Ron Wagner + 710 May 24, 2022 On 5/22/2022 at 9:29 PM, Ecocharger said: Burning gas keeps the lights on for this old world...that sounds good to me. Natural gas is about as clean a fuel as there is. I burn it to heat my house and just keep a window cracked right above it. The world is full of false propaganda against natural gas. It has more potential than any other energy and has allowed America to have the cleanest air of any major industrialized nation. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 May 24, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Not necessarily, some people buy both ICE and EV vehicles. That is why there is not perfect substitution between the two products, both have growing outputs. You have to do statistical studies of cross-market price elasticities to find the degree of market independence. In this case it would not be anywhere close to perfect. And those people drive their EVs as much as possible and keep their ICE as specialty / collectors items. Why else would you buy one of each? Edited May 24, 2022 by Jay McKinsey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 May 24, 2022 (edited) On 5/22/2022 at 9:16 PM, Jay McKinsey said: Yes, where you could not understand the concept of me showing you the actual agreement that the dealers signed. Jay you are one bloviating machine. Due NOTICE the distinctions...Then again perhaps not..after all it is your way. Choice of Law Issues in Franchise and Dealership Agreements. https://www.leydiglaw.com/articles/choice-of-law-issues-in-franchise-and-dealership-agreements/ I see your still deferring your thoughts to others. I find it astounding you cannot or will not share some personal marketing depth. Edited May 24, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 May 24, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Jay you are one bloviating machine. Due NOTICE the distinctions...Then again perhaps not..after all it is your way. Choice of Law Issues in Franchise and Dealership Agreements. You magnificent imbecile. You didn't post an actual link. But that doesn't matter because what you could not comprehend is that I posted the actual agreement the dealers signed. Apparently you still can't comprehend that. Choice of law issues are irrelevant. The agreement they sign says absolutely nothing about whether they can sell cars through other agreements with other dealers or directly. If you keep up this abject stupidity I will have to again show you to be the dullard that you are. Now Volkswagen has announced the new Scout division is going to be direct to consumer and the dealers are up in arms about it with no legal recourse. Edited May 24, 2022 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 May 24, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Apparently you still can't comprehend that. Choice of law issues are irrelevant. The agreement they sign says absolutely nothing about whether they can sell cars through other agreements with other dealers or directly. Have a read...lmao I told you Ford would not split and they did not. The Family interceded. Long night Jay feeling a smidge crabby? Or is this Green Socialist debacle wearing you a smidge thin? https://www.leydiglaw.com/articles/choice-of-law-issues-in-franchise-and-dealership-agreements/ Edited May 24, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 May 24, 2022 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: Volkswagen has announced the new Scout division is going to be direct to consumer and the dealers are up in arms about it with no legal recourse. Oh good for VW, perhaps this failure will keep them closer to home. Edited May 24, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 May 24, 2022 9 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Have a read...lmao https://www.leydiglaw.com/articles/choice-of-law-issues-in-franchise-and-dealership-agreements/ As I knew, it is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. Nothing in the dealership agreement denies the right of the OEM to sell vehicles through other agreements or directly and nothing in state law demands that this requirement be included. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 May 24, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: As I knew, it is totally irrelevant to the issue at hand. Nothing in the dealership agreement denies the right of the OEM to sell vehicles through other agreements or directly and nothing in state law demands that this requirement be included. Do not practice law..you have some emotional issues. Actually Jay it's getting late. You posted a SEC franchise agreement crying havoc. You do understand a dealer agreement is not franchise law. Edited May 24, 2022 by Eyes Wide Open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 May 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Oh good for VW, perhaps this failure will keep them closer to home. More likely it will be their big break through to the American market. You should watch what John McElroy at Autoline (and old school car guy) has to say about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGQC0NYDfs8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 May 24, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said: Do not practice law..you have some emotional issues. It's called an education and I accept your capitulation. Edited May 24, 2022 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 24, 2022 (edited) New EVs in the next couple of years for the US market (does not include ones you can buy today)......Please add to the list and please post the ones you can already buy...............Enjoy the future is here today...Eat your heart out Ecochump 2023 bZ4X Toyota 2023 BMW i7 2022 ID.4 Volkswagen 2024 Buick Electra 2025 Chrysler Airflow 2023 Aston Martin Lagonda All-Terrain 2024 Polestar 5 Volvo 2022 Volkswagen ID.Space Vizzion 2022 Maserati MC20 EV 2025 ? Chevrolet Corvette EV 2026 Volkswagen Project Trinity 2024 Acura Electric SUV 2024 Audi A6 e-tron 2022 Bollinger B2 2025 Cadillac Celestiq 2024 Canoo Pickup Truck 2023 Chevrolet Silverado Electric pickup 2024 Dodge eMuscle 2024 or2025? Ford Explorer EV 2022 Genesis G80 Electrified Hyundai 2022 Genesis GV60 Hyundai 2023 GMC Sierra EV 2024 Honda Prologue 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 6 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB 2022 Nissan Ariya 2023 Polestar 3 Volvo 2022 Polestar 2 Volvo 2023 Porsche Macan EV 2024 Ram 1500 Electric 2022 Tesla Cybertruck 2023 Volkswagen ID. Buzz 2022 Volvo C40 Recharge Edited May 24, 2022 by notsonice 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP May 24, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: It has more potential than any other energy and has allowed America to have the cleanest air of any major industrialized nation. Nope not even close Ron, USA doesnt even get in the top 10 https://www.u-earth.eu/post/world-most-least-polluted-countries https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pollution-by-country Canada and Australia unsurprisingly due to their lower population density and larger land area are way better. According to the below list on air quality the US ranks 23rd https://www.atlasandboots.com/travel-blog/which-country-has-the-cleanest-air-in-the-world/ Edited May 24, 2022 by Rob Plant 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE May 24, 2022 8 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: Natural gas is about as clean a fuel as there is. I burn it to heat my house and just keep a window cracked right above it. The world is full of false propaganda against natural gas. It has more potential than any other energy and has allowed America to have the cleanest air of any major industrialized nation. Huh? You don't use a proper furnace? This may explain a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Polyphia + 83 LT May 24, 2022 9 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Huh? You don't use a proper furnace? This may explain a lot. That response made me do a spit take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Old-Ruffneck + 1,246 er May 24, 2022 9 hours ago, TailingsPond said: Huh? You don't use a proper furnace? This may explain a lot. Possibly Ron uses a ventless gas heater, very common throughout the u.s.of a. While they are 100% efficient they do put alot of moisture and some vapors. If you don't know what a ventless heater is google it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,555 May 24, 2022 15 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: It's called an education and I accept your capitulation. I see stunted savant was a overly generous description, perhaps the abridged version would be in order.." Stunted" no speculation required. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,475 DL May 25, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: And those people drive their EVs as much as possible and keep their ICE as specialty / collectors items. Why else would you buy one of each? Jay, this is a standard analysis of markets using estimates of cross-market price elasticities. And even that does not mean that one product has displaced another product, it just shows how much demand shifts between products according to price changes. Both products could increase if the sector to which they belong also experiences demand increases. The idea that one product displaces another is economic nonsense. Edited May 25, 2022 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,475 DL May 25, 2022 (edited) The demand for oil and gasoline has increased in spite of increasing oil and gasoline prices. That shows how central and essential fossil fuels are for standard transportation needs. https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/WTI-Spikes-On-Large-Draw-In-Gasoline-Inventories.html "This week, the API reported a large draw in gasoline inventories of 4.223 million barrels for the week ending May 20—on top of the previous week's 5.102-million-barrel draw. Distillate stocks also saw a draw in inventory, of 949,000 barrels for the week compared to last week's 1.075-million-barrel increase. Cushing saw a 731,000-barrel draw this week. Cushing inventories crashed to 25.839 million barrels in the week prior, as of May 13, according to EIA data—down from 59.2 million barrels at the start of 2021, and down from 37.3 million barrels at the end of 2021." Edited May 25, 2022 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,475 DL May 25, 2022 19 hours ago, notsonice said: New EVs in the next couple of years for the US market (does not include ones you can buy today)......Please add to the list and please post the ones you can already buy...............Enjoy the future is here today...Eat your heart out Ecochump 2023 bZ4X Toyota 2023 BMW i7 2022 ID.4 Volkswagen 2024 Buick Electra 2025 Chrysler Airflow 2023 Aston Martin Lagonda All-Terrain 2024 Polestar 5 Volvo 2022 Volkswagen ID.Space Vizzion 2022 Maserati MC20 EV 2025 ? Chevrolet Corvette EV 2026 Volkswagen Project Trinity 2024 Acura Electric SUV 2024 Audi A6 e-tron 2022 Bollinger B2 2025 Cadillac Celestiq 2024 Canoo Pickup Truck 2023 Chevrolet Silverado Electric pickup 2024 Dodge eMuscle 2024 or2025? Ford Explorer EV 2022 Genesis G80 Electrified Hyundai 2022 Genesis GV60 Hyundai 2023 GMC Sierra EV 2024 Honda Prologue 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 6 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB 2022 Nissan Ariya 2023 Polestar 3 Volvo 2022 Polestar 2 Volvo 2023 Porsche Macan EV 2024 Ram 1500 Electric 2022 Tesla Cybertruck 2023 Volkswagen ID. Buzz 2022 Volvo C40 Recharge EVs are and will remain less than 1% of the vehicle market. Sorry to spoil your celebration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,475 DL May 25, 2022 20 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: It's called an education and I accept your capitulation. It is time for you to get an education in economics...you have come to the right place, Jay. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 May 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: Jay, this is a standard analysis of markets using estimates of cross-market price elasticities. And even that does not mean that one product has displaced another product, it just shows how much demand shifts between products according to price changes. Both products could increase if the sector too which they belong also increases. The idea that one product displaces another is economic nonsense. You keep confusing the future and the past. We have the actual numbers for the past. The past is a zero sum market. And if demand shifts between products according to price changes that is the absolute definition of product substitution. This is basic economics. In economics, products are often substitutes if the demand for one product increases when the price of the other goes up. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/substitute.asp#:~:text=In economics%2C products are often,lower prices in the marketplace. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 710 May 25, 2022 19 hours ago, notsonice said: New EVs in the next couple of years for the US market (does not include ones you can buy today)......Please add to the list and please post the ones you can already buy...............Enjoy the future is here today...Eat your heart out Ecochump 2023 bZ4X Toyota 2023 BMW i7 2022 ID.4 Volkswagen 2024 Buick Electra 2025 Chrysler Airflow 2023 Aston Martin Lagonda All-Terrain 2024 Polestar 5 Volvo 2022 Volkswagen ID.Space Vizzion 2022 Maserati MC20 EV 2025 ? Chevrolet Corvette EV 2026 Volkswagen Project Trinity 2024 Acura Electric SUV 2024 Audi A6 e-tron 2022 Bollinger B2 2025 Cadillac Celestiq 2024 Canoo Pickup Truck 2023 Chevrolet Silverado Electric pickup 2024 Dodge eMuscle 2024 or2025? Ford Explorer EV 2022 Genesis G80 Electrified Hyundai 2022 Genesis GV60 Hyundai 2023 GMC Sierra EV 2024 Honda Prologue 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 6 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQB 2022 Nissan Ariya 2023 Polestar 3 Volvo 2022 Polestar 2 Volvo 2023 Porsche Macan EV 2024 Ram 1500 Electric 2022 Tesla Cybertruck 2023 Volkswagen ID. Buzz 2022 Volvo C40 Recharge Great, I hope they do well and and there is enough electricity to keep them running. Just don't expect wind and solar to be up to the job anytime soon. I also hope that they are affordable vehicles, which I doubt we will seeing anytime soon. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 May 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ron Wagner said: Great, I hope they do well and and there is enough electricity to keep them running. Just don't expect wind and solar to be up to the job anytime soon. I also hope that they are affordable vehicles, which I doubt we will seeing anytime soon. California Q1 sales of Tesla Model Y 22K, Model 3 21K, Mitsubishi Mirage 418. https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-1Q-22-002.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,475 DL May 25, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: You keep confusing the future and the past. We have the actual numbers for the past. The past is a zero sum market. And if demand shifts between products according to price changes that is the absolute definition of product substitution. This is basic economics. In economics, products are often substitutes if the demand for one product increases when the price of the other goes up. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/substitute.asp#:~:text=In economics%2C products are often,lower prices in the marketplace. The shift in demand can happen even if demand for both products increases, Jay. That is where you and your mistaken links are missing the point. You are trying to suggest that this is a zero-sum game where the producers compete over a larger piece of the pie, whereas in reality the pie itself may grow or decline, and both producers experience an increase or decrease in demand for their product. That is the same mistake that trade commentators make about the impact of tariffs on trade, looking only at a static production model and forgetting the impact of trade policy on the growth or decline of overall production. A common error which is basic to the type of empty propaganda which you seem to be attracted to. Edited May 25, 2022 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,475 DL May 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: California Q1 sales of Tesla Model Y 22K, Model 3 21K, Mitsubishi Mirage 418. https://www.cncda.org/wp-content/uploads/Cal-Covering-1Q-22-002.pdf Again, you need to look at the overall market for vehicles to gain any sense of relative achievement for the EV sector. That EV sector remains at less than 1%, and will continue to be there as long as overall vehicle markets continue to grow and increase the amount of ICE vehicles sold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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