footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 May 18, 2023 (edited) On 5/15/2023 at 8:50 AM, NickW said: So why design a wind turbine that won't operate 99% of the time? Most wind turbines are rated up to about 55mph Thereafter they shut down and turn so that they are least resistant to the wind. 55mph wind (Force 10 Beaufort) are extremely rare on land outside of the hurricane zones and very infrequent offshore. Not true at all. Most wind turbines curtail power after ~25mph if not lower. They are most often designed for ~17-->19mph(30km/h) or so(3/4 rated power). Cut in minimum just to get rotor spinning waiting for better wing starts around ~12mph(20km/h) and ~10% rated power at most. Complete shutdown happens around 40mph at most. Maybe an open sea wind turbine with ability to be DESIGNED to a higher base 3/4 operating power level and wind speed(they are), then and ONLY then will such a Wind Turbine operate over 40mph. The power available at 40mph is 4X that of 20mph and why they shut down by this point and often they are turned off below 35mph. 55mph would be ~8X Limiting factor of ALL wind turbines are tower forces which determine size of generator and generator RPM is determined by average wind speed at said location and that is determined by noise regulations at said location. The foundation and Tower cost more than everything else. If you have a $1 to spare, you put into increased tower height EVERY single time. Adios! Edit: and why Ron's statement is beyond stupid. Edited May 18, 2023 by footeab@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 19, 2023 (edited) On 5/16/2023 at 11:50 AM, Boat said: Lol, that’s rather bullish since demand can’t even match the highs of 2019. And yes Mr Eco, you’ve been making similar statements since you showed up here. Let’s not forget your monthly coal growing demand that never materializes. Can’t wait for next months bullish FF prediction. It will be a cut and paste. You know all that nat gas infrastructure being built? All those huge shortages that will drive demand? Looks like the rig counts keep dropping with little demand growth. Oops. I’ve been writing about stranded FF assets for a couple years since renewables hit the cost break even point. Some of us get it while others will always be a crouton short of a nice salad. You always seem to be a day late and a dollar short, old Boat. Oil demand, like coal demand, is registering new all-time highs and will continue to grow. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Oil-Price-Predictions-Have-Become-Oddly-Polarized.html "According to the International Energy Agency, global oil consumption remains on track to rise by 2M bbl/day this year to an all-time high 101.9M bbl/day. Inventories are gradually tightening and should deplete further as OPEC+ implements new production cuts. Crude oil inventories have fallen below the five-year average for the first time this year. Last week, implied gasoline demand rose by 992 thousand barrels per day (kb/d) w/w to a 15-month high of 9.511mb/d." Edited May 19, 2023 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW May 19, 2023 11 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Not true at all. Most wind turbines curtail power after ~25mph if not lower. They are most often designed for ~17-->19mph(30km/h) or so(3/4 rated power). Cut in minimum just to get rotor spinning waiting for better wing starts around ~12mph(20km/h) and ~10% rated power at most. Complete shutdown happens around 40mph at most. Maybe an open sea wind turbine with ability to be DESIGNED to a higher base 3/4 operating power level and wind speed(they are), then and ONLY then will such a Wind Turbine operate over 40mph. The power available at 40mph is 4X that of 20mph and why they shut down by this point and often they are turned off below 35mph. 55mph would be ~8X Limiting factor of ALL wind turbines are tower forces which determine size of generator and generator RPM is determined by average wind speed at said location and that is determined by noise regulations at said location. The foundation and Tower cost more than everything else. If you have a $1 to spare, you put into increased tower height EVERY single time. Adios! Edit: and why Ron's statement is beyond stupid. The data I have seen from Vestas, Siemens, Enercon etc state shut down occurs at wind speeds of around 55mph. Curtailment measures kick in before that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Plant + 2,756 RP May 19, 2023 2 hours ago, NickW said: The data I have seen from Vestas, Siemens, Enercon etc state shut down occurs at wind speeds of around 55mph. Curtailment measures kick in before that. Ahhh yes you cite actual data from the main players in wind. How can you discount Foot and Mouth's opinion?? The font of all knowledge, well in his own head anyway. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW May 19, 2023 12 minutes ago, Rob Plant said: Ahhh yes you cite actual data from the main players in wind. How can you discount Foot and Mouth's opinion?? The font of all knowledge, well in his own head anyway. To be be fair to Foot in Mouth there maybe some low wind speed models (with longer blades for deployment in low wind areas) that have a lower cut out speed but the data I have seen for standard models going back 15-20 years gives cut out speeds of approx 53-57mph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 19, 2023 (edited) 14 hours ago, Ecocharger said: You always seem to be a day late and a dollar short, old Boat. Oil demand, like coal demand, is registering new all-time highs and will continue to grow. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Oil-Price-Predictions-Have-Become-Oddly-Polarized.html "According to the International Energy Agency, global oil consumption remains on track to rise by 2M bbl/day this year to an all-time high 101.9M bbl/day. Inventories are gradually tightening and should deplete further as OPEC+ implements new production cuts. Crude oil inventories have fallen below the five-year average for the first time this year. Last week, implied gasoline demand rose by 992 thousand barrels per day (kb/d) w/w to a 15-month high of 9.511mb/d." like coal demand, is registering new all-time highs and will continue to grow.???? yet you never post anything to back up your bs Coal demand is falling across the board...China is in a badddddd Recession try this one on for size...your beloved saviors China and India are not bailing you out... Metallurgical coal outlook dims even as demand dwindles in India, China The outlook for prime hard metallurgical coal is dim, even as demand dwindles in key end user markets China and India May 17, 2023 By Paul Lim, Olivia Zhang CoalSteel raw materialsSteelChina India monsoon season approaching In India, market sources do not expect any strong uptick in demand ahead of the monsoon season starting in the June-July period. “The monsoon season is coming, and there shouldn’t be any strong demand then,” a trader source in India told Fastmarkets this week. The Southwest Monsoon covered India on July 2 last year, with the rains sweeping in from the south from May 22 onward, before retreating southward from September 20 until October 15, data from the India Meteorological Department showed. The strong steel performance currently being seen in India is also not consistent across sectors, with government infrastructure spending and some tiers of consumer spending propping up steel demand. “Some segments of lower-tier consumption are still not strong, so only government infrastructure and some parts of top-tier consumer spending are present and supporting demand,” a trading analyst in Singapore told Fastmarkets. The last round of restocking in late April/early May has also ceased, and many spot buyers have largely fulfilled their requirements, a second trader source in India said. Traders are also bearish and are already looking to offer down to the $230-235 per tonne FOB Australia levels ... “Traders are also bearish and are already looking to offer down to the $230-235 per tonne FOB Australia levels,” a trader source in Singapore told Fastmarkets on Friday, May 12. But on Tuesday, prices looked to have weakened further, with an Australian PLV cargo heard traded by market sources at $220 per tonne FOB, with PLV offers at $237 per tonne CFR India. This could not be confirmed by any seller. “That’s a little bit low but it’s possible,” a trader source in the UK told Fastmarkets. Fastmarkets’ index for premium hard coking coal, fob DBCT ended at $233.69 per tonne on Monday, down $9.02 per tonne day on day. The Fastmarkets index for hard coking coal, fob DBCT ended at $209.25 per tonne on Monday, down $9.33 per tonne day on day. Sources in the coke markets also do not expect a lot of support from steel mill end users. Offers for 65% CSR coke from Australia were heard at $370 per tonne CFR India. “Demand for coke is also generally weak,” a seller source in Southeast Asia said, adding that this wasn’t unexpected given that restocking demand from India had weakened. A seller source close to a global mining and metals company was similarly bearish. “We can only hope for a better Q3, as even supply issues in Australia this year have not supported prices,” they said. China heading for more coke price cuts China is headed for its 8th round of coke price cuts, sources said, even as steelmakers continued to face thin – even negative – steelmaking margins. “The 8th round of coke price cuts was already proposed by mills last Friday and a few cokeries have already accepted it. [There is] no doubt this round of cuts will fully land,” a coal trader source said on Monday. “At present, mills’ margins are less than 100 yuan [$14] per tonne, whereas coke producers still enjoy 150-200 yuan per tonne. Hence, steel mills certainly want to cut coke prices further,” they said. China’s coke prices have already been cut by 600-700 yuan ($86-$101) per tonne in total since the beginning of April in the last seven rounds of negotiation. “I’ve been expecting this since last year, when Covid-19 restrictions lifted,” a coke seller source in Southeast Asia told Fastmarkets. “This is because larger inflows of Russian and Mongolian coals have displaced coal imports, and created excess coke,” they said. Over January-March, Mongolia coking coal imports from China totaled 11.2 million tonnes, up by over four times year on year. Russia coking coal imports were 7.1 million tonnes in the first quarter, up by 114% year on year, customs statistics showed. A second Chinese coal trader source who mainly sells Russian coking coal told Fastmarkets Russian coking coal has stockpiled at major Chinese ports due to mills’ poor demand. “I’ve never seen such slow buying from steel mills. Previously a 5,000-tonne order could be a small order, so when a mill approached me to buy only 2,000 tonnes, I rejected it. But I’ve realized that 2,000 tonnes is considered a big order, because many mills only want to buy 200-1,000 tonnes at a time,” they told Fastmarkets. Chinese mills intend to keep coking coal inventories at very low level – only enough for around one week of production – to better control production costs as they believe domestic coking coal and coke are on a downward trajectory. This has naturally resulted in mills’ having low interest in imported coking coal with longer delivery time such as Australian and US coking coal, sources noted. “If the prices are on an upward trend, mills will be willing to be Australian coking coal at prices equal to domestic price levels or even slightly above,” the first coal trader source stated on Monday. The same source also said that “with the current market situation, mills will not be interested if Australian coking coal prices are not $10-20 dollars lower than domestic levels.” Edited May 19, 2023 by notsonice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 710 May 19, 2023 On 5/16/2023 at 12:39 AM, specinho said: Thank you. If the most absurd science can have Ig Nobel Prize; the most absurd news could have Most absurd Media Award....... Can my King of Worthless BS be granted a crown, please? Thank you. There, you do not have anything better to say besides negating things you do not want to accept, for some reasons. LEDs ar great but my electric company changed my meter twice after I installed them. The installer wouldn't say why. I never noticed a decrease in my electric bill though! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 710 May 19, 2023 https://www.yahoo.com/autos/tesla-asks-model-y-owner-175028641.html Tesla Asks Model Y Owner To Tow Burned-Out Car To Service Center 299 Ryan Erik King Fri, May 19, 2023 at 12:50 PM CDT Common sense doesn’t seem all that common nowadays. It would be easy to assume that the customer service representative of a car manufacturer would understand that an electric vehicle would be a total loss after it has been consumed by flames like Joan of Arc tied to a stake. However, a Tesla Model Y owner in California had a startling experience both on the road and with customer service. Bishal Malla from Elk Grove, California, was driving his Tesla Model Y while running errands when the EV started shaking. While pulling onto Highway 99, he pulled over to check if his Tesla had a flat tire. After Malla climbed out, the electric crossover started billowing smoke and then caught fire. Read more These Are Your Guilty Pleasure Cars The 15 Most Successful Formula 1 Cars of All Time These Cars Should Never Have Been Killed Off Elk Grove father says he grateful to be alive after Tesla catches fire near Highway 99 In a post on Reddit, Malla said that he was grateful to be alive and feared what could have happened if his family had been in the vehicle with him. Though, Business Insider reported that his communications with Tesla after the incident were frustrating, to say the least. He wrote on Reddit: “It’s been two weeks, yet not a single follow-up or check-up call from Tesla. Yes, insurance will cover the car, but I need to hear from Tesla, and I hope they will do RCA on what caused this and what they are doing to mitigate it. All I need is the answer from them and protect others to not go through the same issue.” Malla did eventually hear back from a Tesla representative, but they seemingly didn’t comprehend the severity of the damage to Malla’s vehicle. According to Malla, he was asked to take his burned-out Model Y to a service center. In his words on Reddit: “Apparently not. I’ve tried them more than 10 times but those folks at roadside assistance customer service can’t do anything. One agent I talked to had an audacity to tell me to take my fully burned Tesla to the Tesla recommended servicing center. My car was fully salvaged and a total loss. How in the world am I going to do that? Phewww” Malla’s insurance company took the Model Y and salvaged it, but he did wish that he had rented a flatbed truck to drop the destroyed car at the service center’s doorstep. It would have been difficult to criticize him for his malicious compliance. More from Jalopnik Don't Expect Used Car Prices to Collapse Anytime Soon NYPD Arrests Cyclist For Uncovering Obscured License Plate, Lets Driver Go Sign up for Jalopnik's Newsletter. For the latest news, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Click here to read the full article. View comments 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Wagner + 710 May 19, 2023 https://www.yahoo.com/autos/toyota-says-world-decades-behind-143300305.html Toyota Says The World Is 'Decades' Away From Supporting An All-EV Market 131 Adam Ismail Fri, May 19, 2023 at 9:33 AM CDT A white Toyota bZ4X EV seen in profile near a shoreline. Good morning! It’s Friday, May 19, 2023 and this is The Morning Shift, your daily roundup of the top headlines from around the automotive world, in one place. Here are the important stories you need to know. 1st Gear: Take-It-Slow Toyota Stop me if you’ve heard this one before: Toyota is a laggard with respect to electric vehicles. The auto giant’s top researcher, Gill Pratt, has come out before and defended the company’s emphasis of hybrids and plug-in EVs at the expense of battery electric cars, saying that if the goal is to reduce carbon emissions as quickly as possible across the largest number of vehicles as possible, then data suggests those half measures are more impactful than full electrification. Pratt doubled down in the lead up to this weekend’s G7 summit in Japan. From Bloomberg: Read more These Are Your Guilty Pleasure Cars The 15 Most Successful Formula 1 Cars of All Time These Cars Should Never Have Been Killed Off “Eventually, resource limitations will end, but for many years we will not have enough battery material and renewable recharging resources for a BEV-only solution,” Pratt said, referring to battery-electric vehicles. “Battery materials and renewable charging infrastructure will eventually be plentiful,” he said. “But it will take decades for battery material mines, renewable-power generation facilities, transmission lines and seasonal energy-storage facilities to scale up.” Pratt argued that pushing full electrification exclusively before both the supply chain and infrastructure are prepared to handle it could push people back toward gas-burning cars. That’s why Toyota remains committed to hybrids in the interim — the corporate line, anyway. Could it also be influenced by the reality that Toyota has no compelling EVs to offer? Sure, there’s nothing wrong with diversification. But when your only option is generally considered inferior to everyone else’s despite taking forever to come out, you can’t honestly claim your heart’s in the fight. Nobody’s forcing Toyota to go fully electric right away, but it’d probably work to the company’s best interest if it sold at least one good one. Pratt has a point, but Toyota doesn’t really have a choice now but to repeat that point over and over again until it finally delivers that first EV that convinces everyone that it’s actually invested. Toyota didn’t start developing and honing its EVs as early as it could’ve, despite being the world’s top automaker by volume over the past three years, and now it’s got plenty of catching up ahead. All it can do in the meantime is preach its gospel and lobby Congress. 2nd Gear: Hyundai And Kia’s Class Action Frenzy There are plenty of lawsuits facing Hyundai and Kia over their decision eternities ago not to outfit their cars with immobilizers, and now one of those class action suits has resulted in a $200 million settlement, NPR reported Friday morning: The settlement covers some 9 million owners of Hyundai or Kia vehicles made between 2011 and 2022 and have a traditional “insert-and-turn” steel key ignition system, lawyers for the owners said in a press release on Thursday. Compensation to owners includes up to $145 million in out-of-pocket losses that will be distributed to people who had their vehicles stolen. Affected owners can be reimbursed up to $6,125 for total loss of vehicles, and up to $3,375 for damages to the vehicle and personal property, as well as insurance-related expenses. [...] The car companies said in February that they would begin rolling out software upgrades to the 8.3 million U.S. vehicles that lack engine immobilizers — a feature that prevents a car from starting unless it receives an electronic signal from a key. Since then, pressure on the company to do more to curb the thefts has only mounted. Citing the uptick in theft, several cities including Seattle, St. Louis, Mo., Columbus, Ohio, and Baltimore have sued Kia and Hyundai. Last month, attorneys general in 17 states and the District of Columbia urged the NHTSA to issue a mandatory recall of the vehicles in question. This is far from the end of this story. If you were unlucky enough to get your Hyundai or Kia stolen, or had to give up your first-born for insurance, lawyers want to talk to you. 3rd Gear: Rich Italians Fighting John Elkann, chairman of Stellantis and CEO of Exor, the entity that owns Ferrari among many things, is currently locked in a battle with his mother Margherita over ownership of the family’s business holdings. It’s a long, long story that is set to be ruled on in a court in Turin this summer. Here’s everything you need to know to get up to speed, courtesy Reuters: The dispute has its origins in an inheritance deal known as the “Geneva pacts” that Margherita, an artist and philanthropist, signed in 2004 after the death of her father [Fiat boss Gianni Agnelli] the previous year and agreed when Fiat was on the brink of bankruptcy. Under the first pact, Margherita received property, works of art and other liquid assets from Gianni’s estate and renounced any future influence in the Dicembre (December) company, a key part of the ownership structure of Exor, the Agnelli-family holding. The pacts cemented John Elkann’s position as Gianni Agnelli’s chosen successor and effectively took his mother Margherita out of the equation. [...] The second pact covered what would happen to the estate of Margherita’s mother Marella, who died only in 2019 aged 91. Marella passed her Dicembre stake to three of her grandchildren, John, his brother Lapo and sister Ginevra, from Margherita’s first marriage to journalist Alain Elkann. Margherita wants the pacts to be rescinded to be able to give her children with second husband Serge De Pahlen, a Franco-Russian former Fiat executive, a share of their grandmother’s estate, sources close to her say. Margherita also argues that undeclared wealth belonging to her father was discovered after his death and that she is entitled to a share of this along with other family members. There’s also an element of this that hinges on whether Margherita’s mother’s legal residence was in Italy or Switzerland, which could negatively effect Elkann’s standing. So you see it’s all very complicated, and excellent fodder for a Peacock original. Look for an update on the outcome in the coming weeks. 4th Gear: Hitachi’s Been Slacking Hitachi Astemo, a joint venture between Hitachi and Honda that produces automotive and railway components, reported Friday that it’s been botching testing of its own products going back as far as the 1980s. Wow! From Reuters: Hitachi Astemo ... worked with customers to redo tests on nearly two dozen affected products following an investigation, Chief Executive Brice Koch told reporters. “We have now taken all the relevant measures to improve, to increase the robustness of our system and our company,” Koch said, saying he did not expect any impact on growth or costs. [...] The company, a joint venture between Hitachi Ltd and Honda Motor Co Ltd, found that employees had wrongly handled test and other procedures at 11 domestic and four overseas plants, in China, Mexico, Thailand and the United States. The misconduct affected 22 products for 69 customers, including rear shock absorbers and brake systems for cars, railcar dampers and connecting rods, as well as other components, the company said. About three-fourths of the customers were Japanese and the rest from overseas, Koch said. “The major root causes of the misconduct were basically lack of compliance understanding (and) resources,” Koch said, adding that employees had in some cases prioritised costs and delivery times over quality and compliance. I’d say so! Forty years of carelessness is almost impressive. I’ve heard of twenty years, but how do you both 1) continue getting business over that span and 2) face your customers ever again after totally spacing on testing of safety-critical parts for four whole decades? Eh — the CEO says he doesn’t expect it to have any impact on growth, so it must not be a big deal. 5th Gear: JLR’s Battery Plant Is (Maybe) Coming Home Tata is looking to the United Kingdom rather than Spain, as previously reported, for its next battery plant. That’s probably a good idea, as there’s a real good marketing story somewhere in there for Jaguar and Land Rover. From Bloomberg, by way of Automotive News Europe: Tata, a conglomerate involved in industries from cars to salt, is currently favoring a factory in England after the U.K. government offered a support package, according to people familiar with the matter. No final decision has been made, and Tata could still decide on another location, the people said. A decision in favor of the U.K. by Tata would secure the future of JLR’s plants in the country and mark a major coup for the government, as Spanish authorities were battling to win the investment. The plant — to be based in Somerset, England — would make batteries for Jaguar Land Rover’s planned range of full-electric models that are due from 2024. The U.K. government has been desperate to score some auto manufacturing wins, so this must come as welcome news to locals. The latest reinvention of Jaguar has plenty riding on this. Reverse: The Champion From Gold Coast On this day in 2014 — nine years ago — we lost Australian motor-racing legend Jack Brabham. Sir Jack Brabham | Biography & Facts Neutral: Two Cents On Toyota Do you think Toyota’s being pragmatic, or coming up with excuses? Maybe a little of both? It’s always a little of both, isn’t it? More from Jalopnik Don't Expect Used Car Prices to Collapse Anytime Soon NYPD Arrests Cyclist For Uncovering Obscured License Plate, Lets Driver Go Sign up for Jalopnik's Newsletter. For the latest news, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. Click here to read the full article. View comments Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 May 20, 2023 13 hours ago, NickW said: The data I have seen from Vestas, Siemens, Enercon etc state shut down occurs at wind speeds of around 55mph. Curtailment measures kick in before that. Yea, and they are conveniently embellishing/lying as what that number actually represents is gust rating from thunderstorm fronts allowing you the end customer to continue operation without having to reset everything as your only truly worried about the greatest gust fronts of a supercell thunderstorm which... hit 55mph and only in extreme rarities go faster than this but said gust fronts are brief requiring rotor to speed up significantly to approach tower load limits and this takes time. This is why that number is used and why any storm with sustained 50km/h/30+mph you will see turbines standing still turned sideways to the wind. Such sustained winds are very rare unless your name is Argentina/Chile or some random top of mountain or anywhere else down in the southern Arctic Ocean near Antarctica who often sees sustained outflow speeds due to Katabatic winds off the giant glaciers of +40m/s Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 May 20, 2023 9 hours ago, Ron Wagner said: LEDs ar great but my electric company changed my meter twice after I installed them. The installer wouldn't say why. I never noticed a decrease in my electric bill though! Guess it's related to the latest technique deployed. My household electric bill used to be ~ $10+. No air con. No LED. A change to modern digital meter from the old, the bill skyrocketed many folds to ~ $50. It might be indirect charge on the digital meters used nation wide (imagine the gov let the public shoulder the average costs used by the whole country every month due to their own initiative out of nothing better to do-ness to change meters so that their cronies can make profit)... 'n' Then, there was forecasted bill.... They never needed to check your usages. With a kind of software, they predicted your this month usages from last month usages and printed your bill before reaching your home... The bill was always higher.... And then, they restored manual key in digital reading of usages. Bill drops by > 50% to $25 bucks.... Your area might be the same... It might be a technology used somewhere, copied and modified by the deemed more intelligent locals to be manfree. But unfortunately not fully baked..... Or some sort ....'n' 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW May 20, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said: Yea, and they are conveniently embellishing/lying as what that number actually represents is gust rating from thunderstorm fronts allowing you the end customer to continue operation without having to reset everything as your only truly worried about the greatest gust fronts of a supercell thunderstorm which... hit 55mph and only in extreme rarities go faster than this but said gust fronts are brief requiring rotor to speed up significantly to approach tower load limits and this takes time. This is why that number is used and why any storm with sustained 50km/h/30+mph you will see turbines standing still turned sideways to the wind. Such sustained winds are very rare unless your name is Argentina/Chile or some random top of mountain or anywhere else down in the southern Arctic Ocean near Antarctica who often sees sustained outflow speeds due to Katabatic winds off the giant glaciers of +40m/s Not the ones where I live. I was out in a force 7 (thats what my windex at 35 ft was measuring) (32-34 mph and the turbines were full face into the wind and whizzing round. The wind speed at 200ft would have been much higher (not sure what the hub height is on those 3.6MW turbines) These are the Gunfleet (see piccy from my yacht below) and Thames Array offshore windfarms plus the adjacent onshore ones on the Dengie peninsula. Gunfleet Sands Offshore Wind Farm - Wikipedia London Array - Wikipedia Edited May 20, 2023 by NickW 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 21, 2023 On 5/19/2023 at 1:43 PM, notsonice said: like coal demand, is registering new all-time highs and will continue to grow.???? yet you never post anything to back up your bs Coal demand is falling across the board...China is in a badddddd Recession try this one on for size...your beloved saviors China and India are not bailing you out... Metallurgical coal outlook dims even as demand dwindles in India, China The outlook for prime hard metallurgical coal is dim, even as demand dwindles in key end user markets China and India May 17, 2023 By Paul Lim, Olivia Zhang CoalSteel raw materialsSteelChina India monsoon season approaching In India, market sources do not expect any strong uptick in demand ahead of the monsoon season starting in the June-July period. “The monsoon season is coming, and there shouldn’t be any strong demand then,” a trader source in India told Fastmarkets this week. The Southwest Monsoon covered India on July 2 last year, with the rains sweeping in from the south from May 22 onward, before retreating southward from September 20 until October 15, data from the India Meteorological Department showed. The strong steel performance currently being seen in India is also not consistent across sectors, with government infrastructure spending and some tiers of consumer spending propping up steel demand. “Some segments of lower-tier consumption are still not strong, so only government infrastructure and some parts of top-tier consumer spending are present and supporting demand,” a trading analyst in Singapore told Fastmarkets. The last round of restocking in late April/early May has also ceased, and many spot buyers have largely fulfilled their requirements, a second trader source in India said. Traders are also bearish and are already looking to offer down to the $230-235 per tonne FOB Australia levels ... “Traders are also bearish and are already looking to offer down to the $230-235 per tonne FOB Australia levels,” a trader source in Singapore told Fastmarkets on Friday, May 12. But on Tuesday, prices looked to have weakened further, with an Australian PLV cargo heard traded by market sources at $220 per tonne FOB, with PLV offers at $237 per tonne CFR India. This could not be confirmed by any seller. “That’s a little bit low but it’s possible,” a trader source in the UK told Fastmarkets. Fastmarkets’ index for premium hard coking coal, fob DBCT ended at $233.69 per tonne on Monday, down $9.02 per tonne day on day. The Fastmarkets index for hard coking coal, fob DBCT ended at $209.25 per tonne on Monday, down $9.33 per tonne day on day. Sources in the coke markets also do not expect a lot of support from steel mill end users. Offers for 65% CSR coke from Australia were heard at $370 per tonne CFR India. “Demand for coke is also generally weak,” a seller source in Southeast Asia said, adding that this wasn’t unexpected given that restocking demand from India had weakened. A seller source close to a global mining and metals company was similarly bearish. “We can only hope for a better Q3, as even supply issues in Australia this year have not supported prices,” they said. China heading for more coke price cuts China is headed for its 8th round of coke price cuts, sources said, even as steelmakers continued to face thin – even negative – steelmaking margins. “The 8th round of coke price cuts was already proposed by mills last Friday and a few cokeries have already accepted it. [There is] no doubt this round of cuts will fully land,” a coal trader source said on Monday. “At present, mills’ margins are less than 100 yuan [$14] per tonne, whereas coke producers still enjoy 150-200 yuan per tonne. Hence, steel mills certainly want to cut coke prices further,” they said. China’s coke prices have already been cut by 600-700 yuan ($86-$101) per tonne in total since the beginning of April in the last seven rounds of negotiation. “I’ve been expecting this since last year, when Covid-19 restrictions lifted,” a coke seller source in Southeast Asia told Fastmarkets. “This is because larger inflows of Russian and Mongolian coals have displaced coal imports, and created excess coke,” they said. Over January-March, Mongolia coking coal imports from China totaled 11.2 million tonnes, up by over four times year on year. Russia coking coal imports were 7.1 million tonnes in the first quarter, up by 114% year on year, customs statistics showed. A second Chinese coal trader source who mainly sells Russian coking coal told Fastmarkets Russian coking coal has stockpiled at major Chinese ports due to mills’ poor demand. “I’ve never seen such slow buying from steel mills. Previously a 5,000-tonne order could be a small order, so when a mill approached me to buy only 2,000 tonnes, I rejected it. But I’ve realized that 2,000 tonnes is considered a big order, because many mills only want to buy 200-1,000 tonnes at a time,” they told Fastmarkets. Chinese mills intend to keep coking coal inventories at very low level – only enough for around one week of production – to better control production costs as they believe domestic coking coal and coke are on a downward trajectory. This has naturally resulted in mills’ having low interest in imported coking coal with longer delivery time such as Australian and US coking coal, sources noted. “If the prices are on an upward trend, mills will be willing to be Australian coking coal at prices equal to domestic price levels or even slightly above,” the first coal trader source stated on Monday. The same source also said that “with the current market situation, mills will not be interested if Australian coking coal prices are not $10-20 dollars lower than domestic levels.” Bottom line, coal and oil are reaching all-time high demand. As well they should, with increasing world population we need to continue to produce fossil fuel cars. The age of the family car is still in force. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Bottom line, coal and oil are reaching all-time high demand. As well they should, with increasing world population we need to continue to produce fossil fuel cars. The age of the family car is still in force. and yet you post no numbers... Coal demand is waining...... China is in a recession...their steel output is decreasing right now...met coal demand is decreasing...... and when steel output is declining ....industrial production is declining..........and it follows electricity demand in Chinas industrial sectors is not increasing steel output is the best indicator on where an emerging country is heading China is reliant on infrastructure projects to keep its GDP growing....however China is in a horrible real estate recession thus no need for massive infrastructure projects (this is why steel demand in shrinking in China) Check out the price of steel in China in the last year .......... China steel association urges steelmakers to cut output after price drops The government-backed China Iron and Steel Association (CISA) has urged domestic steelmakers to cut production following rapid price drops Iron ore: ANZ warns prices face an imminent pullback from falling Chinese steel output The bank warns a slowdown in China's steel production could drag the price of the commodity below the key $US100 a tonne level. Iron Ore Prices Fall Under $100 in Face of China Property Pain After a bullish start to 2023, iron ore is struggling with the reality that China's property sector — the steelmaking material's largest.. In the US coal demand this year is dropping by over 60 million tonnes...and your beloved India coal consumption is estimated to grow by 20 million tonnes....... You keep praying for a miracle in China....however China has 65 million empty homes/apartments right now and their population is now on a slow decline..... any increase in electricity demand in China is now being fully filled by renewables....And the pace of Chinas renewable buildout is increasing... Good luck with your BS babble in coal demand increasing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 22, 2023 (edited) On 5/21/2023 at 3:37 AM, notsonice said: and yet you post no numbers... Coal demand is waining...... China is in a recession...their steel output is decreasing right now...met coal demand is decreasing...... and when steel output is declining ....industrial production is declining..........and it follows electricity demand in Chinas industrial sectors is not increasing steel output is the best indicator on where an emerging country is heading China is reliant on infrastructure projects to keep its GDP growing....however China is in a horrible real estate recession thus no need for massive infrastructure projects (this is why steel demand in shrinking in China) Check out the price of steel in China in the last year .......... China steel association urges steelmakers to cut output after price drops The government-backed China Iron and Steel Association (CISA) has urged domestic steelmakers to cut production following rapid price drops Iron ore: ANZ warns prices face an imminent pullback from falling Chinese steel output The bank warns a slowdown in China's steel production could drag the price of the commodity below the key $US100 a tonne level. Iron Ore Prices Fall Under $100 in Face of China Property Pain After a bullish start to 2023, iron ore is struggling with the reality that China's property sector — the steelmaking material's largest.. In the US coal demand this year is dropping by over 60 million tonnes...and your beloved India coal consumption is estimated to grow by 20 million tonnes....... You keep praying for a miracle in China....however China has 65 million empty homes/apartments right now and their population is now on a slow decline..... any increase in electricity demand in China is now being fully filled by renewables....And the pace of Chinas renewable buildout is increasing... Good luck with your BS babble in coal demand increasing You refuse to engage the numbers, so why should anyone post numbers for you? Oil demand, like coal demand, is registering new all-time highs and will continue to grow. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Oil-Price-Predictions-Have-Become-Oddly-Polarized.html "According to the International Energy Agency, global oil consumption remains on track to rise by 2M bbl/day this year to an all-time high 101.9M bbl/day. Inventories are gradually tightening and should deplete further as OPEC+ implements new production cuts. Crude oil inventories have fallen below the five-year average for the first time this year. Last week, implied gasoline demand rose by 992 thousand barrels per day (kb/d) w/w to a 15-month high of 9.511mb/d." Edited May 22, 2023 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 22, 2023 35 minutes ago, Ecocharger said: You refuse to engage the numbers, so why should anyone post numbers for you? Oil demand, like coal demand, is registering new all-time highs and will continue to grow. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Oil-Price-Predictions-Have-Become-Oddly-Polarized.html "According to the International Energy Agency, global oil consumption remains on track to rise by 2M bbl/day this year to an all-time high 101.9M bbl/day. Inventories are gradually tightening and should deplete further as OPEC+ implements new production cuts. Crude oil inventories have fallen below the five-year average for the first time this year. Last week, implied gasoline demand rose by 992 thousand barrels per day (kb/d) w/w to a 15-month high of 9.511mb/d." Supply is being cut ....... Only a troll working for OPEC would be backing the IEA........ Does the IEA pay any attention to what is happening in the real world China is in a bad recession........... Electricity demand takes a bad hit when rebar production takes a hit rebar production drops so does an economy......try filling up your tank when you have no work Coal demand in China .........dropping fast real numbers out of China Rebar Output Fell Rapidly as Steel Mills Intended to Cut Production May 3, 2023 23:59CST Source:SMM Given the significant decline in rebar prices and the rising raw material inventory, the maintenance of steel mills in north, south-west and north-west China extended in light of the losses. SHANGHAI, May 4 (SMM) - Given the significant decline in rebar prices and the rising raw material inventory, the maintenance of steel mills in north, south-west and north-west China extended in light of the losses. EAF-based steel mills reduced the output significantly amid growing losses as the prices of finished steel fell far more than steel scrap. With more blast furnaces carrying out maintenance, the output cut is expected to increase 345,000 mt to 2,469,300 mt in May. The losses of EAF-based steel mills has not been reversed, which may further reduce the production of rebar. In terms of HRC, although the maintenance of some steel mills in north and east China have ended, the losses still weighed on the output. Therefore, the overall HRC output increased slightly last week. According to SMM research, the HRC output post the Labour Day holiday will fluctuate narrowly as the impact of new maintenance is limited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 22, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, notsonice said: Supply is being cut ....... Only a troll working for OPEC would be backing the IEA........ Does the IEA pay any attention to what is happening in the real world China is in a bad recession........... Electricity demand takes a bad hit when rebar production takes a hit rebar production drops so does an economy......try filling up your tank when you have no work Coal demand in China .........dropping fast real numbers out of China Rebar Output Fell Rapidly as Steel Mills Intended to Cut Production May 3, 2023 23:59CST Source:SMM Given the significant decline in rebar prices and the rising raw material inventory, the maintenance of steel mills in north, south-west and north-west China extended in light of the losses. SHANGHAI, May 4 (SMM) - Given the significant decline in rebar prices and the rising raw material inventory, the maintenance of steel mills in north, south-west and north-west China extended in light of the losses. EAF-based steel mills reduced the output significantly amid growing losses as the prices of finished steel fell far more than steel scrap. With more blast furnaces carrying out maintenance, the output cut is expected to increase 345,000 mt to 2,469,300 mt in May. The losses of EAF-based steel mills has not been reversed, which may further reduce the production of rebar. In terms of HRC, although the maintenance of some steel mills in north and east China have ended, the losses still weighed on the output. Therefore, the overall HRC output increased slightly last week. According to SMM research, the HRC output post the Labour Day holiday will fluctuate narrowly as the impact of new maintenance is limited. Your daft meanderings are pathetic to behold. The EIA has also called for a 34% increase of oil production through 2050. Live with it. The EIA, a branch of the Biden & Co. group, has predicted a 34% increase in oil demand through 2050. That tells you that the average American car owner will not be willing to sacrifice the family auto to satisfy a wild and poorly supported theory about climate change. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Demand-In-Transport-Sector-May-Drop-By-Up-To-50-By-2050.html Edited May 22, 2023 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 22, 2023 Brent crude at $75 ......what happened to the buyers no rising demand IEA forecasts are nothing buy pipe dreams Reuters Oil dips as weaker China, US economic data offset IEA demand forecast Oil futures dipped on Tuesday as weaker-than-expected economic data in China and the United States offset a forecast of higher global demand... . 5 days ago Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 22, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, notsonice said: Brent crude at $75 ......what happened to the buyers no rising demand IEA forecasts are nothing buy pipe dreams Reuters Oil dips as weaker China, US economic data offset IEA demand forecast Oil futures dipped on Tuesday as weaker-than-expected economic data in China and the United States offset a forecast of higher global demand... . 5 days ago Again, you are taking your eyes off the forecast. And your knowledge of the alphabet is cockeyed. The EIA, a branch of the Biden & Co. group, has predicted a 34% increase in oil demand through 2050. That tells you that the average American car owner will not be willing to sacrifice the family auto to satisfy a wild and poorly supported theory about climate change. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Demand-In-Transport-Sector-May-Drop-By-Up-To-50-By-2050.html Edited May 22, 2023 by Ecocharger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 22, 2023 China Recession .......... Never good for Fossil Fuels Sliding Iron Ore Prices Show China’s Recovery is Still Dragging Jennifer Kary | Posted on May 22, 2023 The iron ore slump shows that the Chinese economy continues to struggle. Moreover, if things on the steel front do not improve quickly, demand will be low for the rest of the year. Indeed, the decline in iron ore prices, which recently hit a five-month low, has many analysts worried about the robustness of China’s economic rebound. According to data released recently by the China Iron and Steel Association (CISA), steel inventories at major Chinese steel mills fell to 18.1 metric tons (MT) in late April. This represents a decline of 2.3% compared to mid-April. Meanwhile, an analyst report released by ING said China’s steel consumption had fallen short of expectations during a peak construction season. This sent a wave of concern throughout the industry. Typically, March and April are the most productive months for China’s steel market. However, in addition to the drop in steel inventories, crude steel production at major mills also declined by 3.6% during the same period, reaching 2.21 MT per day in late April. China Baowu Steel, the country’s top steel producer, dropped its factory-gate prices alongside at least two other mills. Meanwhile, local authorities officially directed mills in the Fengnan district of Tangshan City to curb crude steel output. These represent China’s first batch of steel mills to observe another year-on-year administrative reduction in output after repeated cuts in 2021 and 2022. According to a World Steel Association report, China’s steel production dropped 2% last year to 1.0 billion tons. Much of it was due to government-mandated production cuts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ecocharger + 1,474 DL May 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, notsonice said: China Recession .......... Never good for Fossil Fuels Sliding Iron Ore Prices Show China’s Recovery is Still Dragging Jennifer Kary | Posted on May 22, 2023 The iron ore slump shows that the Chinese economy continues to struggle. Moreover, if things on the steel front do not improve quickly, demand will be low for the rest of the year. Indeed, the decline in iron ore prices, which recently hit a five-month low, has many analysts worried about the robustness of China’s economic rebound. According to data released recently by the China Iron and Steel Association (CISA), steel inventories at major Chinese steel mills fell to 18.1 metric tons (MT) in late April. This represents a decline of 2.3% compared to mid-April. Meanwhile, an analyst report released by ING said China’s steel consumption had fallen short of expectations during a peak construction season. This sent a wave of concern throughout the industry. Typically, March and April are the most productive months for China’s steel market. However, in addition to the drop in steel inventories, crude steel production at major mills also declined by 3.6% during the same period, reaching 2.21 MT per day in late April. China Baowu Steel, the country’s top steel producer, dropped its factory-gate prices alongside at least two other mills. Meanwhile, local authorities officially directed mills in the Fengnan district of Tangshan City to curb crude steel output. These represent China’s first batch of steel mills to observe another year-on-year administrative reduction in output after repeated cuts in 2021 and 2022. According to a World Steel Association report, China’s steel production dropped 2% last year to 1.0 billion tons. Much of it was due to government-mandated production cuts. Recessions are short-term, fossil fuel vehicles last forever. 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE May 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Your daft meanderings are pathetic to behold. The EIA has also called for a 34% increase of oil production through 2050. Live with it. The EIA, a branch of the Biden & Co. group, has predicted a 34% increase in oil demand through 2050. That tells you that the average American car owner will not be willing to sacrifice the family auto to satisfy a wild and poorly supported theory about climate change. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Oil-Demand-In-Transport-Sector-May-Drop-By-Up-To-50-By-2050.html The title of your link is "Oil demand in transport sector may drop..." First paragraph: "With the global energy transition in full swing, few clean energy sectors, if any, are expanding faster than the electric car market. A decade ago, a grand total of 130,000 EVs were sold globally; fast forward to the present, and nearly a similar number are sold in just a week." "That includes Stanford University economist Tony Seba who has declared that EVs will obliterate the global oil industry by 2030 while Bloomberg News’ Akshat Rathi is on record claiming that ‘every F-150 Lightning destroys 50+ barrels of oil demand forever.’ The F-150 Lightning is Ford Motors’ (NYSE:F) electric equivalent of the marquee Ford-150 truck. Meanwhile, back in 2016, Bloomberg itself predicted EVs will trigger a global oil crisis." You really have to dig to find any bullish news on oil in that article. Even if you get a 34% increase in over 25 years is that a good investment? Tesla is up 74.7% in the last year alone. Last 5 years it is up 916%. Lastly, Nobody is saying sacrifice the family auto. Edited May 22, 2023 by TailingsPond Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TailingsPond + 1,008 GE May 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Ecocharger said: Recessions are short-term, fossil fuel vehicles last forever. You still drive the first car you bought? There is plenty of evidence EVs will last longer than ICE cars due to fewer moving parts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
notsonice + 1,255 DM May 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Ecocharger said: Recessions are short-term, fossil fuel vehicles last forever. fossil fuel vehicles last forever???????? more like 150,000 miles or an average of 11.9 years 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 470 May 23, 2023 10 hours ago, TailingsPond said: You still drive the first car you bought? There is plenty of evidence EVs will last longer than ICE cars due to fewer moving parts. This is probably highly speculative... A regularly used phone battery could only last one to three years. Unless, you drive sparingly, the lifespan of battery is a concern, particularly when raw material required are limited or in shortage. 5 to 10 years would be the average, no? Mechanical cars are probably being investigated. Fly-wheel springy coil, swing mode, old hand crank etc... 'o' '-' No rush to end one and promote domination of another. They can coexist. 🙂 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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