America Could Go Fully Electric Right Now

[NickW + 2,714]

1 hour ago, Wombat said:

Here is one for you Nick:

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Canada-Government-Invests-In-Mini-Nuclear-Reactors.html

Makes sense. If Canada is going to shift from gas heating to electric then it really needs to adopt heat pumps (Geothermal in that climate) and for that you need stable electric supply mid winter as baseload. 

[Guy Daley + 49]

There is a lot of "climate change", "green new deal" posts, permeating oil price.com  You really can't escape the propaganda.  It's a full court press especially in the MSM.  They are trying to shove it down our throats.  Meanwhile all the fires don't have any impact whatsoever.  Its just those darn internal combustion engines that are doing all the damage.  

CA is a perfect example of the result of trying to implement elimination of fossil fuels and LOOKIE HERE, the UK is expecting brownouts because the wind has taken a vacation.  Rest my case.  If the weak minds of america fall prey to the propaganda, we're all going to have to find ways to become SELF -SUFFICIENT in energy because it won't be there when you really need it.  What's happening in CA is going to spread to other demonrat controlled states, except perhaps Washington state because of their abundance of hydroelectric.  

[NickW + 2,714]

3 hours ago, Guy Daley said:

There is a lot of "climate change", "green new deal" posts, permeating oil price.com  You really can't escape the propaganda.  It's a full court press especially in the MSM.  They are trying to shove it down our throats.  Meanwhile all the fires don't have any impact whatsoever.  Its just those darn internal combustion engines that are doing all the damage.  

CA is a perfect example of the result of trying to implement elimination of fossil fuels and LOOKIE HERE, the UK is expecting brownouts because the wind has taken a vacation.  Rest my case.  If the weak minds of america fall prey to the propaganda, we're all going to have to find ways to become SELF -SUFFICIENT in energy because it won't be there when you really need it.  What's happening in CA is going to spread to other demonrat controlled states, except perhaps Washington state because of their abundance of hydroelectric.  

I doubt it. We are not running any coal fired plant currently and have about 5.5GW of that in reserve. 

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=eds/main

Edited October 17, 2020 by NickW
Linky

[Guy Daley + 49]

3 hours ago, NickW said:

I doubt it. We are not running any coal fired plant currently and have about 5.5GW of that in reserve. 

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=eds/main

The UK is in the process of eliminating coal - PERIOD.  Same for rest of Europe.  Coal fire plants do NOT have a short start up like natural gas does.  I'm not sure what the hell you are doubting because you weren't specific, but it was in the news that the UK was expecting brownouts because the wind wasn't blowing as usual.  Are you doubting me or the news?  No idea, because you were absurdly unspecific.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12941736/lack-wind-national-grid-emergency-power-sources/

Just do a search on "lack of wind power" and the articles will pop up about the UK.  So just exactly, what are you doubting?

[NickW + 2,714]

52 minutes ago, Guy Daley said:

The UK is in the process of eliminating coal - PERIOD.  Same for rest of Europe.  Coal fire plants do NOT have a short start up like natural gas does.  I'm not sure what the hell you are doubting because you weren't specific, but it was in the news that the UK was expecting brownouts because the wind wasn't blowing as usual.  Are you doubting me or the news?  No idea, because you were absurdly unspecific.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12941736/lack-wind-national-grid-emergency-power-sources/

Just do a search on "lack of wind power" and the articles will pop up about the UK.  So just exactly, what are you doubting?

My doubts are based on facts which are plain to see in the link I posted.

There are several GW of CCGT, about 5.5GW of Coal fired plant and about 800MW of OCGT unutilised capacity during this 'low wind period' so there is no imminent risk of brown or black outs unless some major plant goes off line suddenly. Furthermore if the supply runs tight this will send the price signal to neighbouring countries to up the interconnector deliveries. The UK has 5 GW of interconnectors now. In fact currently we are exporting 4GW to the continent. 

This time of year the same old stories are run by the Daily Fail, Telegraph etc in their annual anti wind crusade......

But longer term I agree - in the absence of building more long term gas storage, the UK will be very vulnerable as it will lack sufficient baseload (Coal & Nuclear) to withstand major shocks to the system. 

 

[NickW + 2,714]

1 hour ago, Guy Daley said:

The UK is in the process of eliminating coal - PERIOD.  Same for rest of Europe.  Coal fire plants do NOT have a short start up like natural gas does.  I'm not sure what the hell you are doubting because you weren't specific, but it was in the news that the UK was expecting brownouts because the wind wasn't blowing as usual.  Are you doubting me or the news?  No idea, because you were absurdly unspecific.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12941736/lack-wind-national-grid-emergency-power-sources/

Just do a search on "lack of wind power" and the articles will pop up about the UK.  So just exactly, what are you doubting?

I was very specific - I stated there is 5.5GW of unutilised coal plant on standby. In my last post I further detailed other plant available on standby.

That coal fired plant can ramp from 0 to 100% output within about 8 hours. CCGT within 4 hours. 

Wind variability within that time frame is only a couple of % of predicted output which at current levels is less than 100MW variation. Dinorwic can deal with that with a turn of a dial. 

[Guy Daley + 49]

On 10/17/2020 at 5:23 PM, NickW said:

"This time of year the same old stories are run by the Daily Fail, Telegraph etc in their annual anti wind crusade......"

Okay, I understand MSM propaganda as much or more than the next person.  However, why would your media denigrate wind power when it's part of the globalist agenda to eliminate anything that generates carbon dioxide?  

Here in the US, the radical left politiicans promote The Green New Deal, non-stop as if carbon emissions were the source of evil.  CA state governor has gone so far as to issue an executive order mandating electric vehicles by 2030?  (only electric vehicles sold new).  

If your media is anti wind power then what renewable energy source are they pushing?  You don't have hydroelectric and solar is impractical.  What's left besides nuclear?  I can't believe that the nuclear industry is able to lobby everyone involved to make sure they are the last one standing.  

 

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Guy Daley

[NickW + 2,714]

6 minutes ago, Guy Daley said:

 

The UK is mined out of coal and its oil and gas reserves are diminishing rapidly. We don't have great Hydro resources nor copious amounts of sunshine. However along with Ireland we are the windiest country in Europe.  Wind offers an opportunity to generate some of our energy as opposed to being entirely reliant on imports. 

Longer term we need a secure nuclear baseload however the hiatus in new build since 1995 means the gap will need to be filled - thats being filled with gas, biomass, wind and solar. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by NickW

[specinho + 467]

On 10/17/2020 at 9:53 PM, Guy Daley said:

Meanwhile all the fires don't have any impact whatsoever.  Its just those darn internal combustion engines that are doing all the damage.  

CA is a perfect example of the result of trying to implement elimination of fossil fuels and LOOKIE HERE, the UK is expecting brownouts because the wind has taken a vacation.  Rest my case.  If the weak minds of america fall prey to the propaganda, we're all going to have to find ways to become SELF -SUFFICIENT in energy because it won't be there when you really need it.  What's happening in CA is going to spread to other demonrat controlled states, except perhaps Washington state because of their abundance of hydroelectric.  

I was in an online course the other day regarding implementation of microgrid integrated with renewable energy sources....... To my surprise, somewhere in the lessons, it was mentioned that in the Europe, sun peaks during summer, weak in winter; wind peaks during winter and weak on others time. And they have average efficiency of 20% or lower, after deducting out those days and months without sun and wind........... Not sure if I understood correctly that they are counteracting on the short comings with batteries that operate on merely 24 hours on storage......

It was also mentioned that while using buck and boost converter to enable bidirectional flow of electricity, if both switches were turned off simultaneously, short circuit could occur..... Could this, introduction of bidirectional flow microgrid with renewable energy source, one of the reasons for frequent black out and one of the causes of accidental widespread fire, in California??

Before promoting blindly or rushing into enforcing abrupt-mass adoption of technologies existed since more than 60-70 years ago that are still not popular, there might be a need to understand the second meaning of the term or condition better ......... or no?

2 hours ago, NickW said:

The UK is mined out of coal and its oil and gas reserves are diminishing rapidly. We don't have great Hydro resources nor copious amounts of sunshine. However along with Ireland we are the windiest country in Europe.  Wind offers an opportunity to generate some of our energy as opposed to being entirely reliant on imports. 

Longer term we need a secure nuclear baseload however the hiatus in new build since 1995 means the gap will need to be filled - thats being filled with gas, biomass, wind and solar. 

Try something else that could be Independent of weather nor supply of fuel........

[pfarley@bigpond.net.au + 42]

On 8/14/2020 at 11:15 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Here Let me help you since it appears your critical mind has flown out the window: https://energyindustryreview.com/energy-efficiency/baker-hughes-lm9000-worlds-most-efficient-simple-cycle-gas-turbine/

By the way combined cycle should be implemented on every single nuclear reactor and they would go from 30% efficient to 60% efficient overnight.  Oh the horrors, they would burn some natural gas. 

PS: Every single combined cycle(60% efficient) has a boiler.  Just in case you and your genius article can't figure that out...  Only difference is they call it an EVAPORATOR instead of boiler.

Let me help you Nuclear plants operate at less than 320 C and turbine output temperature of around 110 C or less, the gas turbine stage of a combined cycle plant operates at an exit 570 C which is the temperature required to make an efficient steam cycle, so a combined cycle nuclear plant is completely impractical.

Further the 60% efficiency figure touted by CC plants is at 15C near sea level and full load. Conditions rarely encountered at peak electrical demand so year round efficiency of combined cycle plants is rarely above about 48% 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

14 minutes ago, pfarley@bigpond.net.au said:

Let me help you Nuclear plants operate at less than 320 C and turbine output temperature of around 110 C or less, the gas turbine stage of a combined cycle plant operates at an exit 570 C which is the temperature required to make an efficient steam cycle, so a combined cycle nuclear plant is completely impractical.

Further the 60% efficiency figure touted by CC plants is at 15C near sea level and full load. Conditions rarely encountered at peak electrical demand so year round efficiency of combined cycle plants is rarely above about 48% 

I know I am wasting my time here...

Do you know what a heat exchanger is?

The outlet Temp of the Nuclear cycle is the INPUT to the natural gas which boosts the temperature.

And no, the outlet temp of a steam turbine is NEVER above 100C as there is this little thing called an expansion low pressure turbine used on all modern steam plants which is NOT present on the old nuclear plants and this addition alone would add ~10% to their total.  The outlet pressure of these turbines is lower than 0.2atm... and outlet temps of under 40C, before one adds in access to truly cold water. 

As for combined cycle year round efficiency... yea, cuz they are forced to have distribution capacity in reserve and forced to idle at non peak efficiency.  Of course part of this efficiency drain is the spinning reserve which is not counted as part of their overall efficiency.  Something the solar/wind boys drop onto the NG plants and pretend they are less efficient.  When Wind Solar get 75% capacity factor using energy backup and add that ENTIRE cost into their "cost" then we have apples to apples comparison.

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 10/18/2020 at 8:28 AM, NickW said:

I was very specific - I stated there is 5.5GW of unutilised coal plant on standby. In my last post I further detailed other plant available on standby.

That coal fired plant can ramp from 0 to 100% output within about 8 hours. CCGT within 4 hours. 

Wind variability within that time frame is only a couple of % of predicted output which at current levels is less than 100MW variation. Dinorwic can deal with that with a turn of a dial. 

Some big batteries will help big time!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 8/16/2020 at 7:57 AM, Meredith Poor said:

I'm not sure what Gen IV technology means. Is this related to nuclear, coal, or 'all of the above'? Whatever it is, it has to compete with solar at 70 cents per watt now and lower in future projects.

Whatever we use should be made in America. 

Has solar roofing ever been marketed successfully? It has been around for many years I know. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 10/17/2020 at 8:22 AM, NickW said:

Makes sense. If Canada is going to shift from gas heating to electric then it really needs to adopt heat pumps (Geothermal in that climate) and for that you need stable electric supply mid winter as baseload. 

My understanding is that heat pumps are only good for moderate climates. 

[Meredith Poor + 895]

44 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

My understanding is that heat pumps are only good for moderate climates. 

"The most efficient heat pumps like the Trane XV0i can operate in temperatures as low as 0 degrees Fahrenheit. A heat pump is most effective in temperatures of 30 degrees Fahrenheit and above. A heat pump is most effective when supplemented by a secondary heat source at 25-30 degrees Fahrenheit and below."

This is a quote that appears when I search on 'Heat Pump Lower Limit'.

Realistically, most heat pumps also provide a more conventional heating element.

 

[Paul-S + 8]

Worlds biggest electric motor has 107,282 HP and massively more torque than any fossil engine and is 98.1% efficient. About 3 times better than any piston engine.  It also has 99.5% run time with a tiny fraction of the down time of a fuel engine, and costs less. Running costs are also dramatically lower.  https://www.offshore-energy.biz/ge-tests-80-mw-induction-motor-for-lng-industry/

Keep your pistons.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by Paul-S

[NickW + 2,714]

On 10/26/2020 at 2:02 AM, ronwagn said:

My understanding is that heat pumps are only good for moderate climates. 

You still get a COP of 1.5 down at -19 degrees C. At 0 degrees C its 2.5. 

http://www.mibnet.se/house/HeatPumps/NIBE2020HeatPumpCOPCurves.html

[Rob Kramer + 696]

37 minutes ago, NickW said:

You still get a COP of 1.5 down at -19 degrees C. At 0 degrees C its 2.5. 

http://www.mibnet.se/house/HeatPumps/NIBE2020HeatPumpCOPCurves.html

I looked at heat pumps before. Most houses in southern Ontario have AC and furnace so electric furnaces are another cheap option.  But I think it's crazy the carbon tax on home heat. Criminal really. Alot of people are pretty ticked about it. It could be one of the final straws for the Libs. Business and now home are being crushed by tax here. And that's with cheap (ish relative to other expenses) gas and electricity... soon it will go up (more like always) 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/struggling-rental-market-could-usher-in-next-american-housing-crisis-11603791000?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/0cq5c9CLc9

Canada is no different . People are struggling and those that arnt are vacationing on covid payments.

About the heat pumps I have seen a good number of them here. Probably because they can replace an ac unit near the cost and sometimes smaller or higher efficiency. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Rob Kramer

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 9/4/2020 at 9:35 PM, Meredith Poor said:

Depends on what you're including in the 'cost'. It also depends on the time scale. My idea of 'expensive' energy is collecting firewood for heating one's home. What is the BTU yield per work-hour for that?

It is pretty cheap if you are healthy and grow your own trees. Chainsaws made it relatively easy compared to an axe. People waste a lot more time and money going to a gym.   

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 hours ago, ronwagn said:

It is pretty cheap if you are healthy and grow your own trees. Chainsaws made it relatively easy compared to an axe. People waste a lot more time and money going to a gym.   

Getting outdoors and doing physically demanding work is good for the body and the soul, no doubt about it.

But don't write off exercise in the gym.  I think you'll agree, if we'd have done a bit more of that over the years we'd be in a better place than we are now.  Sedentary lifestyles that many of us have fallen into in the last 30 odd years are definitely not healthy, and become expensive and painful later in life.

[KilonBerlin + 9]

On 10/5/2020 at 3:34 AM, Meredith Poor said:

I'm not sure I understand these numbers. A typical single occupant residence in the US uses about 1Mwh including water heater but not including air conditioner. The water heater is about 1/3rd of the bill, or 300Kwh per month. With AC, the usage might double to 2Mwh per month, depending on the the efficiency of the AC. Most SEER 18 models might add 200Kwh per month.

Given that people in Germany aren't using AC like people in Texas or Florida (how many even have it at all?) the only use would appear to be heat pumps, unless you're using resistance heating. How do most German homeowners heat their homes?

I know OT but I wonder why people in the US dont "know" (black market) Amphetamine but only this Crystal crap on Black Market which is more difficult to make, I think Grey market it exists as "Adderall" and most common being Ritalin, so I have to read which crap I wrote with having some "Adderall" from the pharmacists nobody trust, but prices are at ~10-12.5% compared with the bad "C",

I can't remember anything but I see the typical ~22.000 kWh single consumption with 200 for hot water if its won electric by the (I think it was a 2018, for sure not older than 2017, average, counts for boilers too, now we have really countless laws in the EU and Germany to meet the "Energyplan 2030", and while the EU will wail IMHO to reach it, except we will see an unwanted collapse in life style, Germany has much better chances with 2020 being the year where "everything" starts to get serious with subsidies collected already since the 2002-2006 era or earlier if you paid electricity taxes and taxes for fuels also contained this "EEG Umlage" ("EEG reallocation charge") of course was the idea of the Green Party, that election *remembers dark* was really heavy... 38.5% each (2nd voice, as you can/"have" to vote with 2), the SPD ("Red") and CDU/CSU ("Black", CSU in Bavaria they are "special") both had 38.5% here, difficult...

somehow around that Millenium I guess many people thought a bit longer into future than starting a few months after election up to the next election and the "Green" got 8.6% and "FDP" saw a surprise 7.4% ... big surprise and lucky for "Red-Green" was the "PDS" (a updated to stay legal and avoid the critic for all the GDR/Cold War stuff etc), soon later they renamed, I guess very small regional parties joined and in the West many new groups were founded, but we have the 5% minimum to get a single seat in the Bundestag... the 1.1% drop from the previous 5.1% (1998) to 4.0% meant that they were not counting at all, and they decided in this period I think the "2020 nuclear power exit", which was only modified not by time but by remaining production capacity, one major mistake IMHO but I was 15 than in 2002 and maybe 17 when they brought the exit into law...

Now its not to late but almost, we are surrounded by countries like France (already in the same year they made it serious I had a short trip to my half-sis making 1 semester in Paris and the 2nd possible in Warsaw as we have polish roots (borders, thanks to Stalins movement accepted by Roosevelt/Allieds my mothers family, I only know this side, my grandma (*1923, in Vilnius area) and grandpa (*1926, in Lemberg area), at this time East Poland. In Paris I found my sister in a shared large flat in a ultra-old house I almost only know from former Germany (until 1945) in later Poland, nobody lived there, it were ruins in the mid 90's in a ~115k population city not far from the German border, in Paris such housings were still used, lucky the General(s) which followed not only resistance in the East to the last man but also to destroy Warsaw after another selection/evacuation of the ~300k remaining, 80% of the building structure was as ordered destroyed by thee demolition commandos while the Red Army like during all of the Uprising except the very first few days did watch everything but Stalin didn't allow any help as already before for the Uprising.

In Paris in December 2004 my Sisters room was heated by I think 2 large electric heaters, you only find such ones here in the camping sector and than also variants which can be reduced from 2000 Watt to ~1333W and ~666W, while in Paris often multiple heaters were used in some rooms, (special water secured) for the bathroom because in december in such old buildings the insulation was bad I think, now I guess its upgraded, but heating this 3 party rented flat as the girls shared it only with electricity was normal, I saw 2018-2019 prices for power which seem to make it expensive, as the building had also special protected (I guess?! In Germany it sure would have been) stucco and no installed heating pipes as everything someone is living in here has, only an old fireplace, not working and with the former cabin with the coal (or wood during wars/very hard times) next to it was used as an additional storage room, the fireplace itself had a table in front of it (Kitchen) but also stuff you need sometimes, just not often... maybe that crazy electric heating was heavily subsidied or tax-free because the building was maybe 85-100 years old (could have been even pre december 1904 constructed, I mean in a city only 1 fireplace to heat so many rooms in a not soo bad area?!

The 2.200 kWh is the average consumption a single uses in his 1-room (usually) flat rented, wash machine, a refrigerator and add what you would add, the age in Germany for ethnic Germans/Europeans is very high, single age is a bit lower, and it fits perfect into 24 times charging 100 kWh (only Tesla of these Models available since I think early 2018?! For Model 3 its 75 kWh and no other variants, but since the Model S is a real luxury car by price and the twice recharging because of a higher empty weight and consumption per 100 kWh higher too, so even old people in pension not only sitting home do not need to drive like crazy guys with top speed on autobahn to get the pack down... 12 months * 2 charges * 100 kWh = 2400 kWh (no losses or so, home losses however should exist without a wallbox or mobile solution, 3.7 kW is 230V * 16 Ampere and the maximum a normal power outlet will give you, but most protection will kick you already at lower amounts out immediately, after a moment as even "old" water cookers use ~2000 Watt and old Turbo-Loaders "only" use ~600W more, most Turbo comes from technology/materials, what modern ones need, think at least still a lot but not that close to limit and usually 2 or 3 Minutes for a Liter)

Thats PRIVATE, HOME CONSUMPTION! Of course the German total annual energy consumption is not ~2200/2400 kWh divided by days and the yearly value mutiplied by residents while the daily is for tourists or other 1 or more days visitors... the larger the househould, like my shared living project I'm not at right now, but its my main house, I share everything with 1 person and a 3rd person for short periods can come into our small "emergency bed", since refrigerator only in non-freezing could be smaller I would maybe use a smaller normal 8°C cooling area, but the ***-Freezing is minimum already, that amount of ~170 kWh/annum with the Energy efficiency class sticker is for comparable reasons, its not THAT much more for us 2 using it and sometimes a 3rd person, but we have very different times of being up, so its a unusual thing as only on Weekends like this when I often help my family I'm not there he has that normal 6-8 hours of de facto non-usage where I keep opening it until 2 or 3 a.m. and he maybe starts his day between 4 and 5 a.m. and short after this opens it (opening them is the most important factor for consumption), 

living as a couple or family with kids is even much better, as if you cock with power and not natural gas like its at our crappy oven the use here like with wash machine is optimized... When I saw how much per capita power is used at all, incl. tourists, public (public transport, lightning, public services from police via schools and hospitals to shops owned by 1-person or food-stores with an owner and a few employees up to giant super market with their consumption...

makes the use a bit more relative, but also a lot diesel, heavy oil etc. is used to bring goods here by ships, trucks and limited by train and very limited by aircraft, and everything on the route using energy/products supplied by oil there is a lot but yea, EV sales in 2020 slowed after 2019 already was the weakest year in per cent with a minus in North America afair, a only 3% growth in Asia/China, only Europe thanks to all the subsidies saw a pretty normal growth while the US/Asia for some years had middle to upper 3-digit per cent growth rates for some years in a row, 1Q 2020 Asia and US saw a down and Europe increased its worl wide market share to 26% in 1st Quarter, this for the US was almost complete corona-free in terms of lockdown or so, only news about China, Europe and other areas were in February/March known worldwide, limited even in January..

[KilonBerlin + 9]

Heating: statistics are different, question is who faked them.. 

West-Berlin until 1989/90 had the Cities power supplier (now Vattenfall) had a absolute primary unique German role to create electricity under conditions which for other metropolitan regions already in 1989 or before were out of question, thermal which now is gaining popularity here in Berlin-Center, also former West-Center, I mean area is small, West-Berlin and "Central" areas close to the West-Berlin-Border were better places, deep inside the east until today often you feel where you are...

Energyplan 2030 however needs the capital, private households and even high buildings used much oil, for laarge housing buildings (10+ floors is large, the typical pre-war housing was/is up to 4 floors, main house and in the back left/right entries...but everything not "Altbau" (="Old Build(ing") was made oil after 1948-1949 airlift expierence, same as coal was kept for electricity even when natural gas outside the US started to see heavy increases and exports, especially by the Soviet Union were ignored, as flying in Natural Gas is no option, after the war when surviving mattered and not "clima", the so called "City Gas" was used in the East and Western cities close to coal regions (= whole Germany post war somehow -.-), like Hitler planned Coal-to-Liquid (Oil/Gasoline) already before he got Kanzler, planned only as gapfiller, some companies back than made it, Coal-to-Gas for the civilian use I think (kitchen and heating where wood was not available or forbidden to get your own wood and here Coal-Gas was cheaper (Coal was further used I guess, just the gas was exctracted first or during the process?!) than collected and "correct" (with a long-time plan to be sustainable) grown wood in larger cities,

increasing wealth and huge health risks caused to replace city gas by real natural gas in limited amounts (cooking needs not much) and disappeared from large industry use... in West-Berlin oil is still popular in former West-Berlin housing units planned and starter in late 60's and I guess here there are differences for planned constructions until November 1973 and than once more ~1979 and buildings after this, but such large units were very limited in the 80's as the new areas offered space, just with few green place, the big house my good primary school friend lived in had such a "machine" which was giant and visible via the windows, the house had like 12-14 floors and I think 4 entries with a lot of flats per floor... I guess this was a oil heating XL-unit for these thousands of people, with many large units very close, some "smaller" (up to 7 floords or so), maybe it was connected to them, and there were multiple backups...

This is looking at geographic North-East-Germany a massive oil heating consumer compared to other areas, but the new plan is baning almost all pure oil heating units, except when a change is not possible and historical reasons or so... every new home (1-family is the usual people they are aiming at, as companies know what to do) starting 2026 needs a hybrid system if it wants to use oil, and oil is the secondary fuel, photovoltaic-oil and heat-pumps-oil (too expensive here/yet?!) are possible "everywhere", its a electric-heating-system, for now there is a low where 30 years or older oil heaters have to be changed immediately, when this was introduced they thought to pay for every change/destroyed oil heater, oil lobby maybe wanted to keep a little bit market share so far and it is a support if you reach 30 years or decide to change an old oil system for the ~5 years to come, not clever but possible, 

How much Oil? I think as it was used in the wealthy West-Berlin Island in new buildings here a lot of people are reached without even knowing it if they don't study the costs for things like heating, garbage etc...

Numbers vary up to "20 million people - almost 1/4th of the ~83.5 million population", but what about people using oil at work and gas/else at home? Another number I did read was ~3 million units, much of them in the 1-2 family buildings in the areas close to the former wall, here it was popular too and here 1 unit is for 1 or 2 family (depends on house), I think the more former West-Germany the more oil is found, and in former GDR less, except for newest buildings... the one source which also spoke about "german speaking" area oil heating in Austria/Switzerland added another 0.5 Million total I think. There was a interesting number which was so "low" that even me loving numbers forgot it, I guess a pretty modern site/number, all these german oil heaters running at unusual bad weather would only use <barrels? of heating oil Extra Light>, representing so and so much (or few) per cent of German or Worldwide crude oil consumption (Pre-Corona). 

US had a surprising small number in oil heaters, but many "Housing units" had no heating at all in the south of the southern states/areas and ofc Florida, Texas and California etc often only primitive but effective fireplaces or so, like a small camin almost never needed at the mexican border...

Edited November 28, 2020 by KilonBerlin