GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[notsonice + 1,255]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

EVs will never be cost-competitive with ICE for equivalent levels of comfort and cache.

at $4 gasoline they will. Solar and wind was said to be never competitive ...Times are changing

[notsonice + 1,255]

High Power Prices Mean Wind Farms Are Paying the U.K. Government

• Offshore wind farms are set to fund a payment to suppliers
• High wholesale power prices have caused subsidies to vanish

Photographer: Chris Ratcliffe/Bloomberg

 

By

Will Mathis

January 13, 2022, 7:43 AM MST

For the first time ever, the U.K.’s giant fleet of wind farms are earning the government money.

Under the British system, power producers only get a subsidy if the wholesale price is below a certain threshold. But with record-high natural gas prices driving up costs this winter, power from once-expensive offshore wind farms is so much cheaper than conventional plants that they are paying millions of pounds back to the Low Carbon Contracts Company, the government entity in charge of the support mechanism.

Normally, U.K. energy suppliers have to pay a fee to subsidize the country’s growing fleet of offshore wind farms and other subsidized renewable power generators. But because of a massive surplus, suppliers will actually receive 39 million pounds ($53.5 million), rather than having to pay a fee. 

Negative Subsidy

U.K. offshore wind farms are paying back subsidies as gas prices soar

 

While the payment will do little to ease the potentially $24 billion spike in energy bills this April, the shift shows how far costs have fallen for offshore wind farms in recent years.

In the third quarter of 2021, RWE AG’s newly commissioned Triton Knoll offshore wind farm became the first to start paying money, rather than receive a subsidy. Back in 2018, the government’s contract with the facility was considered so expensive that it became the subject of an investigation by the country’s public spending watchdog.

As additional capacity comes online this year, even more money could be paid back because newer wind farms have much lower prices than the existing fleet. Orsted AS’s Hornsea 2 wind farm, which started producing power in December, will sell electricity at a price 22% lower than the Triton Knoll project and at less than half the average market price so far in 2022. In the coming years, even bigger and cheaper projects will come online.

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by notsonice

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Home charging is many years away from possible in the U.S., the electrical grid infrastructure is non-existent to support widespread home charging.

As has been explained to you many times the grid is completely capable now of charging a full national fleet of EV's at night.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

EVs will never be cost-competitive with ICE for equivalent levels of comfort and cache.

They already are. 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

4 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

EVs will never be cost-competitive with ICE for equivalent levels of comfort and cache.

huh?  how do you figure?  Comfort and cache are two of the big selling points for EV's  

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

Porsche Taycan (BEV) Outsold 911 In 2021

911 had its best year ever, which underlines how big of a success this was for the Taycan and EVs

In 2021 the company more than doubled electric car sales to 41,296 (up 106% year-over-year), which is also 13.7% of the total volume. Cumulatively, more than 61,000 Taycans were sold globally.

It's a spectacular achievement that the electric Porsche outsold Porsche's icon in 2021 - the 911 - despite the 911 noting its own sales record of 38,464.

 

The Porsche Taycan is the third most popular model in the lineup:

• Macan: 88,362
• Cayenne: 83,071
• Taycan (all versions): 41,296 (up 106%)
  including 9,419 in the U.S. (up 113%)
• 911: 38,464
• Panamera: 30,220
• 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman: 20,502
• Total: 301,915 (up 11%)

 

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

7 hours ago, notsonice said:

at $4 gasoline they will. Solar and wind was said to be never competitive ...Times are changing

No, EVs are going to run into a brick wall of exponential price increases for essential inputs, which will make EVs unaffordable for the average American.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Record-High-Lithium-Prices-Threaten-The-EV-Boom.html

"Lithium prices soared to record highs at the start of 2022 and there is no sign of the price rally stopping in the near future

As a key component of batteries, the rising cost of lithium could derail the decades-long decline in battery costs, which would threaten the EV and energy storage boom

This could push back projections of price parity between EVs and conventional vehicles by two years"

Edited January 14, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

7 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

No, EVs are going to run into a brick wall of exponential price increases for essential inputs, which will make EVs unaffordable for the average American.

This could push back projections of price parity between EVs and conventional vehicles by two years"

Haha! So your brick wall is at worst a two year slowdown.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

35 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Porsche Taycan (BEV) Outsold 911 In 2021

911 had its best year ever, which underlines how big of a success this was for the Taycan and EVs

In 2021 the company more than doubled electric car sales to 41,296 (up 106% year-over-year), which is also 13.7% of the total volume. Cumulatively, more than 61,000 Taycans were sold globally.

It's a spectacular achievement that the electric Porsche outsold Porsche's icon in 2021 - the 911 - despite the 911 noting its own sales record of 38,464.

 

The Porsche Taycan is the third most popular model in the lineup:

• Macan: 88,362
• Cayenne: 83,071
• Taycan (all versions): 41,296 (up 106%)
  including 9,419 in the U.S. (up 113%)
• 911: 38,464
• Panamera: 30,220
• 718 Boxster and 718 Cayman: 20,502
• Total: 301,915 (up 11%)

 

Again, marginal miniscule changes, Jay. Really small stuff.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Haha! So your brick wall is at worst a two year slowdown.

Jay, that two year delay is just the beginning of the brick wall that EVs are going to run into.

It gets worse as they go along.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

4 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

huh?  how do you figure?  Comfort and cache are two of the big selling points for EV's  

Low end EVs are not comfortable nor do they carry cache.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

7 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

As has been explained to you many times the grid is completely capable now of charging a full national fleet of EV's at night.

Your opinion on that is at odds with every expert I have seen, Jay.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

8 hours ago, notsonice said:

High Power Prices Mean Wind Farms Are Paying the U.K. Government

• Offshore wind farms are set to fund a payment to suppliers
• High wholesale power prices have caused subsidies to vanish

Photographer: Chris Ratcliffe/Bloomberg

 

By

Will Mathis

January 13, 2022, 7:43 AM MST

For the first time ever, the U.K.’s giant fleet of wind farms are earning the government money.

Under the British system, power producers only get a subsidy if the wholesale price is below a certain threshold. But with record-high natural gas prices driving up costs this winter, power from once-expensive offshore wind farms is so much cheaper than conventional plants that they are paying millions of pounds back to the Low Carbon Contracts Company, the government entity in charge of the support mechanism.

Normally, U.K. energy suppliers have to pay a fee to subsidize the country’s growing fleet of offshore wind farms and other subsidized renewable power generators. But because of a massive surplus, suppliers will actually receive 39 million pounds ($53.5 million), rather than having to pay a fee. 

Negative Subsidy

U.K. offshore wind farms are paying back subsidies as gas prices soar

 

While the payment will do little to ease the potentially $24 billion spike in energy bills this April, the shift shows how far costs have fallen for offshore wind farms in recent years.

In the third quarter of 2021, RWE AG’s newly commissioned Triton Knoll offshore wind farm became the first to start paying money, rather than receive a subsidy. Back in 2018, the government’s contract with the facility was considered so expensive that it became the subject of an investigation by the country’s public spending watchdog.

As additional capacity comes online this year, even more money could be paid back because newer wind farms have much lower prices than the existing fleet. Orsted AS’s Hornsea 2 wind farm, which started producing power in December, will sell electricity at a price 22% lower than the Triton Knoll project and at less than half the average market price so far in 2022. In the coming years, even bigger and cheaper projects will come online.

 

 

That is only when the wind blows, which it has not recently, thus contributing to the high cost of energy.

Sure, they make money when the price of energy is driven up to painful heights as a result of anti-fossil fuel policies.

The social cost of energy has risen enormously because of Green policies, and that hurts the standard of living.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

39 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Again, marginal miniscule changes, Jay. Really small stuff.

Big on cachet.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

26 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Your opinion on that is at odds with every expert I have seen, Jay.

It is a simple calculation. 

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Low end EVs are not comfortable nor do they carry cache.

EVs have exceeded ICE for comfort and cachet at the mid and high ends of the market. Low end is next. Not exactly a lot of low end ICE with comfort and cachet.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Jay, that two year delay is just the beginning of the brick wall that EVs are going to run into.

It gets worse as they go along.

That isn't what the article says. It correctly states that the decline in the battery cost curve might slow down for a couple years but that is all. It won't affect EV adoption rate because demand far exceeds EV production at today's costs.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Big on cachet.

Hardly.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It is a simple calculation. 

 

Hardly.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

2 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

EVs have exceeded ICE for comfort and cachet at the mid and high ends of the market. Low end is next. Not exactly a lot of low end ICE with comfort and cachet.

Low end is mega-miles away. And don't hold your breath.

[Ecocharger + 1,474]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

That isn't what the article says. It correctly states that the decline in the battery cost curve might slow down for a couple years but that is all. It won't affect EV adoption rate because demand far exceeds EV production at today's costs.

No, it just means that current EV adoption projections are at least two years optimistic and two years from now or less we will see if another postponement is necessary, which it will be.

By that time, the climate panic will be a thing of history.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

Hardly.

It's number of vehicles x quantity of kilowatt hours for each subtracted from available electricity in the middle of the night. Simple. I guess it takes an economist to figure such things out.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

18 hours ago, notsonice said:

Yes but for US uptake of EV's by the masses requires a high degree in confidence on range.?????

 

no the EV's already have the range for the daily needs of most Americans.......IE Commutes of up to 100 miles round trip. It is all about the upfront cost.......and vehicle selection.....In my neck of the woods SUVs dominate (ice and snow) and all wheel drive vehicles are the rule. When EV prices start getting close to ICE vehicles prices for the same features IE style and functionality ICE vehicles will no longer have an advantage.  

If you live in a cold region then your range will be even more compromised.

You are wrong about range anxiety, it is a big thing for most people in England and England is tiny compared to many states in the US . Yes 90% of the time you may be commuting and it works just fine, what about the other 10% ie when you go on vacation or you have a business meeting or you see family from farther away? This is what really puts people off.

Hybrids no problem I'm with you on that but a 200 mile range doesnt cut it for most.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

13 hours ago, notsonice said:

High Power Prices Mean Wind Farms Are Paying the U.K. Government

• Offshore wind farms are set to fund a payment to suppliers
• High wholesale power prices have caused subsidies to vanish

Photographer: Chris Ratcliffe/Bloomberg

 

By

Will Mathis

January 13, 2022, 7:43 AM MST

For the first time ever, the U.K.’s giant fleet of wind farms are earning the government money.

Under the British system, power producers only get a subsidy if the wholesale price is below a certain threshold. But with record-high natural gas prices driving up costs this winter, power from once-expensive offshore wind farms is so much cheaper than conventional plants that they are paying millions of pounds back to the Low Carbon Contracts Company, the government entity in charge of the support mechanism.

Normally, U.K. energy suppliers have to pay a fee to subsidize the country’s growing fleet of offshore wind farms and other subsidized renewable power generators. But because of a massive surplus, suppliers will actually receive 39 million pounds ($53.5 million), rather than having to pay a fee. 

Negative Subsidy

U.K. offshore wind farms are paying back subsidies as gas prices soar

 

While the payment will do little to ease the potentially $24 billion spike in energy bills this April, the shift shows how far costs have fallen for offshore wind farms in recent years.

In the third quarter of 2021, RWE AG’s newly commissioned Triton Knoll offshore wind farm became the first to start paying money, rather than receive a subsidy. Back in 2018, the government’s contract with the facility was considered so expensive that it became the subject of an investigation by the country’s public spending watchdog.

As additional capacity comes online this year, even more money could be paid back because newer wind farms have much lower prices than the existing fleet. Orsted AS’s Hornsea 2 wind farm, which started producing power in December, will sell electricity at a price 22% lower than the Triton Knoll project and at less than half the average market price so far in 2022. In the coming years, even bigger and cheaper projects will come online.

 

 

Lets hope that wind keeps on blowing!

It wont though, battery storage facilities in the UK are almost non-existant and that should be a primary investment goal by the government or the wind farms remain at the will of nature and unreliable.

I'm all for going green to curb pollution but not at the risk of jeopardising the national grid and relying on exhorbitant gas stations which price the average pensioner out of turning on their heating this winter. This is short sighted policy and will cause deaths to the elderly as they simply cant afford it.

The new North Sea Link to Norway's pumped hydro is a start but its only 1.4GW, we need much more going forward as energy demand is going to soar.

https://www.smart-energy.com/renewable-energy/uk-needs-another-263gw-to-meet-demand-2050-net-zero-target/

 

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

13 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

They already are. 

I disagree when you compare apples with apples

Why do you still drive your ICE BMW then? i presume its not a 10 year old nail?

I believe you will need $71,296 to convert to a BMW i4 all electric (base on UK price and converted to US$ at today's XR)

https://www.lookers.co.uk/bmw/new-cars/i-range/the-i4?gclid=CjwKCAiA24SPBhB0EiwAjBgkhlMDLtq8OE2eL19NMuVamvJxGFu68CdPFp5-uUHZ-xZtgVrg_GpW2xoCvgAQAvD_BwE

Looking forward to you posting pics of you in it 😉👍

Edited January 14, 2022 by Rob Plant