.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

In regard to the OP:

Geothermal Energy Market Heats Up As Big Oil Moves In

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Geothermal-Energy-Market-Heats-Up-As-Big-Oil-Moves-In.html

Geothermal is a place big oil has a competitive advantage, since it involves drilling and completion. 

[BLA + 1,666]

On 10/4/2020 at 8:14 PM, Gerry Maddoux said:

I'm not pushing Total, understand, .  .  .  .  .  

 .   .   .   I agree with your overall premise: renewables and Big Oil don't go together. I could be very wrong but I think Total may be different and in a class all its own. While I couldn't recall the name at first, I remember looking into Saft pretty extensively. They're the real deal. 

 

Total SE invests in U.S. Hydrogen Fuel Cell EV Truck startup.

Video interview

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-09/total-adds-fuel-cell-truck-maker-to-alternative-energy-bets?in_source=postr_story_3

Yahoo Finance Article

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/french-broad-energy-company-total-120200387.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALk8wT4TS0715i46q-cdT4taNJDlm9i5Ha9_dmNQCbovgo8hJAP-ZGFohXkiaS6SD9uMuY2kFnIKQIk7cICSQ5Gdjz7bidfQ7k8KrH8iGkK9lGruqLvC6FKRIWTqqGfBsbNakk-rdaqPGz8lhi2W_QbCPxwh6AhS8CSa-aFcM2zA

Edited October 11, 2020 by BLA

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

Regarding geothermal, while these are usually drilled near tectonic plate boundaries, there are places where the magma comes very close to the surface. One of these is in Iceland (which gets quite a large proportion of its energy from geothermal). See below excerpt:

{Back in 2009, as part of the Icelandic Deep Drilling Project (IDDP), workers at the Krafla geothermal plant in northeast Iceland unexpectedly struck molten rock at only 6,890 feet (2,100 meters) depth, and with a temperature of 900-1000 degrees Celsius. It was an extremely rare occurrence, and only the second known instance (the other one being in Hawaii).}

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

5 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Regarding geothermal, while these are usually drilled near tectonic plate boundaries, there are places where the magma comes very close to the surface. One of these is in Iceland (which gets quite a large proportion of its energy from geothermal). See below excerpt:

{Back in 2009, as part of the Icelandic Deep Drilling Project (IDDP), workers at the Krafla geothermal plant in northeast Iceland unexpectedly struck molten rock at only 6,890 feet (2,100 meters) depth, and with a temperature of 900-1000 degrees Celsius. It was an extremely rare occurrence, and only the second known instance (the other one being in Hawaii).}

 

Iceland straddles a tectonic boundary and is full of volcanoes.  Hawaii is a mid plate hot spot volcano, the Puna geothermal plant was covered in lava two years ago, so yes magma comes to the surface. Just sayin'  

Edited October 11, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

^

Well . . . exactly!

It seems so ironic to me that "fracking" has become such a bad word, unless it is applied to a seismically-volatile situation. Crazy! 

Make no mistake: when you drill down and inject cold water close to magma in order to invoke fissures within the rocks, you are fracking. I understand the aesthetic appeal of clean geothermal energy, but in California when certain quantities of cold water are injected, seismic activity increases. I'm sure you're aware of that. To extrapolate, when you frack near the mantle, you're playing with fire.

In Puna, there are quite a few people who would go so far as to say that fracking caused the eruption. But still, they're about to restart the plant, because it produces "clean energy." I would imagine that if one calculated the SOX and NOX emitted by (possibly manmade) volcanic eruption from that fracking endeavor, and also figured in the economic cost of the volcano, it would be simply astounding.

Iceland could be an outlier. Or not. No one knows yet. As with any source, there will be unintended consequences whenever and however energy is harvested. My suspicion is that we will see some that will make methane emissions look like child's play. 

[Rob Kramer + 696]

On 10/9/2020 at 8:03 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

You really don't understand Tesla's business model. Car repairs are not a profit center for them and the credits are helpful but aren't critical. This article touches some of it:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2020/10/08/tesla-can-post-apple-like-margins-heres-how/#3e0d825b353d

more numbers https://dashboards.trefis.com/data/companies/TSLA/no-login-required/pNkbHhrb/A-Detailed-Look-At-How-Tesla-s-Battery-Costs-Impact-Its-Gross-Margins?fromforbesandarticle=trefis201008

https://electrek.co/2020/06/17/tesla-new-deal-panasonic-battery-supply/#disqus_thread

So they buy Panasonic batteries at a pace they don't control and at a pre assigned price. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

when you frack near the mantle, you're playing with fire.

Literally

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Rob Kramer said:

https://electrek.co/2020/06/17/tesla-new-deal-panasonic-battery-supply/#disqus_thread

So they buy Panasonic batteries at a pace they don't control and at a pre assigned price. 

For now they are working with other suppliers. Tesla is moving to its own battery production.

Tesla “Pilot” Battery Factory = 13th Largest Battery Factory in World https://cleantechnica.com/2020/09/24/tesla-pilot-battery-factory-13th-largest-in-world/ Panasonic is not involved with the Pilot factory. Panasonic is in the Nevada giga factory, the pilot plant is near the Fremont factory.

Tesla permit application reveals it wants to build batteries alongside Cybertrucks at its new Texas factory https://www.businessinsider.in/thelife/news/tesla-permit-application-reveals-it-wants-to-build-batteries-alongside-cybertrucks-at-its-new-texas-factory/articleshow/78580835.cms

Edited October 12, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 10/11/2020 at 5:46 AM, Dan Clemmensen said:

Are there any "pure play" H2 vehicle manufacturers? I thought those vehicles were being made by ICE companies. They will have some of the same problems as they will with EVs, plus the need to develop an H2 infrastructure.

Not yet, but Australia is working on it:

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/06/australia-gets-a-new-hydrogen-car-maker/

[BLA + 1,666]

On 10/10/2020 at 6:32 PM, Ward Smith said:

Nope. Here's how it really goes down. The UAW coerce management to sign a contract they can't afford, or effectively get driven out of business. Because the Big 3 got coerced by democrat government's over the years to make nice with the (Democrat aligned) unions, the UAW would always go after the weakest of the three, then once that company signed, they all were bound by its terms. A completely lunatic deal, which would have died with the auto bankruptcies in 2009, but Obama broke about 20 laws to keep the union deals afloat and illegally stick it to creditors. 

Your Kalifornistan governments do the exact same thing with pensions. They sign deals with municipal workers, police and fire they know they can't afford and leave it to subsequent administrations to clean up. They even lie and pretend they have budget surplus because their accounting doesn't acknowledge the liability of those promises. San Diego's liabilities alone can bankrupt the state. 

The Big Three legacy auto mfg new plants have been and will be built in Mexico. Auto Labor 1/3 of that in U.S.  

Trump's USMCA does help U.S. auto Labor some. . . .  But not enough.  USMCA will be very useful against foreign manufactured vehicles.  All three countries (U.S. , Can , Mex) required to negotiate together , as a group, with foreign mfg per USMCA or agreement is voided. (In other words U.S. is calling the shots)

Edited October 12, 2020 by BLA

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,246]

On 10/10/2020 at 10:45 PM, Ward Smith said:

Geothermal is a place big oil has a competitive advantage, since it involves drilling and completion. 

Yellowstone NP has enough Geo-therms (btu's) to power the whole nation but some Prez decided to make it a park. Wouldn't need them unsightly windmills, or oceans of solar distracting the beauty of the country. I personally don't care for windmills as they really are a liability to the bird-kills and if it was subsidized by the gov they'd really be in the hole. Them blades are non recyclable and end up in the landfills. What a load of cow manure they sold us. Nuclear still beats it hands down in efficiancy. Did I mention carbon-neutral? Imagine 50megawatt generators by the score running power to the whole west coast. Lots of steam there in ol' Yellowstone hehe.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Old-Ruffneck

[LANDMAN X + 181]

On 10/9/2020 at 3:29 PM, Gerry Maddoux said:

The value of Tesla is in lithium-ion battery expertise. In just a few short years Tesla went from having its batteries catching fire in various points of the world to building vast battery arrays for the storage of energy to be released upon demand as electricity. 

This thread has been great.  Gerry, enjoy your comments a lot as with so many others replying to this topic.  Have enjoyed many of your comments on many other topics.  The following link absolutely blew my mind on the amount of mining that will be required to get all the materials for all of the renewables everyone is talking about?  After seeing the science behind all the processes required to get us green, why not invest in mining equipment and keep the oil properties?  

    

 

 

 

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,246]

12 minutes ago, LANDMAN X said:

The following link absolutely blew my mind on the amount of mining that will be required to get all the materials for all of the renewables everyone is talking about?

Yup LANDMAN, it really is a load of cow manure the green deal will enforce in the next 10 - 20 years. Less profitable ways of getting our energy doesn't mean that "The Powers That Be" will go with that standard. Too much money is now invested in wasteful energy. The Video is spot on my earlier post. The amount of power in btu's to dig and haul and melt, shape, transport to location, the products are already deep in debt and investors no wanna take the loss so keep pumping them crappy things out.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

Appreciate above. 

Unfortunately, the oil and gas industry has played right into the hands of the "Green New Deal." 

How?

While the outcry grew louder over methane and ethane gas emissions, we released more and more of it. Needlessly. 

Everywhere there is abundant oil on earth, there seems to be even more natural gas. In order to get at the oil, the gas has to be dealt with. In the shale basins and Guyana, gas is vented and flared to the tune of trillions of tons. The world has taken note of that. 

Ironically, if the TRRC had abided by their own Statewide Rule 32 (can vent gas <24 hours, flare it <10 days), it would have slowed down drilling, raised the price of oil and gas, and we wouldn't be in this pickle we're in. Even more ironically, Mr. Biden will likely be better for oil and gas than was Mr. Trump, because regulations will tighten up and emissions will diminish, all of which will reduce production of oil and gas in the shale fields and raise the prices globally. 

But the renewables industry is on a tear. We're about to run this big experiment, starting with California. I wouldn't wish a calamity on anyone but California is both energy expensive and insecure, and it would appear that a massive change is about to be implemented with very little backup from the old tried and proven. I doubt it will go smoothly.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192]

On 10/8/2020 at 9:01 PM, Dan Clemmensen said:

Tesla's expertise is not building cars, but building factories that build cars.

🤣

Their expertise, is batteries and solar roofs.  Not auto manufacturing or building factories which they have had others do this for them...

If you wanted expertise building car manufacturing plants, go to Detroit, Munich, Toyota

The big difference is that TESLA is being led by Engineers instead of marketing/accountants who are risk adverse and know nothing about Engineering Manufacturing.  It helps that Musk's background has been Physics so he understands better than any other business major. 

PPS: Musk knows nothing about Auto/factory mass manufacturing.  He knows coding, he knows space as this has been his core interest since childhood, but Mechanical/Electrical Engineering?  He knows very little other than that which he is interested in.  He is a good front man for the actual Engineers and why they are doing VERY well and will CONTINUE to do very well as the Mutual fund accountants are NOT in charge.  Any corp who wants to do well?  Get rid of the accountant / business major CEO's who know nothing about manufacturing engineering.

[BLA + 1,666]

19 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Appreciate above. 

Unfortunately, the oil and gas industry has played right into the hands of the "Green New Deal." 

How?

While the outcry grew louder over methane and ethane gas emissions, we released more and more of it. Needlessly. 

Everywhere there is abundant oil on earth, there seems to be even more natural gas. In order to get at the oil, the gas has to be dealt with. In the shale basins and Guyana, gas is vented and flared to the tune of trillions of tons. The world has taken note of that. 

Ironically, if the TRRC had abided by their own Statewide Rule 32 (can vent gas <24 hours, flare it <10 days), it would have slowed down drilling, raised the price of oil and gas, and we wouldn't be in this pickle we're in. Even more ironically, Mr. Biden will likely be better for oil and gas than was Mr. Trump, because regulations will tighten up and emissions will diminish, all of which will reduce production of oil and gas in the shale fields and raise the prices globally. 

But the renewables industry is on a tear. We're about to run this big experiment, starting with California. I wouldn't wish a calamity on anyone but California is both energy expensive and insecure, and it would appear that a massive change is about to be implemented with very little backup from the old tried and proven. I doubt it will go smoothly.

                                                     .

Edited October 13, 2020 by BLA

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, BLA said:

                                                     .

?

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

35 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

?

??

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

3 hours ago, BLA said:

                                                     .

Ok, @BLA, are you doing this or are your comments being removed?

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

On 10/4/2020 at 9:19 AM, BLA said:

The Oil majors investing in Renewables is a PR move for most of the Oil Majors .  Just like the Exxon commercials showing development of turning algae into fuel. Better run out and invest in those algae farms. 

likewise, Dairy Farms are going out of business in the U.S.  .   .   .   .   does that mean they should invest in solar or wind power. 

The thought of EXXON , Chevron , Total , BP , etc  successfully building solar panels or building or buying solar farms or wind farms seems ridiculous to me.  Hydrogen economy .  .  maybe ? But what edge do they really have against present industrial gas companies ? Big Oil as battery companies .   .   .    not for my investment dollars. 

Not many know that in the early 1980s Exxon invested $ Billions in the office electronics to compete with Wang and IBM .  Is that their area of expertise ? How did that work out ?

Oil will be around for a while as there are many uses other than gasoline , but it will plateau and decline.  

The big question is simply how fast that will decline.  

1. How fast will EVs grow ? (faster than many think)

2. How fast will Governments (local, region, country) legislate green enforcement ? (faster than many think) 

3. How fast will the oil industry consolidate ( it's about to begin) . Like any Declining industry huge consolidation of EVERYTHING from majors to fracking.  

OP had a good article about majors selling over $100 billion of asset sales.  (at least $100 Billion. That number is low) . Companies like Chevron has been selling assets like PA and WV natural gas holdings  , whereas Exxon has written only minor percentage of their XTO $48 Billion purchase or their Imperial Oil Canadian Oil Sands investment.

It will be interesting to see what the OPEC Oil States do ?  Privatize ? These governments rely their oil industry to fund their operation and social programs.   I believe you will see these oil states pick even more partners as in  U.S. majors , Chinese majors or Russian majors.  Can't get the politics out of Mideast oil.  

I look at oil company investments as I would a long term bond.  (1) What's the duration ?  (2) What's the yield ? (3) Will they "default" on their current dividend.

Other topic:. Next Great EV Manufacturer

Rivian will start shipping their pick-up trucks and SUVs next year.  Their EV design is years ahead of competition

https://rivian.com/

 

Yawn!!!! anyone remember BP=Beyond Petroleum then it came back full cycle to BP =Back to Petroleum.

These companies are mostly running scared because of "enviro activists" so big big PR moves, and many years down the road they can write them off as losses.

There are some good initiatives to take for a better cleaner industry overall and techs to help improve recovery, emissions, efficient use of the entire chain and what we have in reserves and what is being produced and improving at all levels of the industry(s).

Refining will wither away as we know it today, major refiners are shutting refineries and getting rid of them but they havent come up with a better way to refine or improve the refining process whereby it uses less energy and yields more and to control emissions and same thing with power plants.

But there are ways and technologies to be developed, enhanced, improvised and what not.

 

I will tell you all that it is increasingly becoming difficult to deal with banks who are "shunning" and "denying" oil companies and resources companies access to funds, capital, equities and basic banking service to conduct daily business, specially smaller companies, regional companies who do not have access to a variety of financial markets access.

It started with the Paris Accord, the 2C, and companies and strip mining and Arctic drilling, now the banks have started targeting even fossil fuel trade, yes fossil fuel trade , buying selling crude oil, natgas because they are on the Harris-Biden push of no hydraulic fracturing. Yes and I wrote Harris-Biden!!!!!! most people will get it hahaha.

The banks are saying to their customers we wont offer you trade banking services required for selling your crude oil and gas because it was produced by using hydraulic fracturing.

Americans will get sick and tired of the high energy costs after a while.

 

[Rob Kramer + 696]

43 minutes ago, ceo_energemsier said:

Yawn!!!! anyone remember BP=Beyond Petroleum then it came back full cycle to BP =Back to Petroleum.

Americans will get sick and tired of the high energy costs after a while.

 

With NG rising through the year electricity will go up and fuel gasoline also after shale declines more and demand comes back . So ya there gonna get a tripple whammy . Canada is in the same boat but we already have higher prices and a worse economy.  It gets old fast. Kinda waiting for it to k lock some sence back into people . A large crowd has responded online so far when clicking on enbridge and hydro 1 adds . 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, ceo_energemsier said:

Yawn!!!! anyone remember BP=Beyond Petroleum then it came back full cycle to BP =Back to Petroleum.

These companies are mostly running scared because of "enviro activists" so big big PR moves, and many years down the road they can write them off as losses.

There are some good initiatives to take for a better cleaner industry overall and techs to help improve recovery, emissions, efficient use of the entire chain and what we have in reserves and what is being produced and improving at all levels of the industry(s).

Refining will wither away as we know it today, major refiners are shutting refineries and getting rid of them but they havent come up with a better way to refine or improve the refining process whereby it uses less energy and yields more and to control emissions and same thing with power plants.

But there are ways and technologies to be developed, enhanced, improvised and what not.

I will tell you all that it is increasingly becoming difficult to deal with banks who are "shunning" and "denying" oil companies and resources companies access to funds, capital, equities and basic banking service to conduct daily business, specially smaller companies, regional companies who do not have access to a variety of financial markets access.

It started with the Paris Accord, the 2C, and companies and strip mining and Arctic drilling, now the banks have started targeting even fossil fuel trade, yes fossil fuel trade , buying selling crude oil, natgas because they are on the Harris-Biden push of no hydraulic fracturing. Yes and I wrote Harris-Biden!!!!!! most people will get it hahaha.

The banks are saying to their customers we wont offer you trade banking services required for selling your crude oil and gas because it was produced by using hydraulic fracturing.

Americans will get sick and tired of the high energy costs after a while.

As one of those companies "developing, enhancing, improvising and what not" it is Criminal that Banks, who don't even spend their own money, but leverage based on their depositors, who include the companies they now shun. This all because of the activist "investors" who own trivial numbers of shares, but blackmail banks and investment firms into divesting fossil stocks. As a Chase Bank shareholder I was quite miffed when those putzes started in about them loaning money to fossil companies. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

On 10/12/2020 at 5:19 PM, Old-Ruffneck said:

Yellowstone NP has enough Geo-therms (btu's) to power the whole nation but some Prez decided to make it a park. 

That would be U.S. Grant and if you argued this with him you would be crying like a little baby.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

As one of those companies "developing, enhancing, improvising and what not" it is Criminal that Banks, who don't even spend their own money, but leverage based on their depositors, who include the companies they now shun. This all because of the activist "investors" who own trivial numbers of shares, but blackmail banks and investment firms into divesting fossil stocks. As a Chase Bank shareholder I was quite miffed when those putzes started in about them loaning money to fossil companies. 

Too hilarious! They couldn't have been activist investors 50 years ago because it has only been over that time that conservatives have changed the laws to make shareholder rights predominate. Now the activists are using your ideology and laws against you!  LOL!!

[Rob Kramer + 696]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

As one of those companies "developing, enhancing, improvising and what not" it is Criminal that Banks, who don't even spend their own money, but leverage based on their depositors, who include the companies they now shun. This all because of the activist "investors" who own trivial numbers of shares, but blackmail banks and investment firms into divesting fossil stocks. As a Chase Bank shareholder I was quite miffed when those putzes started in about them loaning money to fossil companies. 

Theres a twitter account : Patch and the guy who runs it has posted news links about Canadian banks smuggling/hiding north Korea money,  south American drug cartel money and fixing gold prices .... then posts these same banks are to pure to back Canadian fossil fuels ... we know the world is mad . Look at the movie "true story" NY times would rather have a guy who murdered his family contribute than a  journalist who combined stories to gain sympathy for kids in 3rd world situations.