War for Taiwan?

[frankfurter + 562]

For all of 2020, the USA govt and media has very strong rhetoric against China, and has now implemented a wide array of sanctions. China has responded with strong rhetoric and a few sanctions. China has desired to regain total control of Taiwan: whereas the USA has desired to prevent this. How such a conflict will end, and when, is moot at this time. But it raises key questions.

If China sends troops to Taiwan, are Americans prepared for a war with China to "liberate" Taiwan? How would this play out for Americans? Any war with China will be on a massive scale, and nuclear: unprecedented in history. Are Americans prepared for their massive deaths from such a war? What about the nuclear fallout that will poison the air and ocean for unknown time?  What would Americans hope to gain: there is simply nothing of value in Taiwan for America. China can retaliate to ensure America is on the receiving end of nuclear missiles. etc.

So let's hear from Americans.  Are you prepared to fight the most costly, the most deadly, most destructive war in history over an island of no value to you?

 

 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

No, Western Countries would happily seize all oversea China personal assets and use that for compensation for loss in a sanction with China. This means all the red capitalists would see their assets value evaporated and food and energy would be a problem. I wonder if Xi can demand such a sacrifice from  the internal CCP themselves for Taiwan.  Why should anyone care about the enemy's assets or loans?

And with the tech innovation evolving speed nowadays, soon China would be far far behind and would they pay Russian oil with RMB? US would be happy, Japan, Korea would be happy, Germany would be happy. Can China have great innovation from sticks without resources?

Deng was able to make the border war with Vietnam in 1979 to consolidate power because China had nothing to lose back then after the great lead forward and the great culture revolution (and partly most of the Vietnamese battalions was in Cambodia)

Edited November 9, 2020 by SUZNV

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

I've had Frankie on ignore but I can tell by the title he's back to doing the wumaodang's bidding. I've been following the news in Taiwan, they are the ones who released a lot of the most incriminating Biden dirt including full backgrounds on the parties the American media ignored (well let's be honest, the media could not have ignored more if they tried, which they did). 

Taiwan knows full well Biden will sell them down the river, it was arranged in advance. This means China gets TSMC, which means every single semiconductor you've heard of and a lot you haven't is going to be under their complete control. That is the prize. America can't build a Class 10 Fab overnight and we don't have the support infrastructure for post fab work anymore, thanks to years of neglect. We certainly have the best chip designers in the world, I used to work at one, but everyone went fabless in the 90's and TSMC was the beneficiary. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

On 11/8/2020 at 1:26 AM, frankfurter said:

So let's hear from Americans.  Are you prepared to fight the most costly, the most deadly, most destructive war in history over an island of no value to you?

Only if Taiwan would like to become a state (USA) within the next thirty days (which they might). 

 

48 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Taiwan knows full well Biden will sell them down the river, it was arranged in advance. This means China gets TSMC, which means every single semiconductor you've heard of and a lot you haven't is going to be under their complete control.

Ward's entirely right: the damn Taiwan Semiconductor is worth going to war for, by itself. 

 

On 11/8/2020 at 1:26 AM, frankfurter said:

Are you prepared to fight the most costly, the most deadly, most destructive war in history over an island of no value to you?

Bring it on. Viva Taiwan, USA!

[USAforwho 0]

Why did you even ask a stupid question? There will be no war at this time. Stop being a Trump's fool.

[Nikonos 0]

The US has no chance at defending Taiwan. For China, although the booty is good, the cost of a hard cold war would be higher. So it's a balance problem. At some point, if the US keeps decoupling from and isolating China, they might decide that benefits and costs are worth it. However, if the the US doesn't do that, China will overtake them in a few years and win many countries into its orbit.

This is the classical dilemma of a declining power. The declining power is always the threat, while the rising power has not the slightest interest in war, because time is on their side. But of course the propaganda of the declining power tells a very different story. 

[Michael Sanches + 187]

Interdicting the supply lines of any invading Chinese army will be easy. Any Chinese troops who reach Taiwan will have ammunition for about 2 hours and then will have to defend against Taiwanese counter attacks by giving the enemy the finger, since they won't have any bullets.

See Hitler and Operation Sea Lion to see how hopeless an invasion would be.

[RichieRich216 + 454]

If we Committed to the protection of Taiwan then I fully expect United States government will follow through with protecting Taiwan! We have many weapon’s that China can only dream about! The question to ask is would the VERY RICH China communist party be willing to take a nuclear strike in Beijing to accomplish taking Taiwan! At the end of the day only America has used these weapons. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

4 hours ago, RichieRich216 said:

If we Committed to the protection of Taiwan then I fully expect United States government will follow through with protecting Taiwan! We have many weapon’s that China can only dream about! The question to ask is would the VERY RICH China communist party be willing to take a nuclear strike in Beijing to accomplish taking Taiwan! At the end of the day only America has used these weapons. 

President Comrade Biden won't pull the trigger against his business partners in China. He plans on being twice as RICH as Trump by the time he cashes out, er "retires". 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

On 11/9/2020 at 7:55 AM, SUZNV said:

No, Western Countries would happily seize all oversea China personal assets and use that for compensation for loss in a sanction with China. This means all the red capitalists would see their assets value evaporated and food and energy would be a problem. I wonder if Xi can demand such a sacrifice from  the internal CCP themselves for Taiwan.  Why should anyone care about the enemy's assets or loans?

And with the tech innovation evolving speed nowadays, soon China would be far far behind and would they pay Russian oil with RMB? US would be happy, Japan, Korea would be happy, Germany would be happy. Can China have great innovation from sticks without resources?

Deng was able to make the border war with Vietnam in 1979 to consolidate power because China had nothing to lose back then after the great lead forward and the great culture revolution (and partly most of the Vietnamese battalions was in Cambodia)

Bingo!

[frankfurter + 562]

5 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

President Comrade Biden won't pull the trigger against his business partners in China. He plans on being twice as RICH as Trump by the time he cashes out, er "retires". 

you might be correct.

 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 11/9/2020 at 6:24 AM, Ward Smith said:

Taiwan knows full well Biden will sell them down the river, it was arranged in advance. This means China gets TSMC, which means every single semiconductor you've heard of and a lot you haven't is going to be under their complete control. That is the prize. America can't build a Class 10 Fab overnight and we don't have the support infrastructure for post fab work anymore, thanks to years of neglect. We certainly have the best chip designers in the world, I used to work at one, but everyone went fabless in the 90's and TSMC was the beneficiary. 

If a war breaks out and it looks like Taiwan is going to be overrun TSMC's fabs will be turned to rubble. I have a hard time seeing the PLA/PLAN being successful. The CCP isn't the only ones with a AA/AD defensive setup. Taiwan is well stocked with home grown precision weaponry. New generations of anti-ship missiles make any movement over the water at those ranges nearly impossible. Any ships trying to cross the straight will have a hell of a time surviving that trip, not to mention the welcome they'll receive when reaching Taiwan.

Let's hope none of this ever happens.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/02/11/as-china-continues-rapid-naval-expansion-the-us-navy-begins-stockpiling-ship-killing-missiles/

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32453/air-force-boss-alludes-to-work-on-new-top-secret-air-launched-anti-ship-weapons

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-f-35-pilots-love-naval-strike-missile-113991

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsiung_Feng_III

Edited November 11, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing

[Alan Pennock 0]

Yes, we should let them know we will keep our word. Appeasement does not work..If they wish to end the world as we know it, then might as well be now as well as later, because we know they will not stop...Attack us and/or our allies and it is fight to the death...They won't get anything but annilation out of it either.....If you are afraid to fight for right, what you believe in,  your freedon then someone will come take it away...garanteed.....The only other solution would be to negotiate with China and Taiwan and reach an agreement that everyone can agree to...otherwise ..aggression and force is not the answer and will be answered back with force. We will all live together or we will all die together...Get it together or leave it alone....status quo.

[shadowkin + 584]

Besides TSMC asking if Taiwan is of value to us is the same as asking if the Sudetenland had any value to us. Allowing the CCP to gobble up Taiwan would only embolden the CCP to attempt more invasions. She already claims all of the South China Sea. See 9 dash line. Really outrageous claims to territory right off the shore of all these countries.

CCP tactic is to invent some fake map and say 1 merchant traveled there 500 years ago therefore it's Chinese land and we are entitled to it.

[frankfurter + 562]

10 hours ago, shadowkin said:

Besides TSMC asking if Taiwan is of value to us is the same as asking if the Sudetenland had any value to us. Allowing the CCP to gobble up Taiwan would only embolden the CCP to attempt more invasions. She already claims all of the South China Sea. See 9 dash line. Really outrageous claims to territory right off the shore of all these countries.

CCP tactic is to invent some fake map and say 1 merchant traveled there 500 years ago therefore it's Chinese land and we are entitled to it.

So, given your response, are you in favour of starting a nuclear war over a small island of zero value to the US and which is not US territory?

 

 

 

[frankfurter + 562]

12 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

If a war breaks out and it looks like Taiwan is going to be overrun TSMC's fabs will be turned to rubble. I have a hard time seeing the PLA/PLAN being successful. The CCP isn't the only ones with a AA/AD defensive setup. Taiwan is well stocked with home grown precision weaponry. New generations of anti-ship missiles make any movement over the water at those ranges nearly impossible. Any ships trying to cross the straight will have a hell of a time surviving that trip, not to mention the welcome they'll receive when reaching Taiwan.

Let's hope none of this ever happens.

https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/02/11/as-china-continues-rapid-naval-expansion-the-us-navy-begins-stockpiling-ship-killing-missiles/

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32453/air-force-boss-alludes-to-work-on-new-top-secret-air-launched-anti-ship-weapons

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-f-35-pilots-love-naval-strike-missile-113991

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsiung_Feng_III

true, all parties have serious weaponry.  that is entirely the point.

but would you go to war over Taiwan?  an island of zero value to US and is not part of US territory?

 

[Boat + 1,325]

On 11/8/2020 at 2:26 AM, frankfurter said:

For all of 2020, the USA govt and media has very strong rhetoric against China, and has now implemented a wide array of sanctions. China has responded with strong rhetoric and a few sanctions. China has desired to regain total control of Taiwan: whereas the USA has desired to prevent this. How such a conflict will end, and when, is moot at this time. But it raises key questions.

If China sends troops to Taiwan, are Americans prepared for a war with China to "liberate" Taiwan? How would this play out for Americans? Any war with China will be on a massive scale, and nuclear: unprecedented in history. Are Americans prepared for their massive deaths from such a war? What about the nuclear fallout that will poison the air and ocean for unknown time?  What would Americans hope to gain: there is simply nothing of value in Taiwan for America. China can retaliate to ensure America is on the receiving end of nuclear missiles. etc.

So let's hear from Americans.  Are you prepared to fight the most costly, the most deadly, most destructive war in history over an island of no value to you?

 

 

Of course the US would retaliate over Taiwan, Hong Cong, South China Sea etc.

The reason there are not dozens of countries with nuclear weapons is the promise of retaliation by the US if your a basically fair trading partner with the Western world.

The US would have to demonstrate military superiority if China attacked basically anybody except Iran, N Korea, Syria, Russia. You know, traditional bad actors. But who knows the US might not like that either.

[Boat + 1,325]

Where the US has been very weak has been putting trade for corporations above our values.  Trump has moved in the right direction but needs to do much more. Like the path to total non trade if China doesn’t reform in many areas. 

[frankfurter + 562]

4 hours ago, Boat said:

Of course the US would retaliate over Taiwan, Hong Cong, South China Sea etc.

The reason there are not dozens of countries with nuclear weapons is the promise of retaliation by the US if your a basically fair trading partner with the Western world.

The US would have to demonstrate military superiority if China attacked basically anybody except Iran, N Korea, Syria, Russia. You know, traditional bad actors. But who knows the US might not like that either.

So, you would support a nuclear war?

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

On 11/10/2020 at 9:31 PM, Ward Smith said:

He plans on being twice as RICH as Trump by the time he cashes out, er "retires". 

"Twice as rich as trump" is low hanging fruit. 

 

[Boat + 1,325]

33 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

So, you would support a nuclear war?

I support China saying they will treat Hong Cong and Taiwan like our lower 48 treats Alaska and Hawaii. I want China to lay out a path where the trade imbalance is even. I want to see a path that will be equal and fair for both nations corporations when it comes to intellectual property. See where this is going? This same template should work for all countries. Time for civilization to catch up with the civilized. You rednecks need to drop the fear card. If these items can’t be worked out, end trade period. We need to work and trade with those we can.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Boat

[frankfurter + 562]

45 minutes ago, Boat said:

I support China saying they will treat Hong Cong and Taiwan like our lower 48 treats Alaska and Hawaii. I want China to lay out a path where the trade imbalance is even. I want to see a path that will be equal and fair for both nations corporations when it comes to intellectual property. See where this is going? This same template should work for all countries. Time for civilization to catch up with the civilized. You rednecks need to drop the fear card. If these items can’t be worked out, end trade period. We need to work and trade with those we can.

you have nicely sidetracked the question.

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

2 hours ago, frankfurter said:

So, you would support a nuclear war?

Frannyfuter you really need to put a cap on it. If your mind can get around the end of a civilization that is. 

You do not have any intellectual capacity in the slightest sense of the term. 

You once spoke to US anger,those written words provoke anger. The end of a civilization over trading Juju beans. 

Leading a conversation with your chin and provoking anger is a teenage trait.

 

[frankfurter + 562]

well, let's see...  The USA dropped 2 nuclear bombs onto Japan. The Soviets cooperated with Cuba to place nuclear-capable missiles into Cuba. Kennedy responded with a threat of nuclear war. Today, the USA wants to place nuclear-capable missiles into Taiwan, knowing full well this is a serious provocation to China. China claims Taiwan to be part of China.  The question is how far are Americans willing to go in arming and defending Taiwan: to the point of nuclear war with China?

You may consider the question to be the emanation of low intelligence. But I think not, and I know billions more like me think not, too. A few people in this 'community' have openly stated their desire for a nuclear war with China. I am asking a simple question to see what is the general mood and justifications. I would much rather learn this via a keyboard than via weapons.

[Uvuvwevwevwe Onyetenyevwe Ugwemuhwem Osas + 96]

Why hasn't ww3 started already?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russian_Sukhoi_Su-24_shootdown

https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/azerbaijan-shoots-down-russian-military-helicopter-over-armenia/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/russia-plane-shot-down-syria-accident-france-israel-war-us-kremlin-a8542401.html

No billionaire (Xi, Putin, Trump/Biden) will start ww3 because of some dead soldiers.

China has too many mouths to feed.  China has too many men.
China should invade Taiwan to improve its demographic situation.