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(edited)

18 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Ron on this topic of retro fitting gasoline engines to a lng/propane ....it is a bad concept. Without going into to much detail gasoline engines have been designed/ evolved to combust gasoline. 

Gasoline vs a LNG product combust differently, maybe explode differently would be a better example. Gasoline explodes slowly compared to LNG, meaning the timing needs to changed first, then the cams need to be changed at the same time....Those two events are critical to maximize the combustion/explosion. When done properly compression rations may well exceed 18.1 or higher. In short that would destroy the cast internals, the remedy would be forged internals.

Can one convert a gas engine over yes, but the conversion creates a weak enefficent engine...a slug.

Ford created a eco-tech engine, take a close look at that engine and it's design. It is the closest engine made to run on LNG. Notice a few things 10:1 compression,forged internals, variable cam timings, and direct injection. All that tech is used to combust gasoline efficiently and when done correct Ford was able to realize 375hp and 375 ft lbs of tourgue...out of 3 liters of engine. Pull up to 12000 lbs of weight out of a 3 litre engine. That is astounding, unheard only a few yrs ago. 

LNG would be able to run at perhaps 18/20:1 the results would be incredible, a 7.3 v8 might well run semis down the road. It is all about efficiency and reliability and of course the money it takes to get there.

 

I think the crux of the difficulty here is that LNG or CNG isn't a retrofit for gasoline engines - it's a retrofit of diesel engines which commonly run on #2 fuel oil (aka diesel fuel) .  Both diesel and gasoline engines are ICE engines but they operate on dramatically different compression ratios.  Modern diesel engines are already at the compression ratios required for efficient use of natural gas as a feed fuel, but as you have pointed out here gasoline ICE engines operate on different principals and cannot reasonably be retrofitted.  

Edited by Eric Gagen
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On 6/15/2021 at 2:47 AM, Edoardo Di Giamberardino said:

well, I do not know if you read that the port of LA will equate Natural Gas trucks to ZEV trucks...it seems to me a good thing that goes into the direction or reducing particles emissions 

standards

CNG/LNG are approved as a transition solution only not permanent replacement.   CARB will let them run only when NOx is below Clean Air standards and that is influenced by the fuel the ships docking are burning. A fair number ships are running.5% S #6 and that uses up the NOx limits right there. .  They are garaged on days of non attainment days. Either way they are better than the dirty old diesel.

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(edited)

On 6/16/2021 at 5:15 AM, Eric Gagen said:

I think the crux of the difficulty here is that LNG or CNG isn't a retrofit for gasoline engines - it's a retrofit of diesel engines which commonly run on #2 fuel oil (aka diesel fuel) .  Both diesel and gasoline engines are ICE engines but they operate on dramatically different compression ratios.  Modern diesel engines are already at the compression ratios required for efficient use of natural gas as a feed fuel, but as you have pointed out here gasoline ICE engines operate on different principals and cannot reasonably be retrofitted.  

CNG is commonly retrofitted in gasoline engines throughout the world. Dual and tri fuel using alcohol also. They find a way to do it based on the price and availability of fuel. It has been done for many decades back to WW1. I have provided the information many times on this site. 

https://www.indiamart.com/carecylinders/retrofitting-cng-conversion.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicles_in_Brazil

https://www.hyliion.com/hybrid-cng/

Edited by ronwagn
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