GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,246]

3 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The Rivian starts at $67,500, not $125K. In 10 years you can buy a used one for a lot less, just like ice and not worry about it getting scratched. The added cost for 240V charging equipment is negligible. Easily made back with savings on fuel.

The Rivian R1T electric pickup Launch Edition will be priced starting at $75,000, with the R1S Launch Edition SUV to start at $77,500. Both Launch Editions will offer 300-plus miles of range, Rivian said, although an optional 400-mile battery pack for the R1T will be out in January 2022. This unit isn't capable of pulling a 16,000 pound to 20,000 pound trailer. Don't mix up luxury suv's with real Trucks.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

13 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

The Rivian R1T electric pickup Launch Edition will be priced starting at $75,000, with the R1S Launch Edition SUV to start at $77,500. Both Launch Editions will offer 300-plus miles of range, Rivian said, although an optional 400-mile battery pack for the R1T will be out in January 2022. This unit isn't capable of pulling a 16,000 pound to 20,000 pound trailer. Don't mix up luxury suv's with real Trucks.

Who said anything about the overpriced launch edition? The regular edition is scheduled for January 2022 with 300 miles at $67,500. It will have a 400 mile battery option for $10K more.

In a few years there will be EV trucks that can pull 16,000 to 20,000. Then 10 years later you can buy them used and not worry about scratches.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,246]

16 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Who said anything about the overpriced launch edition? The regular edition is scheduled for January 2022 with 300 miles. It will have a 400 mile battery option for $10K more.

In a few years there will be EV trucks that can pull 16,000 to 20,000. Then 10 years later you can buy them used and not worry about scratches.

You're somewhat clueless. How long have you been in business? You sure seem to have all the answers but in practicality we deal in todays market. Electric rates in Illinois are going up, yet to be determined. The whole electric vehicle is a scam on America. Without incentives the Rivian wouln't be here at the old Mitsubishi plant. Please research before you hammer away at the keyboard please. The photo above is just a suv with a box on it. It's no way near a Superduty Ford that i need in my line of work. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Old-Ruffneck

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

47 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

You're somewhat clueless. How long have you been in business? You sure seem to have all the answers but in practicality we deal in todays market. Electric rates in Illinois are going up, yet to be determined. The whole electric vehicle is a scam on America. Without incentives the Rivian wouln't be here at the old Mitsubishi plant. Please research before you hammer away at the keyboard please.

It is my job to understand what tomorrow's market is going to look like. Just like today's market is the outcome of yesterday's investment function, tomorrow's market is the outcome of today's investment function. Research is what I do most, clearly it is not something you are familiar with.

Did you know that lithium batteries decrease in cost by 28% for every doubling of installed capacity and that this has resulted in a 50% cost decrease every three years? This means that in 3-6 years EV's are going to be significantly cheaper than ICE.

Hopefully you know that almost no big company would be where they are without tax incentives? 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 5/1/2021 at 9:28 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Eventually non oil based materials will be developed and used.

Like what Jay?

Can you shed some light on what these are and how they would compete economically with oil based plastic products?

If you know something we don't then please share. I'm genuinely interested. There's no way plant based oils will be economically viable in my opinion for decades.

I'm actually in agreement with a lot of what you say as I do think the EV revolution is here to stay, mainly because it is political will not necessarily because its the best way forward. However we are going to need petrochemicals and more of them in the future.

Ecocharger is right about solar activity defining temperature and not Co2 levels, the model is pretty irrefutable in my eyes, climate change however is a scam getting a load of people very rich very quickly.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Rob Plant

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

3 hours ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

The Rivian R1T electric pickup Launch Edition will be priced starting at $75,000, with the R1S Launch Edition SUV to start at $77,500. Both Launch Editions will offer 300-plus miles of range, Rivian said, although an optional 400-mile battery pack for the R1T will be out in January 2022. This unit isn't capable of pulling a 16,000 pound to 20,000 pound trailer. Don't mix up luxury suv's with real Trucks.

Don't expect too much logic from Jay, just the usual puff ads about EV's. Like a company shill.

The bottom line is that EV's are unnecessary, the science which has whipped up public panic over climate alarmism is so far out of touch with reality, that the public will soon be ready to accept the new science on solar variables. That will signal the end of climate alarmism and the Green Revolution, which is really a Brown Revolution in disguise.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

Like what Jay?

Can you shed some light on what these are and how they would compete economically with oil based plastic products?

If you know something we don't then please share. I'm genuinely interested. There's no way plant based oils will be economically viable in my opinion for decades.

I'm actually in agreement with a lot of what you say as I do think the EV revolution is here to stay, mainly because it is political will not necessarily because its the best way forward. However we are going to need petrochemicals and more of them in the future.

Ecocharger is right about solar activity defining temperature and not Co2 levels, the model is pretty irrefutable in my eyes, climate change however is a scam getting a load of people very rich very quickly.

The EV transition is going to take decades so when I said "eventually" I meant decades away. It could be plant based polymers that we switch to but the exotics on the table are graphene and other one dimensional crystals. 

The EV transition is political for now but it will soon take over based on cost as battery costs are decreasing rapidly.

[JoMack + 549]

On 5/10/2021 at 7:10 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Who said anything about the overpriced launch edition? The regular edition is scheduled for January 2022 with 300 miles at $67,500. It will have a 400 mile battery option for $10K more.

In a few years there will be EV trucks that can pull 16,000 to 20,000. Then 10 years later you can buy them used and not worry about scratches.

Let's see:  U-G-L-Y!

[JoMack + 549]

SO, what's up with the hair on fire by Biden!  Call out the DOE!!  FEMA!!!  FBI!!! CIA!!!  BLINKEN!!!  EVERYONE - GET ON IT!!!  GET OUT OF BED!!!  A 'PIPELINE' IS SHUT DOWN!  

So what's all the hubbub?  I thought Biden wanted to kill pipelines?  Let's just go back oh so 3+ months ago, and in one fell swoop, 11,000 jobs gone, 800,000 bbls. a day of Canadian, Bakken crude, - down, so why all the fuss?   That 60 day moratorium on drilling and permitting on federal lands has gone way past that 60 days, and no one is paying any attention, who cares?   The Permian in NM is losing production by 40% but hey, who cares!  Welcome to the Biden world of climate change.  But, uh oh, that little burp on the Colonial Pipeline which is impacting the East Coast, or the BASE for Biden, might be a little wake up call?  So send out the troops, cause we don't want the public to actually experience the true face of the Greed New Deal.

[turbguy + 1,544]

15 minutes ago, JoMack said:

Let's see:  U-G-L-Y!

yeah, it kinda is...

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

8 minutes ago, turbguy said:

yeah, it kinda is...

The Ford F150 EV is being announced next week, no doubt will be more to your aesthetic inclination.  

[turbguy + 1,544]

7 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The Ford F150 EV is being announced next week, no doubt will be more to your aesthetic inclination.  

It might, if it is as utilitarian as this classic was (note, no radio or bluetooth)...

Edited May 12, 2021 by turbguy

[notsonice + 1,255]

Solar manufacturer plans hundreds of jobs in San Jose

Rooftop solar firm will place manufacturing and research in south San Jose

SAN JOSE — GAF Energy, a maker of integrated rooftop solar systems, has decided to shift its manufacturing operations — from Asia to San Jose — creating hundreds of new jobs in the South Bay.

The company has leased about 112,000 square feet at 5981 Optical Court in south San Jose, according to information provided by GAF Energy and the city of San Jose.

“We’re extremely excited to have found a home for our first combination R&D and manufacturing facility,” said Martin DeBono, president of GAF Energy.

The facility will employ about 400 people in manufacturing, engineering, and research, according to the company.

[-trance + 114]

Fleet of 40 public transit E-Buses have been deployed here, saw my first one today.

https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/transit/electric-buses.aspx

They claim 30% reduction in maintenance costs.

350Km off less than 4 hours of charging.   Not great, but not bad; as many bus routes only offer full-service in the morning and afternoon rush hours so they could easy do a midday charge.

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by -trance

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

5 hours ago, -trance said:

Fleet of 40 public transit E-Buses have been deployed here, saw my first one today.

https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plans/transit/electric-buses.aspx

They claim 30% reduction in maintenance costs.

350Km off less than 4 hours of charging.   Not great, but not bad; as many bus routes only offer full-service in the morning and afternoon rush hours so they could easy do a midday charge.

 

30% reduction compared to what? A jet airliner?  Some pitch.

I almost bought a tire last year that promised to last 25% longer......longer than a balloon.

[-trance + 114]

22 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

30% reduction compared to what? A jet airliner?  Some pitch.

I almost bought a tire last year that promised to last 25% longer......longer than a balloon.

The crap tons of other ICE buses they run:

- Low Floor 40' Buses 850

- 60' Articulated Buses 33

- Community Buses 49

- Paratransit Buses 100

 

They consulted the service department during the procurement and testing process. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by -trance

[-trance + 114]

If you read the details of the testing they filled them with sandbags and drove them up the steepest hills here in the middle of winter.

[JoMack + 549]

All eyes are on the hack at the Colonial Pipeline and gas lines are forming, Granholm at DOE tells everyone to calm down, as our illustrious Energy Secretary tells us "I've spoken to the CEO at Colonial and the line will be open by 5 p.m. today, or before.  So she waved her magic wand, and her power fizzled.  As the people on the East Coast are stuck, and the lines at the gas station build, Granholm haughtily points out that these suckers wouldn't be in the position they're in if they were driving EVs!  So, the Secretary of Energy points to EVs, which we all know are charged using coal and natural gas.  So, what is the point of that since it's pipelines that are the issue, no?

So, meanwhile the East Coast is not receiving its petroleum products, no one is watching the north part of the country.  Again, another Biden sycopnant and total moron, Governor Whitmer is trying hard to shutter a pipeline in Michigan with light crude moving from Canada:  Here's some of yesterday's story on the 63 year old Line 5 pipeline replacement section:

Whitmer, backed by environmentalists and native tribes, says the segment is vulnerable to a catastrophic spill in the cold, swirling channel. She revoked an easement last November that Michigan had granted in 1953 for the pipes to occupy the lake bottom and ordered them closed by May 12.

Enbridge insists the segment is in good condition and says its loss would cause economic damage in both countries, a position shared by the Canadian government, which filed a legal brief Tuesday in support of the company.

In her letter to Vern Yu, Enbridge's executive vice president for liquids pipelines, Whitmer said continued operation of the line after Wednesday “constitutes an intentional trespass" and that the company would do so “at its own risk.”

“If the state prevails in the underlying litigation, Enbridge will face the prospect of having to disgorge to the state all profits it derives from its wrongful use of the easement lands following that date,” Whitmer said.

Enbridge argues that the state has no authority to order the shutdown because the federal Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration oversees interstate pipelines.

“We will not stop operating the pipeline unless we are ordered by a court or our regulator, which we view as highly unlikely,” spokesman Ryan Duffy said. "Line 5 is operating safely, reliably and is in compliance with the law.”

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel filed a lawsuit last fall in support of Whitmer's order, while Enbridge countersued in federal court and wants the matter decided there. A federal judge is considering which court should have jurisdiction.

Nessel’s office said it will continue seeking a shutdown order.

“We are reviewing other remedies that may be available to the state if Enbridge continues to operate the pipelines after the deadline,” spokeswoman Lynsey Mukomel said.

Although U.S. District Judge Janet Neff has ordered mediation, the latest developments suggested the two sides remained deeply entrenched.

Canada's brief, filed in federal court, urged further efforts to reach a settlement.

“Line 5 is essential to our energy security,” said Seamus O'Regan Jr., minister of natural resources. “It heats both Canadian and American homes. It supports both Canadian and American jobs.”

Advocacy groups stepped up the pressure.

In Lansing, labor organizers spread 1,200 hard hats across the grounds of the Michigan Capitol, saying they represented jobs that would be lost without the pipeline. Among them were members of a union representing workers at a refinery in Toledo, Ohio.

“If Line 5 were to shut down, we don’t have alternatives to get our crude oil to the refinery because of where we are and the infrastructure that we have,” said Justin Donley, president of Local 912. "So our refinery would likely shut down.”

The Consumer Energy Alliance, a business coalition, said a shutdown would imperil 33,000 jobs and cause at least $20.8 billion in economic losses in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania. Environmentalists said a spill in the straits would be far more costly.

“The decrepit, deteriorating and dangerous Line 5 pipeline is an ecological and public health tragedy waiting to happen in the world’s largest freshwater lakes,” said Collin O’Mara, president and CEO of the National Wildlife Federation.

The Bay Mills Indian Community, which has treaty-recognized fishing rights in the Straits of Mackinac, approved a resolution Monday that “banishes” the underwater pipelines from its territory.

“Enbridge’s continued harm to our treaty rights, our environment, our history, our citizens, and our culture, is a prime example of how banishment should be used,” said Whitney Gravelle, president of the tribe's Executive Council. “Banishment is a permanent and final action that is used to protect all that we hold dear.”

Enbridge is seeking state and federal permits to drill a $500 million tunnel beneath the straits to house a new pipeline, which supporters say would remove any threat of a leak. Opponents say the project carries its own environmental risks.

___

Flesher reported from Traverse City, Michigan. AP correspondent Rob Gillies contributed from Toronto. Nichols is a corps member for the Associated Press/Report for America Statehouse News Initiative. Report for America is a nonprofit national service program that places journalists in local newsrooms to report on undercovered issues.

 

Our goal is to create a safe and engaging place for users to connect over interests and passions. In order to improve our community experience, we are temporarily suspending article commenting.

 

Recommended Stories

• 

  The Wall Street Journal

  Michigan Threatens Enbridge’s Profits in Great Lakes Pipeline Dispute

   

  Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and Daniel Eichinger, director of Michigan’s natural resources department, remind the company in a letter that the state revoked a permit that allowed the Line 5 pipeline to run along the bottom of the Straits of Mackinac.

  2d ago

   
• 

  Bloomberg

  Enbridge Vows to Keep Oil Moving as Michigan Deadline Nears

   

  (Bloomberg) -- Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer says Enbridge Inc. has until Wednesday to shut a huge crude pipeline that crosses the Great Lakes. The Canadian company says it’s got the law on its side, and the oil will keep flowing.The standoff is the latest milepost in the increasingly tense dispute over Line 5, a 540,000 barrel-a-day line that supplies half of the oil and propane used by parts of the U.S. Midwest and Ontario.Whitmer argues the pipeline, built in 1953, is too exposed to potential accidents where it crosses at the Straits of Mackinac in the northern part of the state. But the two sides are in a court-ordered mediation, and Enbridge plans to keep the line running while that plays out -- prompting Whitmer to threaten to sue to take any profits it makes. The stakes are significant. Shutting the pipeline would require tens of thousands of trucks and hundreds of rail cars to transport oil and fuel by road, Enbridge has warned. Homeowners that rely on propane to warm their homes in Michigan could see prices increase. Airports in Detroit and Toronto receive jet fuel from local refineries supplied by Line 5.As the cyberattack on the Colonial Pipeline has shown, the loss of a major pipeline, even temporarily, can roil markets for crude and refined products. Whitmer, who faces a potentially difficult re-election fight next year, is trying to shut the Enbridge line years before a replacement can be built.Canada submitted an amicus brief to a U.S. federal court in Michigan on Tuesday in an effort to boost Enbridge’s case. The document “coveys Canada’s belief that the U.S. federal court is the proper jurisdiction to hear the case between Michigan and Enbridge,” Natural Resources Minister Seamus O’Regan said in an emailed statement.“We intend to continue to operate the line and certainly we’re in compliance with the easement and the law,” Al Monaco, Enbridge’s chief executive officer, said on an earnings call Friday. “Courts are reviewing the state’s challenge to the pipeline and that’s going to take a while. So no decisions, in our view, are imminent.”Read more: Gas Stations Run Dry as Pipeline Races to Recover From HackingThe dispute has soured relations between the U.S. and Canada three months after President Joe Biden, a Whitmer ally, angered Canadians by revoking a permit to the build cross-border Keystone XL pipeline. While the Keystone decision was disappointing, the continued operation of Line 5 is “nonnegotiable,” O’Regan said in an interview last month.The state of Michigan “intends to assert claims for trespass and unjust enrichment” and if it wins, the company will have to disgorge its future Line 5 profits, Whitmer said in a letter to Enbridge on Tuesday. Pipelines have become a major battlefront in the fight between the fossil fuel industry and environmentalists concerned about climate change and the impact of oil spills on waterways and indigenous communities. If Whitmer eventually gets her way, a Line 5 shutdown could mark the first time a major in-service oil pipeline is forced to shutter because of environmental concerns.A U.S. judge isn’t expected to rule on whether the case belongs in state or federal court until later this year, so don’t expect the pipeline to stop operating any time soon, Matthew Taylor, an analyst at Tudor Pickering & Holt, said in a note. “We view a near-term shutdown unlikely,” he said.Enbridge plans to address concern about Line 5 by building a tunnel under the straits to house a new pipeline. Should the existing one be shut, the company has some capacity on an alternate line that bypasses the Great Lakes “but it’s not going to make a difference,” Monaco said.The governor’s order is unenforcible without a separate order by a judge and there is “no way that’s going to happen” by the May 12 deadline, Joe Comartin, Canada’s consul-general in Detroit, said by phone. What’s more, the case is already before a federal court; any decision supporting the governor’s move would would be appealed in a process that would take years.On Wednesday, pro- and anti-Line 5 protesters are expected to gather in Michigan and there will probably be an exchange of harsh words between Enbridge and Whitmer, but nothing more, Comartin said. Even if the governor’s order were eventually upheld, Canada could invoke a 1970s-era treaty with the U.S. that prevents either government from blocking petroleum flows, he said.(Updates with Michigan warning to Enbridge about profit in third and ninth paragraphs.)

   

   

[notsonice + 1,255]

3 hours ago, JoMack said:

All eyes are on the hack at the Colonial Pipeline and gas lines are forming, Granholm at DOE tells everyone to calm down, as our illustrious Energy Secretary tells us "I've spoken to the CEO at Colonial and the line will be open by 5 p.m. today, or before.  So she waved her magic wand, and her power fizzled.  As the people on the East Coast are stuck, and the lines at the gas station build, Granholm haughtily points out that these suckers wouldn't be in the position they're in if they were driving EVs!  So, the Secretary of Energy points to EVs, which we all know are charged using coal and natural gas.  So, what is the point of that since it's pipelines that are the issue, no?

So, meanwhile the East Coast is not receiving its petroleum products, no one is watching the north part of the country.  Again, another Biden sycopnant and total moron, Governor Whitmer is trying hard to shutter a pipeline in Michigan with light crude moving from Canada:  Here's some of yesterday's story on the 63 year old Line 5 pipeline replacement section:

Whitmer, backed by environmentalists and native tribes, says the segment is vulnerable to a catastrophic spill in the cold, swirling channel. She revoked an easement last November that Michigan had granted in 1953 for the pipes to occupy the lake bottom and ordered them closed by May 12.

Enbridge insists the segment is in good condition and says its loss would cause economic damage in both countries, a position shared by the Canadian government, which filed a legal brief Tuesday in support of the company.

In her letter to Vern Yu, Enbridge's executive vice president for liquids pipelines, Whitmer said continued operation of the line after Wednesday “constitutes an intentional trespass" and that the company would do so “at its own risk.”

“If the state prevails in the underlying litigation, Enbridge will face the prospect of having to disgorge to the state all profits it derives from its wrongful use of the easement lands following that date,” Whitmer said.

Enbridge argues that the state has no authority to order the shutdown because the federal Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration oversees interstate pipelines.

“We will not stop operating the pipeline unless we are ordered by a court or our regulator, which we view as highly unlikely,” spokesman Ryan Duffy said. "Line 5 is operating safely, reliably and is in compliance with the law.”

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel filed a lawsuit last fall in support of Whitmer's order, while Enbridge countersued in federal court and wants the matter decided there. A federal judge is considering which court should have jurisdiction.

Nessel’s office said it will continue seeking a shutdown order.

“We are reviewing other remedies that may be available to the state if Enbridge continues to operate the pipelines after the deadline,” spokeswoman Lynsey Mukomel said.

Although U.S. District Judge Janet Neff has ordered mediation, the latest developments suggested the two sides remained deeply entrenched.

Canada's brief, filed in federal court, urged further efforts to reach a settlement.

“Line 5 is essential to our energy security,” said Seamus O'Regan Jr., minister of natural resources. “It heats both Canadian and American homes. It supports both Canadian and American jobs.”

Advocacy groups stepped up the pressure.

In Lansing, labor organizers spread 1,200 hard hats across the grounds of the Michigan Capitol, saying they represented jobs that would be lost without the pipeline. Among them were members of a union representing workers at a refinery in Toledo, Ohio.

“If Line 5 were to shut down, we don’t have alternatives to get our crude oil to the refinery because of where we are and the infrastructure that we have,” said Justin Donley, president of Local 912. "So our refinery would likely shut down.”

The Consumer Energy Alliance, a business coalition, said a shutdown would imperil 33,000 jobs and cause at least $20.8 billion in economic losses in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania. Environmentalists said a spill in the straits would be far more costly.

“The decrepit, deteriorating and dangerous Line 5 pipeline is an ecological and public health tragedy waiting to happen in the world’s largest freshwater lakes,” said Collin O’Mara, president and CEO of the National Wildlife Federation.

The Bay Mills Indian Community, which has treaty-recognized fishing rights in the Straits of Mackinac, approved a resolution Monday that “banishes” the underwater pipelines from its territory.

“Enbridge’s continued harm to our treaty rights, our environment, our history, our citizens, and our culture, is a prime example of how banishment should be used,” said Whitney Gravelle, president of the tribe's Executive Council. “Banishment is a permanent and final action that is used to protect all that we hold dear.”

Enbridge is seeking state and federal permits to drill a $500 million tunnel beneath the straits to house a new pipeline, which supporters say would remove any threat of a leak. Opponents say the project carries its own environmental risks.

___

Flesher reported from Traverse City, Michigan. AP correspondent Rob Gillies contributed from Toronto. Nichols is a corps member for the Associated Press/Report for America Statehouse News Initiative. Report for America is a nonprofit national service program that places journalists in local newsrooms to report on undercovered issues.

 

Our goal is to create a safe and engaging place for users to connect over interests and passions. In order to improve our community experience, we are temporarily suspending article commenting.

 

Recommended Stories

• 

  The Wall Street Journal

  Michigan Threatens Enbridge’s Profits in Great Lakes Pipeline Dispute

   

  Gov. Gretchen Whitmer and Daniel Eichinger, director of Michigan’s natural resources department, remind the company in a letter that the state revoked a permit that allowed the Line 5 pipeline to run along the bottom of the Straits of Mackinac.

  2d ago

   
• 

  Bloomberg

  Enbridge Vows to Keep Oil Moving as Michigan Deadline Nears

   

  (Bloomberg) -- Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer says Enbridge Inc. has until Wednesday to shut a huge crude pipeline that crosses the Great Lakes. The Canadian company says it’s got the law on its side, and the oil will keep flowing.The standoff is the latest milepost in the increasingly tense dispute over Line 5, a 540,000 barrel-a-day line that supplies half of the oil and propane used by parts of the U.S. Midwest and Ontario.Whitmer argues the pipeline, built in 1953, is too exposed to potential accidents where it crosses at the Straits of Mackinac in the northern part of the state. But the two sides are in a court-ordered mediation, and Enbridge plans to keep the line running while that plays out -- prompting Whitmer to threaten to sue to take any profits it makes. The stakes are significant. Shutting the pipeline would require tens of thousands of trucks and hundreds of rail cars to transport oil and fuel by road, Enbridge has warned. Homeowners that rely on propane to warm their homes in Michigan could see prices increase. Airports in Detroit and Toronto receive jet fuel from local refineries supplied by Line 5.As the cyberattack on the Colonial Pipeline has shown, the loss of a major pipeline, even temporarily, can roil markets for crude and refined products. Whitmer, who faces a potentially difficult re-election fight next year, is trying to shut the Enbridge line years before a replacement can be built.Canada submitted an amicus brief to a U.S. federal court in Michigan on Tuesday in an effort to boost Enbridge’s case. The document “coveys Canada’s belief that the U.S. federal court is the proper jurisdiction to hear the case between Michigan and Enbridge,” Natural Resources Minister Seamus O’Regan said in an emailed statement.“We intend to continue to operate the line and certainly we’re in compliance with the easement and the law,” Al Monaco, Enbridge’s chief executive officer, said on an earnings call Friday. “Courts are reviewing the state’s challenge to the pipeline and that’s going to take a while. So no decisions, in our view, are imminent.”Read more: Gas Stations Run Dry as Pipeline Races to Recover From HackingThe dispute has soured relations between the U.S. and Canada three months after President Joe Biden, a Whitmer ally, angered Canadians by revoking a permit to the build cross-border Keystone XL pipeline. While the Keystone decision was disappointing, the continued operation of Line 5 is “nonnegotiable,” O’Regan said in an interview last month.The state of Michigan “intends to assert claims for trespass and unjust enrichment” and if it wins, the company will have to disgorge its future Line 5 profits, Whitmer said in a letter to Enbridge on Tuesday. Pipelines have become a major battlefront in the fight between the fossil fuel industry and environmentalists concerned about climate change and the impact of oil spills on waterways and indigenous communities. If Whitmer eventually gets her way, a Line 5 shutdown could mark the first time a major in-service oil pipeline is forced to shutter because of environmental concerns.A U.S. judge isn’t expected to rule on whether the case belongs in state or federal court until later this year, so don’t expect the pipeline to stop operating any time soon, Matthew Taylor, an analyst at Tudor Pickering & Holt, said in a note. “We view a near-term shutdown unlikely,” he said.Enbridge plans to address concern about Line 5 by building a tunnel under the straits to house a new pipeline. Should the existing one be shut, the company has some capacity on an alternate line that bypasses the Great Lakes “but it’s not going to make a difference,” Monaco said.The governor’s order is unenforcible without a separate order by a judge and there is “no way that’s going to happen” by the May 12 deadline, Joe Comartin, Canada’s consul-general in Detroit, said by phone. What’s more, the case is already before a federal court; any decision supporting the governor’s move would would be appealed in a process that would take years.On Wednesday, pro- and anti-Line 5 protesters are expected to gather in Michigan and there will probably be an exchange of harsh words between Enbridge and Whitmer, but nothing more, Comartin said. Even if the governor’s order were eventually upheld, Canada could invoke a 1970s-era treaty with the U.S. that prevents either government from blocking petroleum flows, he said.(Updates with Michigan warning to Enbridge about profit in third and ninth paragraphs.)

   

   

The Kalamazoo River oil spill occurred in July 2010 when a pipeline operated by Enbridge (Line 6B) burst and flowed into Talmadge Creek, a tributary of the Kalamazoo River. A 6-foot (1.8 m) break in the pipeline resulted in one of the largest inland oil spills in U.S. history (the largest was the 1991 spill near Grand Rapids, Minnesota^[1]). The pipeline carries diluted bitumen (dilbit), a heavy crude oil from Canada's Athabasca oil sands to the United States.^[2] Cleanup took five years.^[3] Following the spill, the volatile hydrocarbon diluents evaporated, leaving the heavier bitumen to sink in the water column. Thirty-five miles (56 km) of the Kalamazoo River were closed for clean-up until June 2012, when portions of the river were re-opened. On March 14, 2013, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ordered Enbridge to return to dredge portions of the river to remove submerged oil and oil-contaminated sediment.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

14 hours ago, notsonice said:

The Kalamazoo River oil spill occurred in July 2010 when a pipeline operated by Enbridge (Line 6B) burst and flowed into Talmadge Creek, a tributary of the Kalamazoo River. A 6-foot (1.8 m) break in the pipeline resulted in one of the largest inland oil spills in U.S. history (the largest was the 1991 spill near Grand Rapids, Minnesota^[1]). The pipeline carries diluted bitumen (dilbit), a heavy crude oil from Canada's Athabasca oil sands to the United States.^[2] Cleanup took five years.^[3] Following the spill, the volatile hydrocarbon diluents evaporated, leaving the heavier bitumen to sink in the water column. Thirty-five miles (56 km) of the Kalamazoo River were closed for clean-up until June 2012, when portions of the river were re-opened. On March 14, 2013, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ordered Enbridge to return to dredge portions of the river to remove submerged oil and oil-contaminated sediment.

So this was solved successfully seven years ago. And now Michigan has declared war on the American economy because of an issue that was handled well seven years ago? I guess the best brains in Michigan just had a bad day.

[surrept33 + 609]

7 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

So this was solved successfully seven years ago. And now Michigan has declared war on the American economy because of an issue that was handled well seven years ago? I guess the best brains in Michigan just had a bad day.

It's not war on the American economy. It's a Canada to Canada pipeline for the most part. It may make prices on hydrocarbons more expensive in Ontario.

I spent a while in 2016 in upper Michigan. I saw a lot of Trump and "Ban Line 5" signs in the same yard. Protecting the great lakes is very popular even in very Republican areas. 

 

[notsonice + 1,255]

8 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

So this was solved successfully seven years ago. And now Michigan has declared war on the American economy because of an issue that was handled well seven years ago? I guess the best brains in Michigan just had a bad day.

solved ? Same old 70 year old crappy pipe in the ground across Michigan. Enbridge does not care. Great Lakes are more important than Enbridge

Edited May 14, 2021 by notsonice

[JoMack + 549]

4 hours ago, notsonice said:

solved ? Same old 70 year old crappy pipe in the ground across Michigan. Enbridge does not care. Great Lakes are more important than Enbridge

I'd say for the size of the Enbridge pipeline system the spill you're pointing to doesn't really make a case for the "70 year old crappy pipe in the ground across Michigan".  Enbridge's plan that was revoked by Whitmer is to build a new tunnel to house a replacement pipeline.  So, instead, Whitmer says she's going to deliver propane to the 350,000 homes that get their fuel from Line 5.  Great alternative, but where is she going to find her delivery system?  The owner of US Propane, one of the dealers who supplies Enbridge said there isn't enough infrastructure available to transport the amount of propane needed by rail and the demand on the system by other industries will cause bottlenecks.  Another Democrat boondoggle soon to be launched to create chaos in Michigan's 55% total supply of hundreds of thousands of gallons of propane.  Whitless Whitmer with a 36% approval rating as Governor soon to find herself down and out completely, when winter hits in 2021-2022, and her propane is stuck in Canada.

[notsonice + 1,255]

16 minutes ago, JoMack said:

I'd say for the size of the Enbridge pipeline system the spill you're pointing to doesn't really make a case for the "70 year old crappy pipe in the ground across Michigan".  Enbridge's plan that was revoked by Whitmer is to build a new tunnel to house a replacement pipeline.  So, instead, Whitmer says she's going to deliver propane to the 350,000 homes that get their fuel from Line 5.  Great alternative, but where is she going to find her delivery system?  The owner of US Propane, one of the dealers who supplies Enbridge said there isn't enough infrastructure available to transport the amount of propane needed by rail and the demand on the system by other industries will cause bottlenecks.  Another Democrat boondoggle soon to be launched to create chaos in Michigan's 55% total supply of hundreds of thousands of gallons of propane.  Whitless Whitmer with a 36% approval rating as Governor soon to find herself down and out completely, when winter hits in 2021-2022, and her propane is stuck in Canada.

I'd say for the size of the Enbridge pipeline system the spill you're pointing to doesn't really make a case for the "70 year old crappy pipe in the ground across Michigan". ???

 

1 billion dollar cleanup not that big?

Biggest pipeline spill on land in the US?

Yep the pipeline is crap and it is old. 70 year old iron pipe in the ground will have significant corrosion problems. 70 year old pipe is way past it useful engineered life. Typically a iron pipe in the ground has a real life of 30 to 50 years before they start popping leaks in them. Enbridge needs to replace it and place it where the sun does not shine, back in Canada. When is the last time they drained it and done a full inspect of it for pipewall thickness? corrosion? bad abrasion? The pipe under the straits is a disaster waiting to hamper.

[notsonice + 1,255]

28 minutes ago, JoMack said:

I'd say for the size of the Enbridge pipeline system the spill you're pointing to doesn't really make a case for the "70 year old crappy pipe in the ground across Michigan".  Enbridge's plan that was revoked by Whitmer is to build a new tunnel to house a replacement pipeline.  So, instead, Whitmer says she's going to deliver propane to the 350,000 homes that get their fuel from Line 5.  Great alternative, but where is she going to find her delivery system?  The owner of US Propane, one of the dealers who supplies Enbridge said there isn't enough infrastructure available to transport the amount of propane needed by rail and the demand on the system by other industries will cause bottlenecks.  Another Democrat boondoggle soon to be launched to create chaos in Michigan's 55% total supply of hundreds of thousands of gallons of propane.  Whitless Whitmer with a 36% approval rating as Governor soon to find herself down and out completely, when winter hits in 2021-2022, and her propane is stuck in Canada.

 

 

 

nice try with your big lie  Enbridge's plan that was revoked by Whitmer is to build a new tunnel to house a replacement pipeline.????? It is in the permitting process. The Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy (EGLE) issued an National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) permit and a draft permit under Part 303, Wetlands Protection, and Part 325, Great Lakes Submerged Lands, for the project on January 29, 2021.

Enbridge Line 5 Tunnel

File No. LRE-2010-00463-56-A19

---

---

Project Update (2/1/2021)

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Detroit District, continues to conduct its independent review in accordance with federal regulations. There is no specific timeframe for the Corps' decision.

The Michigan Department of Environment, Great Lakes, and Energy (EGLE) issued an National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) permit and a draft permit under Part 303, Wetlands Protection, and Part 325, Great Lakes Submerged Lands, for the project on January 29, 2021.  EGLE permit decision documents can be found at:  https://www.michigan.gov/line5/0,9833,7-413-100616-550690--,00.html.  EGLE permit issuance is a prerequisite for Corps permit issuance.  USACE may use information generated for the EGLE permit reviews in our analysis.

Between our initial public notice and the comment period associated with our December 7, 2020 public hearing, we received over 15,000 comments.   We are reviewing the comments to help identify specific information needs that we will ask Enbridge to address.

Project Summary

Enbridge Energy, LP, has submitted an application for a Department of the Army (DA) permit to construct a pipeline tunnel under the bed of the Straits of Mackinac between Point LaBarbe, St. Ignace, Mackinac County, and McGulpin Point, Mackinaw City, Emmet County, Michigan.  The tunnel would house a new 30-inch pipeline for light crude oil and liquid natural gas which would replace the existing dual submerged Line 5 pipelines crossing the Straits of Mackinac.

A detailed project description is in our public notice.

The purpose of the proposed work is to transport light crude oil and liquid natural gas between the upper and lower peninsulas of Michigan.