GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

Oil demand is exceeding supply by substantial margins, meaning only one thing...the price of  fossil fuels is moving up and up. The chief victims of this movement are the folks who drive used ICE vehicles, the same folks who voted for Biden & Co.  Imagine that, victimized by your own leaders, who would have believed it?

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Refining-Industry-Cant-Keep-Up-With-Demand.html

"Inventories of refined products are now near historic lows—and given the refining maintenance season that will soon be upon Asia and Europe, it doesn't look that those historical lows are going to ease substantially.

Most refiners in Asia and Europe enter their refining maintenance season in Q2. But so far, Vortexa says, there is no indication that those refineries have plans to ramp up production ahead of maintenance season to provide a cushion to survive turnaround.

What this means is that today's tightening may soon grow even tighter.

One might find it surprising that today's high global refined products prices aren't enticing refiners to up their runs. But higher costs for refiners as a result of higher natural gas prices, higher crude oil prices, and higher carbon tax costs in Europe are sucking up the extra cracks.

In the United States, gasoline supplies are also low—and falling--in part due to refinery and FCC maintenance in Q1."

Edited February 15, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

5 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

no, they don't.  The dealerships buy and sell used cars.  Not the manufacturers.  That's why you can buy a used Ford from a Kia dealer, because the dealer does that, seperate from the manufacturer.  In some cases 'certified used' vehicles do have some connection with the original manufacturer, but it's much less then you think.  When a warranty is put out by a car dealership for certified used vehicles, it's usually not the original manufacturer that pays for that warranty service - a part of the sale price of the 'certified used car' goes to a 3rd party warranty company (sort of like how new home warranties aren't financed by the home builder).  In other cases it's merely the retailer of the used car following an OEM guideline for classifying the used vehicle.  

You are wandering off-topic on this, Jaguar dealers sell used Jaguars and GM dealers sell used GM products. 

Bottom line, the used ICE market is several times as large as the new ICE market.

[Eric Gagen + 713]

8 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

You are wandering off-topic on this, Jaguar dealers sell used Jaguars and GM dealers sell used GM products. 

Bottom line, the used ICE market is several times as large as the new ICE market.

No, it's exactly on topic.  When a Jaguar dealer sells used Jaguars, it's the dealership selling that used car - not Jaguar.  When a GM dealer sells a used GM, it's the dealership selling that used car - not GM.  I merely picked an example where the make of the used car was different from the flagship franchise marquee to illustrate the point.  

[kshithij Sharma + 78]

8 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

That's all well and good for the people who buy those cars, but it's irrelevant for the people who make new cars, and it's  trailing indicator from if you are trying to see what the present and the future might look like.  It's predictive value for the future is worse than zero, because it includes a lot of ideas that have already been rejected by the market (Delorean and the Pontiac Aztec spring to mind) 

 

The used auto market for electric vehicles doesn't really exist because they are too new for there to be much of one.  The average car is running around for 12 years, and most new car buyers don't get a new one for another 5-10 years. There weren't a lot of EV's on the road yet in that era.  In any case though, it's irrelevent - all used cars were once new cars.  If you want to understand the future of the used car market, look at the new cars being sold now.   

In a way, yes, the manufacturers are not necessarily directly involved in used car market. But having a large used car market is critical for sales figures. Most people expect to get something substantial after selling their cars and will be disappointed to see that their car becomes worthless for resale. This won't affect the luxury car segments but will affect the budget and mid range segment. As of now, EVs are only purchased by elites and relatively well off people and thus belong to the luxury segment. If EVs have to expand into the mass segment, it will have to necessarily have resale value. Otherwise, EVs will at most reach 10% of the market and plateau out. For wide adoption of any product, it is critical to provide value for money.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

11 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

That's all well and good for the people who buy those cars, but it's irrelevant for the people who make new cars, and it's  trailing indicator from if you are trying to see what the present and the future might look like.  It's predictive value for the future is worse than zero, because it includes a lot of ideas that have already been rejected by the market (Delorean and the Pontiac Aztec spring to mind) 

 

The used auto market for electric vehicles doesn't really exist because they are too new for there to be much of one.  The average car is running around for 12 years, and most new car buyers don't get a new one for another 5-10 years. There weren't a lot of EV's on the road yet in that era.  In any case though, it's irrelevent - all used cars were once new cars.  If you want to understand the future of the used car market, look at the new cars being sold now.   

I think you need to look at European data in a couple of years for the used car market for EV's as Europe is a few years ahead of the US in adopting these. I think then you will get some meaningful data, as you say the market is too new at present.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

11 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

An electric Aztec is next.

DeLorean DMC Will Return In 2022 As Luxury Electric Sports Car

The Texas-based company that owns the rights to the DeLorean name teased its upcoming EV.

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/delorean-coming-back-ev-sports-car

The other bonus is when it hits 88 mph you have your very own time machine! bargain!

Not sure why they are bothering making it an EV though as it runs on waste food if my memory is correct.🤣

Edited February 16, 2022 by Rob Plant

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

On 2/8/2022 at 11:00 PM, Eric Gagen said:

Opel is still GM if I understand correctly.  However GM ran Saab straight into the ground.  The Saab name still exists where it is used by the Swedish company for fighter jets and tractor trailers.  

Saab cars, Saab-Scania trucks and Saab Aerospace all went their separate ways before the GM gig.

[Eric Gagen + 713]

7 hours ago, kshithij Sharma said:

In a way, yes, the manufacturers are not necessarily directly involved in used car market. But having a large used car market is critical for sales figures. Most people expect to get something substantial after selling their cars and will be disappointed to see that their car becomes worthless for resale. This won't affect the luxury car segments but will affect the budget and mid range segment. As of now, EVs are only purchased by elites and relatively well off people and thus belong to the luxury segment. If EVs have to expand into the mass segment, it will have to necessarily have resale value. Otherwise, EVs will at most reach 10% of the market and plateau out. For wide adoption of any product, it is critical to provide value for money.

My statement shouldn't be taken to mean EV's have no resale value, and there is no reason to think this will be the case.  It means that the terms for their resale haven't been established yet, because the volume of used EV's to date is too low to provide useful data. 

[Eric Gagen + 713]

2 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Saab cars, Saab-Scania trucks and Saab Aerospace all went their separate ways before the GM gig.

Not the cars - GM manufactured them for a few years before closing/ending the brand.  

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

40 minutes ago, Eric Gagen said:

Not the cars - GM manufactured them for a few years before closing/ending the brand.  

Scania trucks and Saab fighters are still being made. I meant that the brand/factory was split three ways.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

OOPS!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-60390094

[Eric Gagen + 713]

2 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Scania trucks and Saab fighters are still being made. I meant that the brand/factory was split three ways.

Yes.  Those got split off before GM got involved.  That’s why they still exist - GM couldn’t run them into the ground too.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

I think you need to look at European data in a couple of years for the used car market for EV's as Europe is a few years ahead of the US in adopting these. I think then you will get some meaningful data, as you say the market is too new at present.

Odd all this talk of used cars, I took the time to look into the US market. The US used car market is in shambles, most of the market is high mile junk. Junk defined as 200k, powetrains are virtually worn out. What once was s 1000 dollar pile of bones is now a 6000 prize

50,000 mile cars are have hyper inflated almost 5/7 k above a normalized market, things will only get worse.

New car inventories? There are none, th re existing dealer body's will soon begin rationing there new car inventories, meaning stand in line and take a number..only the best need to apply

If the above sounds incredulously insane, shortly it will begin to make headline news

What is occurring is incredible, labor rates now begin at 100 a hour,parts distribution chains are breaking down. The US is in a real mess, over old chip tech supply in Taiwan? One can't make this up, things of this nature just do not happen

 

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

Stellantis pitches jobs outside the company to its French workers

Stellantis is being creative as it trims its French workforce amid an EV shift by encouraging them to apply elsewhere for jobs.

 

The unusual effort is a measure of how hard-pressed CEO Carlos Tavares is to cut the sprawling automaker's payroll in major markets in Europe as he strives to make good on 5 billion euros ($5.7 billion) of synergies pledged as part of the 2021 merger between Fiat Chrysler Automobiles and PSA Group.

France alone could see as many as 10,000 departures by the end of 2025, according to estimates by some unions.

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/stellantis-pitches-jobs-outside-company-its-french-workers

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

On 2/15/2022 at 5:11 PM, Eric Gagen said:

No, it's exactly on topic.  When a Jaguar dealer sells used Jaguars, it's the dealership selling that used car - not Jaguar.  When a GM dealer sells a used GM, it's the dealership selling that used car - not GM.  I merely picked an example where the make of the used car was different from the flagship franchise marquee to illustrate the point.  

That is all well and good, but the point we were discussing is the size and importance of the used car market....it is of HUGE importance and several times larger than the new vehicle  ICE market.

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

Here is where Green mania takes us, you declare war on fossil fuels and what happens? The price goes UP. More so in California than elsewhere.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Gasoline-Prices-Just-Hit-An-All-Time-High-In-California.html

"California's gasoline prices just hit an all-time high on Wednesday, at $4.72 per gallon.

And some experts are suggesting that California could see prices shoot up to as much as $5 per gallon in just a matter of months—or even earlier.

California enjoys some of the highest gasoline prices in the nation.

Some have extrapolated these prices to projections for $5 or even $7 per gallon—nationally. But GasBuddy CEO Patrick De Haan has said that California's high gas prices are not indicative of the rest of the United States."

Edited February 17, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Eric Gagen + 713]

9 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

That is all well and good, but the point we were discussing is the size and importance of the used car market....it is of HUGE importance and several times larger than the new vehicle  ICE market.

No.  That's not the topic.  The topic is the rate at which EV's are being manufactured in comparison to ICE vehicles, and how that impacts the financial health and future decisions of the automotive manufacturers.  The used car market it literally irrelevant to this discussion.

[specinho + 475]

On 2/11/2022 at 3:06 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Uh, you are aware that KITT is a fictional car?

Probably not at all…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KITT#Screen-used_cars

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

Here we go again, more of the same hysteria which has driven up energy prices, strange and foolish panic being exploited by hungry politicians,

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Activist-Fund-Pushes-Insurers-To-Drop-Oil-And-Gas-Clients.html

"Activist investment fund Green Century Capital Management has filed shareholder resolutions aimed at forcing three insurance companies to stop offering coverage to oil and gas companies, MarketWatch reports.

In response, the targets of the arm-twisting attempt—Chubb, Travelers, and The Hartford—filed no-action requests with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The Green Century Capital Management resolutions call on the insurers to “adopt and disclose new policies to help ensure that its underwriting practices do not support new fossil fuel supplies, in alignment with the International Energy Agency (IEA)’s net-zero emissions by 2050 scenario.”

The scenario in question was released as a Road Map to Net Zero by the IEA in May 2021. In it, the agency said the world would not need so much oil and gas in the future, so new oil and gas exploration needs to stop immediately. A few months later, however, the IEA was vocal in its calls on OPEC to boost oil production as demand rose faster than expected.

A growing number of companies from various industries are becoming targets for activist investors, insistent that more action needs to be taken to reduce carbon emissions.

“Investors are demanding that insurance companies stop supporting the rampant expansion of fossil fuels that is driving the climate crisis,” said Elana Sulakshana from the Rainforest Action Network as quoted by MarketWatch."

Edited February 17, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

6 hours ago, Eric Gagen said:

No.  That's not the topic.  The topic is the rate at which EV's are being manufactured in comparison to ICE vehicles, and how that impacts the financial health and future decisions of the automotive manufacturers.  The used car market it literally irrelevant to this discussion.

No, the demand for oil products is related to the proportion of rolling vehicle stock dependent on fossil fuels, that is the topic. EVs are a miniscule less-than 1% of vehicle sales and even less of rolling stock.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Ecocharger + 1,486]

EVs will never constitute a majority share of rolling vehicles, especially if they have difficulties stopping.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Tesla-Faces-Regulatory-Scrutiny-Over-Braking-Defect.html

"The US investigation into Tesla’s malfunctions shows no sign of easing, as the agency in charge of vehicle safety evaluated today 416,000 cars over braking defects.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said today its primary evaluation will focus on 2021-2022 Model 3 and Model Y, following more than 300 complaints of braking issues.

“Complainants report that the rapid deceleration can occur without warning, at random, and often repeatedly in a single drive cycle,” the agency said.

While the EV giant dismissed the complaints, authorities have increasingly put the automotive maker under the microscope.

“Another day, another issue with Tesla,” tweeted Jonathan Adkins, executive director of the Governors Highway Safety Association, the group that represents highway safety agencies. “Good to see NHTSA being more active in reigning this company in, though it is time to require a change in name to Autopilot.”

Just last week, Tesla was forced to recall around 606,000 cars over different issues, bringing the number of recalls made since October to 10.

US senators Richard Blumenthal and Ed Markey a few days prior expressed “significant concern” over the ‘autopilot’ and ‘full self-driving’ systems.

“We are deeply troubled by Tesla’s design choices that seemingly encourage unsafe driving habits,” Blumenthal and Markey wrote in a letter to the Austin-based company, City A.M. reported.

The NHTSA ongoing investigations come at a legally troubled time for Tesla. Chief executive Elon Musk accused today the SEC of targeting them with “endless” and “unrelenting” investigations, Reuters reported."

Edited February 17, 2022 by Ecocharger

[Boat + 1,325]

I am surprised the Gov has not regulated the insane speed and top end of electric cars. The larger pickups look more like an RV which is surprising to me. My wokeness missed that.  Pull out a kitchen and fill a tire with air in miniatures. The trucks camera can film it if you want. Your going to have to learn to edit though. Sandy Monroe has a nice video with the CEO of Rivan and check out their pickup.

[Boat + 1,325]

Featuring Angelina Jordon. The leader of the woke. Singing You Don’t Own Me
 

https://youtu.be/gXOPpwucDYw

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

2 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Here we go again, more of the same hysteria which has driven up energy prices, strange and foolish panic being exploited by hungry politicians,

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Activist-Fund-Pushes-Insurers-To-Drop-Oil-And-Gas-Clients.html

"Activist investment fund Green Century Capital Management has filed shareholder resolutions aimed at forcing three insurance companies to stop offering coverage to oil and gas companies, MarketWatch reports.

In response, the targets of the arm-twisting attempt—Chubb, Travelers, and The Hartford—filed no-action requests with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The Green Century Capital Management resolutions call on the insurers to “adopt and disclose new policies to help ensure that its underwriting practices do not support new fossil fuel supplies, in alignment with the International Energy Agency (IEA)’s net-zero emissions by 2050 scenario.”

The scenario in question was released as a Road Map to Net Zero by the IEA in May 2021. In it, the agency said the world would not need so much oil and gas in the future, so new oil and gas exploration needs to stop immediately. A few months later, however, the IEA was vocal in its calls on OPEC to boost oil production as demand rose faster than expected.

A growing number of companies from various industries are becoming targets for activist investors, insistent that more action needs to be taken to reduce carbon emissions.

“Investors are demanding that insurance companies stop supporting the rampant expansion of fossil fuels that is driving the climate crisis,” said Elana Sulakshana from the Rainforest Action Network as quoted by MarketWatch."

Welcome to the free market.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

China's Jan wholesale sales of passenger NEVs at 412,000 units, up 140% year-on-year

https://cnevpost.com/2022/02/14/chinas-jan-wholesale-sales-of-passenger-nevs-at-412000-units-up-140-year-on-year/#:~:text=The penetration rate of NEVs,from 22.6 percent in December.