GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Ecocharger + 1,470]

2 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

A zoomed in shot at Midway. One wind turbine with a tiny bit of 'disturbed earth' and three hydrocarbon extraction points, two of which have the 3 tank configuration for separating water from oil. The third one may be a DUC.

The original screen capture shows a lot more well pads. I suspect that the picture you've included obscures all this stuff due to the soybeans growing in the fields.

Where are the acres and acres of solar panels?  Don't see them. Or are they simply projected for some future Utopia?

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

6 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

On a "monthly" basis! Day-to-day, no, not as reliable. You have to add expensive back-up, which costs money, money, money.

Batteries aren't backup, they are profit generating value centers as they allow shifting of renewable production to the highest demand portion of the day. They make more money than they cost.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,470]

6 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Batteries aren't backup, they are profit generating value centers as they allow shifting of renewable production to the highest demand portion of the day. 

Batteries are costly, and getting costlier by the minute. Just look at the input prices rising on the markets.

If large-scale deployment ever happened, (which it won't), scarcities would push the prices up dramatically.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Ecocharger

[turbguy + 1,543]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

Batteries are costly, and getting costlier by the minute. Just look at the input prices rising on the markets.

If large-scale deployment ever happened, (which it won't), scarcities would push the prices up dramatically.

Chrome, nickel, cobalt, and moly ain't cheap either.

Fossil units use PLENTY of that stuff...

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

41 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Batteries are costly, and getting costlier by the minute. Just look at the input prices rising on the markets.

If large-scale deployment ever happened, (which it won't), scarcities would push the prices up dramatically.

Battery costs are decreasing, particularly grid batteries because they don't have to be lightweight. LFP and other chemistries that contain no expensive elements are used for grid batteries. Lithium prices are leveling off and are still way below their 2018 peak. More supply will start coming online. 

Utility-scale battery storage costs decreased nearly 70% between 2015 and 2018

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=45596

Edited April 29, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

https://energypost.eu/grid-scale-battery-costs-are-declining-faster-than-wind-and-solar/

[turbguy + 1,543]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

On a "monthly" basis! Day-to-day, no, not as reliable. You have to add expensive back-up, which costs money, money, money.

A lot of that "back-up" is already in place (as long as we stop mothballing stuff).  When it's not being used, it's not burning anything. 

Payment for "readiness for prompt service" is a challenge to overall costs, particularly in Texas.

Some of it isn't very prompt, some of it is.

Edited April 29, 2021 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,470]

30 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

https://energypost.eu/grid-scale-battery-costs-are-declining-faster-than-wind-and-solar/

Going forward, copper, cobalt, palladium. nickel prices going way up.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

49 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Going forward, copper, cobalt, palladium. nickel prices going way up.

None of those are used in grid batteries except possibly a little copper in some chemistries. As far as I can find the LFP batteries that Tesla uses have no copper.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,543]

15 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

None of those are used in grid batteries.

I think there's a lot of copper in a grid battery system, but they could switch to aluminum.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

19 minutes ago, turbguy said:

I think there's a lot of copper in a grid battery system, but they could switch to aluminum.

But that would be true of any power plant wouldn't it?

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,543]

18 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

But that would be true of any power plant wouldn't it?

Yup.  Silver plating helps at high-current junctions, too.

Aluminum could be a cheaper alternative in some instances.

Copper is EASY to recycle, too.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by turbguy

[specinho + 467]

On 4/24/2021 at 9:13 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Investment isn't that complicated and it is going to have huge benefits compared to the costs in our economy. But yes, those who have kept their head stuck in the ground and invested based on the out of date and incorrect information that is so widely disseminated around places like this will likely be caught with stranded assets.

 

Investment in the old days might be interpreted differently nowadays........

The elder generations would put out money only on things that will bring in returns on investment despite with risks. Never things that will incur losses for certain.

Gradually, for corporate social responsibilities, some started to support things that won't bring in benefits but helpful to the society and environment......

The latest version of evolution has been the finest....... This is roughly quoted from an economist in a recent online conference of WBG regarding debt resilience of countries due to covid 19.....:" Government spending is a must to stimulate economy.......". With this statement, it is understood that the market needs only in-pumping of money to create new jobs, sales, flow of money in the market etc, never too worry about deficits or if there is no return.

The shifting focus on funding on awareness building projects like, a ten year project of 10 million allocation to investigate how the poor pay the debts; millions dollar awareness education for people who do not have enough on the importance of having bank accounts in a less developed country; ~ 300 millions yearly fund for rohygya refugees back in their own country Bangladesh. For your additional info, Bangladesh has been very fortunate to receive nearly 3 billion out of 5 billion total development fund allocated for the whole developing countries in the past few years....... besides those 300 million annual allocation..........

Is investment complicated??....... Depends. The latest understanding could be the major turning point that has confused the financial world...... Disaster is probably not far.......

[specinho + 467]

On 4/26/2021 at 11:31 PM, Ecocharger said:

This is a risky business, if you pull too much CO2 out of the atmosphere, you risk reducing agricultural productivity and creating famines in many parts of the world.

Without much factories working and cars moving during lock down, many vineyards in Europe are plagued by rare Spring frost in April....... This might mean....... a total omission of fossil fuel could bring immediate detrimental effects .....

 

On 4/27/2021 at 5:29 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

If humans double atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO₂) from preindustrial levels, the planet will eventually warm between 1.5°C and 4.5°C—a temperature range that encompasses everything from a merely troubling rise to a catastrophic one.

The claim might be needed to facilitate taxing on carbon, which could be in astronomical number, to cover deficits. 😈

 

Imagine a temperature increment on a hot day between two concrete high rises...... it would be measured as more than 5 - 8 degree celcius in a day. The overall city aggregated temperature increment could be an average of 3 - 5 degree celcius, night to early morning temperature...... It might not cool down fast enough and hence affect the normal formation of land- sea breeze , rain patterns etc....... There might be more critical factors in need to be addressed and can be addressed easily, compared to handling CO2 alone...... or no??

Another point to ponder: what is the heat carrying capacity of CO2? This means, how much heat can a gas bring with it and heat up the environment?

A soft note on something overlooked in the modern science could be the waste heat and water vapour generated.........

On 4/28/2021 at 9:43 AM, surrept33 said:

Coral are very susceptible to increased amounts of dissolved carbonic acid (which is what a lot of CO2 ends up as) in the ocean. Coral bleaching is very much a thing:

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/coralreef-climate.html
 

According to a discussion on one of Harvard online courses, the sea is, by large, filled with alkaline minerals. The buffering capacity is hence, rather enormous.

 

Was reminded from a tentative diving trip that turned out snorkeling ( too much baby fat...... and forgot about the safety jacket put on...... 😳🙄), turbidity caused by busy tourist activities e.g. seabed disturbances, transportation; natural occurrences e.g. earth quakes, under water turbulence; could cause more harm than assumed acidity caused by higher level of dissolved CO2.

In addition, gas has rather low solvency in water. The ability to dissolve could be increased by dropping of water temperature. Therefore, the warming of sea surface temperature and increase acidity of sea water caused by increment of CO2 could be contradictory in certain way...... particularly for tropical areas with corals...... or no??

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by specinho

[Ecocharger + 1,470]

12 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

None of those are used in grid batteries except possibly a little copper in some chemistries. As far as I can find the LFP batteries that Tesla uses have no copper.

Grids will certainly transition into palladium to reduce weight, copper will be used as a basic input for batteries going forward.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Grids will certainly transition into palladium to reduce weight, copper will be used as a basic input for batteries going forward.

Why do you need to reduce the weight of a battery when it is stationary and sitting on top of a concrete foundation?

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,470]

3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Why do you need to reduce the weight of a battery when it is stationary and sitting on top of a concrete foundation?

 

Why carry around dead weight?  It does not sit still all the time, requires installation, replacement, repair.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

18 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Why carry around dead weight?  It does not sit still all the time, requires installation, replacement, repair.

Heavy batteries such as LFP have both lower upfront costs and far lower costs over time as they have much longer life than the lightweight metal batteries. Further, the cost of using expensive metals for a little weight reduction is a lot more than the expense of moving some extra weight once every 10 to 20 years.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[turbguy + 1,543]

35 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Why carry around dead weight?  It does not sit still all the time, requires installation, replacement, repair.

Not exactly "dead", more like "additional" weight.

Automobile manufacturers are sensitive to weight, making great strides to utilize that factor in the last decades to increase mileage. 

If she just sits, and she's cheaper while heavier, the additional cost for transport and handling are minuscule if other factors come into play.

Edited April 29, 2021 by turbguy

[Ecocharger + 1,470]

27 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Heavy batteries such as LFP have both lower upfront costs and far lower costs over time as they have much longer life than the lightweight metal batteries. Further, the cost of using expensive metals for a little weight reduction is a lot more than the expense of moving some extra weight once every 10 to 20 years.

Time will tell.

[Ecocharger + 1,470]

1 minute ago, turbguy said:

Not exactly "dead", more like "additional" weight.

Automobile manufacturers are sensitive to weight, making great strides to utilize that factor in the last decades to increase mileage. 

If she just sits, and she's cheap while heavier, the additional cost for transport and handling are minuscule if other factors come into play.

Time will tell.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Time will tell.

No time needed. We know right now that shipping costs of the batteries are a very minor component of grid battery cost. Even if you could cut the cost in half it would barely be noticeable.

Do you even know what a grid battery looks like?

Pictured is a 100MWh battery.

It is made up of truck trailer sized units. Shipping cost is the cost of a truck trip per unit.

Further we know that the extra weight of LFP is less important than the cost of lighweight metal batteries because if it was more important then the lightweight metal batteries would be used in grid batteries today. But they aren't.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Simon Hackett’s 73-hectare working sheep farm, The Vale, has now achieved energy independence through the deployment of 100 kilowatt-peak solar array and energy storage system consisting of 28 Redflow 10 kWh ZBM2  zinc-bromine flow batteries. https://www.pv-magazine-australia.com/2021/04/21/tasmanian-sheep-farm-installs-flow-battery-based-microgrid-system/

Note the solar panels not interfering with the livestock.

.

“The battery array makes extensive use of the Redflow Standby Power System (SPS) mode, allowing batteries to be fully charged during good solar weather days, and to then be ‘hibernated’ with zero self-discharge. During extended overcast periods, the SPS batteries are automatically activated to support site loads instead of using the grid. This unique strength of Redflow’s ZBM2 batteries allows the site to maximise both energy storage quantity and also energy storage efficiency.”

I'm sure this is going to blow eco's mind but these batteries don't even use lithium and they are built to pretty much weigh as much as they can.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,470]

3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

No time needed. We know right now that shipping costs of the batteries are a very minor component of grid battery cost. Even if you could cut the cost in half it would barely be noticeable.

Do you even know what a grid battery looks like?

Pictured is a 100MWh battery.

It is made up of truck trailer sized units. Shipping cost is the cost of a truck trip per unit.

Further we know that the extra weight of LFP is less important than the cost of lighweight metal batteries because if it was more important then the lightweight metal batteries would be used in grid batteries today. But they aren't.

 

The grid batteries are not on the road all day, Jay, did you miss that? They are a key drag on energy efficiency for the Electrified Vehicle, you need to lighten the load for those vehicles.

There will no need for EV's going forward, the convenience of Internal Combustion Engine vehicles is already being felt in the remarkable surge of ICE buying in the marketplace, which is driving the price increases in oil.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-Great-Car-Comeback-Brightens-Oil-Demand-Outlook.html

Edited April 30, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

The grid batteries are not on the road all day, Jay, did you miss that? They are a key drag on energy efficiency for the EV, you need to lighten the load for those vehicles.

There will no need for EV's going forward, the convenience of ICE vehicles is already being felt in the remarkable surge of ICE buying in the marketplace, which is driving the price increases in oil.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-Great-Car-Comeback-Brightens-Oil-Demand-Outlook.html

Nice try at changing the topic. You said several posts back that "Grids will certainly transition into palladium to reduce weight," and that is what has been refuted. I accept your concession.