GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

51 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Maybe Thanos was onto something 😂

Quite possibly. 

World Yearly Population Growth Rate  https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Fascinating negative correlation. CO2 is increasing and the population growth rate is decreasing...hmmm  Looks to be on track to go negative in 50 or 60 years.

@Ecocharger  are you Thanos trying to trick us into more CO2 production?

Edited May 3, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

6 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

No, they used the phrase "great deoxygenation" indicating a sudden event that occurred after a long slow decrease of CO2 and it eventually passing the minimum threshold. Your problem is that this paper is about the Sun expanding and burning off all the CO2. No one is suggesting we eliminate so much CO2 that plants and their O2 production suffer. Plants and animals were doing just fine 300 years ago. 

However too much CO2 causes ocean acidification which is correlated to mass extinctions. Corals are already beginning to die because of this acidification. They were doing much better 300 years ago!!

More CO2 does not always increase O2 as proven by the charts below. 

 

Those charts do not prove anything, Jay, there is no organic relationship demonstrated. Scientists have proven that higher CO2 levels increases the production of oxygen. That is basic knowledge, we work from there. Birth rates related to CO2? Nonsense, birth rates are a function of birth control and government birth control policies. You are old enough to know that.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ecocharger

[Tomasz + 1,608]

Hello from polish perspective

Co2 emission prices today reached EUR 50 per ton. Unfortunately, the well-known speculator Pierre Andurrand announced a target of speculators at the level of up to EUR 100 per ton.

The topic may seem insignificant, but the Polish energy industry is based on coal and this is increasingly beginning to affect electricity prices in Poland and sink the entire Polish energy sector. It is worth bearing this in mind in the coming months.

It will sound rude, but it seems the karma of Polish laughs, as Russia is terribly poor, it turns away and I am afraid that, unfortunately, Poland will get the ass very hard in the coming years. J

Just to make you aware of the scale of this european total madness to polish energy industry, I read it because Im not any chemist that supposedly 1 ton of CO2 is produced by burning 280 kg of coal. Means today, for one ton of coal burned in a Polish power plant, you need to add  additional the cost of EUR 180. This is simple madness. A ton of coal costs $ 80 today.

I think it can be a lesson for US GREEN DEAL.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

Another huge joke is the strange propaganda against the airline industry for its fuel-related CO2 levels, even though some of those pushing a "Green" (really a "Brown") agenda are the internet companies, whose own carbon footprint EXCEEDS the airline industry.

Talk about meaningless propaganda.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Shocking-Truth-About-Data-Center-Energy-Consumption.html

[Boat + 1,324]

4 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Another huge joke is the strange propaganda against the airline industry for its fuel-related CO2 levels, even though some of those pushing a "Green" (really a "Brown") agenda are the internet companies, whose own carbon footprint EXCEEDS the airline industry.

Talk about meaningless propaganda.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Shocking-Truth-About-Data-Center-Energy-Consumption.html

You give those companies to much credit. If green doesn’t hurt the bottom line it’s just the popular imaging thing to do. Airlines using grain based fuel is an attempt to play green. Would any of these companies give up market share to be green. Hell no, growth and screw the air makes more money. 
Some companies just want to avoid the reputation of wells that flare, cigarettes that kill, lead pipes that deform babies, weed killer that competes with lead pipe.

So if you use massive amounts of electricity you buy wind turbines and solar. I’m sure they did market surveys. These corporations don’t want their reputation hit and the unfavorable stories of how they contribute to lung and heart disease, you know, killing off old people.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

2 minutes ago, Boat said:

If green doesn’t hurt the bottom line it’s just the popular imaging thing to do

Perhaps the most intelligent statement you have ever uttered.

[surrept33 + 609]

5 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Another huge joke is the strange propaganda against the airline industry for its fuel-related CO2 levels, even though some of those pushing a "Green" (really a "Brown") agenda are the internet companies, whose own carbon footprint EXCEEDS the airline industry.

Talk about meaningless propaganda.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Shocking-Truth-About-Data-Center-Energy-Consumption.html

Anything "brown" is becoming "green" (in internet companies not airlines), and will probably asymptotically reach green faster than you think. 

Keep in mind the data center industry is going to have MASSIVE growth (in multiple ways) in the 2020s based on expected uses of much more pervasive fast internet (5g), internet hookups for every sort of device (internet of thingys), and further efficiencies found by centralizing energy usage in more geographically disparate distributed data centers.

Because of headroom in margins, companies will just acquire the power, subsidizing if needed, in the greenest possible way to meet responsible growth goals.

Edited May 6, 2021 by surrept33

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

Here we go, the run-up in essential EV component costs is just beginning to skyrocket...the price of EV's just jumped up.

https://oilprice.com/Metals/Commodities/Analysts-Copper-Prices-Could-Double-To-20000-Per-Ton.html

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

6 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Here we go, the run-up in essential EV component costs is just beginning to skyrocket...the price of EV's just jumped up.

https://oilprice.com/Metals/Commodities/Analysts-Copper-Prices-Could-Double-To-20000-Per-Ton.html

The price of oil has increased as much as copper in the past year. But you only put copper in the car once, you put gas in your car every week.

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,245]

12 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The price of oil has increased as much as copper in the past year. But you only put copper in the car once, you put gas in your car every week.

I put 40 gallons of diesel in my truck and can run 750 miles. Can your car do that? Can you pull a 16,000 trailer?  Not in near or even close future. Yer a blabbering idiot Jay that should find a site that more suits your "Green" way of thinking. You haven't a clue as to how much petrol it takes to mine that copper, or lithium etc. And tearing up the earth to do it. 

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

18 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The price of oil has increased as much as copper in the past year. But you only put copper in the car once, you put gas in your car every week.

You only buy a new car once, battery a few times, but they are not the price of a kleenex-tissue.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

Here is the final discovery to explain the disaster...what a shocker. Renewables are falling short again...

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Grid-Operator-Unwittingly-Shut-Down-Natural-Gas-During-Texas-Freeze.html

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

3 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Here is the final discovery to explain the disaster...what a shocker. Renewables are falling short again...

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Grid-Operator-Unwittingly-Shut-Down-Natural-Gas-During-Texas-Freeze.html

The article was about the failure of the natural gas system and how they had placed themselves in a program that payed them money to be turned off. It was natural gas that fell short, way short. 

During the winter storms, natural gas production in Texas collapsed by 45 percent, primarily due to freeze-offs.

The grid operator in Texas also said it would need to re-evaluate whether critically important natural gas infrastructure should be allowed to qualify for the payments-for-reduced consumption program in the future. 

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

Read and learn......

"Officials at ERCOT said that the grid operator was unaware that the program to save power actually ended up cutting off some of the much-needed natural gas supply at the time by shutting down critical natural gas infrastructure."

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

51 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Read and learn......

"Officials at ERCOT said that the grid operator was unaware that the program to save power actually ended up cutting off some of the much-needed natural gas supply at the time by shutting down critical natural gas infrastructure."

Ercot is partially at fault for not vetting the list, likely never crossed their minds that a company that supplies energy would sign up to be shut down in the event of an energy shortage. Let's be clear, energy providers voluntarily signed up to be shut down in the event of an energy shortage. That is a special kind of stupid.

The most important thing though is that renewables were not the culprit as you falsely claimed in your post above.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

It was the failure of the green energy sector which created this disaster. And that failure by green energy also pulled down the natural gas backup system with it.

We have been saying this for a long time now, and here is the actual proof.

"Officials at ERCOT said that the grid operator was unaware that the program to save power actually ended up cutting off some of the much-needed natural gas supply at the time by shutting down critical natural gas infrastructure."

[turbguy + 1,543]

9 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

It was the failure of the green energy sector which created this disaster. And that failure by green energy also pulled down the natural gas backup system with it.

We have been saying this for a long time now, and here is the actual proof.

"Officials at ERCOT said that the grid operator was unaware that the program to save power actually ended up cutting off some of the much-needed natural gas supply at the time by shutting down critical natural gas infrastructure."

Grid "failures" have occurred before, with absolutely no regard to the source of production.

The grid is man-made.  I will GUARANTEE it will fail again.

As the marine architect told the Captain on the Titanic:

"She made of iron, I GUARANTEE you will she will sink!

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

3 hours ago, turbguy said:

Grid "failures" have occurred before, with absolutely no regard to the source of production.

The grid is man-made.  I will GUARANTEE it will fail again.

As the marine architect told the Captain on the Titanic:

"She made of iron, I GUARANTEE you will she will sink!

This particular grid failure began with the failure of the green system of generation, and that failure dominoed into pulling down the backup natural gas generation system.

This is just what we claimed all along.

[Ecocharger + 1,473]

Here is how Europe has embraced the Green Dream...with words only.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Fuel-Sales-In-The-UK-Surge-Adding-Bullish-Note-To-Global-Oil-Outlook.html

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Here is how Europe has embraced the Green Dream...with words only.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Fuel-Sales-In-The-UK-Surge-Adding-Bullish-Note-To-Global-Oil-Outlook.html

March new passenger plug-in electric cars registered in Europe are 16% of the total market. 

In March 2021, plug-in electric car sales in Europe increased by 169% year-over-year

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,245]

The 2021 Porsche Taycan starts at $79,990 and comes with a 79-kWh lithium-ion battery. A 93-kWh battery pack (Performance Battery Plus) is optional for $6,580. 

How many miles can a Taycan go on a charge?

For example, an equivalent 2021 Taycan 4S is now EPA rated at 227 miles, while a smaller, 71.0-kWh battery is newly available on the 2021 Taycan 4S, and it's good for 199 miles, according to the EPA.Jan 29, 2021

For close to 90k in usa dollars 227 miles? Lets check out a model S tesla...

2021 Tesla Model 3/MSRP

From $38,990

Long Range $47,990  NOW that is real affordable. Battery charge time: 8.5 to 10h at 220V

 

Is Tesla supercharging cheaper than gas?

That number is based on the EPA's equivalency factor that an average gallon of gas contains 33.7 kWh of energy. ... If we charged solely at Superchargers, however, which, at 26 cents/kWh, costs the equivalent of $8.76 per gallon, that average cost jumps to 10.4 cents per mile and totals to just over $2500.Jan 11, 2021

Guess only the wealthy can afford these cars....A supercharger cost cannot be found and would need dedicated 480v circuit. Not many of us regular Joe's have access to that high voltage at home so looks like a Middle grade charger. The NEMA 14-50 charger for Tesla electric cars plugs into a 240 volt wall outlet, similar to the type used by your clothes dryer or other appliances. A standard Tesla charger with a NEMA 14-50 connector will be able to charge your Tesla battery completely in 10 hours (for the Model S) to 10 ½ hours (for the Model X). Don't forget to pay the electrician to run 220 to garage from your box. Probably another 1000 bucks. 

My observation on this whole EV crap is only the upper middle class can afford to buy a EV and have all the necessary junk installed to make it go. Better not be in a hurry as is rather time consuming.  Since I live 20 miles North of Peoria, IL a drive to Chicago, about 135 miles, would be unlikely unless you know where to "plug-in". Or is your secondary expensive toy and just use my Duromax 2019 model and fill and gooooo.

[turbguy + 1,543]

9 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

This particular grid failure began with the failure of the green system of generation, and that failure dominoed into pulling down the backup natural gas generation system.

This is just what we claimed all along.

If that is true, has Texas "fixed" that line of dominoes yet??  Simple issue, simple fix.

Someone at ERCOT should have started the Nat Gas backup a couple hours earlier, no?

Coal plants should have been treating/breaking up the coal pile hours earlier as well.

Or was excess heating demand for Nat Gas and Electricity part of those dominoes?

It ain't so simple as to blame one source of generation for the grid stress.  It is MUCH more complex than that (although  a simple view might make your feelings justified).

Unless someone in Texas insists it be fixed, it can happen again.

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by turbguy

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:39 AM, Old-Ruffneck said:

I put 40 gallons of diesel in my truck and can run 750 miles. Can your car do that? Can you pull a 16,000 trailer?  Not in near or even close future. Yer a blabbering idiot Jay that should find a site that more suits your "Green" way of thinking. You haven't a clue as to how much petrol it takes to mine that copper, or lithium etc. And tearing up the earth to do it. 

You drive that whole 750 miles without taking one or two 40 minute breaks? How many miles can your truck run towing that 16,000 trailer? EV towing capacity is increasing rapidly, you are just clueless about the rate at which EV's are advancing. The Rivian that is about to go on sale is rated at 11,000 towing and it will be outdone by Tesla next year with the dual motor Cybertruck and so on. Every year there will be something better. The tri motor Cybertruck is rated at 14,000+ towing and a non towing range of 500+ miles. It is due out in two or three years. 

Regardless, no one is calling for ice bans before 2035 and even then there will be an allowance for 20% of the market to be PHEV.  That is a long time for EV's to overtake even the biggest ice, worst case is that super duty trucks are made as PHEV. The EV revolution is just getting started.

Today it takes the same amount of petrol per car produced to support EV production as it does to support the oil industry and ICE. However as EV production increases the supply chain will become ever more electrified. Eventually the entire EV supply chain will be electric. Something a mush mind like yours just can't comprehend. It is hilarious how a little economic reality throws you snowflakes into a tizzy.  

Edited May 10, 2021 by Jay McKinsey

[Old-Ruffneck + 1,245]

8 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The Rivian that is about to go on sale is rated at 11,000 towing

Classmate is a foreman at the Rivian plant there in Bloomington, Il. He is quite impressed with the units of first production and in my business it wouldn't make sense to spend 125k on a truck or whatever tesla is calling their prototype seen about. You mustn't forget to add in all the equipment to charge small fleet. Then there is the insurance costs on that expensive of a unit. Full replacement coverage is going to be expensive as no shops equipped to work on them around here. Yes I can pull a wagon load of debris 70 miles round trip to Peoria County landfill and average With my 2001 Ford 7.3 diesel about 13 mpg, the newer Ford 2018 350 with the 6.7 avg same load and miles 15mpg. Chevy 2019 duromax 6.6 diesel about 16mpg all pulling same. I have a 99 Ford in shop with 7.3 with 6 speed manual that gets better yet as the overdrive is decent. Go to the landfill you need not be too concerned for the vehicle as crap happens and scratches small dings and many flats. Need good mudder tires. I have been in business 33 years and seen alot of change. Men are men and if its not their vehicle they won't treat as theirs. So I try my best to find older pullers. Newer are write offs and look good when I go to meet and greet customers. 

Right below your last post I posted what the cars cost from nice to plain. The charging times etc. Still the average person making 17 bucks an hour won't be able to afford EV's. My wife 2020 Rav4 hybrid AWD for size of car comes at a premium also. Add 10k for hybrid Toyotas.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Old-Ruffneck
add

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

6 minutes ago, Old-Ruffneck said:

Classmate is a foreman at the Rivian plant there in Bloomington, Il. He is quite impressed with the units of first production and in my business it wouldn't make sense to spend 125k on a truck or whatever tesla is calling their prototype seen about. You mustn't forget to add in all the equipment to charge small fleet. Then there is the insurance costs on that expensive of a unit. Full replacement coverage is going to be expensive as no shops equipped to work on them around here. Yes I can pull a wagon load of debris 70 miles round trip to Peoria County landfill and average With my 2001 Ford 7.3 diesel about 13 mpg, the newer Ford 2018 350 with the 6.7 avg same load and miles 15mpg. Chevy 2019 duromax 6.6 diesel about 16mpg all pulling same. I have a 99 Ford in shop with 7.3 with 6 speed manual that gets better yet as the overdrive is decent. Go to the landfill you need not be too concerned for the vehicle as crap happens and scratches small dings and many flats. Need good mudder tires. I have been in business 33 years and seen alot of change. Men are men and if its not their vehicle they won't treat as theirs. So I try my best to find older pullers. Newer are write offs and look good when I go to meet and greet customers. 

The Rivian starts at $67,500, not $125K. In 10 years you can buy a used one for a lot less, just like ice and not worry about it getting scratched. The added cost for 240V charging equipment is negligible. Easily made back with savings on fuel.