Politicians lied, people died

[SUZNV + 1,197]

6 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

HCQ was never meant to cure a virus, frankly to date there is no known cure for the common cold which is a virus.

To migrate a cold it is common practice to use various types of medication. From aspirin to chicken soup, personally I enjoy whiskey and honey, a marvelous remedy also known as a hot today.

Yet it is now well known cytokine storms do kill the body destroys itself. HCQ mitigates these storm's, 

At a time when there was no known therapy for covid 19, science just walked away from any attempt to mitigate this storm.. How does something like that occur...it still stuns me,how many lives may have been saved.

 

I just want to point out that the requirement to prove HCQ effectiveness by applying to severe cases to discredit HCQ usefulness in Covid19 from the media or any scientist are ridiculous and political polarized.

Edited January 30, 2021 by SUZNV

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

4 minutes ago, SUZNV said:

I just want to clarify that the requirement to prove HCQ effectiveness by applying to severe cases from the media or any scientist are ridiculous and political polarized

Carl Sagan

We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.

We have arrived, power in the hands of a few is a very dangerous concept.

[SUZNV + 1,197]

10 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Carl Sagan

We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.

We have arrived, power in the hands of a few is a very dangerous concept.

Agree, if you don't have time or ability to research the new way yourselves, stick to the old proven working way. Don't follow the promises of politicians, or experts on media blindly, they all have hidden intentions when they come to media.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

15 hours ago, notsonice said:

ignore what you post? why would anyone believe anything you post as you post garbage all the time. The information is wrong because it does not fit into your garbage? If the drug is so good , please contact the AG of Oklahoma and buy it all up, I bet you he will give a great deal. Back up your claims and go buy the lot he has to offer, Other wise as usual you are posting garbage.

Your ignorance is duly noted. Here's a simple timeline even a buffoon like you can follow

 

[Symmetry + 109]

18 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

And what, pray tell, is wrong with prophylactic medicine? 

Many problems:

1) No drug is completely risk free, especially not HCQ which can have serious cardiac risks. Allergic reactions alone would be significant if distributed widely.

2) It can be expensive.

3) Must be taken correctly, essentially indefinitely.  Oral birth control and condoms work well with perfect use but you will still get lots of unwanted babies because people are not perfect.

 

Now if the prophylactic is effective, cheap and only needs to be taken rarely (ideally only once) that is good medicine.  You know, something like a vaccine...

Edited January 30, 2021 by Symmetry

[Symmetry + 109]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Your ignorance is duly noted. Here's a simple timeline even a buffoon like you can follow

 

 

Praise Biden!  Stuff you like is happening only days into his administration.

FYI Trump quickly stopped taking HCQ, got covid, then used a different medication to treat it.  Poster boy for HCQ there...

Trump correctly moved on and focused on vaccines. You should follow your leader.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 hours ago, Symmetry said:

Many problems:

1) No drug is completely risk free, especially not HCQ which can have serious cardiac risks. Allergic reactions alone would be significant if distributed widely.

2) It can be expensive.

3) Must be taken correctly, essentially indefinitely.  Oral birth control and condoms work well with perfect use but you will still get lots of unwanted babies because people are not perfect.

 

Now if the prophylactic is effective, cheap and only needs to be taken rarely (ideally only once) that is good medicine.  You know, something like a vaccine...

Well, duh!  On all points.  Did you come up with that response all by yourself?  Bless your heart.

[Symmetry + 109]

7 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Well, duh!  On all points. 

Then why didn't you understand? 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Symmetry

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

35 minutes ago, Symmetry said:

Then why didn't you understand? 

Oh, I understood alright.  You are at the back of the class trying to get attention.  So let's break it down for you.

1) No drug is completely risk free, especially not HCQ which can have serious cardiac risks. Allergic reactions alone would be significant if distributed widely.  True, no drug is risk free.  That's why we have this system of Doctor's prescriptions.  We don't hand out prescription medications without a prescription.

2) It can be expensive.  In some cases, that is true, but not in this one.

3) Must be taken correctly, essentially indefinitely.  Oral birth control and condoms work well with perfect use but you will still get lots of unwanted babies because people are not perfect.  Refer to point 1).  People who force birth control onto people that don't want to use them should expect failure of their projection.  People who want to use Hydroxychloroquine, see their doctors, get a prescription from their doctor, go to the pharmacy to fill the prescription and pay for it will most likely in all cases remember to take their medication.

Now if the prophylactic is effective, cheap and only needs to be taken rarely (ideally only once) that is good medicine.  You know, something like a vaccine...  How easily you forget that this discussion started before there were any other vaccines.  Now, because of President Trump's Operation Warp Speed, vaccines are hitting the market and being distributed.  Of course you and the rest of the Left said it would be impossible.  Now it's possible.  Unfortunately, some of these vaccines are not vaccines in the real sense of the word, and some of them are prohibitively expensive.

Now, you can raise your hand from the back of the class again and, when you speak, show the rest of the class that you haven't been paying attention (again) if you wish, but you might find yourself sitting alone at lunchtime, again.  Up to you.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 1/30/2021 at 4:00 PM, Symmetry said:

 

Praise Biden!  Stuff you like is happening only days into his administration.

FYI Trump quickly stopped taking HCQ, got covid, then used a different medication to treat it.  Poster boy for HCQ there...

Trump correctly moved on and focused on vaccines. You should follow your leader.

You should have quit while you were behind Enthalpic. 

Trump was following the (flawed) science. He didn't want to quit hcq but the freaking FDA yanked it. The fact that they suddenly change the rules just shows how fked up the system is and how deep the corruption goes. Biden didn't do sht and you know it. 

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

7 hours ago, Symmetry said:

Many problems:

1) No drug is completely risk free, especially not HCQ which can have serious cardiac risks. Allergic reactions alone would be significant if distributed widely.

2) It can be expensive.

3) Must be taken correctly, essentially indefinitely.  Oral birth control and condoms work well with perfect use but you will still get lots of unwanted babies because people are not perfect.

 

Now if the prophylactic is effective, cheap and only needs to be taken rarely (ideally only once) that is good medicine.  You know, something like a vaccine...

Big E, you have stated a heart attack risk, I state HCQ is safer than ibuprofen.

Care to call me out on this, you are beginning to become very tiring. A  assault on humanity does come to mind. Posting on a international forum pure misinformation , have you no shame?

@Selva

Edited January 31, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 1/30/2021 at 11:08 PM, Ward Smith said:

You should have quit while you were behind Enthalpic. 

Trump was following the (flawed) science. He didn't want to quit hcq but the freaking FDA yanked it. The fact that they suddenly change the rules just shows how fked up the system is and how deep the corruption goes. Biden didn't do sht and you know it. 

 

Thanks for asking for me.  Ha-ha!

That moment in time, that you speak of in your comment, that one moment in time revealed something that has been little addressed:

When the Deep State's unelected lifetime bureaucrats over at the FDA blocked HCQ, they did so with no alternative to offer, in fact they had no backup at all.  And then they covered their actions with science presented in a deceptive manner.  That has been discussed above ad nauseam.  The FDA "leadership" was not being part of the solution; they were acting as if they were a part of the problem.

That "something" I mentioned, was this nearly instantaneous moment when a several things happened with President Trump:

1. The President acknowledged that he had a big, stretched-out, fight on his administration's hands: the fight with the FDA to get their "ruling" reversed.
2. What the President did then was classic business executive: He added another course of action to his efforts by implementing Operation Warp Speed, a feet which was scoffed at and downright thrown in the mud as outright idiocy.
3. And then he made it happen. 

You know how I know Donald Trump made it happen?  Because it was not his detractors that made it happen.

In fact, as far as I can tell, it is largely the liberal "leaders" that are screaming that distribution is not being done right. 

Well, you've got yourselves governments run by Liberals.  You've been handed a bunch of vaccine that is 2-5 years ahead of all expectations.

Distribute it!

Or you could hold a protest and blame everyone except yourselves, which is essentially what the current "leaders" are doing.  Not leading, just pointing.  Warning: this method does not speed up distribution.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

In an honest society this would be highlighted and prosecuted. In the current society, it gets censored and ridiculed. We spotted the hypocrisy immediately, in real time and the useful idiots right here on this site were true to their programming and ridiculed us. Where are they now? Hiding and pretending they didn't say what we read them saying. 😈

[El Nikko + 2,145]

2020: Just wear a mask bigot

2021: Wear twelve masks bigot

[Symmetry + 109]

20 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

 

Trump was following the (flawed) science. He didn't want to quit hcq but the freaking FDA yanked it.

HCQ was never "yanked" from pharmacies or anything - his medical team certainly had access to it.  You can not be so naive to think the bloody President couldn't get a drug he wanted.

Heck, Trump went on to take Regeneron before it was approved. 

 

 

[Symmetry + 109]

20 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Big E, you have stated a heart attack risk, I state HCQ is safer than ibuprofen.

Care to call me out on this, you are beginning to become very tiring. A  assault on humanity does come to mind. Posting on a international forum pure misinformation , have you no shame?

 

The fact ibuprofen also carries risk doesn't make HCQ any safer, check your logic.  Regardless, clearly HCQ is believed to be more dangerous as it is Rx only and can be immediately dangerous to life.  Ibuprofen has to be taken frequently for months to have significant problems.

Pure misinformation, haha check the track records...

Crying to mods asking for cancel culture?  You can't handle, or censor, the truth.  You have to spew a lot of dangerous lies to have your internet voice taken away like Trump.   On that note 0R0 seems to have quieted down... 

[Symmetry + 109]

7 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

In an honest society this would be highlighted and prosecuted.

As would Trump's purposeful spreading of misinformation.  He is on record saying he knew covid was very dangerous but was purposely downplaying it. 

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

22 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

have you no shame?

No, he has no shame.  Remember that he, when cloaked as "Enphaltic," freely admitted that he was out of a job and mooching off his rich  yet naive girlfriend (and her parents).  Nope, no shame at all.  None.  But he will troll here all day long because he is unemployed and nobody, totally nobody, will hire him.  Ignore this guy. 

[Symmetry + 109]

2 hours ago, Symmetry said:

As would Trump's purposeful spreading of misinformation.  He is on record saying he knew covid was very dangerous but was purposely downplaying it. 

 

Down-voted why?  I can show you if you can't google it yourself.

Facts are facts.

[Symmetry + 109]

6 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

No, he has no shame.  Remember that he, when cloaked as "Enphaltic," freely admitted that he was out of a job and mooching off his rich  yet naive girlfriend (and her parents).  Nope, no shame at all.  None.  But he will troll here all day long because he is unemployed and nobody, totally nobody, will hire him.  Ignore this guy. 

Fantasies.

The Trump "landslide victory" or "election votes" threads leaking? 

Reality is tough for some.

Keep crying wolf fools - you will be listened to less-and-less if that is even possible.  I'm not talking about OilPrice, your haven of misinformation, the World has had enough of your factitious noise - look at Trump's twitter for reference.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Symmetry

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

3 hours ago, Symmetry said:

The fact ibuprofen also carries risk doesn't make HCQ any safer, check your logic.  Regardless, clearly HCQ is believed to be more dangerous as it is Rx only and can be immediately dangerous to life.  Ibuprofen has to be taken frequently for months to have significant problems.

Pure misinformation, haha check the track records...

Crying to mods asking for cancel culture?  You can't handle, or censor, the truth.  You have to spew a lot of dangerous lies to have your internet voice taken away like Trump.   On that note 0R0 seems to have quieted down... 

Mind of a Stalker: Why Torment Someone?

Stalkers are lonely and lack self-esteem, yet they feel very, very important.

By Jeanie Lerche Davis

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 1/29/2021 at 7:05 PM, notsonice said:

ignore what you post? why would anyone believe anything you post as you post garbage all the time. The information is wrong because it does not fit into your garbage? If the drug is so good , please contact the AG of Oklahoma and buy it all up, I bet you he will give a great deal. Back up your claims and go buy the lot he has to offer, Other wise as usual you are posting garbage.

We have vaccine now, HCL is plentiful and cheap, buying it up would not be a good financial move because the government is still propagandizing against it. We have Ivermectin prescriptions.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

1 hour ago, Jan van Eck said:

No, he has no shame.  Remember that he, when cloaked as "Enphaltic," freely admitted that he was out of a job and mooching off his rich  yet naive girlfriend (and her parents).  Nope, no shame at all.  None.  But he will troll here all day long because he is unemployed and nobody, totally nobody, will hire him.  Ignore this guy. 

I have always disliked the guest house, yet it has always been a nesscary evil. No matter the outcome.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:04 PM, Dan Warnick said:

It's worth posting @Eyes Wide Open's entire article.  This is simply a case where the medical community of doctors came together and presented overwhelming evidence, facts, and experience, and the government DID ACT in the public's best interest instead of partisan interest.  Granted the election's over so the nice governor may have seen no more reason to live the lie.  You be the judge:

 

MN Governor Quietly Reverses Course on Hydroxychloroquine

By Jon Miltimore

August 17, 2020

This past week Minnesota became the second state to reject regulations that effectively ban the controversial drug hydroxychloroquine for use by COVID-19 patients.

The decision, which comes two weeks after the Ohio Board of Pharmacy reversed an effective ban of its own, was rightfully praised by local health care advocates.  “We are pleased that Governor [Tim] Walz lifted his March 27 Executive Order 20-23 restrictions on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine,” said Twila Brase, president of Citizens’ Council for Health Freedom.

The reversal by Walz, a first-term Democrat, clears the way for doctors to prescribe hydroxychloroquine, a drug commonly used to treat malaria and other conditions but one the FDA has declined to recommend for COVID-19 treatment.

The decision is the latest development in the weird saga of arguably the most divisive drug in modern history. The acrimony began in March after President Trump tweeted that hydroxychloroquine had the potential to be “one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine” as a treatment for the coronavirus. 

The tweet and similar statements provoked an avalanche of media criticism, with many claiming that the president was going to get people killed. Critics pointed out that medical evidence suggests the medication is linked to a fatal arrhythmia and some trials show no benefits in coronavirus treatments.

Though his critics are likely loath to admit it, there’s reason to believe the president may have been on to something. In recent weeks a chorus of voices in the medical community has emerged to challenge the view that hydroxychloroquine is ineffective as a COVID treatment. Dr. Harvey A. Risch, a professor of epidemiology at the Yale School of Public Health, said a full analysis of the literature suggests hydroxychloroquine may be the key to defeating the coronavirus.

“Physicians who have been using these medications in the face of widespread skepticism have been truly heroic,” Risch wrote in Newsweek, adding that a full review of the COVID literature on the drug shows “clear-cut and significant benefits.”

Prescribing hydroxychloroquine in the early stages of the virus is key, Risch said, and others agree. Steven Hatfill, a veteran virologist and adjunct assistant professor at the George Washington University Medical Center, says the literature supporting hydroxychloroquine is overwhelming.

“There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections,” Hatfill wrote in RealClearPolitics. “There are 14 global studies that show neutral or negative results -- and 10 of them were of patients in very late stages of COVID-19, where no antiviral drug can be expected to have much effect.”

One of the positive studies, published by Henry Ford Health System, was a large-scale retrospective of six hospitals. Analyzing 2,541 patients, it found that those treated with hydroxychloroquine alone died at about half the rate of patients not treated with it.

It’s unclear if it was this research that prompted Walz to reverse his March ruling, which ordered the Board of Pharmacists to instruct pharmacists to not issue hydroxychloroquine prescriptions unless the diagnosis was “appropriate” -- which halted any off-label prescription requests. 

The reason it’s unclear is that Walz has been mum on why he rescinded his order. There’s been no announcement or new stories. Local lawmakers told me they had no idea Walz had reversed course.

“There’s been absolutely no transparency here,” said Dr. Scott Jensen, a Republican state senator who criticized Walz’s approach. Jensen, who has practiced medicine for more than 30 years in Minnesota, told me pharmacists he’s worked with for years told him they could not fill a hydroxychloroquine prescription for COVID because of the March executive order.

He agrees that hydroxychloroquine is terribly misunderstood by the public and said politicians need to take a step back. “Hydroxychloroquine is one of the most studied drugs in the history of mankind,” Jensen said. “My wife was on hydroxychloroquine for 15 years. It’s been on the World Health Organization’s list of essential medicines for decades. It’s been in play since 1955, the year after I was born.”

Hydroxychloroquine might be politically controversial, but that hasn’t stopped some of its critics from taking advantage of the drug. In a May interview, former presidential hopeful Sen. Amy Klobuchar admitted her husband was successfully treated with hydroxychloroquine, a medication she had mocked on Twitter.

The politics of hydroxychloroquine are unlikely to cool before November’s presidential election.  Yet, if Walz’s decision is any indication, at least some leaders are starting to recognize the ethical dilemma of using the long arm of government to stand between suffering patients and a drug that may have the potential to save them.

HCL should be over the counter IMHO. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 1/29/2021 at 9:04 PM, Dan Warnick said:

It's worth posting @Eyes Wide Open's entire article.  This is simply a case where the medical community of doctors came together and presented overwhelming evidence, facts, and experience, and the government DID ACT in the public's best interest instead of partisan interest.  Granted the election's over so the nice governor may have seen no more reason to live the lie.  You be the judge:

 

MN Governor Quietly Reverses Course on Hydroxychloroquine

By Jon Miltimore

August 17, 2020

This past week Minnesota became the second state to reject regulations that effectively ban the controversial drug hydroxychloroquine for use by COVID-19 patients.

The decision, which comes two weeks after the Ohio Board of Pharmacy reversed an effective ban of its own, was rightfully praised by local health care advocates.  “We are pleased that Governor [Tim] Walz lifted his March 27 Executive Order 20-23 restrictions on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine,” said Twila Brase, president of Citizens’ Council for Health Freedom.

The reversal by Walz, a first-term Democrat, clears the way for doctors to prescribe hydroxychloroquine, a drug commonly used to treat malaria and other conditions but one the FDA has declined to recommend for COVID-19 treatment.

The decision is the latest development in the weird saga of arguably the most divisive drug in modern history. The acrimony began in March after President Trump tweeted that hydroxychloroquine had the potential to be “one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine” as a treatment for the coronavirus. 

The tweet and similar statements provoked an avalanche of media criticism, with many claiming that the president was going to get people killed. Critics pointed out that medical evidence suggests the medication is linked to a fatal arrhythmia and some trials show no benefits in coronavirus treatments.

Though his critics are likely loath to admit it, there’s reason to believe the president may have been on to something. In recent weeks a chorus of voices in the medical community has emerged to challenge the view that hydroxychloroquine is ineffective as a COVID treatment. Dr. Harvey A. Risch, a professor of epidemiology at the Yale School of Public Health, said a full analysis of the literature suggests hydroxychloroquine may be the key to defeating the coronavirus.

“Physicians who have been using these medications in the face of widespread skepticism have been truly heroic,” Risch wrote in Newsweek, adding that a full review of the COVID literature on the drug shows “clear-cut and significant benefits.”

Prescribing hydroxychloroquine in the early stages of the virus is key, Risch said, and others agree. Steven Hatfill, a veteran virologist and adjunct assistant professor at the George Washington University Medical Center, says the literature supporting hydroxychloroquine is overwhelming.

“There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections,” Hatfill wrote in RealClearPolitics. “There are 14 global studies that show neutral or negative results -- and 10 of them were of patients in very late stages of COVID-19, where no antiviral drug can be expected to have much effect.”

One of the positive studies, published by Henry Ford Health System, was a large-scale retrospective of six hospitals. Analyzing 2,541 patients, it found that those treated with hydroxychloroquine alone died at about half the rate of patients not treated with it.

It’s unclear if it was this research that prompted Walz to reverse his March ruling, which ordered the Board of Pharmacists to instruct pharmacists to not issue hydroxychloroquine prescriptions unless the diagnosis was “appropriate” -- which halted any off-label prescription requests. 

The reason it’s unclear is that Walz has been mum on why he rescinded his order. There’s been no announcement or new stories. Local lawmakers told me they had no idea Walz had reversed course.

“There’s been absolutely no transparency here,” said Dr. Scott Jensen, a Republican state senator who criticized Walz’s approach. Jensen, who has practiced medicine for more than 30 years in Minnesota, told me pharmacists he’s worked with for years told him they could not fill a hydroxychloroquine prescription for COVID because of the March executive order.

He agrees that hydroxychloroquine is terribly misunderstood by the public and said politicians need to take a step back. “Hydroxychloroquine is one of the most studied drugs in the history of mankind,” Jensen said. “My wife was on hydroxychloroquine for 15 years. It’s been on the World Health Organization’s list of essential medicines for decades. It’s been in play since 1955, the year after I was born.”

Hydroxychloroquine might be politically controversial, but that hasn’t stopped some of its critics from taking advantage of the drug. In a May interview, former presidential hopeful Sen. Amy Klobuchar admitted her husband was successfully treated with hydroxychloroquine, a medication she had mocked on Twitter.

The politics of hydroxychloroquine are unlikely to cool before November’s presidential election.  Yet, if Walz’s decision is any indication, at least some leaders are starting to recognize the ethical dilemma of using the long arm of government to stand between suffering patients and a drug that may have the potential to save them.

HCL should be over the counter IMHO. Everyone should be taking vitamin D3 daily and several other beneficial supplements. The government has done little to promote the use of these supplements. 

I take zinc with tea as an ionophore, colloidal silver, B complex, C, multivitamin and mineral, quercitin and bromelain combined, double dose of D3. That is in addition to other supplements. I don't like taking that many pills and will cut some out after getting the two vaccinations and waiting two more weeks.