GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Boat + 1,325]

7 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Again, Jay, this percentage of market is really not the full story, you have to look at total vehicle market, including trucks, and used vehicles, which are huge markets, and that gives something like a 1% share of market for EVs....just a pin-prick on the total, not even worth mentioning.

Can you show me your chart for Mongolian coal? Demand for electricity from EV’s in China is bigger? Lol 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

France to cut carbon emissions, Russian energy influence with 14 nuclear reactors

 

The move is a sharp reversal of Macron’s earlier pledge to close several reactors over the next decade or so. National politics almost certainly play a role—the nuclear power sector in France employs around 220,000 people, according to one estimate. “What our country needs is the rebirth of France’s nuclear industry,” Macron said at a nuclear turbine factory that EDF had just purchased from GE. “The time has come for a nuclear renaissance,” he said.

 

 

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/02/france-to-cut-carbon-emissions-russian-energy-influence-with-14-nuclear-reactors/

Edited February 15, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

12 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

Why on earth would you count sales of used vehicles?  They don't qualify as sales to makers of new vehicles at all.  It doesn't matter if they make ICE or EV's

Used vehicles are a huge market, several times the size of new vehicle markets, and used vehicles ARE new vehicles as far as the purchaser is concerned, so they compete head-on and directly with the new vehicles in the competition for the transportation dollar. There is no reason not to include them in the vehicle market.

EVs do not have a used market, no one wants to buy a vehicle which requires a major expense to replace the power source. That has killed the growth of an EV used market.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

12 hours ago, Boat said:

Can you show me your chart for Mongolian coal? Demand for electricity from EV’s in China is bigger? Lol 

You asked for this, so I hope that you don't keel over when reading it, Boat.

Coal demand is hot and getting hotter, it is time for you to accept that.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Study-Banks-Pumped-15-Trillion-In-Coal-Since-2019.html

"The economic rebound from the pandemic took coal power generation to a new record high last year, with global coal demand likely hitting another new high this year, undermining net-zero efforts, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said in its annual Coal 2021 report in December. Based on current trends, global coal demand is set to rise to 8025 Mt in 2022, the highest level ever seen, and to remain there through 2024, the IEA estimates.

The report from Urgewald on coal financing comes as ShareAction published another report on Monday, showing that since 2016, European banks have provided over $400 billion to the top 50 companies expanding oil and gas production."

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

EVs do not have a used market, no one wants to buy a vehicle which requires a major expense to replace the power source. That has killed the growth of an EV used market.

Just another of your claims without evidence.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Just another of your claims without evidence.

I posted studies of  EV used vehicle markets ads, which were miniscule.  Are you giving us more empty hot air from the king of hot air, Jay? You still haven't answered that point above about recalls, another of your lost causes?

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

The lost cause of all lost causes, the Green Maniacs have constricted energy markets and driven up the price of energy to record levels. Talk about self-destructive political frenzy! This is the apex of failure for misguided and misinformed political action.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Energy-Stocks-Are-Still-Undervalued-Despite-Massive-Oil-Price-Rally.html

"...overall, the bullish thesis remains intact, with many analysts predicting that oil prices will remain elevated for years as demand continues outstripping supply. In a report provided to clients on Feb. 10, analysts at BCA Research said they believe prices will rise over the next decade thanks to government action that curbs fossil-fuel production as well as "climate activism at the board level at major energy suppliers and in the courtroom."

The energy sector is the best-performing of all the 11 U.S. market sectors in the current year, boasting a 26.9% YTD return vs. -7.2% by the S&P 500. The Energy Select Sector SPDR ETF (NYSEARCA:XLE) has jumped 60% over the past 12 months."

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

I posted studies of  EV used vehicle markets ads, which were miniscule.  More empty hot air from the king of hot air, Jay? You still haven't answered that point above about recalls, another of your lost causes?

The EV market ads were miniscule compared to ICE because very few EVs had been produced. That is changing and there is no shortage of demand for used EVs. "The Tesla Model 3 is the fastest-selling used vehicle for the fourth consecutive month." https://www.iseecars.com/fastest-selling-cars-study#v=202109

There is nothing to answer. You offered that quote as evidence to support your claims and now you say it does not contain sufficient data to support your claims. You need to prove your claims. If you don't prove your claims then you are the one spouting hot air. Get to work.

"ICE auto makers do not recall more vehicles than they produce"- you provided no data to support this claim

"GM and Ford recalls are only a tiny percentage of production"- you provided no data to support this claim

"whereas for Tesla the recall rate as a proportion of production was over 100%"-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

"That still puts Tesla below the others."-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

Edited February 15, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

The Green Mania is now officially dead, as the U.S. unwinds its mistaken and foolish attack on basic energy supplies.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Climate-Action-Faces-Reality-Check-In-The-Energy-Crisis.html

"In the United States, coal is making a transitory comeback as annual U.S. coal-fired electricity generation rose in 2021 for the first time since 2014 as high natural gas prices incentivize more coal use in electricity generation. U.S. coal production will increase by almost 5 percent in 2022 and then rise by another 3 percent in 2023, the EIA says.

As a result of surging coal-fired power generation in 2021, the progress in U.S. emission reduction was reversed last year, moving from 22.2 percent below 2005 levels in 2020 to only 17.4 percent in 2021, "putting the US even further off track from achieving its 2025 and 2030 climate targets," Rhodium Group said in an estimate last month.

The economic rebound from the pandemic took world coal power generation to a new record high last year, with global coal demand likely hitting another new high this year, undermining net-zero efforts, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said in its annual Coal 2021 report in December.

"The fast rebound in overall energy demand strained supply chains for coal and natural gas, pushing up wholesale electricity prices. Despite the impressive growth of renewable power, electricity generation from coal and gas hit record levels. As a result, the global electricity sector's annual carbon dioxide emissions leaped to a new all-time high after having decreased for the previous two years," the IEA said in its Electricity Market Report - January 2022 with 2021 data.

Moreover, coal met more than half of the increase in global electricity demand last year, the IEA said."

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

9 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The EV market ads were miniscule compared to ICE because very few EVs had been produced. That is changing and there is no shortage of demand for used EVs. "The Tesla Model 3 is the fastest-selling used vehicle for the fourth consecutive month." https://www.iseecars.com/fastest-selling-cars-study#v=202109

There is nothing to answer. You offered that quote as evidence to support your claims and now you say it does not contain sufficient data to support your claims. You need to prove your claims. If you don't prove your claims then you are the one spouting hot air. Get to work.

"ICE auto makers do not recall more vehicles than they produce"- you provided no data to support this claim

"GM and Ford recalls are only a tiny percentage of production"- you provided no data to support this claim

"whereas for Tesla the recall rate as a proportion of production was over 100%"-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

"That still puts Tesla below the others."-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

You tried to make a point which was fallacious, recalls as a percentage of production should be based on the production year in which the recalls were produced, not some later year....how could you make such a basic error, Jay?  

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

2 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You tried to make a point which was fallacious

And this is new? I might add quite bigly at that!

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

The Green Mania is now officially dead, as the U.S. unwinds its mistaken and foolish attack on basic energy supplies.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Climate-Action-Faces-Reality-Check-In-The-Energy-Crisis.html

"In the United States, coal is making a transitory comeback as annual U.S. coal-fired electricity generation rose in 2021 for the first time since 2014 as high natural gas prices incentivize more coal use in electricity generation. U.S. coal production will increase by almost 5 percent in 2022 and then rise by another 3 percent in 2023, the EIA says.

As a result of surging coal-fired power generation in 2021, the progress in U.S. emission reduction was reversed last year, moving from 22.2 percent below 2005 levels in 2020 to only 17.4 percent in 2021, "putting the US even further off track from achieving its 2025 and 2030 climate targets," Rhodium Group said in an estimate last month.

The economic rebound from the pandemic took world coal power generation to a new record high last year, with global coal demand likely hitting another new high this year, undermining net-zero efforts, the International Energy Agency (IEA) said in its annual Coal 2021 report in December.

"The fast rebound in overall energy demand strained supply chains for coal and natural gas, pushing up wholesale electricity prices. Despite the impressive growth of renewable power, electricity generation from coal and gas hit record levels. As a result, the global electricity sector's annual carbon dioxide emissions leaped to a new all-time high after having decreased for the previous two years," the IEA said in its Electricity Market Report - January 2022 with 2021 data.

Moreover, coal met more than half of the increase in global electricity demand last year, the IEA said."

We expect U.S. coal consumption to decrease by 2 MMst in 2022

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/coal.php

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

You tried to make a point which was fallacious, recalls as a percentage of production should be based on the production year in which the recalls were produced, not some later year....how could you make such a basic error, Jay?  

You are the one who made the claims, I told you to prove them. You haven't proven your claims are correct. All you have done is talk out your arse. Are you going to continue to run away from your claims?

Your claims:

"ICE auto makers do not recall more vehicles than they produce"- you provided no data to support this claim

"GM and Ford recalls are only a tiny percentage of production"- you provided no data to support this claim

"whereas for Tesla the recall rate as a proportion of production was over 100%"-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

"That still puts Tesla below the others."-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

Edited February 15, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[Eric Gagen + 713]

17 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Used vehicles are a huge market, several times the size of new vehicle markets, and used vehicles ARE new vehicles as far as the purchaser is concerned, so they compete head-on and directly with the new vehicles in the competition for the transportation dollar. There is no reason not to include them in the vehicle market.

EVs do not have a used market, no one wants to buy a vehicle which requires a major expense to replace the power source. That has killed the growth of an EV used market.

That's all well and good for the people who buy those cars, but it's irrelevant for the people who make new cars, and it's  trailing indicator from if you are trying to see what the present and the future might look like.  It's predictive value for the future is worse than zero, because it includes a lot of ideas that have already been rejected by the market (Delorean and the Pontiac Aztec spring to mind) 

 

The used auto market for electric vehicles doesn't really exist because they are too new for there to be much of one.  The average car is running around for 12 years, and most new car buyers don't get a new one for another 5-10 years. There weren't a lot of EV's on the road yet in that era.  In any case though, it's irrelevent - all used cars were once new cars.  If you want to understand the future of the used car market, look at the new cars being sold now.   

Edited February 15, 2022 by Eric Gagen

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

33 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

That's all well and good for the people who buy those cars, but it's irrelevant for the people who make new cars, and it's  trailing indicator from if you are trying to see what the present and the future might look like.  It's predictive value for the future is worse than zero, because it includes a lot of ideas that have already been rejected by the market (Delorean and the Pontiac Aztec spring to mind) 

 

The used auto market for electric vehicles doesn't really exist because they are too new for there to be much of one.  The average car is running around for 12 years, and most new car buyers don't get a new one for another 5-10 years. There weren't a lot of EV's on the road yet in that era.  In any case though, it's irrelevent - all used cars were once new cars.  If you want to understand the future of the used car market, look at the new cars being sold now.   

An electric Aztec is next.

DeLorean DMC Will Return In 2022 As Luxury Electric Sports Car

The Texas-based company that owns the rights to the DeLorean name teased its upcoming EV.

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/delorean-coming-back-ev-sports-car

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

We expect U.S. coal consumption to decrease by 2 MMst in 2022

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/coal.php

 

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

You are the one who made the claims, I told you to prove them. You haven't proven your claims are correct. All you have done is talk out your arse. Are you going to continue to run away from your claims?

Your claims:

"ICE auto makers do not recall more vehicles than they produce"- you provided no data to support this claim

"GM and Ford recalls are only a tiny percentage of production"- you provided no data to support this claim

"whereas for Tesla the recall rate as a proportion of production was over 100%"-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

"That still puts Tesla below the others."-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

Your calculations were all wrong, as usual, you used the wrong base year for percentage of recalls, and came to the wrong conclusions...just admit it and move on, Jay. I guess you never took that econometrics course.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

1 minute ago, Ecocharger said:

 

Your calculations were all wrong, as usual, using the wrong base year for percentage of recalls...just admit it and move on, Jay.

If you aren't going to prove your claims then I win.

Your claims:

"ICE auto makers do not recall more vehicles than they produce"- you provided no data to support this claim

"GM and Ford recalls are only a tiny percentage of production"- you provided no data to support this claim

"whereas for Tesla the recall rate as a proportion of production was over 100%"-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

"That still puts Tesla below the others."-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

 

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Jay McKinsey

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/02/11/army-unveils-strategy-to-deal-with-global-disruptions-from-climate-change/

Our new green dream military under Demoncrats.

Army Unveils Strategy to Deal with ‘Global Disruptions’ from ‘Climate Change’

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

49 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

That's all well and good for the people who buy those cars, but it's irrelevant for the people who make new cars, and it's  trailing indicator from if you are trying to see what the present and the future might look like.  It's predictive value for the future is worse than zero, because it includes a lot of ideas that have already been rejected by the market (Delorean and the Pontiac Aztec spring to mind) 

 

The used auto market for electric vehicles doesn't really exist because they are too new for there to be much of one.  The average car is running around for 12 years, and most new car buyers don't get a new one for another 5-10 years. There weren't a lot of EV's on the road yet in that era.  In any case though, it's irrelevent - all used cars were once new cars.  If you want to understand the future of the used car market, look at the new cars being sold now.   

No, it is relevant for the new car companies, they usually handle used cars as well and give warranties for the used market. The used market is several times larger than the new market, and used cars compete directly with new cars for the consumer dollar. Bottom line, it is relevant for the vehicle industry and vehicle sales.

EVs will never have a noticeable used market because of the huge powerplant expenses for new batteries. EV sales remain less than 1% of total vehicle sales.

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

If you aren't going to prove your claims then I win.

Your claims:

"ICE auto makers do not recall more vehicles than they produce"- you provided no data to support this claim

"GM and Ford recalls are only a tiny percentage of production"- you provided no data to support this claim

"whereas for Tesla the recall rate as a proportion of production was over 100%"-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

"That still puts Tesla below the others."-you provided insufficient data to support this claim

 

 

Jay, you have already lost. Your numbers were faulty because you used the wrong base year for percentage recalls, that means that your criticism was fallacious. 

Now, you can still enroll in that econometrics course and get up to speed.

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

We expect U.S. coal consumption to decrease by 2 MMst in 2022

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/coal.php

As usual Jay, your selective quotations are completely fallacious. Here is the lead sentence from the EIA report which you somehow managed to ignore.

"We expect U.S. coal production to increase by almost 28 million short tons (MMst) (5%) in 2022 to 606 MMst and then rise by 18 MMst (3%) in 2023. Producers in the Powder River Basin have increased employment at mines in recent months to boost production to meet domestic demand, but we expect tight supply conditions to remain through the remainder of the year."

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

24 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

An electric Aztec is next.

DeLorean DMC Will Return In 2022 As Luxury Electric Sports Car

The Texas-based company that owns the rights to the DeLorean name teased its upcoming EV.

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/delorean-coming-back-ev-sports-car

Did you ever drive a DeLorean? If you liked the DeLorean, you will love the EVs.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

Just now, Ecocharger said:

As usual Jay, your selective quotations are completely fallacious.

"We expect U.S. coal production to increase by almost 28 million short tons (MMst) (5%) in 2022 to 606 MMst and then rise by 18 MMst (3%) in 2023. Producers in the Powder River Basin have increased employment at mines in recent months to boost production to meet domestic demand, but we expect tight supply conditions to remain through the remainder of the year."

 

What a pathetic excuse you are for an economist. You don't know the difference between production and consumption.

My quote is directly from the same page you are citing. Please do explain how it is fallacious?

"We expect U.S. coal consumption to decrease by 2 MMst in 2022"

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/coal.php

 

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

Just now, Jay McKinsey said:

What a pathetic excuse you are for an economist. You don't know the difference between production and consumption.

My quote is directly from the same page you are citing. Please do explain how it is fallacious?

"We expect U.S. coal consumption to decrease by 2 MMst in 2022"

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/coal.php

 

The point I made was that coal production is ramping up worldwide to unprecedented heights.

As usual you are off-topic, that is called "running away" where I come from.

[Eric Gagen + 713]

6 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

No, it is relevant for the new car companies, they usually handle used cars as well and give warranties for the used market. The used market is several times larger than the new market, and used cars compete directly with new cars for the consumer dollar. Bottom line, it is relevant for the vehicle industry and vehicle sales.

EVs will never have a noticeable used market because of the huge powerplant expenses for new batteries. EV sales remain less than 1% of total vehicle sales.

no, they don't.  The dealerships buy and sell used cars.  Not the manufacturers.  That's why you can buy a used Ford from a Kia dealer, because the dealer does that, seperate from the manufacturer.  In some cases 'certified used' vehicles do have some connection with the original manufacturer, but it's much less then you think.  When a warranty is put out by a car dealership for certified used vehicles, it's usually not the original manufacturer that pays for that warranty service - a part of the sale price of the 'certified used car' goes to a 3rd party warranty company (sort of like how new home warranties aren't financed by the home builder).  In other cases it's merely the retailer of the used car following an OEM guideline for classifying the used vehicle.