MP

America Could Go Fully Electric Right Now

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Wombat said:

Makes sense. If Canada is going to shift from gas heating to electric then it really needs to adopt heat pumps (Geothermal in that climate) and for that you need stable electric supply mid winter as baseload. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


There is a lot of "climate change", "green new deal" posts, permeating oil price.com  You really can't escape the propaganda.  It's a full court press especially in the MSM.  They are trying to shove it down our throats.  Meanwhile all the fires don't have any impact whatsoever.  Its just those darn internal combustion engines that are doing all the damage.  

CA is a perfect example of the result of trying to implement elimination of fossil fuels and LOOKIE HERE, the UK is expecting brownouts because the wind has taken a vacation.  Rest my case.  If the weak minds of america fall prey to the propaganda, we're all going to have to find ways to become SELF -SUFFICIENT in energy because it won't be there when you really need it.  What's happening in CA is going to spread to other demonrat controlled states, except perhaps Washington state because of their abundance of hydroelectric.  

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

3 hours ago, Guy Daley said:


There is a lot of "climate change", "green new deal" posts, permeating oil price.com  You really can't escape the propaganda.  It's a full court press especially in the MSM.  They are trying to shove it down our throats.  Meanwhile all the fires don't have any impact whatsoever.  Its just those darn internal combustion engines that are doing all the damage.  

CA is a perfect example of the result of trying to implement elimination of fossil fuels and LOOKIE HERE, the UK is expecting brownouts because the wind has taken a vacation.  Rest my case.  If the weak minds of america fall prey to the propaganda, we're all going to have to find ways to become SELF -SUFFICIENT in energy because it won't be there when you really need it.  What's happening in CA is going to spread to other demonrat controlled states, except perhaps Washington state because of their abundance of hydroelectric.  

I doubt it. We are not running any coal fired plant currently and have about 5.5GW of that in reserve. 

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=eds/main

Edited by NickW
Linky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, NickW said:

I doubt it. We are not running any coal fired plant currently and have about 5.5GW of that in reserve. 

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=eds/main

The UK is in the process of eliminating coal - PERIOD.  Same for rest of Europe.  Coal fire plants do NOT have a short start up like natural gas does.  I'm not sure what the hell you are doubting because you weren't specific, but it was in the news that the UK was expecting brownouts because the wind wasn't blowing as usual.  Are you doubting me or the news?  No idea, because you were absurdly unspecific.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12941736/lack-wind-national-grid-emergency-power-sources/

Just do a search on "lack of wind power" and the articles will pop up about the UK.  So just exactly, what are you doubting?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Guy Daley said:

The UK is in the process of eliminating coal - PERIOD.  Same for rest of Europe.  Coal fire plants do NOT have a short start up like natural gas does.  I'm not sure what the hell you are doubting because you weren't specific, but it was in the news that the UK was expecting brownouts because the wind wasn't blowing as usual.  Are you doubting me or the news?  No idea, because you were absurdly unspecific.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12941736/lack-wind-national-grid-emergency-power-sources/

Just do a search on "lack of wind power" and the articles will pop up about the UK.  So just exactly, what are you doubting?

My doubts are based on facts which are plain to see in the link I posted.

There are several GW of CCGT, about 5.5GW of Coal fired plant and about 800MW of OCGT unutilised capacity during this 'low wind period' so there is no imminent risk of brown or black outs unless some major plant goes off line suddenly. Furthermore if the supply runs tight this will send the price signal to neighbouring countries to up the interconnector deliveries. The UK has 5 GW of interconnectors now. In fact currently we are exporting 4GW to the continent. 

This time of year the same old stories are run by the Daily Fail, Telegraph etc in their annual anti wind crusade......

But longer term I agree - in the absence of building more long term gas storage, the UK will be very vulnerable as it will lack sufficient baseload (Coal & Nuclear) to withstand major shocks to the system. 

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Guy Daley said:

The UK is in the process of eliminating coal - PERIOD.  Same for rest of Europe.  Coal fire plants do NOT have a short start up like natural gas does.  I'm not sure what the hell you are doubting because you weren't specific, but it was in the news that the UK was expecting brownouts because the wind wasn't blowing as usual.  Are you doubting me or the news?  No idea, because you were absurdly unspecific.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12941736/lack-wind-national-grid-emergency-power-sources/

Just do a search on "lack of wind power" and the articles will pop up about the UK.  So just exactly, what are you doubting?

I was very specific - I stated there is 5.5GW of unutilised coal plant on standby. In my last post I further detailed other plant available on standby.

That coal fired plant can ramp from 0 to 100% output within about 8 hours. CCGT within 4 hours. 

Wind variability within that time frame is only a couple of % of predicted output which at current levels is less than 100MW variation. Dinorwic can deal with that with a turn of a dial. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

On 10/17/2020 at 5:23 PM, NickW said:

"This time of year the same old stories are run by the Daily Fail, Telegraph etc in their annual anti wind crusade......"

Okay, I understand MSM propaganda as much or more than the next person.  However, why would your media denigrate wind power when it's part of the globalist agenda to eliminate anything that generates carbon dioxide?  

Here in the US, the radical left politiicans promote The Green New Deal, non-stop as if carbon emissions were the source of evil.  CA state governor has gone so far as to issue an executive order mandating electric vehicles by 2030?  (only electric vehicles sold new).  

If your media is anti wind power then what renewable energy source are they pushing?  You don't have hydroelectric and solar is impractical.  What's left besides nuclear?  I can't believe that the nuclear industry is able to lobby everyone involved to make sure they are the last one standing.  

 

 

 

 

Edited by Guy Daley

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(edited)

6 minutes ago, Guy Daley said:

 

The UK is mined out of coal and its oil and gas reserves are diminishing rapidly. We don't have great Hydro resources nor copious amounts of sunshine. However along with Ireland we are the windiest country in Europe.  Wind offers an opportunity to generate some of our energy as opposed to being entirely reliant on imports. 

Longer term we need a secure nuclear baseload however the hiatus in new build since 1995 means the gap will need to be filled - thats being filled with gas, biomass, wind and solar. 

Edited by NickW
  • Great Response! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 10/17/2020 at 9:53 PM, Guy Daley said:

Meanwhile all the fires don't have any impact whatsoever.  Its just those darn internal combustion engines that are doing all the damage.  

CA is a perfect example of the result of trying to implement elimination of fossil fuels and LOOKIE HERE, the UK is expecting brownouts because the wind has taken a vacation.  Rest my case.  If the weak minds of america fall prey to the propaganda, we're all going to have to find ways to become SELF -SUFFICIENT in energy because it won't be there when you really need it.  What's happening in CA is going to spread to other demonrat controlled states, except perhaps Washington state because of their abundance of hydroelectric.  

I was in an online course the other day regarding implementation of microgrid integrated with renewable energy sources....... To my surprise, somewhere in the lessons, it was mentioned that in the Europe, sun peaks during summer, weak in winter; wind peaks during winter and weak on others time. And they have average efficiency of 20% or lower, after deducting out those days and months without sun and wind........... Not sure if I understood correctly that they are counteracting on the short comings with batteries that operate on merely 24 hours on storage...... :(

It was also mentioned that while using buck and boost converter to enable bidirectional flow of electricity, if both switches were turned off simultaneously, short circuit could occur..... Could this, introduction of bidirectional flow microgrid with renewable energy source, one of the reasons for frequent black out and one of the causes of accidental widespread fire, in California??

image.png.5908f1d2745adc22a96af8bc32c7fa1a.png

Before promoting blindly or rushing into enforcing abrupt-mass adoption of technologies existed since more than 60-70 years ago that are still not popular, there might be a need to understand the second meaning of the term or condition better ......... or no?

2 hours ago, NickW said:

The UK is mined out of coal and its oil and gas reserves are diminishing rapidly. We don't have great Hydro resources nor copious amounts of sunshine. However along with Ireland we are the windiest country in Europe.  Wind offers an opportunity to generate some of our energy as opposed to being entirely reliant on imports. 

Longer term we need a secure nuclear baseload however the hiatus in new build since 1995 means the gap will need to be filled - thats being filled with gas, biomass, wind and solar. 

Try something else that could be Independent of weather nor supply of fuel........ ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 8/14/2020 at 11:15 AM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Here Let me help you since it appears your critical mind has flown out the window: https://energyindustryreview.com/energy-efficiency/baker-hughes-lm9000-worlds-most-efficient-simple-cycle-gas-turbine/

Baker-Hughes-LM9000-Worlds-Most-Efficien

By the way combined cycle should be implemented on every single nuclear reactor and they would go from 30% efficient to 60% efficient overnight.  Oh the horrors, they would burn some natural gas. 

PS: Every single combined cycle(60% efficient) has a boiler.  Just in case you and your genius article can't figure that out...  Only difference is they call it an EVAPORATOR instead of boiler.

Let me help you Nuclear plants operate at less than 320 C and turbine output temperature of around 110 C or less, the gas turbine stage of a combined cycle plant operates at an exit 570 C which is the temperature required to make an efficient steam cycle, so a combined cycle nuclear plant is completely impractical.

Further the 60% efficiency figure touted by CC plants is at 15C near sea level and full load. Conditions rarely encountered at peak electrical demand so year round efficiency of combined cycle plants is rarely above about 48% 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, pfarley@bigpond.net.au said:

Let me help you Nuclear plants operate at less than 320 C and turbine output temperature of around 110 C or less, the gas turbine stage of a combined cycle plant operates at an exit 570 C which is the temperature required to make an efficient steam cycle, so a combined cycle nuclear plant is completely impractical.

Further the 60% efficiency figure touted by CC plants is at 15C near sea level and full load. Conditions rarely encountered at peak electrical demand so year round efficiency of combined cycle plants is rarely above about 48% 

I know I am wasting my time here...

Do you know what a heat exchanger is?

The outlet Temp of the Nuclear cycle is the INPUT to the natural gas which boosts the temperature.

And no, the outlet temp of a steam turbine is NEVER above 100C as there is this little thing called an expansion low pressure turbine used on all modern steam plants which is NOT present on the old nuclear plants and this addition alone would add ~10% to their total.  The outlet pressure of these turbines is lower than 0.2atm... and outlet temps of under 40C, before one adds in access to truly cold water. 

As for combined cycle year round efficiency... yea, cuz they are forced to have distribution capacity in reserve and forced to idle at non peak efficiency.  Of course part of this efficiency drain is the spinning reserve which is not counted as part of their overall efficiency.  Something the solar/wind boys drop onto the NG plants and pretend they are less efficient.  When Wind Solar get 75% capacity factor using energy backup and add that ENTIRE cost into their "cost" then we have apples to apples comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 10/18/2020 at 8:28 AM, NickW said:

I was very specific - I stated there is 5.5GW of unutilised coal plant on standby. In my last post I further detailed other plant available on standby.

That coal fired plant can ramp from 0 to 100% output within about 8 hours. CCGT within 4 hours. 

Wind variability within that time frame is only a couple of % of predicted output which at current levels is less than 100MW variation. Dinorwic can deal with that with a turn of a dial. 

Some big batteries will help big time!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.