GREEN NEW DEAL = BLIZZARD OF LIES

[TailingsPond + 502]

Earth hit an unofficial record high temperature this week – and stayed there (msn.com)

[notsonice + 1,099]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

OECD and Belgium only, influenced by government intervention into the marketplace. World numbers are much different.

The source for this blurb is....?

only?.....ha ha ha

 

you need more bad news in the coal camp????/

US down 30 percent on coal this year

China.....in a horrible recession....stockpiles are building everyday....world price of coal.......falling off a cliff...consumption of coal in China.......being decimated by new renewables coming on stream

enjoy Coal is on its way out...........

 

source...ha ha ha ...do you ever pay attention....click on the link more articles.......

[notsonice + 1,099]

1 hour ago, Ecocharger said:

You are not even close to reality. Read,

"Outdoor "fresh" air ventilation is important because it can dilute contaminants that are produced in the indoor environment, such as odors released from people and contaminants released from the building, equipment, furnishings, and people's activities. Adequate ventilation can limit the build up of these contaminants. It is these other contaminants and not usually CO₂ that may lead to indoor air quality problems, such as discomfort, odors "stuffiness" and possibly health symptoms."

why would you need to talk about dilution if you think more CO2 is good for everyone....

More CO2 is never good for humans........I have never heard of any medical problem solved by putting the patient in a high CO2 environment....Oxygen yes CO2 no ....

but if you like more CO2 in your life .....just crawl under your covers at night for a good Dutch Oven effect.......tell us how much more CO2 you can tolerate.........

 

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

3 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

The CO2 is coming from more than exhalation if the levels gets that high.  Something is likely burning in "building" or in the "equipment" - think furnace or a cutting torch.

"Dilution is the solution to pollution" only works for a while.  When the outdoor fresh air isn't fresh anymore what are you going to do then?  Install air purifiers in every room like in Hong Kong? Opening the window with poor outdoor air quality actually degrades indoor air quality.  They tell people with health problems to close windows and run AC when the air quality index gets too poor. 

 

Read,

"Outdoor "fresh" air ventilation is important because it can dilute contaminants that are produced in the indoor environment, such as odors released from people and contaminants released from the building, equipment, furnishings, and people's activities. Adequate ventilation can limit the build up of these contaminants. It is these other contaminants and not usually CO₂ that may lead to indoor air quality problems, such as discomfort, odors "stuffiness" and possibly health symptoms."

 

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

only?.....ha ha ha

 

you need more bad news in the coal camp????/

US down 30 percent on coal this year

China.....in a horrible recession....stockpiles are building everyday....world price of coal.......falling off a cliff...consumption of coal in China.......being decimated by new renewables coming on stream

enjoy Coal is on its way out...........

 

source...ha ha ha ...do you ever pay attention....click on the link more articles.......

Coal is King, all-time highs.

Here is the real problem today, 

"Dr. John Constable, Net Zero Watch’s Energy Director, said:

“It would be both absurd and counterproductive for Government to bail out the wind industry in spite of the evident failure to reduce costs. A refusal to learn from mistakes will be disastrous.”

In a press release, the organisation argued the Government should “reject the self-serving demands” because the U.K. economy should not be expected to continue to subsidise a sector “that is still uneconomic after nearly 20 years of above-market prices and guaranteed market share”.

“The wind experiment has failed and must be wound down,” it adds.

The Government should also be mindful that U.K. households and businesses are already experiencing extreme pressures on budgets, and a further burden on the energy bill should not be tolerated, it says.

This is particularly the case as the wind industry’s current cost difficulties are “neither unforeseen nor unpredicted but have been obvious to careful observers for over a decade”."

Edited July 7, 2023 by Ecocharger

[TailingsPond + 502]

58 minutes ago, Ecocharger said:

Read,

"Outdoor "fresh" air ventilation is important because it can dilute contaminants that are produced in the indoor environment, such as odors released from people and contaminants released from the building, equipment, furnishings, and people's activities. Adequate ventilation can limit the build up of these contaminants. It is these other contaminants and not usually CO₂ that may lead to indoor air quality problems, such as discomfort, odors "stuffiness" and possibly health symptoms."

 

Read,

"Outdoor fresh" air does not exist due to excessive ICE use in many areas.

You can't dilute polluted air with polluted air.  I'm giving you a free pass on CO2, even though I shouldn't; try to explain away the rest of the toxins.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,550]

6 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Earth hit an unofficial record high temperature this week – and stayed there (msn.com)

Lmao unofficial...at least fake news has seen its own demise

                 "UNOFFICIAL"

             

[TailingsPond + 502]

2 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Lmao unofficial...at least fake news has seen its own demise

                 "UNOFFICIAL"

             

"What does playing a tiny violin mean?"

"The expression 'world's smallest violin' has been around since long before TikTok. The saying is used to respond to people who are believed to be exaggerating their situation to gain sympathy from the listener."

 

Did I exaggerate my situation to gain sympathy?  You can't even understand your own stupid posts.

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by TailingsPond

[notsonice + 1,099]

6 hours ago, Ecocharger said:

Coal is King, all-time highs.

Here is the real problem today, 

"Dr. John Constable, Net Zero Watch’s Energy Director, said:

“It would be both absurd and counterproductive for Government to bail out the wind industry in spite of the evident failure to reduce costs. A refusal to learn from mistakes will be disastrous.”

In a press release, the organisation argued the Government should “reject the self-serving demands” because the U.K. economy should not be expected to continue to subsidise a sector “that is still uneconomic after nearly 20 years of above-market prices and guaranteed market share”.

“The wind experiment has failed and must be wound down,” it adds.

The Government should also be mindful that U.K. households and businesses are already experiencing extreme pressures on budgets, and a further burden on the energy bill should not be tolerated, it says.

This is particularly the case as the wind industry’s current cost difficulties are “neither unforeseen nor unpredicted but have been obvious to careful observers for over a decade”."

Coal is King, all-time highs.???????   the high still is 2014......

 

2022 a dead cat bounce that did not beat 2014 the top of coal consumption.....

but you know this otherwise you would post some real data/facts....

got any recent press releases touting 2022 coal consumption beating 2014????

even the IEA is silent now.....

Coal in China....renewables are booming ....China is in a bad manufactring recession.....Coal consumption is down down down...China recession led by housing and manufacturing will last years...Just too many ghose cities  60 million empty finished apartments ....how many abondoned half done buildings.....??????

maybe you can hope India picks up??? oh wait India has stopped all new coal power plants to let renewables take over....

Edited July 8, 2023 by notsonice

[notsonice + 1,099]

pesky new solar panels and wind farms..............

Published On Jul 7, 2023 at 12:31 PM IST

China miners seek coal import curbs to ease glut
 

Read more at:
https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/coal/china-miners-seek-coal-import-curbs-to-ease-glut/101565852

 

SINGAPORE: China's coal inventories are so bloated and coal prices so depressed  ..

OUTPUT CUTS

Average operation rates at 442 major mines in provincial coal hubs Shanxi, Shaanxi and Inner Mongolia dropped to 82 per cent in June from 84 ..
 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by notsonice

[specinho + 441]

On 7/7/2023 at 2:02 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

ok

 

On 7/7/2023 at 12:18 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

As many of us have done over and over for you.

The rise in CO2 is perfectly correlated with the rise in temperature and in lab tests we have proven that it is a greenhouse gas. But of course you will yet again say that isn't proof. Well it is proof because nothing else is correlated. 

 

On 7/7/2023 at 12:30 PM, turbguy said:

 

Try this one??

 

1. The first graph might have shown, global warming happened ~15000 years ago?

* Before that was probably ice age period where temperature was declining. 

The drastic increment line lasted till ~ 10000 years ago.

Temperature was relatively static until the point marked closed to 125 years ago? 

2. The second graph might have used not so comparable parameters.

From our aim: " correlation between global warming and CO2 level and emission", the graph should have:

a) temperature recorded

b) atmospheric co2 level recorded or emission

c) year involved

 

3. The third graph shows co2 level fluctuated between 180 to 300 ppm before 1950? That  represents 0.0003%? 

Current co2 level is 0.0004%?

 

Deduction:

- global warming might have happened way before human knew how to use fire to cook? Or was it way before human existed? 

[specinho + 441]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:41 AM, NWMan said:

Which chart - the one from NASA that is displayed around the world and all global warming predictions are based on.  My little chart was to show that the NASA chart is graphically inappropriate and it is based on scientists being able to accurately calculate the average temperature of the world in 1880.   

I agree there are lots of other issues with the NASA chart.   

People see the chart (it looks bad), then apparently "all scientists agree with it" therefore we are doomed!

Still have not got the name of any species that will be extinct.  Nor any information concerning the accuracy of ice core temperature analysis.  You would think the global warming believers would know the answers to these questions rather than telling people to google it. 

Thanks for your reply and information  

Pardon me, i do not know which one is which..... 😋

Your third statement is unfortunately a result of highly specialized modern society......

While professionals, academicians, authorities of the world are emphasizing the importance of restricting temperature change below 1.5'C, and teaching everyone else so for decades,  temperature has increased way beyond 10'C in some places ..... And gone down way beyond 10'C in some places.

 

Frontliners who are exposed to weather daily, whose comments are rudely denied/ ignored by professionals in some scholar groups, deeming them lowly educated, ignorant and poor compared to themselves, are now probably better qualified  professional warning signal, is it not? 😯 +~+

 

Scale in a chart matters. When zoomed in, variation like 0.001 becomes very significant. Shall zoomed out...... 🙁

It is probably inappropriate for us to ignore changes experienced over the decades post industrial revolution.

It is common for us to grasp the head of a hair and describe the condition according to what everyone is saying in A social group; or the tail and describe its microscopic appearance if we are in B group. 

In order to get the whole picture, we need an independent mind and much free time to let things sink in and reappear in clearer forms. 99% of professionals, academicians, authorities, general modern working adults and students, would not have the luxury of. 

Posted a discussion by a cult kid about hamster on a running mill... Briefly: 

Often, we believe our daily professional routine is very busy and very  meaningful. Whatever we do, might have been so standardized that it is rarely outside of keeping fit or filling in time on a hamster mill. In addition, eating lots ....( if you have seen video how a small hamster could arrange 10 small carrots into its mouth and carry them home for snack.......).

 

When you are no longer a mill runner but looking at what others are doing, you would

a) accept it as their habit

b) bemused 😳🤭

c) asking question like "what are they doing...?" 😯 😣

 

[NWMan + 89]

12 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Earth hit an unofficial record high temperature this week – and stayed there (msn.com)

 

55 minutes ago, specinho said:

Try this one??

How do they calculate co2 ppm 350,000 years ago?

 

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

9 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

Read,

"Outdoor fresh" air does not exist due to excessive ICE use in many areas.

You can't dilute polluted air with polluted air.  I'm giving you a free pass on CO2, even though I shouldn't; try to explain away the rest of the toxins.

Here they are,

"...contaminants that are produced in the indoor environment, such as odors released from people and contaminants released from the building, equipment, furnishings, and people's activities. "

[Ecocharger + 1,384]

3 hours ago, notsonice said:

Coal is King, all-time highs.???????   the high still is 2014......

 

2022 a dead cat bounce that did not beat 2014 the top of coal consumption.....

but you know this otherwise you would post some real data/facts....

got any recent press releases touting 2022 coal consumption beating 2014????

even the IEA is silent now.....

Coal in China....renewables are booming ....China is in a bad manufactring recession.....Coal consumption is down down down...China recession led by housing and manufacturing will last years...Just too many ghose cities  60 million empty finished apartments ....how many abondoned half done buildings.....??????

maybe you can hope India picks up??? oh wait India has stopped all new coal power plants to let renewables take over....

Here is the real problem today, 

"Dr. John Constable, Net Zero Watch’s Energy Director, said:

“It would be both absurd and counterproductive for Government to bail out the wind industry in spite of the evident failure to reduce costs. A refusal to learn from mistakes will be disastrous.”

In a press release, the organisation argued the Government should “reject the self-serving demands” because the U.K. economy should not be expected to continue to subsidise a sector “that is still uneconomic after nearly 20 years of above-market prices and guaranteed market share”.

“The wind experiment has failed and must be wound down,” it adds.

The Government should also be mindful that U.K. households and businesses are already experiencing extreme pressures on budgets, and a further burden on the energy bill should not be tolerated, it says.

This is particularly the case as the wind industry’s current cost difficulties are “neither unforeseen nor unpredicted but have been obvious to careful observers for over a decade”."

[notsonice + 1,099]

On 7/8/2023 at 1:50 AM, Ecocharger said:

Here is the real problem today, 

"Dr. John Constable, Net Zero Watch’s Energy Director, said:

“It would be both absurd and counterproductive for Government to bail out the wind industry in spite of the evident failure to reduce costs. A refusal to learn from mistakes will be disastrous.”

In a press release, the organisation argued the Government should “reject the self-serving demands” because the U.K. economy should not be expected to continue to subsidise a sector “that is still uneconomic after nearly 20 years of above-market prices and guaranteed market share”.

“The wind experiment has failed and must be wound down,” it adds.

The Government should also be mindful that U.K. households and businesses are already experiencing extreme pressures on budgets, and a further burden on the energy bill should not be tolerated, it says.

This is particularly the case as the wind industry’s current cost difficulties are “neither unforeseen nor unpredicted but have been obvious to careful observers for over a decade”."

Here is the real problem today, ?????

have you abandoned your argument that coal is King and  increasing and at new highs????

Coal is King????

reality Solar and Wind are taking Coal down.............

Edited July 9, 2023 by notsonice

[turbguy + 1,427]

4 hours ago, NWMan said:

 

How do they calculate co2 ppm 350,000 years ago?

 

Air samples from ice cores extracted  in Antarctica.

[NWMan + 89]

thank.  i will look into it.

 

[NWMan + 89]

The only logical explanation is that we are running out of oil and governments are using the possibility of climate change as a motivational tool to force us to look and pay for alternative energy sources over the next 50 to 100 years.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,550]

5 hours ago, NWMan said:

The only logical explanation is that we are running out of oil and governments are using the possibility of climate change as a motivational tool to force us to look and pay for alternative energy sources over the next 50 to 100 years.

The world is not even close to being depleted of oil reserves. This green debacle is truly a world order power struggle. What country has virtually no raw fossil fuels, the answer is the core issue.

 

https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/ds69DD

Oil shale resources of the Eocene Green River Formation, Greater Green River Basin, Wyoming, Colorado, and Utah

The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) recently completed a comprehensive assessment of in-place oil in oil shales in the Eocene Green River in the Greater Green River Basin, Wyoming, Colorado, and Utah. This CD-ROM includes reports, data, and an ArcGIS project describing the assessment. A database was compiled that includes about 47,000 Fischer assays from 186 core holes and 240 rotary drill holes. Most of the oil yield data were analyzed by the former U.S. Bureau of Mines oil shale laboratory in Laramie, Wyoming, and some analyses were made by private laboratories. Location data for 971 Wyoming oil-shale drill holes are listed in a spreadsheet and included in the CD-ROM. Total in-place resources for the three assessed units in the Green River Formation are: (1) Tipton Shale Member, 362,816 million barrels of oil (MMBO), (2) Wilkins Peak Member, 704,991 MMBO, and (3) LaClede Bed of the Laney Member, 377,184 MMBO, for a total of 1.44 trillion barrels of oil in place. This compares with estimated in-place resources for the Piceance Basin of Colorado of 1.53 trillion barrels and estimated in-place resources for the Uinta Basin of Utah and Colorado of 1.32 trillion barrels.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Eyes Wide Open

[TailingsPond + 502]

10 hours ago, NWMan said:

The only logical explanation is that we are running out of oil and governments are using the possibility of climate change as a motivational tool to force us to look and pay for alternative energy sources over the next 50 to 100 years.

No, we are not running out of oil. We are reducing oil consumption because is it bad for health and the environment.  Climate change / CO2 is not the only reason.

Renewable energy sources also improve national security.  A few bombs can take out a couple key pipelines and refineries, crippling a nation, whereas widely deployed small-scale solar and wind is enemy proof.

[notsonice + 1,099]

5 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

The world is not even close to being depleted of oil reserves. This green debacle is truly a world order power struggle. What country has virtually no raw fossil fuels, the answer is the core issue.

 

https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/ds69DD

Oil shale resources of the Eocene Green River Formation, Greater Green River Basin, Wyoming, Colorado, and Utah

The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) recently completed a comprehensive assessment of in-place oil in oil shales in the Eocene Green River in the Greater Green River Basin, Wyoming, Colorado, and Utah. This CD-ROM includes reports, data, and an ArcGIS project describing the assessment. A database was compiled that includes about 47,000 Fischer assays from 186 core holes and 240 rotary drill holes. Most of the oil yield data were analyzed by the former U.S. Bureau of Mines oil shale laboratory in Laramie, Wyoming, and some analyses were made by private laboratories. Location data for 971 Wyoming oil-shale drill holes are listed in a spreadsheet and included in the CD-ROM. Total in-place resources for the three assessed units in the Green River Formation are: (1) Tipton Shale Member, 362,816 million barrels of oil (MMBO), (2) Wilkins Peak Member, 704,991 MMBO, and (3) LaClede Bed of the Laney Member, 377,184 MMBO, for a total of 1.44 trillion barrels of oil in place. This compares with estimated in-place resources for the Piceance Basin of Colorado of 1.53 trillion barrels and estimated in-place resources for the Uinta Basin of Utah and Colorado of 1.32 trillion barrels.

Oil  in shales in the Eocene Green River?????

yep massive amounts shale rock in the ground with oil in it

Oil shale productionfrom the Green River formation.....not happening as getting energy from renewables is so much cheaper

Oil Shale from the Green river formation.......I would not call it reserves as you do.....resources yes reserves no

to be considered a reserve it needs to be economically worthwhile to exploit ......

the document you reference is dealing with Total in-place resources NOT RESERVES

 

I take it you are not condsiderd a person who is qualified to perform 43-101 assessments

Oil Shale production from the Green river formation  today at less than $200 a barrel.....just your pipedream

If oil was at $200 a barrel ...........Green agenda what be in hyper drive

Cash for Clunkers would be the law of the land

Enjoy the transition to renewables

Edited July 9, 2023 by notsonice

[TailingsPond + 502]

5 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

 

https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/ds69DD

Oil shale resources of the Eocene Green River Formation, Greater Green River Basin, Wyoming, Colorado, and Utah

The U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) recently completed a comprehensive assessment of in-place oil in oil shales in the Eocene Green River in the Greater Green River Basin, Wyoming, Colorado, and Utah. This CD-ROM includes reports, data, and an ArcGIS project describing the assessment. A database was compiled that includes about 47,000 Fischer assays from 186 core holes and 240 rotary drill holes. Most of the oil yield data were analyzed by the former U.S. Bureau of Mines oil shale laboratory in Laramie, Wyoming, and some analyses were made by private laboratories. Location data for 971 Wyoming oil-shale drill holes are listed in a spreadsheet and included in the CD-ROM. Total in-place resources for the three assessed units in the Green River Formation are: (1) Tipton Shale Member, 362,816 million barrels of oil (MMBO), (2) Wilkins Peak Member, 704,991 MMBO, and (3) LaClede Bed of the Laney Member, 377,184 MMBO, for a total of 1.44 trillion barrels of oil in place. This compares with estimated in-place resources for the Piceance Basin of Colorado of 1.53 trillion barrels and estimated in-place resources for the Uinta Basin of Utah and Colorado of 1.32 trillion barrels.

If by "recently" you mean pre 2011 when the paper was published.

If those resources were economically viable they would have been exploited by now.

Edited July 9, 2023 by TailingsPond

[NWMan + 89]

9 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

in-place resources

In place resources are not reserves.  Reserves have to be economically viable and since there is hardly a single oil shale company that has returned a profit these are not viable reserves.  Almost all major basins including the middle east are in decline and there is no easy oil left.  The current estimate is 50 years so double it to 100 and the world is still facing a major problem.  To replace oil is such a short time scale is a big ask.

[NWMan + 89]

4 hours ago, TailingsPond said:

reducing oil consumption because is it bad for health and the environment.

We are attempting to reduce oil consumption with a series of un economic alternatives.  Currently they are all subsidised and loss making.  We are taking our profits from our petroleum world to create an alternative power source.  Possibly because it is good thing for the planet.  It is also possible that the 4% carbon we produce of the tiny amount of carbon in the atmosphere has a negligible effect and we are reducing our use of oil because we have to.  Currently 80% of the UKs energy comes from fossil fuels.  To replace that in 100 years is a big ask.  Every other power source has been available for 100s of years.