcity, natural resources of all kinds depleted, all those factors will force us to change and adapt anyway. The sooner, the better. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-06-25/the-new-normal-after-the-coronavirus-pandemic

Edited by Yoshiro Kamamura

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(edited)

12 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

A prime example of wrong thought process. You DEMAND return to the previous state of things, so reality MUST offer a solution in the form of herd immunity. In reality, herd immunity is rather doubtful goal, because research shows the antibodies last two or three months and then you are ready to be infected again. If it's true, there will be no herd immunity. In such case, one of the solutions is the so called "New Normal" - adapting and changing standards to reflect a reality that brings a new serious threat. That means permanent measures in the form of masks, distancing, etc. Doing things remotely whenever possible (we have tech for that) - homeworking, homeschooling, broadcast, instead of live events. Scaling down production so that it can be safe under the new condition. Humanity has to scale down economic activity anyway, because the current abuse of the planet is unsustainable - climate change, arable land erosion, fresh water scarcity, natural resources of all kinds depleted, all those factors will force us to change and adapt anyway. The sooner, the better. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-06-25/the-new-normal-after-the-coronavirus-pandemic

There is much talk of "The New Normal" Since this is a Novel virus it would be pure speculation to take a view of the New Normal as a radical departure from life before the virus. Also speculation that there will be no vaccine or therapeutic that would allow "The Old Normal". SARS died out (contained) in 2003. MERS is sporadic and limited. What is important to note is that that the scientific community is currently well positioned due to years of study on those and other spill over corona virus' to take us back to the "Old Normal" In addition to the head start of knowing how the virus uses RNA to enter the host, the SarsCov2 2019 has affected not just a region as the others have, but rather, the whole world. The financial reward and competition for a vaccine is far too great in my view to not have something that will diminish this virus down to at least an influenza level. Lingering fear will drive whatever "New Normal" we may have, plus a few social drivers that we have learned about like that working remote is actually a real thing. But that's about as far as it will go. I've seen with my own eyes, from attempted re-openings, and even in the heart of shutdowns, all caution will be to the wind once there is a vaccine that limits severity and spread. People, me for one, want their hot wings and pints at the sports bar. It will be like trying to hold a horse that heard a rattlesnake! 

Edited by SafetyKris
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