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GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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9 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Significant part of Tesla's revenues comes from transfer payments for carbon credits from other car manufacturers, which are not 100% electric.

Obviously, for as long as this BS persists, it takes other 100% EV manufacturers to bite off some of Tesla's market.

After that, when EVs are generics not specifically subsidized, Tesla might hold onto a niche similar to Apple's in computing. That is, you are asked to pay premium pricing for a device that is largely a generic PC, but which you have no control over and cannot service yourself. This based on some kind of brand appeal. Personally, I do not understand why this sort of market exists, but it obviously does.

Meanwhile in reality credits are 2% of their revenue and they have the best automotive gross margin of any car maker:

image.png.5efcec9e58a2cfd69095e288ed8de8d1.png

image.thumb.png.15bdac55c26bb009d776c013cad23c56.png

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/TWPKBV_TSLA_Q3_2021_Quarterly_Update_SI1AKE.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"TSLA-Q3-2021-Quarterly-Update.pdf"

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4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Meanwhile in reality credits are 2% of their revenue and they have the best automotive gross margin of any car maker:

image.png.5efcec9e58a2cfd69095e288ed8de8d1.png

image.thumb.png.15bdac55c26bb009d776c013cad23c56.png

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/TWPKBV_TSLA_Q3_2021_Quarterly_Update_SI1AKE.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"TSLA-Q3-2021-Quarterly-Update.pdf"

No dealership body or service infrastructure. MOOCH MOTORS has had its day in the sun. 

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10 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Yes, but why would you buy specifically the EV which forces you into works service only? Some kind of dubious Apple-like proposition, IMHO.

From what I've seen from Russian and Ukrainian chop shops on Youtube, their battery package is already the weakest in the industry, pound for pound. There are no works sales and no works service in these countries, so everybody who imports a Tesla is on his own.

They don't force you into works service. But you do run the risk of voiding the warranty if the work is done by a non certified repair shop. It is exactly the same with all ICE automakers.

Tesla isn't in Russia or Ukraine yet. What is your point?

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

No dealership body or service infrastructure. MOOCH MOTORS has had its day in the sun. 

You are right, no stealerships to hassle with. Dealerships are outdated and their days are numbered.

Tesla service infrastructure but they actually do most service at the customer's location with their mobile support. Just open your Tesla app and make an appointment:

image.png.7cb9dd8f1568bef6f77f949699e9edda.png

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1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Meanwhile in reality credits are 2% of their revenue and they have the best automotive gross margin of any car maker:

image.png.5efcec9e58a2cfd69095e288ed8de8d1.png

image.thumb.png.15bdac55c26bb009d776c013cad23c56.png

https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/TWPKBV_TSLA_Q3_2021_Quarterly_Update_SI1AKE.pdf?xseo=&response-content-disposition=inline%3Bfilename%3D"TSLA-Q3-2021-Quarterly-Update.pdf"

Sure they do. Which is the same as saying that you are overpaying them. Same as Apple. Do you want a car or stock from them?

Sorry, the credit thing is some form of creative accounting. I am immediately familiar with FiatChrysler annual filing, and they alone paid Tesla over $2bln. Which is everything they made (from selling 6.7l Dodge Rams in US, no less. The European division was bleeding red ink)

Possibly it was not "regulatory credits" per se, but some other form of covering their asses. The traditional bread-and-butter of European car industry, the small diesel is generally non-compliant with Euro 6 regulations. As we know now, after the US EPA busted VW. The diesel version of the 6.7l Dodge Ram passes Euro 5 with flying colors, without that ever even being a requirement. Same is probably true for any sufficiently large diesel made out of proper pig iron.

So, one Yankee hand washes another, or the Generally Acceptably Accounting Practices are generally more acceptable to some than the others.

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3 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Sure they do. Which is the same as saying that you are overpaying them. Same as Apple. Do you want a car or stock from them?

Sorry, the credit thing is some form of creative accounting. I am immediately familiar with FiatChrysler annual filing, and they alone paid Tesla over $2bln. Which is everything they made (from selling 6.7l Dodge Rams in US, no less. The European division was bleeding red ink)

Possibly it was not "regulatory credits" per se, but some other form of covering their asses. The traditional bread-and-butter of European car industry, the small diesel is generally non-compliant with Euro 6 regulations. As we know now, after the US EPA busted VW. The diesel version of the 6.7l Dodge Ram passes Euro 5 with flying colors, without that ever even being a requirement. Same is probably true for any sufficiently large diesel made out of proper pig iron.

So, one Yankee hand washes another, or the Generally Acceptably Accounting Practices are generally more acceptable to some than the others.

Your data is old. FCA Stellantis no longer buys credits from Tesla. Things have changed. Please try and stay current.

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1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

No dealership body or service infrastructure. MOOCH MOTORS has had its day in the sun. 

There is still the same service infrastructure in place, only more expensive. Say hi to vertically integrated monopoly, the way Mr. Ford and Mr. Rockefeller envisioned them. You've already got your special works Tesla chargers with special Tesla electricity? Soon enough, you will also get special Tesla works financing and insurance, too. Why would anybody buy a vehicle, too? Wouldn't you prefer to lease instead? Seems like the more convenient option.

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1 minute ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Your data is old. FCA Stellantis no longer buys credits from Tesla. Things have changed. Please try and stay current.

I don't think the new company filed a single annual return yet.

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(edited)

4 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

I don't think the new company filed a single annual return yet.

Stellantis Will Stop Buying EU Tax Credits From Tesla

The move could cost Tesla $240 million in future income. Here's the story.

large.ashx
John Rosevear
(TMFMarlowe)
May 5, 2021 at 2:36PM
 

Stellantis (NYSE:STLA), the global auto giant formed from the merger of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) with French automaker PSA, said that it will no longer buy European environmental credits from electric-car maker Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA).

The move is expected to save Stellantis about 300 million euros ($360 million). About two-thirds of that would have gone to Tesla, Stellantis's Chief Financial Officer Richard Palmer said. 

The European Union requires automakers to build a minimum percentage of zero-emissions vehicles; those that build more than required can sell "credits" to other automakers that fall short. The system is similar to one used in California and other U.S. states. Tesla, which only makes electric vehicles, has been able to generate significant profit from the sale of these credits to other automakers. 

A European-market Jeep Wrangler on display in a neutral space.

FIAT CHRYSLER NEEDED TESLA'S CREDITS TO OFFSET ITS EUROPEAN SALES OF PROFITABLE BUT THIRSTY JEEPS. BUT PSA'S ELECTRIFIED VEHICLES MEAN THAT POST-MERGER STELLANTIS NO LONGER NEEDS TESLA'S CREDITS TO COMPLY WITH EU REGULATIONS. IMAGE SOURCE: STELLANTIS.

FCA was one of Tesla's biggest customers. The former Italian-American automaker has spent roughly 2 billion euros, or $2.4 billion, to buy European and U.S. credits from Tesla since 2019. But that cash transfer will soon end, thanks to the electric-vehicle technology that PSA, the parent company of French brands Peugeot and Citroën and Germany's Opel, brought to the merger. 

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You are right, no stealerships to hassle with. Dealerships are outdated and their days are numbered.

Tesla service infrastructure but they actually do most service at the customer's location with their mobile support. Just open your Tesla app and make an appointment:

image.png.7cb9dd8f1568bef6f77f949699e9edda.png

Oh god. Another one obviously drank the Silicon Valley Kool-aid, where everything is made out of software, and software is not a product, but service. Better yet, a solution. If it is sufficiently enterprise grade.

Sometimes, service is done not for periodic interval's sake, but to replace a part that is really broken? This might require a device called a ramp? I am sure the magical Tesla app offers you to conjure a portable one, but does it really work?

 

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6 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

I don't think the new company filed a single annual return yet.

March 4, 2021

Stellantis publishes its 2020 Annual Report and Form 20-F and the 2020 Consolidated Financial Statements and Management’s Discussion and Analysis of Groupe PSA

https://www.stellantis.com/en/news/press-releases/2021/march/stellantis-publishes-its-2020-annual-report-and-form-20-f-and-the-2020-consolidated-financial-statements-and-management-s-discussion-and-analysis-of-groupe-psa

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2 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Oh god. Another one obviously drank the Silicon Valley Kool-aid, where everything is made out of software, and software is not a product, but service. Better yet, a solution. If it is sufficiently enterprise grade.

Sometimes, service is done not for periodic interval's sake, but to replace a part that is really broken? This might require a device called a ramp? I am sure the magical Tesla app offers you to conjure a portable one, but does it really work?

 

If the repair requires more than mobile support can do then the car goes to a service center. I guess that is rocket science for you.

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4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Stellantis Will Stop Buying EU Tax Credits From Tesla

The move could cost Tesla $240 million in future income. Here's the story.

large.ashx
John Rosevear
(TMFMarlowe)
May 5, 2021 at 2:36PM
 

Stellantis (NYSE:STLA), the global auto giant formed from the merger of Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) with French automaker PSA, said that it will no longer buy European environmental credits from electric-car maker Tesla (NASDAQ:TSLA).

The move is expected to save Stellantis about 300 million euros ($360 million). About two-thirds of that would have gone to Tesla, Stellantis's Chief Financial Officer Richard Palmer said. 

The European Union requires automakers to build a minimum percentage of zero-emissions vehicles; those that build more than required can sell "credits" to other automakers that fall short. The system is similar to one used in California and other U.S. states. Tesla, which only makes electric vehicles, has been able to generate significant profit from the sale of these credits to other automakers. 

A European-market Jeep Wrangler on display in a neutral space.

FIAT CHRYSLER NEEDED TESLA'S CREDITS TO OFFSET ITS EUROPEAN SALES OF PROFITABLE BUT THIRSTY JEEPS. BUT PSA'S ELECTRIFIED VEHICLES MEAN THAT POST-MERGER STELLANTIS NO LONGER NEEDS TESLA'S CREDITS TO COMPLY WITH EU REGULATIONS. IMAGE SOURCE: STELLANTIS.

FCA was one of Tesla's biggest customers. The former Italian-American automaker has spent roughly 2 billion euros, or $2.4 billion, to buy European and U.S. credits from Tesla since 2019. But that cash transfer will soon end, thanks to the electric-vehicle technology that PSA, the parent company of French brands Peugeot and Citroën and Germany's Opel, brought to the merger. 

"Will not" is not the same as "did not" Wait for the actual filing. Or a bit after, even. Last time, they also called it something like "one time emergency capital expenditure" that came announced after the annual results. (and zeroed out the profits)

The new company is like the King of European panel vans and lowest-end econoboxes, all of which were previously very small diesels. How the hell are they supposed to become zero-emission overnight? Most of the customers don't have any charging infrastructure for EV.

If I see this actually happening, it would mean some kind of deal was brokered directly with the EU. So far, I see a lot of propaganda against buying specifically a diesel car, that's it.

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13 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

March 4, 2021

Stellantis publishes its 2020 Annual Report and Form 20-F and the 2020 Consolidated Financial Statements and Management’s Discussion and Analysis of Groupe PSA

https://www.stellantis.com/en/news/press-releases/2021/march/stellantis-publishes-its-2020-annual-report-and-form-20-f-and-the-2020-consolidated-financial-statements-and-management-s-discussion-and-analysis-of-groupe-psa

Surely is peculiar for a company officially founded Jan 16, 2021.  Some retro-active ass-covering again. They haven't really done any business in 2020.

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(edited)

13 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

"Will not" is not the same as "did not" Wait for the actual filing. Or a bit after, even. Last time, they also called it something like "one time emergency capital expenditure" that came announced after the annual results. (and zeroed out the profits)

The new company is like the King of European panel vans and lowest-end econoboxes, all of which were previously very small diesels. How the hell are they supposed to become zero-emission overnight? Most of the customers don't have any charging infrastructure for EV.

If I see this actually happening, it would mean some kind of deal was brokered directly with the EU. So far, I see a lot of propaganda against buying specifically a diesel car, that's it.

In Q3 Tesla made 1.6B net profit and only 279M came from credits. Deal with it.

image.png.1e8000de4a273ab1ec8dad43584edd72.png

image.thumb.png.207bd68b9ee7fdda325319063c515880.png

Diesel is dead!

Battery-electric car sales overtook diesel for the first time in Europe, the Financial Times reported Sunday.

This is an important milestone, as diesel has been the default choice for European car buyers for decades. Registrations of new "electrified" vehicles—including hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and battery-electric cars combined—pushed past diesel in September 2020, but this is the first time battery-electric models have outsold diesels on their own, the report said.

 

In December 2021, more than one fifth of new cars sold across 18 European markets were all-electric, while diesel cars (including diesel hybrids) accounted for less than 19% of sales, according to the report, which is based on data compiled by the Financial Times and independent auto analyst Matthias Schmidt.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134774_battery-electric-car-sales-finally-overtook-the-diesel-institution-in-europe

 

 

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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12 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

If the repair requires more than mobile support can do then the car goes to a service center. I guess that is rocket science for you.

Lo and behold and the competitive advantage for works team compared to a 3rd party app disappears. Somebody, say Uber or Yelp, could manage competing mechanics to come by and take a look at your vehicle, should it be something trivial. The automotive telemetry interfaces are largely open standards. This will surely reveal that them coming to you is not necessarily any cheaper then you coming to them.

Rocketry is actually tremendously easy, as far as scientific-like activities go. In this sense, yes, it is quite simple. Otherwise, it is a stupid American proverb.

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9 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

In Q3 Tesla made 1.6B net profit and only 279M came from credits. Deal with it.

image.png.1e8000de4a273ab1ec8dad43584edd72.png

Diesel is dead!

Battery-electric car sales overtook diesel for the first time in Europe, the Financial Times reported Sunday.

This is an important milestone, as diesel has been the default choice for European car buyers for decades. Registrations of new "electrified" vehicles—including hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and battery-electric cars combined—pushed past diesel in September 2020, but this is the first time battery-electric models have outsold diesels on their own, the report said.

 

In December 2021, more than one fifth of new cars sold across 18 European markets were all-electric, while diesel cars (including diesel hybrids) accounted for less than 19% of sales, according to the report, which is based on data compiled by the Financial Times and independent auto analyst Matthias Schmidt.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134774_battery-electric-car-sales-finally-overtook-the-diesel-institution-in-europe

 

 

EU energy crisis deepens as France and Germany ‘make a mockery' of green transition plan

Head of Oil and Gas Research at Investec Nathan Piper described the prices as "phenomenally high", adding that gas prices were now 10 times higher than the US in Europe.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1539643/eu-news-energy-crisis-deepens-france-germany-green-taxonomy-nuclear-gas

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3 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Lo and behold and the competitive advantage for works team compared to a 3rd party app disappears. Somebody, say Uber or Yelp, could manage competing mechanics to come by and take a look at your vehicle, should it be something trivial. The automotive telemetry interfaces are largely open standards. This will surely reveal that them coming to you is not necessarily any cheaper then you coming to them.

Rocketry is actually tremendously easy, as far as scientific-like activities go. In this sense, yes, it is quite simple. Otherwise, it is a stupid American proverb.

You apparently can't comprehend the concept of a warranty. If it is a warranty repair then it is free and very convenient if mobile support can fix it. If it isn't a warranty repair then go to any mechanic.

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4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You apparently can't comprehend the concept of a warranty. If it is a warranty repair then it is free and very convenient if mobile support can fix it. If it isn't a warranty repair then go to any mechanic.

It is quite apparent you have no concept of auto infrastructure and the costs. Moblie repair, Jay stay in theory analytics you fair much better there.

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4 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It is quite apparent you have no concept of auto infrastructure and the costs. Moblie repair, Jay stay in theory analytics you fair much better there.

Even more apparent is that you have no concept of the maintenance difference between an EV and ICE.

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10 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

In Q3 Tesla made 1.6B net profit and only 279M came from credits. Deal with it.

image.png.1e8000de4a273ab1ec8dad43584edd72.png

image.thumb.png.207bd68b9ee7fdda325319063c515880.png

Diesel is dead!

Battery-electric car sales overtook diesel for the first time in Europe, the Financial Times reported Sunday.

This is an important milestone, as diesel has been the default choice for European car buyers for decades. Registrations of new "electrified" vehicles—including hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and battery-electric cars combined—pushed past diesel in September 2020, but this is the first time battery-electric models have outsold diesels on their own, the report said.

 

In December 2021, more than one fifth of new cars sold across 18 European markets were all-electric, while diesel cars (including diesel hybrids) accounted for less than 19% of sales, according to the report, which is based on data compiled by the Financial Times and independent auto analyst Matthias Schmidt.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134774_battery-electric-car-sales-finally-overtook-the-diesel-institution-in-europe

 

 

It is dead for as long as pork barrel of zero-emission subsidies rolls. It is only really over when EV ownership wins without the subsides.

These figures also don't correspond to my immediate observables. Most people I know still drive diesel cars. Some drive on gas. I don't know anybody who owns an EV. Seen some rich Teslas, of course, belonging to some rich people who's got their own driveway to park at. I drive a car share (BMW and Mercedes works offering) Very few of their cars are EV and their number seems to be getting less.

There is absolutely no way they can put enough charging infrastructure in anytime soon. It is so in any European city, where people tend to live in apartments and park their vehicles wherever there is space. In the business centers, the parking is metered by minutes. Not enough to recharge, even if they managed to squeeze a charging device into everywhere. (Which is a challenge in itself, given the power requirements. The residential-grade wiring is not up to the task anywhere I see)

I suspect the reported sales come from something like VW e-Up, a vehicle obviously made just for the quota, ready to be recalled and junked.

 

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17 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

EU energy crisis deepens as France and Germany ‘make a mockery' of green transition plan

Head of Oil and Gas Research at Investec Nathan Piper described the prices as "phenomenally high", adding that gas prices were now 10 times higher than the US in Europe.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1539643/eu-news-energy-crisis-deepens-france-germany-green-taxonomy-nuclear-gas

It is business as usual. The French are not quitting their nukes, the Germans are not quitting natural gas. Both got no Plan B.

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5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Even more apparent is that you have no concept of the maintenance difference between an EV and ICE.

European Teslas don't cost that much to maintain yet because the upfront costs are so high. Other than this, too early to tell. The pure EVs sure have fewer moving parts. This is a plus. On the other hand, there is no manufacturing culture whatsoever. This is a minus. Their previous manufacturing plant in California was a bunch of Mexicans in a tent doing everything by hand. Presumably, is the new site in Texas (also) about having a non-embarrassing manufacturing facility?

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24 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You apparently can't comprehend the concept of a warranty. If it is a warranty repair then it is free and very convenient if mobile support can fix it. If it isn't a warranty repair then go to any mechanic.

Now you are also a skilled insurance actuary, Jay? This is who designs the warranty terms. Well, for a regular car at least. I am not aware of Tesla allowing a 3rd party service ever. Do they?

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(edited)

9 minutes ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Now you are also a skilled insurance actuary, Jay? This is who designs the warranty terms. Well, for a regular car at least. I am not aware of Tesla allowing a 3rd party service ever. Do they?

"If you choose to take your vehicle to a non-Tesla shop for maintenance or repairs, coverage under your warranty could be affected if any problems occur."  https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty

Same as every other automaker.

Edited by Jay McKinsey
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