JM

GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

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(edited)

The trend of government policies will result in more expensive energy for everyone, which means a loss of real income for everyone. This cruel reality will eventually sink in to the voter's minds, but in the short-term oil prices will remain overheated.

There is no way to overcome the underlying economic realities. Shale will no longer balance or contain the price of energy.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil-opec-shale/exclusive-opec-told-to-expect-limited-us-oil-output-growth-for-now-sources-idUSKCN2DU1DU

“It looks like the shale oil genie is going to stay in the bottle for now,” said the source at one of the companies that provided forecasts. “OPEC and Saudi Arabia have a lot of power at this time.”

 

Edited by Ecocharger
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In about a year from now More or Less the greenies and there attacks on Corporate investments in the oil industry will start to see a downward trend in oil supply, within the next 2 years we will have a severe energy shortage that the pie in the sky greenies didn’t see coming and green energy will not be enough to replace the oil losses, Then you will see major damage and backlash over the over hyped green energy Revolution and the finger pointing will start if in fact war’s! 
 

Your underdeveloped Countries that are now through technology are just starting to be able to get at a cheap source of energy and are going to be kneecapped! 
 

This is going to escalate quickly and only God knows the outcome but it will not be pretty!

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(edited)

Peak oil? It may not come at all, we may just see an era of slower oil growth.

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/pandemic-brings-forward-predictions-peak-oil-demand-2021-04-21/

"Goldman Sachs - after 2030

 

The rise in electric cars, renewable energy and plastics recycling will sap oil demand but growth in developing countries will push a peak beyond 2030, Goldman Sachs said.

"We do not expect global oil demand to peak before 2030 in our base case driven by solid fundamental economic growth, emerging market demographics and relatively low oil prices," the bank said."

Edited by Ecocharger
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On 6/15/2021 at 11:13 AM, Ecocharger said:

Further evidence that the battery revolution will only succeed if governments force a mandate to buy batteries and ban the sale of natural gas and oil...in other words, government takes control of the market and disallows individual choice for citizens. That is where this Green nonsense is taking us.

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Fuel-Cells/The-Biggest-Threat-To-Europes-Battery-Boom.html

image.png.3b3e918070df8727ac494ed00941d739.png

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On 6/17/2021 at 8:53 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

Petrol taxes have been the same in the UK for a decade. Since your article was written oil has returned to normal and the underlying cost of petrol in the UK has increased by 50%. 

They are taxing auto travel in London because of extreme congestion and the density of grid lock and pollution it causes. To avoid it just ride that great subway system you mention, take a taxi or get a low emission vehicle. 

They are having great results doing it the renewable way. 


Six companies are in talks with the UK about building so-called gigafactories for production of batteries for electric cars in moves that could secure the future of Britain’s automobile industry. Carmakers Ford and Nissan, conglomerates LG and Samsung, and start-ups Britishvolt and InoBat Auto are in discussions with the UK government or local authorities about locations for potential factories and financial support, according to people briefed on the talks. While Britishvolt has gone public with its project, the other companies’ discussions with the government or councils about gigafactories have so far been private. The plans by Nissan, the largest carmaker in the UK, were revealed by the Financial Times last month. The British government has put securing car battery investment at the heart of efforts to sustain the country’s auto industry, as ministers pursue ambitious plans to cut carbon emissions. The government’s plan to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030 and hybrids by 2035 will require the UK’s vehicle plants to shift to producing electric models.

https://www.ft.com/content/eeba6823-bffc-4f96-8f98-5722c7db43f6

 

 

They need to allow natural gas vehicles especially for the large ones. They are still burning some coal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom

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22 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

They need to allow natural gas vehicles especially for the large ones. They are still burning some coal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_the_United_Kingdom

What makes you think they aren't allowed? A quick search indicates that natural gas vehicles are available in UK. 

Britain to be left with just one coal power plant by end of next year

Boris Johnson has pledged to end coal power generation in the UK by 2024

 

 

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9 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

What makes you think they aren't allowed? A quick search indicates that natural gas vehicles are available in UK. 

Britain to be left with just one coal power plant by end of next year

Boris Johnson has pledged to end coal power generation in the UK by 2024

 

 

Surging demand elsewhere....coal is HOT right now.

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(edited)

4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Surging demand elsewhere....coal is HOT right now.

Great! That means its high price will make it that much more uncompetitive with renewables.

Edited by Jay McKinsey
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(edited)

Demand is expected to continue growing for both oil and coal going forward. Prices for both commodities will rise. Coal especially will be in demand if EV's increase in China.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Will-Oil-Hit-100-This-Year.html

"Predictions of $100 oil seem to be more common for the coming years, rather than this year, due to an expected supply deficit, especially around 2025, amid low investments in new supply and still growing global oil demand. "

Next presidential election year in 2024 will be plagued with high oil and gasoline prices, especially if green taxes are levied on gasoline. Biden & Co. should beware the burdens placed on their base supporters.

Edited by Ecocharger

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16 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Demand is expected to continue growing for both oil and coal going forward. Prices for both commodities will rise. Coal especially will be in demand if EV's increase in China.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Will-Oil-Hit-100-This-Year.html

"Predictions of $100 oil seem to be more common for the coming years, rather than this year, due to an expected supply deficit, especially around 2025, amid low investments in new supply and still growing global oil demand. "

Next presidential election year in 2024 will be plagued with high oil and gasoline prices, especially if green taxes are levied on gasoline. Biden & Co. should beware the burdens placed on their base supporters.

Oil & Gas isn't going away any time soon because of developing markets 

The lack of investment in oil exploration and development of new projects particularly offshore should be a major concern to us all. The greens should be very careful of what they wish for. There is a place for renewables but there most definitely is a place and always should be for oil & gas until we find a better/alternative solution, which we haven't as of yet.

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Eco charger is the first to be on an even playing field with Trump lies. I mean you have to work hard to be wrong about so many issues. My favorite is this Trumped up mystical coal demand he can’t support with any data. 
 

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30 minutes ago, Boat said:

Eco charger is the first to be on an even playing field with Trump lies. I mean you have to work hard to be wrong about so many issues. My favorite is this Trumped up mystical coal demand he can’t support with any data. 
 

Here's some!

https://thecoalhub.com/coal-market-outlook-2021-iea.html

And here's some more

https://www.globaldata.com/global-coal-production-expected-rise-3-5-2021-says-globaldata/

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(edited)

11 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

From the first link:

"However, global coal demand in 2021 is still forecast to remain below 2019 levels and could be even lower if the report’s assumptions for the economic recovery, electricity demand or natural gas prices are not met.

The rebound in coal demand in 2021 is set to be short-lived, with coal use forecast to flatten out by 2025 at around 7.4 billion tonnes. This would make 2013, when global coal demand reached 8 billion tonnes, coal’s all-time peak. "

All that is happening is that coal is rebounding from last year but still won't be as high as 2019. Oh and China stopped importing coal from Australia which has resulted in a speculation bubble in China that has really sent the price soaring.

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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(edited)

45 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

From the first link:

"However, global coal demand in 2021 is still forecast to remain below 2019 levels and could be even lower if the report’s assumptions for the economic recovery, electricity demand or natural gas prices are not met.

The rebound in coal demand in 2021 is set to be short-lived, with coal use forecast to flatten out by 2025 at around 7.4 billion tonnes. This would make 2013, when global coal demand reached 8 billion tonnes, coal’s all-time peak. "

All that is happening is that coal is rebounding from last year but still won't be as high as 2019. Oh and China stopped importing coal from Australia which has resulted in a speculation bubble in China that has really sent the price soaring.

Yes agreed 

I was replying to Boat's claim regarding demand increase for coal, which there clearly is until 2025.

I never said it was at its highest ever level.

However you state it wont reach 2019 levels, the graph says it will exceed those levels this year let alone by 2025. In 2025 they forecast coal at 8.8bnt which would be significantly higher than the previous peak of 8.0bnt in 2013. (see second link from globaldata)

The first link and the second link are at odds, and as they are forecasts that is understandable as nobody can warrant the future. Not even you Jay!

See link below where it states "In 2021, we expect recovering economic activity to reverse 2020’s decline in coal demand, with a 4.5% increase pushing global coal demand above 2019 levels."

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-energy-review-2021/coal

Coal is a dirty fuel source, always will be due to its extraction in the first place, there are better alternatives IMO and I hope the second forecast is wrong.

One thing we can be sure of is there isn't going to be a rapid decline in coal production over the next 5 years or so whether we like it or not.

 

Edited by Rob Plant
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(edited)

53 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Yes agreed 

I was replying to Boat's claim regarding demand increase for coal, which there clearly is until 2025.

I never said it was at its highest ever level.

However you state it wont reach 2019 levels, the graph says it will exceed those levels this year let alone by 2025. In 2025 they forecast coal at 8.8bnt which would be significantly higher than the previous peak of 8.0bnt in 2013. (see second link from globaldata)

The first link and the second link are at odds, and as they are forecasts that is understandable as nobody can warrant the future. Not even you Jay!

See link below where it states "In 2021, we expect recovering economic activity to reverse 2020’s decline in coal demand, with a 4.5% increase pushing global coal demand above 2019 levels."

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-energy-review-2021/coal

Coal is a dirty fuel source, always will be due to its extraction in the first place, there are better alternatives IMO and I hope the second forecast is wrong.

One thing we can be sure of is there isn't going to be a rapid decline in coal production over the next 5 years or so whether we like it or not.

 

Well this is going to slow demand down a fair chunk, note that IEA kept mentioning higher NG prices but never mentioned record setting high coal prices:

image.thumb.png.8dd1b7dff32727fe4cdbe460d69a3b05.png

https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/coal-price

Edited by Jay McKinsey

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6 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Well this is going to slow demand down a fair chunk, note that IEA kept mentioning higher NG prices but never mentioned record setting high coal prices:

image.thumb.png.8dd1b7dff32727fe4cdbe460d69a3b05.png

https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/coal-price

It may well slow down the growth Jay, but coal demand clearly is high and is set to remain so for many years.

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3 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

It may well slow down the growth Jay, but coal demand clearly is high and is set to remain so for many years.

Yes, it is going to remain high. But it isn't the massive demand growth that Ecocharger is trying to make it out to be. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes, it is going to remain high. But it isn't the massive demand growth that Ecocharger is trying to make it out to be. 

 

Like i said I was replying to Boat who said this:-

"Eco charger is the first to be on an even playing field with Trump lies. I mean you have to work hard to be wrong about so many issues. My favorite is this Trumped up mystical coal demand he can’t support with any data. "

I was just pointing out his error, maybe a good idea to check the data before throwing stones in glass houses.

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Just now, Rob Plant said:

Like i said I was replying to Boat who said this:-

"Eco charger is the first to be on an even playing field with Trump lies. I mean you have to work hard to be wrong about so many issues. My favorite is this Trumped up mystical coal demand he can’t support with any data. "

I was just pointing out his error, maybe a good idea to check the data before throwing stones in glass houses.

Yes, I know who you were replying to. Rob, all I did was pull out a quote from one of your links to carry the discussion forward. The first link you provided said demand wouldn't surpass 2019. Stones?? What are you talking about? I didn't throw any stones. 

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15 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Yes, I know who you were replying to. Rob, all I did was pull out a quote from one of your links to carry the discussion forward. The first link you provided said demand wouldn't surpass 2019. Stones?? What are you talking about? I didn't throw any stones. 

haha I know you didnt I was referring to Boat

Its the old saying "people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones", ie dont take the piss out of someone if youve got your facts wrong

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(edited)

11 hours ago, Boat said:

Eco charger is the first to be on an even playing field with Trump lies. I mean you have to work hard to be wrong about so many issues. My favorite is this Trumped up mystical coal demand he can’t support with any data. 
 

Read the post above. This page. You missed the Boat again.

"At the same time, coal use for electricity in China is rising. China’s coal-fired power generation increased last year as growing electricity demand outpaced the installations of new clean power capacity, making China the only G-20 country with rising coal generation, climate and energy think tank Ember said in its Global Electricity Review 2021 earlier this year. "

Edited by Ecocharger

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10 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

From the first link:

"However, global coal demand in 2021 is still forecast to remain below 2019 levels and could be even lower if the report’s assumptions for the economic recovery, electricity demand or natural gas prices are not met.

The rebound in coal demand in 2021 is set to be short-lived, with coal use forecast to flatten out by 2025 at around 7.4 billion tonnes. This would make 2013, when global coal demand reached 8 billion tonnes, coal’s all-time peak. "

All that is happening is that coal is rebounding from last year but still won't be as high as 2019. Oh and China stopped importing coal from Australia which has resulted in a speculation bubble in China that has really sent the price soaring.

"Speculation bubbles" happen for a reason....like hot demand for a product.

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4 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

"Speculation bubbles" happen for a reason....like hot demand for a product.

Speculation bubbles create fake demand that far exceeds real demand.

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